Fire Smart

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#61
Ifat1st, I do think a huge problem with the extension of Smart, beyond the prospect of paying two coaches at the same time again at some point next season, and all the effects a lame duck coach can have on development/training camp, is that in terms of hiring a top coach, it has to happen during the summer. The summer is when teams hire big time coaches, never after firing a coach mid season.

So once again, we extended Smart into the time period which is most important for hiring and recruiting a top coach. Fire Smart during the season next year and as you said we'll get a s***ty replacement. The summer is when hiring/courting must be done, and the Maloofs just made it that much tougher on themselves. And I'm shocked they don't realize how important May/June/July is for getting a new coach.

Of course nothing in theory is preventing them from axing Smart after the season and courting someone else, but I'd say I'm less than confident that happens, and that's being kind.


You know what? Smart seems like a smart guy. He can really talk the game. He seemed to ingratiate himself wiht at least certain of the players. He just can't manage it. Meanwhile we have an aging GM in need of a dynamic successor.

I think I just figured out what to do with the second year of Smart's contract. Hire a major coach with a proven track record, bump Smart up as asistant GM. Then your only worry has to be tht he starts slanting player aquisitions to the point we have 11 guards. But as mentioned, thing is that he TALKS a good game. Most of the time. When its not Nellie throwing his voice and spewing diarrhea out of Smart's mouth.
 
#62
I'll take this opportunity to admit/remember something:

Actually, I think that Westphal talked a better GAME than Smart.

He consistently would point out what the Kings needed to do, and how they weren't doing what they needed to do.
He would say exactly what was apparent out there on the court, and seldom dodged questions as I remember.

Smart is a more persuasive/charismatic guy, but really he doesn't SAY much - pretty superficial stuff, and he is dodging the real questions, not addressing the real problems with this team.

Partially because he is SO inexperienced as a head coach, and doesn't have decades of experience.
I think Westphal was able to be so refreshingly honest in the postgame interviews because he really didn't particularly care about his career anymore (or at least wasn't terrified of losing his position). He certainly didn't cover up for anyone's errors, including his own. Hell, he fell on the sword MANY times for the players inadequacies, basically taking the blame that he couldn't get them to do what he asked them to do.

I am already DONE with Smart - I think he's been blowing smoke up everyone's ***, and has no clue what is really going on out there.
As far as I'm concerned, he's already proven he's much worse at the X's and O's of the game than Westphal. Smart just doesn't seem to understand why what the Kings are doing isn't working, and his substitutions have shown that he has no concept of pieces fitting together to make more than the sum of their parts.

Westphal's problem was, he got lazy and rode Tyreke, banking everything on Reke getting dominant. Well, that didn't work, and it cost Westphal his job (and the rest of his career).

But as far as personalities?
I preferred Westphal's honest frankness over Smart's charisma covering up problems and not really discussing what's going on unless it's feel-good, "we gotta get better".
Yeah, Westphal used those same lines, but I really thought he hoped we would whereas Smart I think is already spewing lines just to save his ***.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#63
Here's his postgame from last night. Again, I'm very worried in how he answers questions about defense, as in, he barely answers them, somewhat dodges the question, and what he does say doesn't really make sense.


"When tayshaun is making long jumpers, there's nothing you can do". He says JJ can't guard him. Ugh, the question was more of why didn't Greene/Outlaw get a shot. He thinks putting MT of Prince is as good a strategy as we can have with our roster. Every one of his responses went back to offense. This guy is in over his head.
 
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Glenn

Hall of Famer
#64
I am very tired of listening to him. A good leader like a good coach has to first prove he can get something done. He hasn't proven it. He hasn't found his go to guy who must be a 2, 3 or 4. Did I hear that right?
 
#65
One thing I always feel about firing a coach is, "who is the replacement"? Unless some plan is in place, the only reason to fire a coach would be if the team has totally tuned him out. That doesn't seem to have happened with Smart yet, though if the team keeps playing this bad on defense, it might happen sooner than later, particularly amongst guys like Reke, who try on defense.

Going back to potential replacement, Nate McMillan suddenly became available. While the Blazer team was floundering, I've always liked him as a coach. Thought he did a great job with the Seattle teams, and later with Portland. It was his bad luck that two potential franchise guys were lost to injuries. Despite that, his teams did quite well, though lately, they went down.

