Jake Fisher article: Sabonis extension expected to be around 4years/120 million

[sactowndog]

The thing Kuzma brings is more athletic ability and this team can most certainly use that. As for the other stuff, I agree for the most part, but he's not a complete negative, he's just not truly great at any one thing. In comparison to Barnes, I do think the Kings need a more aggressive scoring personality on the roster so in that way Kuzma could be a much needed addition as well. I've brought up some of the comparison numbers between he and Grant and in looking at a bunch of the actual numbers, yes, I would pick Grant as well.

As for Holmes, I specifically said WORST VALUE contract. I never said Holmes was the worst contract. I agree he isn't. Clearly he isn't because he was traded. Overpaid backup C's are the worst value in the league if they can only play that position and I was trying to be as clear as possible that I was relating it specifically to him being a backup C. I did so multiple times. Holmes was the 17th highest paid C at one point, and the only backup paid that much. If you still don't understand my point, then there's no need for further discussion on it. When you extract words from sentences it's very easy to miss points. It's also easy when you take one individual sentence from a post and focus on that while ignoring the explanation that followed it.

I think we are going to be shocked at Holmes in Dallas. Richaun’s problem was his spot was the free throw area. That made him unplayable with Fox who wanted to pull up at the elbow and unplayable with Sabonis who can’t spread the floor. When you are 2+2=1 with the teams two best players you don’t see the floor.

but a Dallas line-up is completely different. Luka and Kyrie fit with Richaun like Hali did. We could well see a Dallas line-up of

Kyrie
Hardy
Prosper
Luka
Holmes

do quite well next year….. it might be painful to watch. 4 of the 5 were gifts from the Kings…

 

[SacTownKid]

I think we are going to be shocked at Holmes in Dallas. Richaun’s problem was his spot was the free throw area. That made him unplayable with Fox who wanted to pull up at the elbow and unplayable with Sabonis who can’t spread the floor. When you are 2+2=1 with the teams two best players you don’t see the floor.

but a Dallas line-up is completely different. Luka and Kyrie fit with Richaun like Hali did. We could well see a Dallas line-up of

Kyrie
Hardy
Prosper
Luka
Holmes

do quite well next year….. it might be painful to watch. 4 of the 5 were gifts from the Kings…

Yeah, I think Holmes is going to mysteriously "return" as well. He should have went to Dallas originally anyway. As a starter he's probably slightly overpaid, as a backup that doesn't play he's a cap killer.

 

[reptilexcq2]

I recall there being probably as much of an outcry when we got HB. Fact is that HB has his best years in Sacramento.

I expect similar sort of thing with Kuzma. Efficiency will go up simply because he will get more open looks in our offense. He would give us more length and rebounding than we currently have. Better passer and creator. Defense is pretty much even but in a team system he could do his bit.

I don't see how Kuzma is not an upgrade (talent and productivity wise) on HB. Not to mention that he is closer aligned to our core in terms of age. Forget about the passion or personality. Forget about the inefficiency on Wizards given that he was asked to do more that what he is really capable of (similar to HB before coming to Sacramento).

I expect the scoring average to drop but efficiency and shooting percentages to rise.

You're sorely mistaken. How is Kuzma better than Barnes? Not in terms of 3pt %, not free throw %, not much difference in steal and block shots, not in offensive rebound. With the exception of bit higher on assist but that's because Barnes were reduced to standing around in the Kings offense. However, Kuzma turnover is at least 3.0 per game compare to Barnes of 1. Sure, Kuzma help a bit with rebounding....but is that enough? Total amount of free throws at the line is no match against Barnes.

The point is Kuzma is not going to improve the Kings on anything. If anything, he probably make them worst off. At least when the Kings isn't getting anything going offensively, they have Barnes to rely on to attack and draw fouls. Remember, the Kings weakness is size, length, rebounding and blocking shots in the paint....they're still not going to solve that problem with Kuzma in the lineup. If you're going to sign Kuzma and ignore your weakness, you might as well sign Cam Johnson to make the Kings even more explosive offensively.

Kuzma

Barnes

Kuzma

Barnes

 

[LPKingsFan]

I think we are going to be shocked at Holmes in Dallas. Richaun’s problem was his spot was the free throw area. That made him unplayable with Fox who wanted to pull up at the elbow and unplayable with Sabonis who can’t spread the floor. When you are 2+2=1 with the teams two best players you don’t see the floor.

but a Dallas line-up is completely different. Luka and Kyrie fit with Richaun like Hali did. We could well see a Dallas line-up of

Kyrie
Hardy
Prosper
Luka
Holmes

do quite well next year….. it might be painful to watch. 4 of the 5 were gifts from the Kings…

Never understood why they couldn’t get that dynamic going with Monk’s playmaking off the bench, though.

