Done Deal - Bulls and Kings - Salmons and Miller Traded
- Thread starter Joel
- Start date
Arby's Roast Beef
Starter
We've been smoked talentwise in our last three major trades (the Webber trade, the Bibby trade, and now this Miller/Salmons trade), and while it's understandable given that we've been trending towards rebuilding ever since the start of the first trade, what is unacceptable here is that we didn't even get any promising young players and/or draft picks in return. We took on Chicago's possibly worst contract (Nocioni's deal goes up until 2012)--even John has fewer years and less $$$, and Miller has far fewer years, so suffice to say we took on the worst contract in this deal.
Not only that, Nocioni's production isn't even on par with John's or even Brad's--he's already 29, probably peaked as a 11-13 ppg, 4 rpg type guy--and his game doesn't really help a rebuilding team. He's pretty unique in that he combines the combination of scrap scoring, scrap defense and three point range, but he brings the black hole lack of passing we don't need, is ridiculously manicly foul prone (can't emphasize this more), and is a bit of a tweener depending on who you ask. He's better than KT, that's for sure, with more skills and more heart, and gives us some much needed defense, but here's where expectations come into play--because we lost two of our better scorers, if we expect him to recover some of John's 18 ppg he probably can't do that. He's a little too out of control for my tastes as well--sort of like Ginobili, but definitely not as talented.
Drew Gooden won't be here after this year--he's a career journeyman who will always find a place in the league as a scrapper with semi-decent offensive skills, but that always translates better into playoff teams than for rebuilding teams. At least he's an expiring contract, and he's better than KT and Mikki Moore and much younger, but as another big man with potential who may interfere with our young player's minutes--I have some doubts. But it was right to trade for him in this scenario.
Cedric Simmons is only 22 but seems like he's been on a lot of teams already; clearly no one saw potential in him, but here's a case where one man's trash may be another man's treasure. He was a lottery pick, and had a solid foundation of shotblocking skills coming out of college, but he appears to be pretty raw. We're already investing in Hawes and Thompson, so it's hard to see where Simmons fits in now that even Diogu is on our team (and Diogu is clearly more talented). I think Williams, by virtue of having been on our team longer, will probably pry the remaining minutes anyway, so I don't expect us to pick up Simmons' option, sadly for him. At least it's a promising young player, but we're loaded at his position.
Diogu really intrigues me here--I can't believe Michael Ruffin was traded straight up for him, because the talent disparity is pretty big. I recall when Diogu was given some chances at GS and he put up stellar offensive games--I remember a 13-15 shooting night against Detroit several years back--and he has some rebounding talent as well. Undersized bigs--Carl Landry, Brandon Bass, Leon Powe, Millsap, Maxiell--are en vogue in the league, and I think Diogu can fit right in and replenish some of the offense we lost when Salmons and Miller gone. In fact, of the four players we traded for, he might be the best offensive player of the bunch--he's got a great feel for scoring around the basket, has a mid range J, and can hit free throws. I wonder how we're going to partition minutes for him, with Thompson and Hawes in front, but with Miller I expect him to get 15-20 good minutes off the bench and hopefully show some scoring prowess. Mikki's getting less time anyways, and I expect Shelden Williams and Donte Greene to retain the rest of the minutes.
So overall, I like Diogu, Gooden is sort of "bleh", Nocioni's current state+potential+contract is horrible, and Simmons will unfortunately never get much of a chance. I sort of wish we could get rid of Beno in another deal and taken on Hinrich instead of Nocioni, because Hinrich is an upgrade even though he's past the age of players we should really covet. I'm a little surprised how we didn't pull off Tyrus Thomas and/or Joakim Noah from a trade like this (I'd rather take an athletic freak over Diogu) or Thabo Sefolosha (although with Garcia around it's a little understandable, but I like him). Chicago really upgraded here, trading little of consequence to really become a playoff team, but we couldn't even pry away one of their better young players or first round picks, and had to take on the worst contract. So I think we could've done better, even though we finally moved two of our better players who had to go.
Not only that, Nocioni's production isn't even on par with John's or even Brad's--he's already 29, probably peaked as a 11-13 ppg, 4 rpg type guy--and his game doesn't really help a rebuilding team. He's pretty unique in that he combines the combination of scrap scoring, scrap defense and three point range, but he brings the black hole lack of passing we don't need, is ridiculously manicly foul prone (can't emphasize this more), and is a bit of a tweener depending on who you ask. He's better than KT, that's for sure, with more skills and more heart, and gives us some much needed defense, but here's where expectations come into play--because we lost two of our better scorers, if we expect him to recover some of John's 18 ppg he probably can't do that. He's a little too out of control for my tastes as well--sort of like Ginobili, but definitely not as talented.
Drew Gooden won't be here after this year--he's a career journeyman who will always find a place in the league as a scrapper with semi-decent offensive skills, but that always translates better into playoff teams than for rebuilding teams. At least he's an expiring contract, and he's better than KT and Mikki Moore and much younger, but as another big man with potential who may interfere with our young player's minutes--I have some doubts. But it was right to trade for him in this scenario.