He's been a West coast guy all along, a proven, respected coach, who recently coached an all star PF. Could we entice him to move a little South, and mentor another young soon to be all-star big?
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#66
I am very tired of listening to him. A good leader like a good coach has to first prove he can get something done. He hasn't proven it. He hasn't found his go to guy who must be a 2, 3 or 4. Did I hear that right?
He seemed to talk about defensive guys at the 2, 3, and 4, but then also saying that he doesn't have a "go-to" guy. Well, you have two potential "go-to" guys. They're young. Give them the opportunity to be in that situation instead of letting a game get out of control by having them on the bench when that situation arises. There are pivotal moments in each game, and your player needs to be on the floor in those situations. A good coach can recognize those moments and at least know that the kid you're hoping will succeed in the future can get the practice in the present.

Remember how Kobe could never hit the game winner?
What about Dirk? "Never had it in him." All the vets who are succeeding now failed when they first came into the league. Again, you have your "go-to" guys on this team, coach.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#67
He seemed to talk about defensive guys at the 2, 3, and 4, but then also saying that he doesn't have a "go-to" guy. Well, you have two potential "go-to" guys. They're young. Give them the opportunity to be in that situation instead of letting a game get out of control by having them on the bench when that situation arises. There are pivotal moments in each game, and your player needs to be on the floor in those situations. A good coach can recognize those moments and at least know that the kid you're hoping will succeed in the future can get the practice in the present.

Remember how Kobe could never hit the game winner?
What about Dirk? "Never had it in him." All the vets who are succeeding now failed when they first came into the league. Again, you have your "go-to" guys on this team, coach.
He wouldn't know how to use a go to guy if Kobe kicked him in the nuts. We have two potential go to guys, Reke and Cuz, Cuz being the 1st option, with MT being our best spot up threat. Yet at the end of games Smart changes his go to guy just about every 4th quarter.

Tries to make Salmons a go to guy. Then Cisco. Then Jimmer. Then Cuz. Then IT. Then MT. Then Salmons again. He has different lineups on the floor at the end of every game. Also has the problem of not distinguishing between the 2,3 and 4, and his 2's sometimes play the 4, and vice versa.

Why he's not developing Reke/Cuz at the end and using MT as a catch and shoot threat I don't get. Instead he'll iso MT, or have Jimmer/IT try to go 1v1. He'll have Salmons/Cisco/Hayes playing a 3 man game instead of our clear to 3 guys. He's complaining about roles, even though he switches them every goddamn game. He doesn't even know who to have in there in the final 6 mins, and even if he did he wouldn't be able to get them in given the only way he knows how to sub is lineup for lineup.
 
#68
I think smart is in the middle of trying to win games and trying to develop players and see where they work together and where they don't.

I think he needs to pick a strategy. Personally I would like to see him play a 9-10 man rotation with Outlaw and Cisco never seeing the floor. He should start

Jimmer 25 min
Reke 35 min
Donte 25 mi
Thompson 30 min
Cousins 35 min

6 Thorton 35 min
7 Isaha 25 min
8 Salmons 25 min
9 Hayes 20 min

Give whiteseide occasional minutes.

(I did not do the math to see if those minutes were accurate)
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#69
Actually, the whole thing is humorous to some extent, and I can't argue with either of you, but I do know this, Having Marcus Thronton guard Prince, is a recipe for loosing. Just like having Jimmer guard Kareem Rush. You just can't give away 4 to 5 inches on defense and expect to stop a good player. I sat there watching the game last night with Cruzdude, and started laughing. He asked me why, and I said, they actually have Thornton at 6'3" guarding Prince, who at least 6'8". Dude doesn't even have to jump to shoot over him. Now thats funny!
Hey, don't complain. We're going to get a lot more ping pong balls. One of your top 5 is going to be drafted. And we can all give kudos to Smart. One big homage. He's like West over at GS except more covert. Instead of West who trades players for a guy who isn't going to play this year (thereby moving up the draft pecking order), Smart is toying with the lineup. Move a piece here. Replace a guy there. Pieces on a chess board. It's all a ruse. He's got his contract. He just wants a better draft pick.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#70
I think smart is in the middle of trying to win games and trying to develop players and see where they work together and where they don't.

I think he needs to pick a strategy. Personally I would like to see him play a 9-10 man rotation with Outlaw and Cisco never seeing the floor. He should start

Jimmer 25 min
Reke 35 min
Donte 25 mi
Thompson 30 min
Cousins 35 min

6 Thorton 35 min
7 Isaha 25 min
8 Salmons 25 min
9 Hayes 20 min

Give whiteseide occasional minutes.

