Fox NBA Statstuffers Article Thingy

[Bricklayer]

Tis the offseason, so I just post whatever I come across regarding the Kings:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/pgStory?contentId=9966898#sport=NBA&photo=9968302

#4 on the list is our horse in the race

 

[Dreadnought]

Is this more of a I-told-you-so/I'm-right-and-Fox-agrees-with-me kind of post?

 

[Chupacabra]

Meh, although Martin's defense isnt the greatest i dont think that means he deserves a spot on this list. Martin is an EXCELLENT scorer. The only players i agree should be on this list is Crawford, Maggette, and Randolph.

 

[VF21]

Is this more of a I-told-you-so/I'm-right-and-Fox-agrees-with-me kind of post?

If I had to vote on a possible rationale, I'm pretty sure yours would get my vote.

After all this time, however, I - and a number of Martin fans I know - have simply become resolved to the fact he'll always be fodder for the mill as far as some people are concerned. And you know what? That's fine. He's still been one of the pleasant surprises out of the past few years and he's already done much, much better than some would ever want to admit.

It's all good...

 

[Chupacabra]

Im anxious to see how much muscle Martin has put on. The guy is 8 inches taller than me and only 5 pounds heavier. Am i super swoll or is he really skinny? The answer is both!

 

[VF21]

His slender frame is hereditary to some extent. I don't think we'll be seeing him add too much more muscle or mass. Remember how much Bibby's game was impacted - negatively - when he bulked up past what he should have been? One of Kev's biggest assets is his quickness. I'd just as soon he keep that and look like Tayshaun Prince instead of bulking up and losing that speed.

 

[Bricklayer]

Is this more of a I-told-you-so/I'm-right-and-Fox-agrees-with-me kind of post?

Actually my hesitation in posting it was more or less that, until I remembered my disdain for the hopeless homers around here and said screw it. Let 'em whine. I didn't write it, and unless I have missed something there is not a lot of choice for Kings articles out there right now.

And yes, I have been posting articles as I stumble across them, and not drawing lines when so doing. That will continue.

 

[VF21]

I'm not a hopeless homer and I'm not whining. You have NEVER hidden your feelings about Kev so I don't think it's totally outside the realm of possibility to think that you did, in fact, have somewhat of an ulterior motive (if that's the right term) in posting the article...

Your disdain for Martin is as well-known as my homerism.

 

[SacTownKid]

OK, while I can see what the writer is trying to say his usage of exaggeration completely dilutes his argument. Destroy the myth that Kevin Martin "while scoring 25 a game, often gives up 30". Kevin was outscored by his G counterpart 14 times last year. I don't know what this guys definition of "often" is, but mine certainly isn't a hair over 10% of the time.

 

[Gary]

That's bullcrap... Those are the same "experts" that didn't think Martin would amount to anything. Now that he has they have to try to find fault. It's not like Martin would be a crap player for any other team... Put him in San Antonio and I bet he would put up close to 20 a game+/-

 

[mac]

That's bullcrap... Those are the same "experts" that didn't think Martin would amount to anything. Now that he has they have to try to find fault. It's not like Martin would be a crap player for any other team... Put him in San Antonio and I bet he would put up close to 20 a game+/-

You know it's very very weird when I agree with you on one of the biggest topics around here, namely KMart's value and disagree with you on the other, Evan's success on the Kings. I'm afraid I'll have to support you on one thread, and disagree with you on the other. It's so weird. haha

 

[sono]

Actually my hesitation in posting it was more or less that, until I remembered my disdain for the hopeless homers around here and said screw it. Let 'em whine. I didn't write it, and unless I have missed something there is not a lot of choice for Kings articles out there right now.

And yes, I have been posting articles as I stumble across them, and not drawing lines when so doing. That will continue.

hahaha good one Brick, I'm with you.

 

[Warhawk]

That's bullcrap... Those are the same "experts" that didn't think Martin would amount to anything. Now that he has they have to try to find fault. It's not like Martin would be a crap player for any other team... Put him in San Antonio and I bet he would put up close to 20 a game+/-

Put him in SA and either he'd have to put out effort on D or he wouldn't play.

 

[Warhawk]

OK, while I can see what the writer is trying to say his usage of exaggeration completely dilutes his argument. Destroy the myth that Kevin Martin "while scoring 25 a game, often gives up 30". Kevin was outscored by his G counterpart 14 times last year. I don't know what this guys definition of "often" is, but mine certainly isn't a hair over 10% of the time.

14/82 isn't a hair over 10% It's closer to 20%.

