ESPN: George Karl fired (edited title)

#61
mark jackson and vinny del negro are names that scare me. jackson for his overbearing religiosity and del negro for his perpetual mediocrity. i'm firmly in the thibodeau camp, and i'd be satisfied with a scott brooks hire, but if either candidate proves to be out of the kings' reach, then i'd much rather see this franchise take a flyer on an up-and-coming assistant rather than pursue jackson or del negro...
I'm with you on Mark Jackson and Vinny Del Degro. As good as the Warriors were with him I think we know it was more about the players. Also even though the players seemed to like him it was reported on multiple occasions that Jackson kind of held them back in certain ways. For example he didn't like when Curry would "settle" for those long 3-pointers, better to pass and figure something else out. Even though he would play Green at PF sometimes, he still preferred to play him at a more normal SF and he didn't want him controlling the ball too much, didn't want him as the other PG out there. It's possible that if Jackson were still there the Curry and Green that we all know now wouldn't exist. Now I understand where Jackson was coming from, but sometimes you have to take chances and see what happens and perhaps he is too set in his ways.

For Del Negro I can't add much more, maybe a good coach for taking us to a 7th or 8th seed, but there doesn't seem to be much more special about him. Although to be fair he doesn't have a huge resume, so perhaps there is more to him, we just don't know.

I like Thibodeau as I think his style fits this team, but remember that he has a couple major flaws. He overuses his main players to the point that they get injured or can't complete at as high a level come playoff time. Also he hates using young players and he is stubborn about it. We would not be seeing the Curry or Cauley-Stein that we are seeing right now if he was our coach. He ruined Snell and didn't give deserved minutes to Mirotic or McDermitt, they are fortunate to have a new coach this year. However I do think that players like Collison, Gay, Cousins, and Koufos would excel. From a playing standpoint I think Rondo would excel, but I don't think their personalities would mesh. They both like control and they both micromanage.

To be honest Brooks is kind of like Del Negro in my opinion. He has a small resume, it was padded while coaching some of the best players in the league, and it is possible that he underachieved with the roster he had. I'm not sure he would have much success with this roster and I also don't know what kind of system he prefers to run and if it works for a Cousins led team.

I really don't know much about Blatt's resume outside of the NBA, maybe someone can enlighten me. All I know is he just another guy that LeBron James decided to destroy so I don't think that he was given a fair chance in Cleveland to show what he can do.
 
#63
I understand the negative sentiment regarding Jackson based on personality and/or personal transgressions. But he improved the Warriors every year. Why was he successful? And are his strengths what this team needs when we're talking about finding the best fit?

Edit: I'm not advocating for or against Jackson.
His strong points are throwing folks under the bus that pose any sort of threat to his "brilliance" and in some cases having them fired , throwing shade on the Ws any chance he gets, gay bashing in a totally passive aggressive, insulting manner and his strongest trait is sending d*ck pics to strippers while he's married and a man of God
 
#64
We say that, and yet each of those coaches won 50 games in their last season.
Yeah, I put a lot of that on the talent those teams had. Mchale would be the only one I would maybe be ok with....but I've watched enough of Del Negro and Jackson led teams to form my opinion that they both stink as HC.
 
#66
Blatt has been linked to us Minnesota andBrooklyn so far. Hopefully Thibs goes to Minnesota cause you'd have to be a fool to take the nets job.

Also caves fans say Blatt was behind there great defense last year. And when Lebron wasn't being a ***** and they ran blatts system there offense was explosive.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#67
The more I think on it, the more I want Blatt.

Dude's overseas resume is mad impressive. From what I've heard, he's all about defense and Xs & Os. Could bring what we had with Malone, but better on offense and with way more experience.

He was definitely screwed over by Lebron. Cavs got a bit worse after his firing.

Of Course Cuz might butt heads with him. Blatt has a reputation as a bit of a hard ass. Then again, if he has us winning, they might be fine. Cuz's reputation as a coach killer is way overblown anyways. The only two coaches he's outright had spats with have been Westphail and Karl. Both those guys were tools.
 
#68
Besides Thibs I think we all would love to see Blatt here. I just don't think he's gonna go for it given that there's plenty of opportunities out there. I also wonder if management is willing to fork over the cash required to get a top guy for that.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#70
How many did Karl win his last season with Denver?
Its no guarantee of course, but you also can't dismiss it. These guys have all shown that they are capable of coaching a good team. Of course its certainly possible they were not the ones MAKING those teams good.

And Karl, aside from just being an ass, never really showed up here. Anybody familiar with Karl's long career would be hard pressed to find much similarity to his work here. Couldn't raise his voice, couldn't walk the sidelines, didn't want to practice...he was just physically worn out and shot. The old George was a notoriously loud and feisty hard driver. All we got was his snark and obstinate worn out philosophy. Presumably the other guys would be in better physical shape to make a go of it, although I think McHale had some sort of knee or hip issue too.
 
#71
If this report is accurate it's not all bad news. Everyone would love to land Thibs, which is why it was always a long shot. If that's not in the cards I'd rather see us go with a up and coming assist over the likes of Jackson, Vinny Del Negro, or McHale. If were going for proven commodities then I hope we go with Hornacek or Blatt. Both had good rookie season and got fired more do to circumstance and locker room issues rather then anything that happened on the court.
 
#72
Mark Jackson is a terrible head coach. The Warriors added Livingston and Kerr and turned into a powerhouse. No offense to Livingston but Kerr was the major piece in that equation. The Thompson and Jermaine O'neal post ups, the refusal to get Draymond on the court at the right position, not understand small ball was their best lineup, and the religiosity that alienated some of his players. Numerous questionable decisions that had the Warriors playing far beneath their potential. Proved to be a rare case where winning 50 highlights Jackson shortcomings rather then serving as proof of his abilities.
 