(I did not do the math to see if those minutes were accurate)
What's funny is when Smart took over he was talking about getting guys in great shape and playing them 35-40 mins per night. Since, he's flipped the script and now anyone is lucky to get 30.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#71
What's funny is when Smart took over he was talking about getting guys in great shape and playing them 35-40 mins per night. Since, he's flipped the script and now anyone is lucky to get 30.
In perhaps the only defense of Smart I can mount, I think he meant to get them in shape at the beginiing of the season and apparantly he now figures he has a team that is in shape so no longer has to run them into the ground. It makes some sense. My problem with that approach is that he put getting the guys uinto shape above winning. Fans pay for tickets and want to watch wins.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#72
What's funny is when Smart took over he was talking about getting guys in great shape and playing them 35-40 mins per night. Since, he's flipped the script and now anyone is lucky to get 30.
You could probably also argue that the increased minutes led to consistency among those on the heavier end of the minutes.
 
#74
What's funny is when Smart took over he was talking about getting guys in great shape and playing them 35-40 mins per night. Since, he's flipped the script and now anyone is lucky to get 30.
He meant a running game right? To our best player, DMC, i think that means a running game. That is NOT putting our team in the best position to succeed. Cousins is our best player and he works best in the half court. A running game is not gonna play to our advantages... And i think it's already told its' story on defense...
 
#76
Maybe the problem with Tyreke is that he doesn't realize that when he's in the game he does have the ball in his hands most of the time. Maybe that explained why he dribbled the ball until time start to run out. I'm glad that he is trying to work on his shot, but he better work on playing wihtout the ball as well.

This team has no star and to play team everyone have to learn to play without the ball.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#77

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#80
LOL, I have never seen a more clueless group of people act like they know so much.
You do know you just pretty much insulted yourself above and beyond anyone in this "clueless group" you speak of, right?

What does it say if you're incapable of bringing a single, relevant thought to the conversation?
 
#82
It doesn't really matter what the lineup is. As long as the team reverts to their old 1 on 1 strategy at the end of games, they're going to keep blowing it in the final minutes.

The first 15 or 20 games they were lucky to score 90 points because they just played 1 on 1 streetball all game.

Finally Smart gets some sort of offense going and these guys start scoring 100+ every night.

Yet when it comes to crunch time, Cousins and Thornton think they have to be the hero every night. Neither guy is a terrific 1 on 1 player. There aren't many Kobe's, Pierce's and Durant's in the league and we happen to have none of them. There is no reason why the players should abandon the offense at the end of each game to try and play hero
 
S

sactownfan

Guest
#83
It doesn't really matter what the lineup is. As long as the team reverts to their old 1 on 1 strategy at the end of games, they're going to keep blowing it in the final minutes.

The first 15 or 20 games they were lucky to score 90 points because they just played 1 on 1 streetball all game.

Finally Smart gets some sort of offense going and these guys start scoring 100+ every night.

Yet when it comes to crunch time, Cousins and Thornton think they have to be the hero every night. Neither guy is a terrific 1 on 1 player. There aren't many Kobe's, Pierce's and Durant's in the league and we happen to have none of them. There is no reason why the players should abandon the offense at the end of each game to try and play hero
thank you... absolutely great points ... we had no "team offense" pre Smart... now it actually resembles a "sharing offense" with lots of movement...

YES Smart has made some silly subs and rotations... but the team... no matter who's on the floor... seem to be playing better as a team.... honestly the only times that the team seems to stall is when IT is on the bench...
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#85
Isn't this already under discussion in a couple of other threads?

Just because you start a thread doesn't mean you need to bump it back up to the top. Believe me, it's truly boring to see 99% old comments and one or two new ones. Why not just let this thread die in favor of the newer threads that seem to have more participation?
 
#86
we're not getting W's but the team looks alot better and alot more exciting to watch... Our future supersar is starting to dominate and improve dramaticcally everygame under Smart. why would we fire him??! Honestly are people even watching the games.. Nothings going to change if we brought another coach in, it'll probably get alot worse matter of fact... Our team has positional issues with the players that need to be addressed in the off season. Thats the problem rght now. Smarts doing everything he can.
 