Not saying I disagree, just saying check your math.

 

[jalfa]

14/82 isn't a hair over 10% It's closer to 20%.

Not saying I disagree, just saying check your math.

In addition, he only played in 51 games, making it roughly 27% of the games. I mean, we want to be thorough, don't we?

 

[Prince_XY]

That's bullcrap... Those are the same "experts" that didn't think Martin would amount to anything. Now that he has they have to try to find fault. It's not like Martin would be a crap player for any other team... Put him in San Antonio and I bet he would put up close to 20 a game+/-

IMO, the article is actually bullseye, right on target on Martin. No way this can be bullcrap to an objective critic.

Iverson, Carter, Boozer, and most of the guys in the list with Martin are all deceptively very good players. They are very good, but their numbers really don't add-up. It's either you missed the point of the article, or you are a victim of "homerism".

I agree with Warhawk that if Martin plays in San Antonio, he would be spending more time on the bench if he plays his kind of game. His lack of effort in defense is just so anti-championship.

 

[bajaden]

Im anxious to see how much muscle Martin has put on. The guy is 8 inches taller than me and only 5 pounds heavier. Am i super swoll or is he really skinny? The answer is both!

So are you now, Chubbycabra??

 

[CruzDude]

Well, well. The TDOS has created a new strain of Swine Flu, er, I mean, Kings Flu. Feverish, whiny, stiff all over (brain too), grumpy, etc. Kinda fun to watch (see), in a sick sort of way, from our grandstand here on the beach. Lets see, Aug 23 to Sept 28, hmmm, thats only 36 days to start of training camp and 44 days to the first pre-season game.

If the Kings show big improvement this year like in 1998, then Kevin becomes an All-Star and Tyreke is first team all-rookie and the KingsWorld is brighter again and the Kings Flu dissipates.

And since its closer for us to Phoenix, we're going to the Kings@Suns preseason game on October 20th, then to the Kings@Clips game February 20.

 

[VF21]

IMO, the article is actually bullseye, right on target on Martin. No way this can be bullcrap to an objective critic.

Iverson, Carter, Boozer, and most of the guys in the list with Martin are all deceptively very good players. They are very good, but their numbers really don't add-up. It's either you missed the point of the article, or you are a victim of "homerism".

I agree with Warhawk that if Martin plays in San Antonio, he would be spending more time on the bench if he plays his kind of game. His lack of effort in defense is just so anti-championship.

You make my argument for me, even though I know it was not your intent.

Look at the names you're putting Kevin Martin with... Allen Iverson, Vince Carter and Carlos Boozer. That's pretty freaking good company, even with their warts and wrinkles. And it's INCREDIBLE company when you add in the irrefutable FACT that Kev was selected 26th in the draft, was the "sleeper" who caught nearly everyone by surprise, and who has so far exceeded the original expectations of almost everyone that it's not even relevant to the discussion.

I personally am beyond sick and tired of the labeling that goes on around here. If someone doesn't like parts of a players game, they're automatically labeled "haters." If someone else DOES like a player, and accepts the good and bad aspects of his game, they're liable to be ridiculed with the "homer" label or accused of "homerism."

Bah, humbug. I'm a Kings fan. I see good and bad in every single one of our players. That doesn't make me a hater or a homer. It makes me a Kings fan. Period. If my assessment of a player differs from yours - or anyone else's - it doesn't make it right or wrong. It makes it a different POV. And it's the different POVs that keep a message board alive. What can kill a message board is the constant and continual labeling...

/end of tirade

 

[King Baller]

That artcle is kicking some guys when they are down...AKA..coming off of injuries in the case of KMart and Boozer. AI and VC are at the end of their careers. The other guys are pretty good, not All Stars, but they have value on some teams. Some of them are over paid...Zack cough, cough Randolph

H*$% you can poke holes in 99% of the players games in the NBA if you want to.

KMart is a hard working young man who has EARNED his success. I can't wait for the Kings to lace em up and play ball.

KB

 

[SacTownKid]

14/82 isn't a hair over 10% It's closer to 20%.

Not saying I disagree, just saying check your math.

Yeah, it was a slight exaggeration on my part. A way to balance out the gross exaggeration on the part of the writer. I thought I was being clever but I guess it didn't transfer.

 

[SacTownKid]

In addition, he only played in 51 games, making it roughly 27% of the games. I mean, we want to be thorough, don't we?

That was just the math on him getting outscored. He did however give up 30 only 10% of the time or slightly over that. When a writer pulls numbers out of his butt to make his point seem more valid it makes his words empty and meaningless. Next!

