George Hill is mad. (Twitter)

#91
even if you block/mute somebody, you still sort of can't help but peek in to see what they said - especially if somebody has replied/countered. a puzzle.

I hate the Dodgers, Yankees, Broncos, Cowboys, Clippers and Lakers. I would not join their forums to attack, gloat, and/or pee on their mistakes. I just let their fans have their forums.

But here it is weird - this board is a magnet for disgruntled people who by every appearance, hate Vivek, hate Vlade, hate Joerger. Love the name on the front of the jersey, I have no doubt they do in their minds ... but hate all the key personnel involved with it (except Skal I guess). I don't get it.

The very idea that Vlade, given what he took over, has in some way blown it or let down the fan base is mind-boggling to me, after all the post-Adelman year of sputtering the team is finally on to something. Reasonable people can disagree on whether all his moves were optimal or not... but damn there is so much Monday Morning QB'ing against Vlade I can't believe it.

But go ahead: rag on em when they lose close games. rag on em when they lose blowouts. rag on em when they win the wrong way. rag on em for sending rooks to D-league to get minutes. rag on em for FA signings that don't work out, and for those that work out too well and take minutes from rooks. rag rag rag rag rag... knock yourselves out.
 
#92
even if you block/mute somebody, you still sort of can't help but peek in to see what they said - especially if somebody has replied/countered. a puzzle.

I hate the Dodgers, Yankees, Broncos, Cowboys, Clippers and Lakers. I would not join their forums to attack, gloat, and/or pee on their mistakes. I just let their fans have their forums.

But here it is weird - this board is a magnet for disgruntled people who by every appearance, hate Vivek, hate Vlade, hate Joerger. Love the name on the front of the jersey, I have no doubt they do in their minds ... but hate all the key personnel involved with it (except Skal I guess). I don't get it.

The very idea that Vlade, given what he took over, has in some way blown it or let down the fan base is mind-boggling to me, after all the post-Adelman year of sputtering the team is finally on to something. Reasonable people can disagree on whether all his moves were optimal or not... but damn there is so much Monday Morning QB'ing against Vlade I can't believe it.

But go ahead: rag on em when they lose close games. rag on em when they lose blowouts. rag on em when they win the wrong way. rag on em for sending rooks to D-league to get minutes. rag on em for FA signings that don't work out, and for those that work out too well and take minutes from rooks. rag rag rag rag rag... knock yourselves out.
I feel the same. I suspect it’s because we’ve had a bad team for so long that many of us are too easily ready to throw out the baby with the proverbial bathwater.
 
#93
I guarantee you fans would be a lot upset if our young guys produced a lot more on the floor. Fox was advertised and marketed as the Kings' savior. He's been averaging a little over 10pts 4asts 3rebs on below average efficiency. Skal was heavily pumped up by Grant and other media personnel, but he's done nothing except demote himself back to the Gleague.

When you take a step back and look at our roster, you realize that it's not entirely ideal anymore. We're missing a center piece. Most of the "young" guys who are producing are old for a rebuild 24/24/25.

Kings are in a forced standing position to rebuild, but I can't say they've fully started to. Hill just being another example. Guy has not earned his PT or money, but he's still a starter on a rebuilding team.
 
#94
I guarantee you fans would be a lot upset if our young guys produced a lot more on the floor. Fox was advertised and marketed as the Kings' savior. He's been averaging a little over 10pts 4asts 3rebs on below average efficiency. Skal was heavily pumped up by Grant and other media personnel, but he's done nothing except demote himself back to the Gleague.

When you take a step back and look at our roster, you realize that it's not entirely ideal anymore. We're missing a center piece. Most of the "young" guys who are producing are old for a rebuild 24/24/25.

Kings are in a forced standing position to rebuild, but I can't say they've fully started to. Hill just being another example. Guy has not earned his PT or money, but he's still a starter on a rebuilding team.
I'm hoping we can get a late 2019 pick for Hill from some good team after Dec 15. But for sure, something isn't right with Hill. Maybe a move that won't work out but they don't always work out.

Fox is a child. A skinny child. I think he will be all right.
 
#95
I’m willing to give George Hill the benefit of the doubt here. Plus, this guy is a complementary player regardless of his check. I’m not surprised he looks worse this year on a team where he is new and has no real offensive threats other than Randolph and sometimes Buddy Hield. I’d still rather have Hill over Collison if money weren’t part of that equation, but it is so I’m left scratching my head like everyone else.

