George Hill is mad. (Twitter)
- Thread starter SLAB
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This year isn't about winning so putting points up at all times is not a priority, the priority should be seeing what we have in Buddy,Skal,WCS,Fox,Bogdan by giving them all of the shots that ZBO is taking. If the goal was the playoffs then you absolutely give ZBO those shots and design a playstyle that fits him because he is better than those guys at this point.
George Hill will be fine somewhere where he doesn't have to be the second best player. His contract is terrible and another misstep by Vlade.
George Hill will be fine somewhere where he doesn't have to be the second best player. His contract is terrible and another misstep by Vlade.
@mr_jasonjones: George Hill said his tweet on Saturday was about frustration with the loss and some personal situations back home.… https://t.co/aSCWvl74Nb
So, basically Kayte asks him to explain and he says (in short):
"Well, as a competitor sometimes you just get mad at yourself and how you're playing... "
I quit listening at that point. Whether anything else is going on or not, Hill is smart enough to know when to take the "I was just angry with myself" line.
Hill has been nothing but problematic since he's been here. He misses games for personal reasons. He shows up for games and yet his head is obviously somewhere else. The George Hill I've seen thus far certainly isn't the George Hill any of us (and I'm positive Vlade is included in this) planned on seeing in a Kings uniform.
"Well, as a competitor sometimes you just get mad at yourself and how you're playing... "
I quit listening at that point. Whether anything else is going on or not, Hill is smart enough to know when to take the "I was just angry with myself" line.
Hill has been nothing but problematic since he's been here. He misses games for personal reasons. He shows up for games and yet his head is obviously somewhere else. The George Hill I've seen thus far certainly isn't the George Hill any of us (and I'm positive Vlade is included in this) planned on seeing in a Kings uniform.
Just to play devil's advocate to a degree, I dug this up. If you can sit through hearing AV be cringy it is worth revisiting this video. After the 6 minute mark I believe is when Hill states he chose the Kings over other teams because we were going to try to win and not tank.
Again, he is not earning his $20m, but it gives something else to think about.
Again, he is not earning his $20m, but it gives something else to think about.
Ony a fool would be satisfied with Hill's play through the first quarter of the season. But you know what? It's the first quarter of the season!
You wanna hate on him? Go ahead. Make yourself feel better. But I have to say that I really get tired of the pitchfork mentality around here. It just ruins the basketball discussion. It seems like there's so much deep-seated frustration from rooting for a losing team (for so long) that many of us are way too quick to turn on one of our own. It's dark stuff, my friends. And it shouldn't make you feel better to think Hey, we're not nearly as bad as the fans in Philly! That's like saying What we did isn't nearly as bad as what Harvey Weinstein did. It's a pathology.
You wanna hate on him? Go ahead. Make yourself feel better. But I have to say that I really get tired of the pitchfork mentality around here. It just ruins the basketball discussion. It seems like there's so much deep-seated frustration from rooting for a losing team (for so long) that many of us are way too quick to turn on one of our own. It's dark stuff, my friends. And it shouldn't make you feel better to think Hey, we're not nearly as bad as the fans in Philly! That's like saying What we did isn't nearly as bad as what Harvey Weinstein did. It's a pathology.
I'm too lazy to look at my old posts, but I seem to recall being fairly stunned at the payday the Kings gave for Hill and that's on Vlade and co. Hill always struck me as a 2nd tier type of complementary player.....anyway. Although some don't hide their great love for Randolph, he is at least playing I think how many expected him, lately even better. And Randolph is also playing closer to his $12 million price tag.
Collison is making 10 per. He'd of stayed here after the taxes and a perk maybe at what 12.5?
What's the most frustrating to me is instead of getting a budget pg veteran, hell even someone on the cheap like Lawson maybe, we could of taken on some salary for future perks or a prospect to be included type of thing and waived the excess like Philly used to do.
And thank goodness for Randolph, boy there are times we just can't score at all without him, would just be really ugly.
