Ellie DUI
- Thread starter UK_King
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A Dodger?? I knew I liked you. 
(Having him refuse to pitch game 1 obviously didn't hurt...1965 World Series champs regardless.)
(Having him refuse to pitch game 1 obviously didn't hurt...1965 World Series champs regardless.)
Highlight of my young life was to be at Dodger Stadium (we always called it Chavez Ravine when I was a kid) when Koufax pitched a no-hitter against the Giants with Juan Marichal pitching. 
Maybe bit overstated, but when you're crappy plus have this recent track record of organization DUI, other traffic near felonies - NBA laughing stock awaits. I remember in mid-80s hanging around a few Houston Rockets players when they were occasionally in Sac (I've mentioned some names here before). I was born in Houston and befriended them through my friend Reggie Theus who did not drink alcohol nor do drugs - absoultely never. Unfortuntatly, that was not true with some Rockets players - maybe quite a few. One day one of their players mentioned to me that they were "forced" to repeatedly watch NBA produced videos in team meetings on "dangers of illegal drugs." Bill Fitch Rockets coach at the time was very concerned with players on his team who were known or suspected of repeatedy using drugs - primarily weed but also cocaine. I wonder if the NBA produces vids on dangers of alcohol or if that issue is part of the league drug presentations? Most of the "drug addict problem children" on the Rockets were long gone by early and mid-90s when Rockets won their back-to-back rings. Ironically, Mario Elie was a clutch part of those amazing Houston championship teams led by devout Muslim Hakeem Olajuwon with Coach Rudy T at the helm.
Should NBA teams really need to show adults who are being paid millions of dollars educational videos on the dangers of drugs and alcohol? This isn't grade school or even high school. These are grown men. If you don't understand that drugs and alcohol can be dangerous by the time you're 20, or 25, you probably never will.
You definitely underrate the influence of others and over-rate parents. And my point is that others can help a great deal and parents need others to be part of their children's "support."
It was very true in this country until very recently. For example, I was born in 1950 and my extended family was a huge part of my upbringing and all contributed to raising me into the adult I became. Grandparents, aunts, uncles. Cousins were like siblings to me. I also happened to have a family that belonged to a very supportive religious group, that also acted as an extended family. They also had a few couples they were very close to for a long time and they were adults I trusted and learned from. I lived in neighborhoods where all the adults looked out for kids. Other moms, in particular, didn't hesitate to correct my behavior and let my mom know.
Even as recently as the first part of the 20th century, most people lived with or near extended family and all the adults took responsibility for all the kids. In other cases, a church group or close-knit neighborhood all took responsibility.
Yes it has changed. People got mobile, moved far from family or close childhood friends. They moved into neighborhoods where they often don't know their neighbors. Rarely do people have an extensive support group of people ready to step in and help with anything and everything. Its really unfortunate that in less than 100 years, we've gone from parents generally having a large support group helping them raise their children to leaving parents on their own.
Then so many act like its all their fault if things go wrong. What an easy, cheap cop-out for society. And how do you explain the the super-achieving, well-behaved adult who has a drug-addicted sibling in and out of jail, usually out of work and has no qualms about stealing, who were both raised by the same parents?
Of course you can't control others. What I'm saying is adults used to accept the responsibility of at least trying to model good behavior, at least around children. Society actually has a huge vested interest in how children turn out, not just parents.
I think its eminently fair to expect adults to act in a mature, responsible, ethical and legal manner. Or are we expecting children to be better behaved than adults? Or for parents to be better behaved than the average adult?
Having said that, I'm disappointed Mario Elie was arrested for driving under the influence. I also believe he is sorry and embarrassed. He'll be sentenced to whatever the system deems is appropriate and that settles it for me. Hopefully, he won't do it again and maybe some other people will learn from his example and make plans for not driving next time they want to go out and drink. Hope springs eternal.
It was very true in this country until very recently. For example, I was born in 1950 and my extended family was a huge part of my upbringing and all contributed to raising me into the adult I became. Grandparents, aunts, uncles. Cousins were like siblings to me. I also happened to have a family that belonged to a very supportive religious group, that also acted as an extended family. They also had a few couples they were very close to for a long time and they were adults I trusted and learned from. I lived in neighborhoods where all the adults looked out for kids. Other moms, in particular, didn't hesitate to correct my behavior and let my mom know.
Even as recently as the first part of the 20th century, most people lived with or near extended family and all the adults took responsibility for all the kids. In other cases, a church group or close-knit neighborhood all took responsibility.
