Grades v. Sonics 04/29

[kennadog]

Just wondering when the excuses for Peja stop. The guy isn't showing up in the playoffs once again, it's his own fault. I think it would do us all better to admit it and stop feeling sorry for him.

Allright, I think exaggeration either way doesn't help. Peja never shows up in the playoffs and Bibby is a playoff stud. I'm going to bring up a past playoff year, 2003, and before anybody says it, no it doesn't mean beans about this playoff series. I just don't like "never".

Peja 2003 playoff avg:

23.1 PTS
48% FG
85% FT (this surprised me)
46% 3-PT
6.9 RB
2.5 Assists

Bibby:

12.7 PTS
42% FG
79% FT
28% 3-PT
2.6 RB
5 Assists

I'd say Peja's numbers look like he "showed up" and Bibby had a pretty miserable PO, the supposed playoff stud (Bibby even said so). This isn't posted to bash Bibby or rave about Peja. But let's not talk like Peja has always sucked in the playoffs.

 

[Bartking]

Q-Dog and K-Dog...quit bringing facts up! Now grab your torches and LET'S GO GET PEJA!!!!!!

 

[kennadog]

Q-Dog and K-Dog...quit bringing facts up! Now grab your torches and LET'S GO GET PEJA!!!!!!

Sorry, it is sort of a bad habit.

 

[bozzwell]

Allright, I think exaggeration either way doesn't help. Peja never shows up in the playoffs and Bibby is a playoff stud. I'm going to bring up a past playoff year, 2003, and before anybody says it, no it doesn't mean beans about this playoff series. I just don't like "never".

Peja 2003 playoff avg:

23.1 PTS
48% FG
85% FT (this surprised me)
46% 3-PT
6.9 RB
2.5 Assists

Bibby:

12.7 PTS
42% FG
79% FT
28% 3-PT
2.6 RB
5 Assists

I'd say Peja's numbers look like he "showed up" and Bibby had a pretty miserable PO, the supposed playoff stud (Bibby even said so). This isn't posted to bash Bibby or rave about Peja. But let's not talk like Peja has always sucked in the playoffs.

I really wish you didn't do that. I can understand how you could feel that Team Dime is over the top with his comments on Pedja last few days, but we really don't need another Pedja vs. Webb neverending flame fest.

Not because there is anything wrong with arguing opinions, but it is really difficult to contrubute anything of substence when every thread is hijacked by pro et contra arguments on a single issue irrespective of what the thread is about. Not trying to censor you, just my honest opinion.

 

[kennadog]

I agree....I'd rather it stopped too. But there's been an awful lot of Peja criticism in here. I just wanted to correct a misperception that appears rampant in many of these threads. And this thread is about playoff performance..

 

[Bricklayer]

I'd say Peja's numbers look like he "showed up" and Bibby had a pretty miserable PO, the supposed playoff stud (Bibby even said so). This isn't posted to bash Bibby or rave about Peja. But let's not talk like Peja has always sucked in the playoffs.

Yes indeedy, in what is looking more and more like the proof of the blind squirrel theory. Actually the series that first led me to develop the "Peja is not a choker, he's just not as good on offense as the stoppers are on defense" theory. With Webber going down, given the opportunity to be the main man against the no-defense Dallas Mavericks...Peja was adequate. In a crazy series where everybody and their grandmother was scoring every game, Peja scored pretty well. Just another scorer in a scoring series, but at least it was the one and only season when he didn't take a giant step backward.

These are the playoff numbers over the career:

'98-99 .346 FG% 4.8pts
'99-'00 .400 FG% 8.8pts
'00-'01 .406 FG% 21.6pts
'01-'02 .376 FG% 14.8pts
'02-'03 .480 FG% 23.1pts
'03-'04 .384 FG% 17.5pts
'04-'05 .375 FG% 15.0pts

Do you realize that without that without that postseason, and more particularly that series, that Peja Stojakovic, often considered the best shooter of his generation, would be shooting less than 40% in the playoffs over his career? That is a staggering number.

 

[bozzwell]

I agree....I'd rather it stopped too. But there's been an awful lot of Peja criticism in here. I just wanted to correct a misperception that appears rampant in many of these threads. And this thread is about playoff performance..

I agree with that part, I don't agree with including Mike's stats because, whatever your intention was, it will be construed as Pedja v. Mike.

For example, I would point out to the fact that Pedja's play off dissapearances are confined to two Lakers series (in one he was injured and limited, in other he shot horribly from 3pt land despite overall OK stats) and last year series vs. Minnesota (horrible shot percentage and lower then usual scoring). When you look at the rest of his PO's his stats tell completely different story. Besides, with Pedja it was never about numbers (you could make same argument about many other players) but about the final outcome.