What's the most frustrating to me is instead of getting a budget pg veteran, hell even someone on the cheap like Lawson maybe, we could of taken on some salary for future perks or a prospect to be included type of thing and waived the excess like Philly used to do.
And thank goodness for Randolph, boy there are times we just can't score at all without him, would just be really ugly.
I understood not resigning Lawson. He represents a lot of risk, especially for a young team that needs a veteran leader at PG. He'd come cheap because of that, but that obviously wasn't the goal.
But Collison should have been signed for two years at a little higher than what Indy gave him. Maybe even a 2 year $30 million deal where the second year was a team option to give flexibility.
I think Vlade & co thought Hill would be a veteran mentor and then possibly a trade chip if the rookies played well early on. But right now he's not really looking like either.
But Collison should have been signed for two years at a little higher than what Indy gave him. Maybe even a 2 year $30 million deal where the second year was a team option to give flexibility.
I think Vlade & co thought Hill would be a veteran mentor and then possibly a trade chip if the rookies played well early on. But right now he's not really looking like either.
I think the sentiment is that we might as well have somebody who is playing OK for less money than have somebody who is playing poorly for more money. The distribution of playing time for rookies is a completely separate question here. If we wanted to give the rookies a lot more playing time, we could have signed a bottom-of-the-barrel veteran PG for cheap or even no veteran PG at all for free. We intended to bring the rookies along slowly, and whether that's with Collison or Hill or another option is somewhat arbitrary. Obviously we thought Hill was the better option despite the higher cost, but that decision may have erroneous.
As someone who supported the signing of the vets, I'll concede that the moves are looking bad.
In my defense, I'll say that my first preference was to rent our cap space for assets. Given that we failed to do it (I'm assuming, rather hoping, that Vlade tried it, but have no idea), I thought it was the next best move, since the kids need mentors. I didn't even mind the little overpay (particularly given our situation), as I was hoping for a better player and mentor, and the last year has a very low buyout. I thought he would be traded by next year's deadline, by which time, he would have helped Fox and Mason.
While I don't care about the wins this season, I think it's important for the team to be competitive in most games, and for the team to win at least some. Losing consistently tends to take a toll, develops bad habits, and retards development of kids. So, having vets who could still play was important in my book. The hope though was that the vets will buy into the idea that they will get their minutes, but they have to mentor the kids too, and not feed their ego, or live on past glories.
We don't seem to be getting much of the good, and a lot of the bad. I don't entirely blame Vlade. True, that ultimately he is responsible, but we don't know how much the ownership, market, new arena challenges, etc. guided his actions. Plus, apart from some bad moves in the beginning, his picks and draft day moves have largely been good. Moreover, apart from these large contracts to vets (which fortunately do not impact our long term moves at least), we are in decent financial shape.
This needs a fix though. The core of the future has to come from this group. We have one first round pick in the next two years. Even if we assume that we'll hit a home run, and get a future star, you need three excellent players, and a good supporting cast in the current NBA to be relevant. We need at least two folks from the current group (or at least one and several consistently good contributing players) to have a shot at anything meaningful. There is some potential, but that needs to be polished. Hopefully Dave and Vlade know what they are doing, and can fix it, but having whiny vets, loudly complaining, even while making tons of money, is not a good portent.
In my defense, I'll say that my first preference was to rent our cap space for assets. Given that we failed to do it (I'm assuming, rather hoping, that Vlade tried it, but have no idea), I thought it was the next best move, since the kids need mentors. I didn't even mind the little overpay (particularly given our situation), as I was hoping for a better player and mentor, and the last year has a very low buyout. I thought he would be traded by next year's deadline, by which time, he would have helped Fox and Mason.
While I don't care about the wins this season, I think it's important for the team to be competitive in most games, and for the team to win at least some. Losing consistently tends to take a toll, develops bad habits, and retards development of kids. So, having vets who could still play was important in my book. The hope though was that the vets will buy into the idea that they will get their minutes, but they have to mentor the kids too, and not feed their ego, or live on past glories.