I’m also surprised to see in that old video that Hill said that the King’s told him they are trying to win. But I definitely jumped to the conclusion that the Kings really need a good draft pick next year so I guess I’m wrong and that’s why Zbo is beasting for us.
 
#96
even if you block/mute somebody, you still sort of can't help but peek in to see what they said - especially if somebody has replied/countered. a puzzle.

I hate the Dodgers, Yankees, Broncos, Cowboys, Clippers and Lakers. I would not join their forums to attack, gloat, and/or pee on their mistakes. I just let their fans have their forums.

But here it is weird - this board is a magnet for disgruntled people who by every appearance, hate Vivek, hate Vlade, hate Joerger. Love the name on the front of the jersey, I have no doubt they do in their minds ... but hate all the key personnel involved with it (except Skal I guess). I don't get it.

The very idea that Vlade, given what he took over, has in some way blown it or let down the fan base is mind-boggling to me, after all the post-Adelman year of sputtering the team is finally on to something. Reasonable people can disagree on whether all his moves were optimal or not... but damn there is so much Monday Morning QB'ing against Vlade I can't believe it.

But go ahead: rag on em when they lose close games. rag on em when they lose blowouts. rag on em when they win the wrong way. rag on em for sending rooks to D-league to get minutes. rag on em for FA signings that don't work out, and for those that work out too well and take minutes from rooks. rag rag rag rag rag... knock yourselves out.
Maybe, but I think the other side is equally true. People are ready to give a very long rope, and refuse to accept the mistakes that have been made.

I'm actually hopeful for our future based on the current group, and think that Vlade has done a decent job overall. Of course, the optimism is based on the hope that at least couple of kids will grow into stars, and many into useful rotation players. I'm not even mad at spending money on vets. We not only had money to spend, but had to spend money to meet the minimum.

The trouble is that we should have rented our space. Perhaps it was tried, but we didn't get any decent offers. If so, the criticism is invalid, which is why I have refrained from doing so. Yet, if it was never explored, I think it was a mistake.

As for the signing of vets, I've all along supported it. However, if the vets were not told clearly that this year (and next) is about development of kids, and their main role is to act as solid mentors, then it was a mistake. In such a scenario, there is no reason for Hill to whine and complain. If there is a lack of effort on the part of the kids, or an attitude issue, I can understand his frustration. If he is complaining about lack of minutes/winning, he either didn't get the message, or was never given one by Vlade/Dave.

As for getting something for him, with his current contract and performance, he's virtually untradeable. The best we can hope for is the 2019 trade deadline, where a vet team can pick him for half a season, and then use the low buyout to buy him out. Even then, matching that salary won't be easy. Vet teams who are hoping to use a guy like Hill, often don't have a lot to give. They might have some mid level prospect/draft pick that might interest us, but nothing great. And again, young players don't make that kind of money. So, we'll probably be adding some vet ourselves (hopefully on an expiring), to get that minor value.

The best case scenario might be where some disgruntled star demands a change, thinks our roster has promise, and accepts to come. We can then use Hill, and some of our lower value prospects to get him. Too far out, and too many imponderables for a meaningful conjecture at this stage. Moreover, that's a different discussion than the issue of giving him that contract, and letting him believe that the aim is to win under his leadership.
 
#98
I guarantee you fans would be a lot upset if our young guys produced a lot more on the floor. Fox was advertised and marketed as the Kings' savior. He's been averaging a little over 10pts 4asts 3rebs on below average efficiency. Skal was heavily pumped up by Grant and other media personnel, but he's done nothing except demote himself back to the Gleague.

When you take a step back and look at our roster, you realize that it's not entirely ideal anymore. We're missing a center piece. Most of the "young" guys who are producing are old for a rebuild 24/24/25.

Kings are in a forced standing position to rebuild, but I can't say they've fully started to. Hill just being another example. Guy has not earned his PT or money, but he's still a starter on a rebuilding team.

And putting players in just about the worst position to see if they can break out into being one. I think the data is well in on the veterans already so the only shot the Kings have is whatever is uncovered in the youth they have on the team. Things do not exist in a bubble or on a complete incline. Center piece players are utilized in a certain way first and foremost. Take 99% of the "center pieces" in the NBA and use them this way and you will end up with the same conclusion many are bringing up on this board. The Kings may not have a centerpiece, then again they may, they need to go all in to make sure because then it will dictate the moves you make from there on. They are wasting valuable time here because they need to define who many of these players are now and who they think they might become. The more shots, the more minutes, the more experience against the highest level competition the better.
 