 

[Emma]

I'm 5'5" 155. 32 inch waist, 40 inch chest, about 14% body fat. These #'s are approximate. 28 inch vertical.




Sorry, just seems to me I should let everybody know my stats so they can use them against me.


all important edit: 68 inch wingspan. fixed it.

 

[VF21]

You forgot your wingspan... Geez.

 

[NME]

You forgot your wingspan... Geez.

Seven! Foot! Wing! Span! [/Gavin]

 

[Bricklayer]

That was just the math on him getting outscored. He did however give up 30 only 10% of the time or slightly over that. When a writer pulls numbers out of his butt to make his point seem more valid it makes his words empty and meaningless. Next!

Of course none of the above numbers is accurate, because Kevin doesn't guard his man if his man can score -- that duty always went to whoever our SF was. Artest when he was here, Salmons when he was here, even Cisco. Maybe not Noc for the few games he played with Kevin -- did not pay attention but doubt you'd have him chase an OG, although with Natt who knows.

In any case you can't just look to the opposing OG for the matchup, because we hide Kevin on defense and have had some good defensive SFs to throw at the tougher Kobe/Roy etc. matchups. For the writer's stat, which was obviously just hyperbole and doesn't deserve this much discussion, that cuts both ways. On the one hand it reinforces the general point that Kevin's offense is offset by his defense. On the other hand probably even FEWER of the men Kevin actually did guard went off for 30 than the direct stats would indicate, because we always had him guarding Shane Battier, Dahntay Jones, or Nicholas Batum if we could finagle it while Salmons et.al. was getting the nightly Kobe/Roy/Melo etc. fun.

 

[SacTownKid]

Of course none of the above numbers is accurate, because Kevin doesn't guard his man if his man can score -- that duty always went to whoever our SF was. Artest when he was here, Salmons when he was here, even Cisco. Maybe not Noc for the few games he played with Kevin -- did not pay attention but doubt you'd have him chase an OG, although with Natt who knows.

In any case you can't just look to the opposing OG for the matchup, because we hide Kevin on defense and have had some good defensive SFs to throw at the tougher Kobe/Roy etc. matchups. For the writer's stat, which was obviously just hyperbole and doesn't deserve this much discussion, that cuts both ways. On the one hand it reinforces the general point that Kevin's offense is offset by his defense. On the other hand probably even FEWER of the men Kevin actually did guard went off for 30 than the direct stats would indicate, because we always had him guarding Shane Battier, Dahntay Jones, or Nicholas Batum if we could finagle it while Salmons et.al. was getting the nightly Kobe/Roy/Melo etc. fun.

No, it was pure and simple use of exaggeration and fabricated numbers to make a point. The truth is, that even though Kevin may have some deficiencies they are no where near as severe as that article or writer would like you to believe, and that, the numbers prove.

 

[Prince_XY]

On the one hand it reinforces the general point that Kevin's offense is offset by his defense. On the other hand probably even FEWER of the men Kevin actually did guard went off for 30 than the direct stats would indicate, because we always had him guarding Shane Battier, Dahntay Jones, or Nicholas Batum if we could finagle it while Salmons et.al. was getting the nightly Kobe/Roy/Melo etc. fun.

Wow. I haven't heard, or read this word for a long time. Thanks for reminding me that this word still exists.

Actually, there shouldn't be any rising of eyebrows about the impropriety of the article. IMO, it should be viewed as a compliment to Martin being included to this list of very good players, but with serious flaws in their game. We shouldn't forget that Martin was drafted very late in the first round.

Also, nobody can deny the fact that Martin's effort in defense is really pathetic. Only a hopeless homer will see it otherwise.

 

[VF21]

Wow. I haven't heard, or read this word for a long time. Thanks for reminding me that this word still exists.

Actually, there shouldn't be any rising of eyebrows about the impropriety of the article. IMO, it should be viewed as a compliment to Martin being included to this list of very good players, but with serious flaws in their game. We shouldn't forget that Martin was drafted very late in the first round.

Also, nobody can deny the fact that Martin's effort in defense is really pathetic. Only a hopeless homer will see it otherwise.

I don't think anyone is nominating Martin for defensive player of the year or anything similar. The article, however, and a lot of the players who are so overly critical of Martin, cleverly omit the FACT that Kev played most of last year with a lingering injury. If you had read the piece about Westphal's STH dinner, you'd know that even our new coach made reference to that FACT.

...

And look, I managed to get my point across without resorting to the use of the "homer" OR "hater" word. You might want to try it...