Cedric Simmons is only 22 but seems like he's been on a lot of teams already; clearly no one saw potential in him, but here's a case where one man's trash may be another man's treasure. He was a lottery pick, and had a solid foundation of shotblocking skills coming out of college, but he appears to be pretty raw. We're already investing in Hawes and Thompson, so it's hard to see where Simmons fits in now that even Diogu is on our team (and Diogu is clearly more talented). I think Williams, by virtue of having been on our team longer, will probably pry the remaining minutes anyway, so I don't expect us to pick up Simmons' option, sadly for him. At least it's a promising young player, but we're loaded at his position.
Diogu really intrigues me here--I can't believe Michael Ruffin was traded straight up for him, because the talent disparity is pretty big. I recall when Diogu was given some chances at GS and he put up stellar offensive games--I remember a 13-15 shooting night against Detroit several years back--and he has some rebounding talent as well. Undersized bigs--Carl Landry, Brandon Bass, Leon Powe, Millsap, Maxiell--are en vogue in the league, and I think Diogu can fit right in and replenish some of the offense we lost when Salmons and Miller gone. In fact, of the four players we traded for, he might be the best offensive player of the bunch--he's got a great feel for scoring around the basket, has a mid range J, and can hit free throws. I wonder how we're going to partition minutes for him, with Thompson and Hawes in front, but with Miller I expect him to get 15-20 good minutes off the bench and hopefully show some scoring prowess. Mikki's getting less time anyways, and I expect Shelden Williams and Donte Greene to retain the rest of the minutes.
So overall, I like Diogu, Gooden is sort of "bleh", Nocioni's current state+potential+contract is horrible, and Simmons will unfortunately never get much of a chance. I sort of wish we could get rid of Beno in another deal and taken on Hinrich instead of Nocioni, because Hinrich is an upgrade even though he's past the age of players we should really covet. I'm a little surprised how we didn't pull off Tyrus Thomas and/or Joakim Noah from a trade like this (I'd rather take an athletic freak over Diogu) or Thabo Sefolosha (although with Garcia around it's a little understandable, but I like him). Chicago really upgraded here, trading little of consequence to really become a playoff team, but we couldn't even pry away one of their better young players or first round picks, and had to take on the worst contract. So I think we could've done better, even though we finally moved two of our better players who had to go.
Heuge
Starter
I agree on 1 out of 7.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
I don't see why everyone is so down on this trade. I am more than happy to never have to see salmons or miller suit up again for the kings. I think JT continues to start as he and hawas get more consistent playing time. The only guy in the deal I would want to keep is nocioni. Everyone else acquired in the trade we can wave after the season. Nocioni brings us an above average defender, a physical presence, energy everytime he steps on he court, and a legitimate 3pt threat. His intensity will rub off on the other players. Having nocioni instead of salmons will improve the ball movement on offense, help the spacing, and bring more intensity on defense. Gooden is the player I don't want, and he'll be gone after 28 games, hopefully.
Henkel
Starter
Not a chance. We are cutting cost, and you don't do that by adding salary.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
Douby Could Be Gone
Amick
Amick
beb0p
Starter
Actually, you only *disagree* with 1 out of the 7. The rest you either agree or didn't think it matters.
We already have now two new Kenny Thomas -Nocioni and Udrih-, when the real Kenny is still here. Nice.
Three expirings and a terrible contract. People wanted to move Miller and Salmons for expirings/b-prospects/low 1sts, not for Kenny Thomas 2.0. I'm sure if someone posted this trade on the board some days ago, it would have been bashed.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
you be the one to start the thread because i started Reggies.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
Because we're rebuilding and this adds nothing to our rebuilding effort. Nocioni is an ugly contract, and a worthless player to a rebuilding team. Hawes could've gotten more PT just by benching Miller, who apparently wasn't going to garner anything valuable in a trade anyways so it wouldn't hurt to bench him.
Gary
All-Star
VF;
I never said get rid of them for nothing. I was actually either wanting a load of expirings or picks.. As with most of the other fans here..... We didn't really get either..
This was a trade for the Maloofs pure and simple. This trade has nothing to do with the fans. I actually like Nocioni as a Peja lite who can rebound a bit better. But I don't like his contract.
I never said get rid of them for nothing. I was actually either wanting a load of expirings or picks.. As with most of the other fans here..... We didn't really get either..
This was a trade for the Maloofs pure and simple. This trade has nothing to do with the fans. I actually like Nocioni as a Peja lite who can rebound a bit better. But I don't like his contract.
I agree with everyone else on the board who thinks this trade stinks. If taking on Nocioni's crap deal was the best they could do this year, they should have just held onto Miller until next year.