 

[kennadog]

Well if someone thinks I meant it as Peja vs Bibby, they'd be wrong. I love Bibby. His is the only jersey I own. Neither did I say Peja was a great playoff performer. I'm just not in favor of terms like never or always.

 

[bozzwell]

Well if someone thinks I meant it as Peja vs Bibby, they'd be wrong. I love Bibby. His is the only jersey I own. Neither did I say Peja was a great playoff performer. I'm just not in favor of terms like never or always.

Thanks for clarifying that. Props for selecting Bibby jersey.

 

[VF21]

Semantics aside, I think Bricklayer has shown that OVERALL and FOR THE MOST PART Peja's performance in the playoffs has not been what one would have expected of one of the league's proclaimed "pure shooters."

For the record, the 2002-03 playoffs could just be the exception that proves the rule. (Don't ask me what that means - I just know my logic teacher used to say it all the time.)

 

[PixelPusher]

'98-99 .346 FG% 4.8pts
'99-'00 .400 FG% 8.8pts
'00-'01 .406 FG% 21.6pts
'01-'02 .376 FG% 14.8pts
'02-'03 .480 FG% 23.1pts
'03-'04 .384 FG% 17.5pts
'04-'05 .375 FG% 15.0pts

Too bad Peja isn't a Baseball player, those would be Hall of Fame batting averages

 

[bozzwell]

Yes indeedy, in what is looking more and more like the proof of the blind squirrel theory. Actually the series that first led me to develop the "Peja is not a choker, he's just not as good on offense as the stoppers are on defense" theory. With Webber going down, given the opportunity to be the main man against the no-defense Dallas Mavericks...Peja was adequate. In a crazy series where everybody and their grandmother was scoring every game, Peja scored pretty well. Just another scorer in a scoring series, but at least it was the one and only season when he didn't take a giant step backward.

These are the playoff numbers over the career:

'98-99 .346 FG% 4.8pts
'99-'00 .400 FG% 8.8pts
'00-'01 .406 FG% 21.6pts
'01-'02 .376 FG% 14.8pts
'02-'03 .480 FG% 23.1pts
'03-'04 .384 FG% 17.5pts
'04-'05 .375 FG% 15.0pts

Do you realize that without that without that postseason, and more particularly that series, that Peja Stojakovic, often considered the best shooter of his generation, would be shooting less than 40% in the playoffs over his career? That is a staggering number.

I see we're working off of the same spreadsheet. I have some interesting interprations of the data (purely baseball inspired statistical analysis) but I am saving that for another day.

 

[teamdimechampionship]

Too bad Peja isn't a Baseball player, those would be Hall of Fame batting averages

That's awesome....I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Venom]

Are you seriously suggesting that a 6'10" forward should be able to keep a point guard from blowing by him? The reason Peja is playing Lewis is because ::drum roll: they play the same position! And if Peja were to play Allen, I guarantee he'd make a better showing against him than Mobley would do against Lewis.
BTW, if you hadn't noticed, Brad Miller and Brian Skinner have been getting crushed inside by 7'1" 300-lb. James so of course Peja would get crushed as well.



Not really worth responding to, but in case you forgot, Lewis is a guy who has scored 50 in a game, he's a current All-Star, and Seattle's #2 option on offense.

Some of this is getting as ridiculous as the Webber-hating was.
~~

What's the point of the above post? You reiterate that Peja is guarding the only guy he is capable of guarding, meaning he is not a versatile, "shut down" defender. And then some vague attempt to prop up Lewis. Um, Reggie Evans and Danny Fortson would also crush Peja inside, not just Jerome James. I meant EVERY Seattle big man when I said that he could not slide into the post. Shoot, even Collison might do something. No, I can't back that up.

 

[kingsgurl10]

Hey i went to that game and it was GREAT! we had box seats in suit Q. Bibby was my babby that night and that was THE BEST graduation present EVER!!!!!!!

 

[burekijogurt]

'98-99 .346 FG% 4.8pts
'99-'00 .400 FG% 8.8pts
'00-'01 .406 FG% 21.6pts
'01-'02 .376 FG% 14.8pts
'02-'03 .480 FG% 23.1pts
'03-'04 .384 FG% 17.5pts
'04-'05 .375 FG% 15.0pts

Do you realize that without that without that postseason, and more particularly that series, that Peja Stojakovic, often considered the best shooter of his generation, would be shooting less than 40% in the playoffs over his career? That is a staggering number.

Didn't Peja shoot 47% these playoffs for 22pts a game or is ESPN wrong?

 

[uolj]

Didn't Peja shoot 47% these playoffs for 22pts a game or is ESPN wrong?

This is an old thread from after game 3. His last two games bumped up his numbers.