We don't seem to be getting much of the good, and a lot of the bad. I don't entirely blame Vlade. True, that ultimately he is responsible, but we don't know how much the ownership, market, new arena challenges, etc. guided his actions. Plus, apart from some bad moves in the beginning, his picks and draft day moves have largely been good. Moreover, apart from these large contracts to vets (which fortunately do not impact our long term moves at least), we are in decent financial shape.
This needs a fix though. The core of the future has to come from this group. We have one first round pick in the next two years. Even if we assume that we'll hit a home run, and get a future star, you need three excellent players, and a good supporting cast in the current NBA to be relevant. We need at least two folks from the current group (or at least one and several consistently good contributing players) to have a shot at anything meaningful. There is some potential, but that needs to be polished. Hopefully Dave and Vlade know what they are doing, and can fix it, but having whiny vets, loudly complaining, even while making tons of money, is not a good portent.
Very well put,
IMO this has all of the makings of a dumpster fire and lately more and more evidence has been popping up to support that theory.
First, the cap space should have been rented out and this should have been a full on rebuild. IF you sign the vets you do not give them anything beyond this year and make it crystal clear that the kids get first priority, which it looks like Vlade failed to do.
As crazy as it sounds I think Vlade may have had delusions to make a push for the playoffs since he did make a two year promise after the Cuz deal that we would be better than a boarderline playoff team. He wants to keep his job and trusting kids to be playoff ready in two years is unrealistic.
It pains me to have to go thru this sort of half-butt rebuild only for it to amount to nothing again, those of around long enough have seen it fail time and time again. THIS was the moment for a clean slate, for a patient full on rebuild but we may have messed it up big time. On the court our style is a headscratcher and off the court our Vets are pouting plus we have a very mismatched roster for todays NBA. We have zero competent or developing wings on our roster.....How does that happen??
Vlade has made zero brilliant moves and now has botched multiple drafts and free agent signings, How much better has he been than PDA or late years Petrie? If it wernt for the great memories and emotional attachment many more would be calling for a real GM to step in and he be fired.
IMO this has all of the makings of a dumpster fire and lately more and more evidence has been popping up to support that theory.
First, the cap space should have been rented out and this should have been a full on rebuild. IF you sign the vets you do not give them anything beyond this year and make it crystal clear that the kids get first priority, which it looks like Vlade failed to do.
As crazy as it sounds I think Vlade may have had delusions to make a push for the playoffs since he did make a two year promise after the Cuz deal that we would be better than a boarderline playoff team. He wants to keep his job and trusting kids to be playoff ready in two years is unrealistic.
It pains me to have to go thru this sort of half-butt rebuild only for it to amount to nothing again, those of around long enough have seen it fail time and time again. THIS was the moment for a clean slate, for a patient full on rebuild but we may have messed it up big time. On the court our style is a headscratcher and off the court our Vets are pouting plus we have a very mismatched roster for todays NBA. We have zero competent or developing wings on our roster.....How does that happen??
Vlade has made zero brilliant moves and now has botched multiple drafts and free agent signings, How much better has he been than PDA or late years Petrie? If it wernt for the great memories and emotional attachment many more would be calling for a real GM to step in and he be fired.
This is the sort of negative post that I find is not based on any facts. There is nothing but negative conjecture based on maybe this and maybe that.
You are lumping in a decade of bad moves and trying to put it on this current Kings team = false.
You are saying this is not a full on rebuild = false.
You describe Coach Joergers handling of the young fellas as a head scratcher = Obviously he rewards good play and does not just put all the Rookies out there to get crushed.
No one has uttered the P word in Kings management including Vlade = false
You want to say everything has gone wrong less than 20 games into the rebuild. = false
Lets take your comment: "First, the cap space should have been rented out and this should have been a full on rebuild." What does that mean to you? If you were the GM what would you have done differently?
You are lumping in a decade of bad moves and trying to put it on this current Kings team = false.
