Draft defensive players with our later picks?

K

KF8

Starter
I believe if the Kings ever want to become an adequate defensive team, they will have to get some defensive players. If you think about it, almost every successful team has that defensive guy who could guard multiple positions. Examples would be guys like Doug Christie, Shane Battier, James Posey, Ariza, etc. While I think Andres Nocioni is one of our better defenders, it won't hurt to have more of his kind on our team. We will need all the defense we can get, not just in the wing positions but also in the paint. If we are able to get good defensive guys in the wing positions and bigs who could defend down low it will pay big dividends near future. With that said, who are some of the better defensive players that could possibly be in the 2x, 3x, draft position that we could get?
 
I know this is somewhat crazy to say, but I feel we are just a few pieces away from a decent defensive team. Andres Nocioni is a pretty good defender and to a much less extent so is Cisco. We also have Hawes who could surprisingly block some shots and Thompson who I see as more of a scrappy type defender. With a few more pieces of defensive guys along with a coach who knows defense, we may very well become an average to good defensive team.
 
One of the biggest defensive issues facing the Kings that I see is the inability to do proper rotations and switches on defense. With Hawes and JT that is understandable and compounded by the two "kids" playing at the same time so much.

Noce and Cisco are probably the best defenders followed by McCants. But the main problem are the two big "kids" down low. There is not another team in the league starting two bigs with 1 and 0 yrs experience. So that is tough and necessary. Hopefully they will learn. JT in summer league for sure. It will take another full year to see the defensive fruits of their labor.

When Donte is in he hasn't a clue on "D". Beno has a clue but does not (yet?) have the quickness nor anticipation to keep in front of his man. Again, if the bigs learn to switch and rotate on dribble penetrations, it will go a giant step to increasing overall team D.

But you are right that one or two defenders with later picks or as FA's would be helpful. BJax is more of a menace and agressor to other PG's as his D but would be nice to get a 6-8 version of him. Wonder how good "D" Griffin can play his first year in the NBA?????
 
Terrence Williams is another guy with a questionable shot who looks to have good defensive potential at the wing positions. I don't think he'll last to Houston's pick, but I wouldn't hesitate if he did.
 
Would help, but the fact of the matter is you don't become a good defensive team by having good defenders as your 9th-12th men. If we're ever going to become adequate, let alone good, we are going to need multiple strong defenders, including a defensive leader, in our Top 8. And its a longshot that we draft a major rotation player at #25-#30.
 
Bricklayer said:
Would help, but the fact of the matter is you don't become a good defensive team by having good defenders as your 9th-12th men. If we're ever going to become adequate, let alone good, we are going to need multiple strong defenders, including a defensive leader, in our Top 8. And its a longshot that we draft a major rotation player at #25-#30.
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Well either way a lot of guys in the 25-30 range won't get much playing time and they may take some time to develope. The good thing is that our roster next year will be pretty thin and our rookies will have the chance to play and prove themselves faster than expected. If not one or maybe both of our later picks could develope to be the top 8 players on our roster. It is a lot less of a long shot than you think though since we do have 2 picks at about the same range which will give us more of a chance to get the guy. There are also a lot of serviceable players who came around that range according to recent drafts. Lets just pray that Petrie draft the right guys.
 
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Capt. Factorial said:
Terrence Williams is another guy with a questionable shot who looks to have good defensive potential at the wing positions. I don't think he'll last to Houston's pick, but I wouldn't hesitate if he did.
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That would be great! I also agree with SacKings - I like Danny Green too. I'd prefer Williams over him though - he would be a steal late.
 
CruzDude said:
There is not another team in the league starting two bigs with 1 and 0 yrs experience.
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Off the top of my head, I know that NJN have been starting Ryan Anderson (R, PF) and Brook Lopez (R, C) lately. There may be others, but that one sprang to mind. OKC and Portland are starting veteran centers, but both teams are otherwise young, and Durant and Green are a good example of how a pair of kids in the front can work really well. Our kids just don't happen to be that far along. :-/ We need to emphasise development more.
 
fnordius said:
Off the top of my head, I know that NJN have been starting Ryan Anderson (R, PF) and Brook Lopez (R, C) lately. There may be others, but that one sprang to mind. OKC and Portland are starting veteran centers, but both teams are otherwise young, and Durant and Green are a good example of how a pair of kids in the front can work really well. Our kids just don't happen to be that far along. :-/ We need to emphasise development more.
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Memphis starts two rookies as well.

The overarching point would be that Spencer and JT should get better -- they almost have to as they are miserable now. But you don't go from miserable to good by the tiem you reach teh NBA. They may become adequate. Neither will ever intimidate. When you see a Tim Duncan or a Dikembe Mutumbo or a Dwight Howard or even a Greg Oden enter the league, they enter it already defensively oriented and defensively forceful. You don't learn that as a pro. Its either your game at the pro level or its not. You can improve it, refine it, but not grow it.
 
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Just looking through our roster, do you guys think we have the potential to become good defensively? Something I have always pondered is how do good defensive teams become good defensively? I think it would be a combination of having a coach who preaches defense and having defensive players. If we are going to contend for a title, defense is something we will have to look to get better at.
 
Bricklayer said:
Would help, but the fact of the matter is you don't become a good defensive team by having good defenders as your 9th-12th men. If we're ever going to become adequate, let alone good, we are going to need multiple strong defenders, including a defensive leader, in our Top 8. And its a longshot that we draft a major rotation player at #25-#30.
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Very true.

We have Nocioni and Garcia, and to a lesser extent Hawes, and Thompson as promising support players to give this team adequate defense, but not good enough to give the team an "image" of a defensive team. What we need is the guy who would be a defensive leader and who would give this team the image of a defensive team - ala Ben Wallace. Then and only then I can say we can be a serious contending team.