#99
Did you miss the very first line in my post? IMO= In my opinion. Opinions are pretty common on a forum.

I specifically pointed out terrible moves DURING the Vlade tenure, I dont need to go further back than that he has made enough bad moves......and said Ive seen this type of bad situation before and IMO it has all the makings of a dumpster fire.

A full on rebuild in my opinion does not commit the cap space in future years to washed up players and gives those players most of the shots, a system made for them. A full rebuild is about assets accumulation first, a faster system for young players, all out tanking to get your 2-3 cornerstones and big minutes and shots for your young guys. You may have a different opinion on this but I'm just going based on what I have seen other teams do. Any wins where the young guys sit and ZBO pulls out for us is basically a loss for us at this point.

Again where did I say anyone management said playoffs? I said I THINK Management may have had thoughts about the playoffs and I laid out my case, you are free to agree or disagree.

Alot has gone wrong IN MY OPINION = True.

Cap space being rented out means taking on useless veteran contracts in exchange for picks, like the Nets took Mozgov but got Deangelo out of it, Like how the Jazz took Richard Jefferson contract during there rebuild for some picks. Do some research its pretty common for bottom dwellers to do. And yes I would have hounded anyone who wanted to dump money if I were GM and worst case I still would not have committed big money to ZBO and Hill/VC.

"You describe Coach Joergers handling of the young fellas as a head scratcher = Obviously he rewards good play and does not just put all the Rookies out there to get crushed."

He rewards guys? Like sending JJ to the D league after his best game? Like starting G. Hill after countless terrible games? In my opinion he has a fear of blacklash from the older guys so he feels the need to play them over the kids.

Oh and I have said all of this around here before and in much better detail so If you want to dissect my posts (which you are welcome too its a forum after all :)) at least keep up with what I have been saying.
It's good to know everything you say is just your opinion:) thanks for verifying that.
 
even if you block/mute somebody, you still sort of can't help but peek in to see what they said - especially if somebody has replied/countered. a puzzle.

I hate the Dodgers, Yankees, Broncos, Cowboys, Clippers and Lakers. I would not join their forums to attack, gloat, and/or pee on their mistakes. I just let their fans have their forums.

But here it is weird - this board is a magnet for disgruntled people who by every appearance, hate Vivek, hate Vlade, hate Joerger. Love the name on the front of the jersey, I have no doubt they do in their minds ... but hate all the key personnel involved with it (except Skal I guess). I don't get it.

The very idea that Vlade, given what he took over, has in some way blown it or let down the fan base is mind-boggling to me, after all the post-Adelman year of sputtering the team is finally on to something. Reasonable people can disagree on whether all his moves were optimal or not... but damn there is so much Monday Morning QB'ing against Vlade I can't believe it.

But go ahead: rag on em when they lose close games. rag on em when they lose blowouts. rag on em when they win the wrong way. rag on em for sending rooks to D-league to get minutes. rag on em for FA signings that don't work out, and for those that work out too well and take minutes from rooks. rag rag rag rag rag... knock yourselves out.
I like all our young guys except Papa, and like Temple and Carter (when he's playing his actual position). I love Vlade's draft choices and trades, hate his non-draft day trades (excuse me, TRADE) and free agencies. I loved what Joerger could've done with a Cousins team and don't like how he's been handling a rebuild. Vivek... yeah, I got nothing. He's kinda thrown away all good will with me. You can make such a specific generalization if you want, but we're all different.

But beyond that, seriously? This place is nothing compared to Sactownroyalty when it comes to negativity. This is by far the most optimistic and happy board I've been on with this fanbase. Even the Kings' subreddit is way harsher than this board.
 
This is BULLSIT. Seriously. 1/4 of the way in to a rebuild and we got people acting like we are the Lakers in constant WIN NOW mode. Newsflash, small market team trying to build the small market way. Exhibit A:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ingrabr01.html

Brandon Ingrams rough rookie campaign. In year 2 he looks like he is on his way to being as advertised.

Exhibit B:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01/gamelog/2010/

Steph Currys rookie season per game.

Steph was Frank Masons age and not even as efficient as Mase. Pretty much on the same trajectory as Foxy albeit more efficient (again, 3 years older and came in known as a shooter/scorer).

Have some freaking patience. America nor Rome was built in a day or even 22 games.
 
I like all our young guys except Papa, and like Temple and Carter (when he's playing his actual position). I love Vlade's draft choices and trades, hate his non-draft day trades (excuse me, TRADE) and free agencies. I loved what Joerger could've done with a Cousins team and don't like how he's been handling a rebuild. Vivek... yeah, I got nothing. He's kinda thrown away all good will with me. You can make such a specific generalization if you want, but we're all different.