 

[iowamcnabb]

we keep forgetting that Holmes was good before Halliburton was drafted. Tyrese did not create Jr Uh Oh. Rich had plenty of success working with Fox

 

[sactowndog]

Never understood why they couldn’t get that dynamic going with Monk’s playmaking off the bench, though.

because Sabonis was on the floor. Mike tried to keep Fox or Sabonis on the floor at all times and both were oil and water with Richaun.

 

[sactowndog]

we keep forgetting that Holmes was good before Halliburton was drafted. Tyrese did not create Jr Uh Oh. Rich had plenty of success working with Fox

right but Fox didn’t have that elbow jumper as much as he used it this year. It was the high percentage elbow jumper that took Fox to the next level and killed Richaun.

 

[iowamcnabb]

right but Fox didn’t have that elbow jumper as much as he used it this year. It was the high percentage elbow jumper that took Fox to the next level and killed Richaun.

I hope he succeeds in Dallas but it’s possible the game changed enough that his style isn’t relevant anymore. Same thing happened to a comparable player in Trez Harrell

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

Barnes will always have value even if he is undervalued here. 15 points a game with great efficiency, durable, versatile and willing to play any role will be in demand. My only hang up is the length of the deal. A 4 year deal becomes harder to move.

Barnes is criminally underrated even by our own fanbase imo. In addition to his solid and consistent stat lines, there's so much he does that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. He knows how to win a game down the stretch by doing things that bring the momentum back in our favor. Most obvious thing he can do seemingly at will is get to the line in the fourth quarter to stop the other team's run. I've seen this so many times I just come to expect it. He's the level headed vet out there that steadies the team and gets them over the finish line. That stuff is invaluable.

He will not be short on offers. Just depends on if Monte has him in our plans going forward. If not, it's not because he's not good enough. We could win a championship with him in the starting lineup.

 

[Kingz19]

we keep forgetting that Holmes was good before Halliburton was drafted. Tyrese did not create Jr Uh Oh. Rich had plenty of success working with Fox

I don’t have any stats but if memory serves Bogdan had the big connection with Holmes before Tyrese. Not Fox.

I think Richaun will do very well in Dallas too. Unloading him in particular shouldn’t be anything the Kings come to regret. He just didn’t fit the Kings anymore. I just hope we don’t miss that pick a couple of years later and the money we freed up makes a big impact in the next week.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Barnes is criminally underrated even by our own fanbase imo. In addition to his solid and consistent stat lines, there's so much he does that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. He knows how to win a game down the stretch by doing things that bring the momentum back in our favor. Most obvious thing he can do seemingly at will is get to the line in the fourth quarter to stop the other team's run. I've seen this so many times I just come to expect it. He's the level headed vet out there that steadies the team and gets them over the finish line. That stuff is invaluable.

He will not be short on offers. Just depends on if Monte has him in our plans going forward. If not, it's not because he's not good enough. We could win a championship with him in the starting lineup.

I agree. If we view HB as the 5th option on the team I don’t think we would be looking to replace him. All we can do is trust Monte on this one like it or not haha

 

[Turgenev]

I agree. If we view HB as the 5th option on the team I don’t think we would be looking to replace him. All we can do is trust Monte on this one like it or not haha

Barnes is great as a fifth option on offence and to the extent I can tell he's a great guy as well. But as a fifth option on offence he doesn't really make much difference on the other side of the ball and when you put it all on paper you have a nice guy who is efficient but somewhat passive on one end only and that's it.

That's not an argument for Kuzma - I don't really have the time or motivation to follow other teams or players closely so can't say who I like the most as a possible replacement. But I figure if there is someone who can somewhat emulate HB's efficient spot up game and also be a bit more disruptive on the other end then that's an upgrade.

 

[SacTownKid]

Barnes is criminally underrated even by our own fanbase imo. In addition to his solid and consistent stat lines, there's so much he does that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. He knows how to win a game down the stretch by doing things that bring the momentum back in our favor. Most obvious thing he can do seemingly at will is get to the line in the fourth quarter to stop the other team's run. I've seen this so many times I just come to expect it. He's the level headed vet out there that steadies the team and gets them over the finish line. That stuff is invaluable.

He will not be short on offers. Just depends on if Monte has him in our plans going forward. If not, it's not because he's not good enough. We could win a championship with him in the starting lineup.

That's true, the question is though is he enough to close the gap the Kings have in talent and offensive aggressiveness? Barnes failed test one in these playoffs and it was the same test that basically got his spot replaced with the Warriors. Whatever, or whoever is here, Monte HAS to find a way to not have to stagger Fox and Domas and take some pressure off of Fox come playoff time. Fox stayed healthy for most of the season but the less he has to drive on 4 guys waiting for him at the rim the better off the Kings will be. Beal was the right idea, but it didn't happen because Beal chose the Suns. Onto the next.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Barnes is great as a fifth option on offence and to the extent I can tell he's a great guy as well. But as a fifth option on offence he doesn't really make much difference on the other side of the ball and when you put it all on paper you have a nice guy who is efficient but somewhat passive on one end only and that's it.