I'm no fan of Salmons - never liked it when they signed him in the first place - but I'd rather have him around than Nocioni. I can hardly wait to hear Petrie and the Maloofs try to put a positive spin on what Nocioni is going to bring to the team.
I just don't get why they would add his contract to the existing two headed monster of Kenny Thomas and Beno.
I'm no fan of Salmons - never liked it when they signed him in the first place - but I'd rather have him around than Nocioni. I can hardly wait to hear Petrie and the Maloofs try to put a positive spin on what Nocioni is going to bring to the team.
I just don't get why they would add his contract to the existing two headed monster of Kenny Thomas and Beno.
PFFFT!!
Starter
Had to come in here and say this, but Petrie probably took the best offer on the table. Realistically guys, come on now, its this or keep Brad and Salmons. Also, the trade deadline is tomorrow and we may do another minor one for some picks or even more cash. The Portland deal is set to give the kings 1 mill in cash. The question now is, who would come here and play with such a bad team? Noc would be a good backup, but I agree that hes not a starter.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
Yeah, to say we wanted them gone at all costs is a strawman at best.
NoBonus
Starter
So what is the Kings roster now (Before waiving anyone)
PG: Beno, Bjax, BBrown, Cassell
SG: Martin, Cisco, Douby
SF: Nocioni, Greene
PF: JT, Gooden, Diogu, Simmons, Moore, K9, Sheldon
C: Hawes
Please, oh, please may another trade go down... either Beno or any of K9, Moore, or Sheldon (though Sheldon is expiring, it would be odd).
PG: Beno, Bjax, BBrown, Cassell
SG: Martin, Cisco, Douby
SF: Nocioni, Greene
PF: JT, Gooden, Diogu, Simmons, Moore, K9, Sheldon
C: Hawes
Please, oh, please may another trade go down... either Beno or any of K9, Moore, or Sheldon (though Sheldon is expiring, it would be odd).
=LarryLegend=
Starter
kings have always wanted gooden.
I like nocioni and gooden. atleast gooden can rebound.
with no roster spots and we trade 4 for 2.....makes me think Douby and Moore for MacCants will follow.
I like nocioni and gooden. atleast gooden can rebound.
with no roster spots and we trade 4 for 2.....makes me think Douby and Moore for MacCants will follow.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
They've always wanted him for twenty-something games in a guaranteed losing season?
Henkel
Starter
I doubt this was the best deal on the table. Maybe the best deal for Miller and Salmons but if what is reported is true, 12 teams interested in Salmons, then more could of been had. That would of required keeping Miller for another year and thus paying him, which the Maloofs weren't willing to do. Brad could have been more of a asset next year with his huge expiring contract and the great free agent class of 2010. This move was about money first and basketball second. Thats say something about this franchise.
Last edited:
barndoggie
G-League
i'm trying to find the positive in this trade and i can't the only thing i can think of is narocia (or how ever you spell it ) is in the wrong system for his game but that is streching it
One and Done
Bench
Bad trade altogether, would have rather we did nothing at all.
I get the feeling that Petrie made the trade for sake of making a trade, and to save money.
Has he truly lost his way, as indiciated by poor trades & FA signings over the last few years? Or have the Maloofs been interfering? Whatever it is, someone needs to stop making these poor decisions...
Nocioni really is the next Kenny Thomas, he's been in rapid decline for two years and he won't be tradeable. Now we have two overpaid roleplayers with long contracts at the 3 (Nocioni, Garcia), and one seriously overpaid MLE bust starting at 1. Also, I'm upset that we didn't get an additional draft pick...at all.
There's still time to trade Beno...but at this rate, should we dig ourselves further into the hole?
I get the feeling that Petrie made the trade for sake of making a trade, and to save money.
Has he truly lost his way, as indiciated by poor trades & FA signings over the last few years? Or have the Maloofs been interfering? Whatever it is, someone needs to stop making these poor decisions...
Nocioni really is the next Kenny Thomas, he's been in rapid decline for two years and he won't be tradeable. Now we have two overpaid roleplayers with long contracts at the 3 (Nocioni, Garcia), and one seriously overpaid MLE bust starting at 1. Also, I'm upset that we didn't get an additional draft pick...at all.
There's still time to trade Beno...but at this rate, should we dig ourselves further into the hole?
Amory
Bench
I think I am going to be sick...
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Check the personnel forum. When the rumour surfaced, everyone was hoping and praying it wouldn't go down.
I find it funny that some people will happily accept anything for no apparent reason at all, even if it is a completely stupid concept (like this trade).
bench_blob
Bench
You must be a John Salmons fan. I cannot stress how much we will NOT miss John Salmons. The most selfish player I have ever witnessed.
Brad Miller was serviceable, but the negatives outweighed the positives incrementally as the season progressed.
This is not a horrible trade. Change is good. If anything, this trade signals front office disdain for veterans with zero leadership and less passion. Nothing against either of those guys, personally, but professionally as ball players. ......
GOOD BYE and GOOD RIDDANCE.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Poll