You are saying this is not a full on rebuild = false.
You describe Coach Joergers handling of the young fellas as a head scratcher = Obviously he rewards good play and does not just put all the Rookies out there to get crushed.
No one has uttered the P word in Kings management including Vlade = false
You want to say everything has gone wrong less than 20 games into the rebuild. = false
Lets take your comment: "First, the cap space should have been rented out and this should have been a full on rebuild." What does that mean to you? If you were the GM what would you have done differently?
Did you miss the very first line in my post? IMO= In my opinion. Opinions are pretty common on a forum.
I specifically pointed out terrible moves DURING the Vlade tenure, I dont need to go further back than that he has made enough bad moves......and said Ive seen this type of bad situation before and IMO it has all the makings of a dumpster fire.
A full on rebuild in my opinion does not commit the cap space in future years to washed up players and gives those players most of the shots, a system made for them. A full rebuild is about assets accumulation first, a faster system for young players, all out tanking to get your 2-3 cornerstones and big minutes and shots for your young guys. You may have a different opinion on this but I'm just going based on what I have seen other teams do. Any wins where the young guys sit and ZBO pulls out for us is basically a loss for us at this point.
Again where did I say anyone management said playoffs? I said I THINK Management may have had thoughts about the playoffs and I laid out my case, you are free to agree or disagree.
Alot has gone wrong IN MY OPINION = True.
Cap space being rented out means taking on useless veteran contracts in exchange for picks, like the Nets took Mozgov but got Deangelo out of it, Like how the Jazz took Richard Jefferson contract during there rebuild for some picks. Do some research its pretty common for bottom dwellers to do. And yes I would have hounded anyone who wanted to dump money if I were GM and worst case I still would not have committed big money to ZBO and Hill/VC.
"You describe Coach Joergers handling of the young fellas as a head scratcher = Obviously he rewards good play and does not just put all the Rookies out there to get crushed."
He rewards guys? Like sending JJ to the D league after his best game? Like starting G. Hill after countless terrible games? In my opinion he has a fear of blacklash from the older guys so he feels the need to play them over the kids.
Oh and I have said all of this around here before and in much better detail so If you want to dissect my posts (which you are welcome too its a forum after all
) at least keep up with what I have been saying.
I specifically pointed out terrible moves DURING the Vlade tenure, I dont need to go further back than that he has made enough bad moves......and said Ive seen this type of bad situation before and IMO it has all the makings of a dumpster fire.
A full on rebuild in my opinion does not commit the cap space in future years to washed up players and gives those players most of the shots, a system made for them. A full rebuild is about assets accumulation first, a faster system for young players, all out tanking to get your 2-3 cornerstones and big minutes and shots for your young guys. You may have a different opinion on this but I'm just going based on what I have seen other teams do. Any wins where the young guys sit and ZBO pulls out for us is basically a loss for us at this point.
Again where did I say anyone management said playoffs? I said I THINK Management may have had thoughts about the playoffs and I laid out my case, you are free to agree or disagree.
Alot has gone wrong IN MY OPINION = True.
Cap space being rented out means taking on useless veteran contracts in exchange for picks, like the Nets took Mozgov but got Deangelo out of it, Like how the Jazz took Richard Jefferson contract during there rebuild for some picks. Do some research its pretty common for bottom dwellers to do. And yes I would have hounded anyone who wanted to dump money if I were GM and worst case I still would not have committed big money to ZBO and Hill/VC.
"You describe Coach Joergers handling of the young fellas as a head scratcher = Obviously he rewards good play and does not just put all the Rookies out there to get crushed."
He rewards guys? Like sending JJ to the D league after his best game? Like starting G. Hill after countless terrible games? In my opinion he has a fear of blacklash from the older guys so he feels the need to play them over the kids.
Oh and I have said all of this around here before and in much better detail so If you want to dissect my posts (which you are welcome too its a forum after all
) at least keep up with what I have been saying.