That's not an argument for Kuzma - I don't really have the time or motivation to follow other teams or players closely so can't say who I like the most as a possible replacement. But I figure if there is someone who can somewhat emulate HB's efficient spot up game and also be a bit more disruptive on the other end then that's an upgrade.

I think a defensive game changer would be great, I just don’t think the guys we are looking at fit the description. Unless Monte pulls off some wild move that none of us expects we are bringing in Kuzma who at best is slight upgrade defensively.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

I think a defensive game changer would be great, I just don’t think the guys we are looking at fit the description. Unless Monte pulls off some wild move that none of us expects we are bringing in Kuzma who at best is slight upgrade defensively.

Kessler may be that stopper. We also drafted two three and D wings that play suspiciously like Barnes, just without the vet presence. None of these guys are ready to jump into the starting spot... though I'm very curious to see what kind of leap Mr. Edwards will make this next year.

Bringing in an upgrade would be great, but I think it should be measured against the loss in chemistry and leadership. Our core culture is strong though and could likely integrate a new guy. Still, it should not be overlooked.

Monte has earned complete trust though.

 

[Kingster]

I think we are going to be shocked at Holmes in Dallas. Richaun’s problem was his spot was the free throw area. That made him unplayable with Fox who wanted to pull up at the elbow and unplayable with Sabonis who can’t spread the floor. When you are 2+2=1 with the teams two best players you don’t see the floor.

but a Dallas line-up is completely different. Luka and Kyrie fit with Richaun like Hali did. We could well see a Dallas line-up of

Kyrie
Hardy
Prosper
Luka
Holmes

do quite well next year….. it might be painful to watch. 4 of the 5 were gifts from the Kings…

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see Luka throwing up lobs for Holmes like Halliburton did. They still have issues with ball hog Luka being compatible with Kyrie and of fat Luka needing to go on a slim-fast.

 

[NiNetNiNe]

I think one thing people forget is that Kuzma was the man on the Washington team. If you go back to when Barnes was the man on the Dallas team then Kuzma is pretty much better overall except 3pt%.

 

[Kingster]

I think one thing people forget is that Kuzma was the man on the Washington team. If you go back to when Barnes was the man on the Dallas team then Kuzma is pretty much better overall except 3pt%.

That can be a bad thing, not a good thing. He's not going to get the number of shots on the Kings and there is legitimate concern that he won't be happy in that role. And then there is the defense....

 

[LPKingsFan]

Yeah, Aldridge and Amick on the latest Athletic pod are throwing cold water on Kuzma’s fit here, thinking he’d want a larger offensive role than the Kings would want for him.

 

[Rain man]

Yeah, Aldridge and Amick on the latest Athletic pod are throwing cold water on Kuzma’s fit here, thinking he’d want a larger offensive role than the Kings would want for him.

I’m guessing he goes to Houston for 4/100 and to be the man. Am guessing we would have offered like 4/80 and a complimentary role, if we were interested.

 

[KainLear]

Yeah, Aldridge and Amick on the latest Athletic pod are throwing cold water on Kuzma’s fit here, thinking he’d want a larger offensive role than the Kings would want for him.

Kuzma to me will be a slight upgrade to the current Keegan Murray (the one we met last season for who knows if the same shows back up, but I digress). At this time he will be a more dynamic scorer compared to Keegan.

Had shown the ability to rebound and defend, just lacking consistency and seemingly the will, but that would be me reading into body language. You would hope that Coach Brown can instill some work ethics overall if he is a target of ours.

Personally, I'd rather we go for someone who had a record for focus and dedication in competing however he is needed on the court.

 

[SLAB]

Yeah, Aldridge and Amick on the latest Athletic pod are throwing cold water on Kuzma’s fit here, thinking he’d want a larger offensive role than the Kings would want for him.

Im fine with this … I’m just really hoping the plan isn’t “Kuzma doesn’t want the complimentary role, so let’s call Harrison back.”

 

[NiNetNiNe]

That can be a bad thing, not a good thing. He's not going to get the number of shots on the Kings and there is legitimate concern that he won't be happy in that role. And then there is the defense....

If he signs here then he would more than likely understand what he is getting himself into. Plus he is at least a better defender than Barnes right now, and with Brown he could be even better.

if he wants a bigger role somewhere else then so be it.

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1674164330420649985

 

[SacTownKid]

I think one thing people forget is that Kuzma was the man on the Washington team. If you go back to when Barnes was the man on the Dallas team then Kuzma is pretty much better overall except 3pt%.