#87
we're not getting W's but the team looks alot better and alot more exciting to watch... Our future supersar is starting to dominate and improve dramaticcally everygame under Smart. why would we fire him??! Honestly are people even watching the games.. Nothings going to change if we brought another coach in, it'll probably get alot worse matter of fact... Our team has positional issues with the players that need to be addressed in the off season. Thats the problem rght now. Smarts doing everything he can.
Frankly I don't give a **** about exciting to watch, as long as the results are there, which they aren't. I think Coach Smart deserves a lot of credit for some things - he's definitely worked wonders for Cousins (which in itself is an undervalued achievement) and his stressing team-play can only do our youngsters good in the long run. I also think that it's unfortunate that the roster is as imbalanced as it is. That said, I'm not seeing any sort of outstanding coaching in the sense of having real plays ran, watching improvements in our defensive schemes, finding ways to make use of our players (other than Cousins) etc. Jimmer is a shooter - why don't we run plays to set screens to get him open? I haven't seen much player development under Smart, as in - what are our players getting better at? Tyreke WAS getting better at running the point and finding guys, then Smart moved him to SF. JT's improvement only came with the hiring of Clifford Ray. Has Cousins' control of fouling improved? Post moves? Cousins is putting up his numbers in very much the same way Evans did in his rookie year - out of sheer talent and unstoppable-ness, often going one on one where his ability to put the ball on the floor allows him to get past his defender, or his rebounding skill that allows him to get multiple putbacks, not out of a system that allows him to get easy looks or create shots for others.

I have not seen any effort whatsoever from Smart to put guys like Evans, Jimmer, heck even Thornton, in positions where their talents can be close to maximised. That I believe, is a huge part of the gripe here. It's not so much a problem with smallball as it is the effects that going small and playing guys out of position has on the long-term development of the team and players.

A good coach finds a way to use his players' strengths one way or another. If he wants a player to work on his weaknesses he runs plays designed to give that player practice in that area. I like how he tells Jimmer, "shoot!", but doesn't run plays to free him up to get good looks. I like how he tells Tyreke to move more off the ball, and to take the shots given to him, but doesn't instruct the offense to giev Tyreke the ball or designate plays such that Tyreke ends up with open mid-range shots. No, his system is push the ball, shoot a lot of shots, pick and pop with Cousins, let Cousins go 1 on 1, let IT go 1 on 1, let Thornton go 1 on 1, score off putbacks, let Salmons go 1 on 1, let Isaiah Thomas find a way to help pick the offense up. There is hardly any regularity or consistency in our offense. Like many have said, he plays the guys like it's little league, and everyone is supposed to just find a way to score.

All that said, I am realistic - this is a young team. I don't expect them to execute like the Spurs with multiple passes and intentionally set screens, but I do wish I could see some sort of effort to move in that direction. And by effort I mean one originating from the coach, one that isn't dependent on guys being willing to pass the ball. I want stuff drawn up such that they HAVE to move the ball, or get benched for not executing the play correctly.

It's weird, because to me things seem fairly simple. You design plays and adjust them to suit whatever strengths you have at your disposal. Defense clogs the paint when Tyreke has the ball - put him out there with Garcia and Jimmer, set some screens, get Tyreke open for a 18ft set shot (we've seen him hit this) or have Jimmer coming off a screen at the 3 point line and Garcia in the corner, giving Tyreke the option of driving or passing the ball to an open shooter (since the defense will have to rotate). Pick and rolls weren't working because we have no good outside shooter? Erm, then what did we draft Jimmer for? Put him in a position to receive that kick out!

And if all that doesn't work, I'll raise my hands and say that at least they tried something that seemed logical. I will not blame the coach if guys get open shots but simply don't make them, and I won't blame him for moving away from that thereafter.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#88
Frankly I don't give a **** about exciting to watch, as long as the results are there, which they aren't. I think Coach Smart deserves a lot of credit for some things - he's definitely worked wonders for Cousins (which in itself is an undervalued achievement) and his stressing team-play can only do our youngsters good in the long run. I also think that it's unfortunate that the roster is as imbalanced as it is. That said, I'm not seeing any sort of outstanding coaching in the sense of having real plays ran, watching improvements in our defensive schemes, finding ways to make use of our players (other than Cousins) etc. Jimmer is a shooter - why don't we run plays to set screens to get him open? I haven't seen much player development under Smart, as in - what are our players getting better at? Tyreke WAS getting better at running the point and finding guys, then Smart moved him to SF. JT's improvement only came with the hiring of Clifford Ray. Has Cousins' control of fouling improved? Post moves? Cousins is putting up his numbers in very much the same way Evans did in his rookie year - out of sheer talent and unstoppable-ness, often going one on one where his ability to put the ball on the floor allows him to get past his defender, or his rebounding skill that allows him to get multiple putbacks, not out of a system that allows him to get easy looks or create shots for others.