Griffin and Rubio?

No.

Thabeet?

Hmmm.

#5 - Hawes ( 7' 0" ) 24 min, Thabeet ( 7' 3" ) 24 min
#4 - Thompson ( 6' 11" ) 36 min, Hawes ( 7' 0" ) 12 min
#3 - Greene ( 6' 10" ) 24 min, Nocioni ( 6' 7" ) 24 min
#2 - Martin ( 6' 7" ) 36 min, Garcia ( 6' 7" ) 12 min
#1 - Udrih ( 6' 3" ) 24 min, Garcia ( 6' 7" ) 12 min, Houston Pick, 12 min

Lakers' frontline of Bynum, Gasol, and Odom better watch out.
 
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I would love to get a player like a Ron Artest minus the crazy. In combination with a defense minded center to come off the bench and a decent perimeter PG defender I think we could be at least decent on defense.
 
How about Jeff Adrien?

Can't shoot FTs, undersized, and is a senior, but for a 12th man at least he could be our enforcer. These team needs an injection of toughness and meanness. For a fourth or fifth big man I think all we can ask is that they get the most for their 6 fouls.
 
Jrue Holiday can be a lock down defensive PG with the right "seasoning" and coach. If he slips that far, he might be the pick to boost the D:). Thabeet and Holiday might not look pretty offensively, but that would revamp the Kings defense and fill out their weakest areas. The Kings had no problem scoring last season, it's cutting down turnovers, and stopping the opponents that was lacking...

PG: Beno Udrih/Jrue Holiday/Bobby Jackson (Player/Coach?)
SG: Kevin Martin/Francisco Garcia
SF: Andres Nocioni/Francisco Garcia/Dante Greene
PF: Jason Thompson/Ike Diogu?
C: Spencer Hawes/Hasheem Thabeet

Now that team could grow into a defensive weapon. Get a Jeff Van Gundy, and the OPPG would drastically diminish...However, so would the pace of play:(.
 
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If Holliday slips that far, we HAVE to grab him. What a steal that'd be. But I'd say if he isn't promised at least a few picks out of the lottery, then he'll go back to UCLA for another year
 
Bricklayer said:
Memphis starts two rookies as well.

The overarching point would be that Spencer and JT should get better -- they almost have to as they are miserable now. But you don't go from miserable to good by the tiem you reach teh NBA. They may become adequate. Neither will ever intimidate. When you see a Tim Duncan or a Dikembe Mutumbo or a Dwight Howard or even a Greg Oden enter the league, they enter it already defensively oriented and defensively forceful. You don't learn that as a pro. Its either your game at the pro level or its not. You can improve it, refine it, but not grow it.
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I think it behoove's me to point out that Thompson, although in a lesser conference, was the defensive player of the year, two years in a row. So, using your premise, he should be able to adjust and become a decent to good defensive player. Its a little harder to get a read on Hawes coming out of college, since he only played one year. He was absolutely abused by Brook Lopez in their first meeting. But in their second meeting it was a reversal of fortune's.
 
bajaden said:
I think it behoove's me to point out that Thompson, although in a lesser conference, was the defensive player of the year, two years in a row. So, using your premise, he should be able to adjust and become a decent to good defensive player. Its a little harder to get a read on Hawes coming out of college, since he only played one year. He was absolutely abused by Brook Lopez in their first meeting. But in their second meeting it was a reversal of fortune's.
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Hawes was also seriously ill a big chunk of his one year in college and lost a bunch of weight. That makes it even harder to judge.
 
bajaden said:
I think it behoove's me to point out that Thompson, although in a lesser conference, was the defensive player of the year, two years in a row. So, using your premise, he should be able to adjust and become a decent to good defensive player. Its a little harder to get a read on Hawes coming out of college, since he only played one year. He was absolutely abused by Brook Lopez in their first meeting. But in their second meeting it was a reversal of fortune's.
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You did not note my last 2nd to last sentence: at the pro level

Jason may or may not have been dominant defensively at tiny Rider U. -- after seeing him its hard to believe he was even there. But if he was, it was surely because he was Thabeet to the rest of them. A giant in a league of 6'7" Cs. And that doesn't ever have to translate. Indeed, while the effort is unquestionable, his defensive fundamentals were often really poor this year. He's never going to be a shotblocker at this level -- he blocked them at a slower pace than Brad. And he's got a lot of work to do just to be an average, non hackaholic man defender as well.
 
Bricklayer said:
You did not note my last 2nd to last sentence: at the pro level

Jason may or may not have been dominant defensively at tiny Rider U. -- after seeing him its hard to believe he was even there. But if he was, it was surely because he was Thabeet to the rest of them. A giant in a league of 6'7" Cs. And that doesn't ever have to translate. Indeed, while the effort is unquestionable, his defensive fundamentals were often really poor this year. He's never going to be a shotblocker at this level -- he blocked them at a slower pace than Brad. And he's got a lot of work to do just to be an average, non hackaholic man defender as well.
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Just thought I'd throw a fly into the ointment.:) I don't think he was as bad as you do. In the beginning yes. But I thought he improved as the season went on. His man defense got better. He didn't leave his feet. He did good shows on the pick and roll. Did he get caught in bad switches at times? Yes! Sometimes it was his fault, and sometimes it was Beno's or Jackson's fault. Mostly Beno, who must have enjoyed watching JT try to guard Chris Paul. Better him than me!

There's no doubt that he needs to work on a lot of things, but I do think he has the ability to be a pretty good defender. Its just going to take time and a good coach with a system. He's a good two years away from being a semi-finished product.
 
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