Yes it has changed. People got mobile, moved far from family or close childhood friends. They moved into neighborhoods where they often don't know their neighbors. Rarely do people have an extensive support group of people ready to step in and help with anything and everything. Its really unfortunate that in less than 100 years, we've gone from parents generally having a large support group helping them raise their children to leaving parents on their own.
Then so many act like its all their fault if things go wrong. What an easy, cheap cop-out for society. And how do you explain the the super-achieving, well-behaved adult who has a drug-addicted sibling in and out of jail, usually out of work and has no qualms about stealing, who were both raised by the same parents?
Of course you can't control others. What I'm saying is adults used to accept the responsibility of at least trying to model good behavior, at least around children. Society actually has a huge vested interest in how children turn out, not just parents.
I think its eminently fair to expect adults to act in a mature, responsible, ethical and legal manner. Or are we expecting children to be better behaved than adults? Or for parents to be better behaved than the average adult?
Having said that, I'm disappointed Mario Elie was arrested for driving under the influence. I also believe he is sorry and embarrassed. He'll be sentenced to whatever the system deems is appropriate and that settles it for me. Hopefully, he won't do it again and maybe some other people will learn from his example and make plans for not driving next time they want to go out and drink. Hope springs eternal.
Hell, you'd think so. But the key word in all this is, "think." Keeping it about the Kings - we have youngest or second youngest team in the league with several players who only played one year of college ball. Heck, several of them couldn't even buy a drink when they got to Sac and we all know youngters tend to make more mistakes in judgement (not that old timers don't slip up too) so constant reminders of many various legal pitfalls that can bite them and sometimes bite really hard seems prudent IMO.
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I made no claims that others can’t influence kids. My points is that parents can’t control what others do. All they can do is teach their kids not to emulate bad behavior.
OK, but expecting family members to provide a positive influence is wholly different from expecting athletes, politicians, actors, etc. who have no relation to your family to provide a positive influence.
I don't agree that there's a collective entity that makes up "society" that has some shared group responsibility. We aren't the Borg. Having said that, I actually agree that things were probably better off when they were like that. That really doesn’t have anything to do with expecting athletes to provide a positive example, though. Unless of course you view athletes as part of your extended family, lol.
But there have always been scandals involving famous and high profile people. When they screw up just like the rest of us, the media/press is waiting to jump on it and make it some huge issue. The way I see it, it really isn’t any of my business or concern what some famous person does. If they make a mistake, that’s for them and their family to deal with. It has no tangible effect on my life.
If kids are emulating bad behavior they’ve seen in celeberties, that points to poor parenting to me.
We do expect that, and that’s why we have laws. Mario Elie did something that was irresponsible and illegal and now he’ll pay the price via the laws we have in place regarding what he did. His obligation to society ends there.
Well that raises an interesting question and opens a whole other discussion. I think that as a society, we do have double standards that allow adults to do many things that we tell kids are wrong.
I think it’s reasonable to expect parents to behave better than adults with no kids. Parents have a responsibility to their kids and fulfilling that responsibility should involve giving up some of the things single people can do. Having kids requires a pretty big personal sacrifice (if you’re going to raise them right). It’s the main reason I don’t have kids. I’m not ready or willing to make those sacrifices or commit to that level of responsibility..
I explain it by individual choice. Some people take accountability for themselves, others don’t. I’ve actually known siblings who turned out drastically different even though they were raised in the same household. At some point, you have to stop assigning blame to external factors for how people ultimately turn out and place the blame on them personally.
OK, but expecting family members to provide a positive influence is wholly different from expecting athletes, politicians, actors, etc. who have no relation to your family to provide a positive influence.
I don't agree that there's a collective entity that makes up "society" that has some shared group responsibility. We aren't the Borg. Having said that, I actually agree that things were probably better off when they were like that. That really doesn’t have anything to do with expecting athletes to provide a positive example, though. Unless of course you view athletes as part of your extended family, lol.
But there have always been scandals involving famous and high profile people. When they screw up just like the rest of us, the media/press is waiting to jump on it and make it some huge issue. The way I see it, it really isn’t any of my business or concern what some famous person does. If they make a mistake, that’s for them and their family to deal with. It has no tangible effect on my life.
If kids are emulating bad behavior they’ve seen in celeberties, that points to poor parenting to me.
We do expect that, and that’s why we have laws. Mario Elie did something that was irresponsible and illegal and now he’ll pay the price via the laws we have in place regarding what he did. His obligation to society ends there.
Well that raises an interesting question and opens a whole other discussion. I think that as a society, we do have double standards that allow adults to do many things that we tell kids are wrong.