I have not seen any effort whatsoever from Smart to put guys like Evans, Jimmer, heck even Thornton, in positions where their talents can be close to maximised. That I believe, is a huge part of the gripe here. It's not so much a problem with smallball as it is the effects that going small and playing guys out of position has on the long-term development of the team and players.

A good coach finds a way to use his players' strengths one way or another. If he wants a player to work on his weaknesses he runs plays designed to give that player practice in that area. I like how he tells Jimmer, "shoot!", but doesn't run plays to free him up to get good looks. I like how he tells Tyreke to move more off the ball, and to take the shots given to him, but doesn't instruct the offense to giev Tyreke the ball or designate plays such that Tyreke ends up with open mid-range shots. No, his system is push the ball, shoot a lot of shots, pick and pop with Cousins, let Cousins go 1 on 1, let IT go 1 on 1, let Thornton go 1 on 1, score off putbacks, let Salmons go 1 on 1, let Isaiah Thomas find a way to help pick the offense up. There is hardly any regularity or consistency in our offense. Like many have said, he plays the guys like it's little league, and everyone is supposed to just find a way to score.

All that said, I am realistic - this is a young team. I don't expect them to execute like the Spurs with multiple passes and intentionally set screens, but I do wish I could see some sort of effort to move in that direction. And by effort I mean one originating from the coach, one that isn't dependent on guys being willing to pass the ball. I want stuff drawn up such that they HAVE to move the ball, or get benched for not executing the play correctly.

It's weird, because to me things seem fairly simple. You design plays and adjust them to suit whatever strengths you have at your disposal. Defense clogs the paint when Tyreke has the ball - put him out there with Garcia and Jimmer, set some screens, get Tyreke open for a 18ft set shot (we've seen him hit this) or have Jimmer coming off a screen at the 3 point line and Garcia in the corner, giving Tyreke the option of driving or passing the ball to an open shooter (since the defense will have to rotate). Pick and rolls weren't working because we have no good outside shooter? Erm, then what did we draft Jimmer for? Put him in a position to receive that kick out!

And if all that doesn't work, I'll raise my hands and say that at least they tried something that seemed logical. I will not blame the coach if guys get open shots but simply don't make them, and I won't blame him for moving away from that thereafter.
The assist have skyrocketed and turnovers have decreased. Of course there is better offense.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#89
The assist have skyrocketed and turnovers have decreased. Of course there is better offense.
As others have pointed out, the Thunder have one of the lowest team assist totals in the league. I'd say their offense looks pretty good. It did against LA.
Having higher assist numbers and fewer turnovers doesn't mean the offense is better - it just means individual players are doing a lot better job of not turning the ball over, and players are hitting shots. Just a small sample - most of IT's assists last game were to Cousins in the post, and the big guy knocked them in. Does that mean that the offense is running better, or just that Cousins is finishing more of the shots that he did not finish earlier in the year?
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#90
As others have pointed out, the Thunder have one of the lowest team assist totals in the league. I'd say their offense looks pretty good. It did against LA.
Having higher assist numbers and fewer turnovers doesn't mean the offense is better - it just means individual players are doing a lot better job of not turning the ball over, and players are hitting shots. Just a small sample - most of IT's assists last game were to Cousins in the post, and the big guy knocked them in. Does that mean that the offense is running better, or just that Cousins is finishing more of the shots that he did not finish earlier in the year?
I think we'll have to disagree: Having many more assists and fewer turnovers does make the offense better. If the Thunder improved in their ball movement and their assist/to then their offense would be even better than it is. The Thunder may be able to thrive with relatively little ball movement and mediocre assist/to, but to make up for that they have to have very good one on one players like Durant and Westbrook. The Kings don't have that luxury. I think it's obvious to the casual observer that ball movement has been a lot better under Smart. And that ball movement creates better, open shots for the offense. It doesn't have to do with Cousins becoming an overnight sensation at finishing (there is still much work to be done for that to occur). Like you say, you're looking at a small sample, and just one game in one case. You have to look over weeks to get the big picture, not two or three games. The trendline is in a jagged, but upward, trajectory.