But beyond that, seriously? This place is nothing compared to Sactownroyalty when it comes to negativity. This is by far the most optimistic and happy board I've been on with this fanbase. Even the Kings' subreddit is way harsher than this board.
Until recently, the team has dictated negativity. The play was non competitive with veterans/young players not giving a lifeline to support so to speak. Fortunately the teams play has shown more recently for the ardent fanbase
 
I like all our young guys except Papa, and like Temple and Carter (when he's playing his actual position). I love Vlade's draft choices and trades, hate his non-draft day trades (excuse me, TRADE) and free agencies. I loved what Joerger could've done with a Cousins team and don't like how he's been handling a rebuild. Vivek... yeah, I got nothing. He's kinda thrown away all good will with me. You can make such a specific generalization if you want, but we're all different.

But beyond that, seriously? This place is nothing compared to Sactownroyalty when it comes to negativity. This is by far the most optimistic and happy board I've been on with this fanbase. Even the Kings' subreddit is way harsher than this board.
It's the natural selection process at work. The more pessimistic types don't tend to survive very long.
 
I guarantee you fans would be a lot upset if our young guys produced a lot more on the floor. Fox was advertised and marketed as the Kings' savior. He's been averaging a little over 10pts 4asts 3rebs on below average efficiency. Skal was heavily pumped up by Grant and other media personnel, but he's done nothing except demote himself back to the Gleague.

When you take a step back and look at our roster, you realize that it's not entirely ideal anymore. We're missing a center piece. Most of the "young" guys who are producing are old for a rebuild 24/24/25.

Kings are in a forced standing position to rebuild, but I can't say they've fully started to. Hill just being another example. Guy has not earned his PT or money, but he's still a starter on a rebuilding team.
Agree. That's why I wouldn't be hesitant to attach Hield, Bogdanovic, Cauley-Stein, etc. to a pick to give us a shot at drafting a young stud. A plethora of mediocre to good, semi-young pieces is not going to put us on the map.
 
Well that's irritating to read. For one, how could these guys really think that they were going to compete for the playoffs with this roster? And two, why aren't these front office guys on the same page?

It's why I don't like it when people call each other keyboard or armchair coaches. There is ineptitude everywhere, no matter how much people make. If the report is correct, that means Perry and Hill have absolutely no clue what a winning basketball roster should look like. It means that the Kings had originally attempted to keep on keeping on with the exact same operating procedure they had with Cousins here, except with a much lower talent level. It means that 90% of us fans had a deeper understanding of what the meaning of this season was over the guys in the front office making millions. As mind boggling as it is, it doesn't surprise me the least bit.
 
Hmm well it looks like there was at least some validity to my playoffs delusion theory. There was no way Zbo G. Hill and Co. would already be pouting or not allowing the youngins to take a bigger role by sacrificing there own minutes and shots if they were truely here to mentor.

I know they are putting the blame on Scott Perry now that he is gone (typical Sac) but how scary is it that Vlade/Vivek/Joerger actually thought the playoffs were feasible with this roster in the west? These are our main decision makers and talent evaluators.... Yikes.

Did Vlade and co think that tanking would not even be a remote possibility? So far as to not even bring it up with the new free agents?

Day by day this thing is looking more and more messy, it seems like for years now the Kings just cannot make the correct and obvious decisions to save their life. With no pick in 2019 and no franchise player this is the time to stock pile young kids and see who sticks (because not everyone will not stick) and hope that we land 1 to 2 cornerstones to build around. This was the time to finally make moves strictly for the future and not worry about wins .....except we did the opposite and even considered the playoffs as a possiblity.

So we let ZBO and the others play while our first rounders are in Reno. Zbo and co rack up a few extra meaningless wins, we land the 6th pick who again flames out or is a solid role player like WCS,Stauskas, Ben Mac etc and we stay on this treadmill for another decade. Absolutely mind-boggling, Im starting to understand why the old timers do not spend the time to write-up long thoughtful posts anymore.....whats the use when the FO cant even get the easy decisions right?!

Instead we add expensive vets to suck up reps from the young guys and create fits in the locker room. How Vlade continues to get a pass is beyond me this is getting past PDA levels of incompentency.

Vlade might just still be a yes man to Vivek, (he is a novice after all) and a much better PR shield than PDA was, Vivek may still be involved on the basketball side. Signs of the ineptitude are starting to show again. It looks like it will be a long while before Vivek truely gives up control to a stong minded and experienced GM. SMH life of a kings fan.
 