I think it’s reasonable to expect parents to behave better than adults with no kids. Parents have a responsibility to their kids and fulfilling that responsibility should involve giving up some of the things single people can do. Having kids requires a pretty big personal sacrifice (if you’re going to raise them right). It’s the main reason I don’t have kids. I’m not ready or willing to make those sacrifices or commit to that level of responsibility..
I explain it by individual choice. Some people take accountability for themselves, others don’t. I’ve actually known siblings who turned out drastically different even though they were raised in the same household. At some point, you have to stop assigning blame to external factors for how people ultimately turn out and place the blame on them personally.
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I don't think it would matter. It's not that these guys don't know when they're doing something wrong. It's that when people have a lot of money, especially when they have a level of fame too, they tend to develop a sense that they're above the law. They have sufficient money to pay for the necessary legal defense, bail, etc. they may incur so those things don't have the same level of deterrence that they do for the "average Joe".
In very limited PT so far, he seems to be doing quite well. Some have predicted that he'd lead the NBDL in blocks, and that definitely could happen.
Average per 48 minutes: 22.8 points, 13.2 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 8.0 blocks
His shooting's been lukewarm (38% FG, 1-2 FT), but I don't find that very worrisome 38 minutes into his career.
He has games today and tomorrow.
Average per 48 minutes: 22.8 points, 13.2 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 8.0 blocks
His shooting's been lukewarm (38% FG, 1-2 FT), but I don't find that very worrisome 38 minutes into his career.
He has games today and tomorrow.
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You can get stats here:
http://www.nba.com/dleague/reno/statistics/
Lots of ex-Kings on the roster (Ewing Jr., Landry, Sloan, Whiteside) and of course coach Muss
http://www.nba.com/dleague/reno/statistics/
Lots of ex-Kings on the roster (Ewing Jr., Landry, Sloan, Whiteside) and of course coach Muss
It's really, really, really disappointing. I've followed Elie for a very long time, from the time Nellie brought him in from Italy to play on the Warriors. I thought he was one of the good guys. And he is one of the good guys. That just makes it more disappointing.
If he's convicted, I'm afraid I think they should fire him. No suspension; fire him.
Look, these are young, crazy-talented, egotistical, macho young men, and the Kings/Maloofs aren't doing enough to get it through to these players. If the Kings have to open an intervention/awareness unit, fine. But if you look at the "punishment" others have received, it's not enough.
At first, I didn't really care about George Maloof, until I read the lvrj article. He was doing 72 in a 45 zone. That's not funny.
Just in case you don't believe the 72 in a 45 part: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/nov/02/palms-owner-george-maloof-formally-charged-dui/
So even if it looks like the management is overreacting, I say overreact. If it saves a life, go for it.
If he's convicted, I'm afraid I think they should fire him. No suspension; fire him.
Look, these are young, crazy-talented, egotistical, macho young men, and the Kings/Maloofs aren't doing enough to get it through to these players. If the Kings have to open an intervention/awareness unit, fine. But if you look at the "punishment" others have received, it's not enough.
At first, I didn't really care about George Maloof, until I read the lvrj article. He was doing 72 in a 45 zone. That's not funny.
Just in case you don't believe the 72 in a 45 part: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/nov/02/palms-owner-george-maloof-formally-charged-dui/
So even if it looks like the management is overreacting, I say overreact. If it saves a life, go for it.
Actually we really aren't that far apart. I'm just tired of everybody all blaming parents when kids go bad. Its a lot more complex than that. And, as a responsible, decent adult, I always try not to set a bad example for kids, including those to whom I'm not related.
By the way, I talked about my extended family, but I could name plenty of adults who had a big influence on shaping me, from a few really great teachers to people like Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Jr, Ghandi, etc. We all look around to find people we would like to emulate in some way, even if parents remain the most important. Of course, I know some people that were inspired to be better, by choosing not to emulate a parent(s.) They usually had to conciously look for other role models.
By the way, I talked about my extended family, but I could name plenty of adults who had a big influence on shaping me, from a few really great teachers to people like Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Jr, Ghandi, etc. We all look around to find people we would like to emulate in some way, even if parents remain the most important. Of course, I know some people that were inspired to be better, by choosing not to emulate a parent(s.) They usually had to conciously look for other role models.
You really think that when the owner gets one, coach gets one that maybe he would think twice before driving when drunk? It was not a lapse in judgement it was laziness and stupidity on his part not to call a cab. I am sure this was drilled into their heads after the second one and he went out and did it anyway.. Friggin idiot if you ask me.