The downside is that when Kuzma is in the role Barnes is now, his numbers plummet. When Kuz is the man, he's basically around the level of Barnes when Barnes was gettable for basically thin air. Kuz is a legit athlete so that's where the difference is.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

The thing Kuzma brings is more athletic ability and this team can most certainly use that. As for the other stuff, I agree for the most part, but he's not a complete negative, he's just not truly great at any one thing. In comparison to Barnes, I do think the Kings need a more aggressive scoring personality on the roster so in that way Kuzma could be a much needed addition as well. I've brought up some of the comparison numbers between he and Grant and in looking at a bunch of the actual numbers, yes, I would pick Grant as well.

As for Holmes, I specifically said WORST VALUE contract. I never said Holmes was the worst contract. I agree he isn't. Clearly he isn't because he was traded. Overpaid backup C's are the worst value in the league if they can only play that position and I was trying to be as clear as possible that I was relating it specifically to him being a backup C. I did so multiple times. Holmes was the 17th highest paid C at one point, and the only backup paid that much. If you still don't understand my point, then there's no need for further discussion on it. When you extract words from sentences it's very easy to miss points. It's also easy when you take one individual sentence from a post and focus on that while ignoring the explanation that followed it.

He isn’t now nor ever was the worst value contract either. I understand exactly what you said and didn‘t “extract” anything nor miss points or explanations.

The examples I cited proved that he isn’t as one of them (Wall) made nearly 4x as much yet didn’t play a single minute in 2 of the past 4 seasons and played in fewer games than Holmes in the other 2 seasons. Can’t get worse value than that at 4x the pay.

Moving along, we clearly agree about Kuzma for the most part. I do disagree that he would bring more athleticism than HB. I see the difference between the two as negligible in that regard. Kuzma is maybe an inch to an inch and a half taller, but they are both ”around” the same size/weight/athlete. I’m guessing Kuzma likely has a longer wingspan, but none of that helps him to be a better defender or shooter — as HB is better in each aspect.

Kuzma brings nothing special to the table, as you acknowledged. At best he’s a slightly better defensive rebounder and passer. Is that worth an extra 7-12 M per year over what HB was making? Hell no.

Worse than that, Kuzma has historically been a subpar postseason performer, like HB, thus doesn’t bring anything to the table in that regard. While I might be swayed to say that adding Kuzma wouldn’t be a net negative on the whole, he doesn’t move the needle in a positive direction either. And if the KINGS are going to invest 25-30M in a player to try reach the next level — they’d better net a big positive.

While most seem opposed to adding Draymond Green (which I acknowledge the reasons why) at least with an addition like that there are overwhelming positive things being brought to the table. That wouldn’t be the case for Kuzma.

Hopefully McNair stays away from him and goes with Grant or Draymond or Middleton or even a trade for Siakam or OG. Somebody that brings something more to the table and an elite level skill the KINGS don’t already have or just need more.

 

[hrdboild]

Kuzma to me will be a slight upgrade to the current Keegan Murray (the one we met last season for who knows if the same shows back up, but I digress). At this time he will be a more dynamic scorer compared to Keegan.

Had shown the ability to rebound and defend, just lacking consistency and seemingly the will, but that would be me reading into body language. You would hope that Coach Brown can instill some work ethics overall if he is a target of ours.

Personally, I'd rather we go for someone who had a record for focus and dedication in competing however he is needed on the court.

Except, crucially, Keegan Murray shot 41% from three as a rookie and connected from range 206 times (15th in the league). In Kyle Kuzma's best shooting season he shot 36.6% from three and the most he's made in a single season is 160. Barring a huge setback, Keegan has already established himself as an elite shooter. For his career so far, Kuzma is below average (33.8% on 2364 attempts). Considering how important shooting has become in the league, I don't think this is a trivial distinction.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

Keegan Murray will be better than Kyle Kuzma by the end of next year.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Keegan Murray will be better than Kyle Kuzma by the end of next year.

Keegan Murray put up more offensive win shares in his first season than Kyle Kuzma has put up in all of his seasons combined. What do you mean, "next year"?

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Keegan Murray will be better than Kyle Kuzma by the end of next year.

He already is.

Better shooter and defender, sans the rookie mistakes. But on natural ability, work ethic, and fundamental skill — he’s already better.

Despite being a rookie, if Keegan played on a team where he didn’t have to defer to others and was able to get the same PT and shot volume as Kuzma, he could average much closer to 21 ppg — if not exceed it — for a losing team too.

While we saw Coach Brown get on Keegan a few times last season about focusing on rebounding, we also saw that Keegan was more than capable and up to the challenge when focused.

So I’m not even sure I’d concede that Kuzma is a better rebounder when usage is equal. But for arguments sake let’s say he is, I don’t see anything else in his game that Keegan can’t do equally well or better.

It’s only been one season, but he’s clearly a more consistent and talented shooter than Kuzma, for sure.