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#73
Its no guarantee of course, but you also can't dismiss it. These guys have all shown that they are capable of coaching a good team. Of course its certainly possible they were not the ones MAKING those teams good.

And Karl, aside from just being an ass, never really showed up here. Anybody familiar with Karl's long career would be hard pressed to find much similarity to his work here. Couldn't raise his voice, couldn't walk the sidelines, didn't want to practice...he was just physically worn out and shot. The old George was a notoriously loud and feisty hard driver. All we got was his snark and obstinate worn out philosophy. Presumably the other guys would be in better physical shape to make a go of it, although I think McHale had some sort of knee or hip issue too.
Have any of these guys shown that they are capable of coaching a bad team, because that is what we are.
 
#75
Mark Jackson is a terrible head coach. The Warriors added Livingston and Kerr and turned into a powerhouse. No offense to Livingston but Kerr was the major piece in that equation. The Thompson and Jermaine O'neal post ups, the refusal to get Draymond on the court at the right position, not understand small ball was their best lineup, and the religiosity that alienated some of his players. Numerous questionable decisions that had the Warriors playing far beneath their potential. Proved to be a rare case where winning 50 counts showed Jackson shortcomings rather then proof of his abilities.

Am I the only guy on the planet that thinks Kerr is getting way too much credit?

The Warriors are ****ing stacked! Oh and have the greatest shooter in NBA history running the show.
 
#77
Am I the only guy on the planet that thinks Kerr is getting way too much credit?

The Warriors are ****ing stacked! Oh and have the greatest shooter in NBA history running the show.
They are stacked. That's the point. Mark got far less out of them then Kerr did with a historically talented roster that was already in place.

Disagree on Kerr. The seeds of how they should of been playing were already planted in their playoff elimination by the Clippers with Bogut out, but he put together a great system and won over the locker room in short order. And at some point you really can't argue with success.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#79
They are stacked. That's the point. Mark got far less out of them then Kerr did with a historically talented roster that was already in place.

Disagree on Kerr. The seeds of how they should of been playing were already planted in their playoff elimination by the Clippers with Bogut out, but he put together a great system and won over the locker room in short order. And at some point you really can't argue with success.
The question would be if they were ready to win under Jackson. Kerr benefittted by coming in with kids maturing into real players and the team's chemistry and confidence already in place.
 
#82
Welp, the big names being out of the Sacto race should surprise no one. People were dreaming if a name like Thibs or even a Brooks would want to come here.

Our coaching list starts at the 5th or 6th best name on the market. This just isn't an attractive destination for any name coach
 
#85
The question would be if they were ready to win under Jackson. Kerr benefittted by coming in with kids maturing into real players and the team's chemistry and confidence already in place.
Jimmy Durkin ‏@Jimmy_Durkin
Andrew Bogut today on coach Steve Kerr: "Whenever you get a head coach who’s not full of himself, it makes a huge difference."

Chemistry was not fine. You had a assistant coach secretly recording the head coach. Bogut was not speaking to Jackson and has taken every opportunity since he was fired to throw him under the bus. Bogut also has implied that he's giving voice to a sentiment that was prevalent in that locker room. Plus a feud with the ownership just to top things off. And that's what we know about.

What credit he gets for developing talent is more tricky. If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt in that area that's reasonable. Still doesn't make him a good coach and doesn't compensate for his inability use his roster correctly. His game plans and rotations at times were bad to the point where it was almost comical. Same goes for Brooks, but at least in his case he doesn't also bring a giant ego and a willingness to alienate anyone that disagrees with him.
 
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#86
Qualifications needed for the new coach:
1. Be physically able to tolerate the NBA season (and the practices)
2. Be able to implement a sound defensive system (and more importantly, have a history of being able to do so)
3. Be willing/open to playing the players that need to play/make us better
4. No more run and gun (assuming the roster stays largely the same)
5. Don't make it a power struggle between you and your best player(s)
6. Don't be a stubborn ***

Thibs would be wonderful, but that's a pipe dream. JVG might be a possibility, but it looks like he is a popular name out there and we don't win very many popularity contests. If there has ever been an absolutely critical offseason in the last 10 or so years, this is it. Our last shot with DMC. If we suck again (history is against us), he will be gone.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#88
We are going to get a "B-C" level coach, best hope is that we find a diamond in the rough like Malone was.
As I've said before, I don't think we can risk that right now. If this coach fails, and Cousins is gone, then the next guy can be our diamond int he rough coach, and pray that Vivek doesn't fire him for it.

But this guy. as much as possible we have to be sure that he can win at the NBA level. that we know how he interacts with players, have some feel for the systems he will run. A "B" coach is just fine here, We've got to be 100% sure its somebody who can give us a chance.
 
I

Im Still Ballin

Guest
#89
We'll have to settle for a 3rd rate coach and free agents. We have a shot at the guys no one else wants badly enough. We are pretty much dead last in the pecking order now. It seems inevitable we'll have to find a diamond in the rough. Because this gig has written in the fine print; Job security not included. I'm going to feel bad for the next coach. It will be an absolute career killer to a young head coach new to the NBA coaching ranks. Very dangerous move.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#90
We'll have to settle for a 3rd rate coach and free agents. We have a shot at the guys no one else wants badly enough. We are pretty much dead last in the pecking order now. It seems inevitable we'll have to find a diamond in the rough. Because this gig has written in the fine print; Job security not included. I'm going to feel bad for the next coach. It will be an absolute career killer to a young head coach new to the NBA coaching ranks. Very dangerous move.
Oh please. Even Michael Malone, who got positively asked to pick up the soap, bounced back and had a new gig the very next season.

And Karl is just a mercy killing.