Hills a scrub that needs to not play another minute here, and thankfully this article will spur that on

The funny thing is, if Hill wasn’t a scrub and played to expectations, we might be fighting for the 8th

Dude needs to be removed, and I’m not picky on the return
 
And the fact that this article coincides with his personal reasons for being out makes him an unprofessional d bag, most likely (which in my books he already was)
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
I cannot believe that George Hill is stupid enough to think this team had any remote shot at the playoffs.

He's smarter than that, right?
He may be a mixture of both stupid & delusional. He seems mentally weak so Vlade and co. must of really sold this team having a chance at the postseason considering that teams with 5 rookies, couple of sophomores and a vet or two make the postseason with minimal preseason games, training camp & chemistry.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
That article had NO direct sourcing, no real quotes and is outdated to boot.

Some guy from the Salt Lake Tribute says there was a promise made and George Hill isn't happy and cites "multiple sources"?

George Hill is not an idiot, not are the other vets. If they thought the Kings were going to be legitimate playoff contenders and came here solely for that, they're too dumb to be allowed out by themselves.

It has been reported elsewhere that there are personal family issues George Hill is trying to deal with. I personally think we owe him at least the benefit of the doubt. He responded to questions about his tweet with an explanation that while some may not believe is at least understandable.

George Hill is not satan. George Hill is not the major problem with the Kings. Now some of you are saying we'd be in playoff contention if he wasn't playing so poorly? I thought most of you didn't want the playoffs - that you want another shot at a top draft pick before 2019? Come on, guys. You cannot have it both ways.
 
That article had NO direct sourcing, no real quotes and is outdated to boot.

Some guy from the Salt Lake Tribute says there was a promise made and George Hill isn't happy and cites "multiple sources"?

George Hill is not an idiot, not are the other vets. If they thought the Kings were going to be legitimate playoff contenders and came here solely for that, they're too dumb to be allowed out by themselves.

It has been reported elsewhere that there are personal family issues George Hill is trying to deal with. I personally think we owe him at least the benefit of the doubt. He responded to questions about his tweet with an explanation that while some may not believe is at least understandable.

George Hill is not satan. George Hill is not the major problem with the Kings. Now some of you are saying we'd be in playoff contention if he wasn't playing so poorly? I thought most of you didn't want the playoffs - that you want another shot at a top draft pick before 2019? Come on, guys. You cannot have it both ways.
You are correct on the lack of a named source. People need to look at the sources or lack of. This reminds me of the Pete D'Allesandro / Chris Mullin "era".
 
Is it possible Hill, VC and Z-Bo were misled? Yes. Is it probable? No.

There is no way Scott Perry said " We have 9 first and second year players we are wanting to develop and we would like to bring you on to mentor. Oh, and we will likely make the playoffs"

If he did, and Hill believed that we could make the playoffs, that's on him. He already turned down an 88m/4yr offer from Utah so maybe his thought process isn't the most robust. Not trying to knock him, just pointing out what stands out to me.

There are no sources listed and this Yahoo writer isn't very reputable.

Now, in the video I linked in another post Hill did say he chose Sacramento because they weren't looking to tank.However, not actively tanking, and having little hope at a playoff birth are two different things.

I just think there is more to the Hill situation than simply " I thought we would be better". If there isn't, well, that's on Hill.

I also don't see Carter or Z-Bo with any issues with the current state of the team so something in this "article" doesn't add up.
 
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Gee I thought it was very clear when season began , the 3 vets were here to teach, mentor the kids
1 yr for Vince ( I think he has really tried to help the kids) Im ok with it
2 yrs of Zbo - yeah great to have that grit and provide scoring so
the games are all blow outs to get at least some
close games Im ok with that too

If Scott Perry made comments to them saying we are getting you guys for a playoff run?
Cant believe the Vets really believed that

Maybe Hill thought he would be splitting the minutes with fox, Maybe he had no clue Mason would be that good?
Maybe he should have tried harder to really be a 20Mil a year player? If he was
he would not loose out min to the kids

BTW Hill is really a 2 yr deal, 3rd yr is a 1mil Guarrantee, but
I feel if the FO really had confidence in Fox,Mason They should have got a 1 yr Vet instead

maybe Hill is angry with himself as he told people re the tweet
Maybe when his "personal reasons are resolved" he can focus on Bball
again and earn his check

But saying the FO has lied to him, and the vets
and we are a mess because of that is just WRONG !!!