If they come back and win the next 2, all I can say is, I hope you're as right about your icon as you are about your prediction!
Me too.
Does Warriors, Phoenix, Change Thinking...
- Thread starter Kingster
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Me too.
Hmmmm.
I told you I was going to bookmark this post...
and I did.
Congratulations to the Dalla ... oh, wait. They didn't win, did they?
How do you like that crow? Sauteéd or barbecued?
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Steve Kerr
Did anyone notice what Steve Kerr said? That the wave of the future is a faster, quicker league, that the change of the no zone rule helped the Warriors? He could have also added the 3 point line and the no hand-check rule on the guards. That helped too.
Who still wants Hibbert with the #1 pick?
Did anyone notice what Steve Kerr said? That the wave of the future is a faster, quicker league, that the change of the no zone rule helped the Warriors? He could have also added the 3 point line and the no hand-check rule on the guards. That helped too.
Who still wants Hibbert with the #1 pick?
nbrans
All-Star
Monsieur chooses to eat his crow with an appertif of passive aggression.
Eh, there's a difference. I can own up to when I'm wrong, and I don't gloat when I'm right.
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nbrans
All-Star
We'll see what happens if Golden State runs into Houston and Yao if Houston beats the Jazz. Yao hasn't been faring so well against Boozer and co., but that's just because he's bothered by Boozer's strength. Golden State doesn't have anyone like that, and I personally think Yao is going to demolish Golden State's frontline -- GS will have to use a swarming doubling and defense, and then it becomes a matter of Houston hitting their outside shots.
Smallball looked fine and dandy against Dallas because they tried to play GS's game and lost. No doubt the zone rules had some effect, but Dallas should have been able to punish them outside but they couldn't hit a shot to save their lives. Dallas should have been able to kill GS by getting offensive rebounds. They should have been able to kill GS by playing the high/low game with Dirk in the post that worked in Game 5. They should have been able to cut through the zone. But they didn't and they lost.
The earth still revolves around the sun and all that. This is a nice win for Golden State, but they're not going to win the championsihp because someone with more composure, size and patience is going to pick them apart.
And yes, I would be fine with drafting Hibbert.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Um...Steve Kerr has the IQ of a grapefruit. A dumb blond grapefruit.
People always pick the wrong guys to cite for supposedly insightful quotes. I'll see if I can find something really insightful from Jessica Simpson so I can contribute my own.
As an aside, generally you don't bother building a team to beat Golden State because smallballing teams are irrelevant little gnats. Might bite you occassionally, but you have bigger fish to fry. But if Hibbert actually does have an NBA level post game then he would be exactly the weapon to take the starch right out of a smallballing team by simply throwing the ball down inside to him and grinding them to dust. If the Rockets make it by Utah, watch what happens when Nellie tries to guard Yao with Matt Barnes.
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kupman
Starter
I guess making bold predictions in sports will always exist, but I just don't get it. The wide world of sports is not so predictable and if it were - well, that would almost be boring.
kupman
Starter
Could also be fun to watch Yao try and run with Matt.
...gotta love the David vs. Goliath match-ups. Goliath usually wins, but the wins by David are talked about for thousands of years.
did David win with a "gimmick?"
thelonegunman
Prospect
The Dallas team that the Warriors just beat is not near as good as the Maverick teams' the Kings dispatched in '02 and '04. They may have had more regular season wins, but that's because Western Conference isn't quite as strong as it was then. It's still deep and better than the East, but still not as good. The Spurs are probably the most well-rounded team this season and were a notch behind the Kings and Lakers in 2002 when they were essentially the same team.
I guarantee the Suns, Mavs, and Warriors of this season would have had ZERO chance of beating that 2002 Lakers squad. They all likely would have been swept. As for the 2002 Kings, they may not have ran the ball as well as the three teams mentioned but they were a far better half court and defensive squad. If I recall correctly, the Kings led the league in offensive and defensive field goal % that season.
I guarantee the Suns, Mavs, and Warriors of this season would have had ZERO chance of beating that 2002 Lakers squad. They all likely would have been swept. As for the 2002 Kings, they may not have ran the ball as well as the three teams mentioned but they were a far better half court and defensive squad. If I recall correctly, the Kings led the league in offensive and defensive field goal % that season.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Seriously, if you were playing the Warriors with Hibbert at center, what impact do you think he would have? Would he be a dominant offensive force? I definitely don't see him be dominant defensively because the Warrior don't play the typical down-low game. He can't just stand in the paint like he did in college and have a big impact. He can't get up and down the floor. Would he have any more impact than Diop?
Vlade4GM
All-Star
Offensively he would have an impact, defensively I don't think he'd have much because he wouldn't get down there in transition and I don't think he'd be quick enough on the block to really stop penetration.
It's really an unfair matchup because you expect the big man to win, so the little guy's win over the big guy is so much more gratifying and talked about.
The Warriors quickly eliminating the Mavs in the 1st round shows that numbers can lie...well partly. The Mavs had such a great record finishing this season at 67-15, but 3 of those meager 15 loses were to GS!!!!! Now how's that for some apples!!!!!
The Truth Hurts
G-League
For those of you who think that Utah or Houston will punish GS in the paint, keep their composure moreso than GS and therefore win the match, I have two words for you...Baron Davis.
Seriously, don't underestimate this guy. After watching him put Terry, George, and whoever else was guarding him on strings, going to the basket at will or canning three's, I'm absolutely convinced that this guy has the potential to carry this team through any adversity they might face.
This Warrior team is ridiculously tough to guard, ESPECIALLY because they don't lose out playing small ball because they're players are so athletic that they can rebound and block shots at an adequate level, despite the size discrepency. They're defensive rotations are astounding, as they can cover ground so quickly at every position.
Bottom line: This team is awfully good, and critics (which are many) should think twice before counting this team out against ANY opponent as long as Baron Davis keeps suiting up for the boys in gold.
Seriously, don't underestimate this guy. After watching him put Terry, George, and whoever else was guarding him on strings, going to the basket at will or canning three's, I'm absolutely convinced that this guy has the potential to carry this team through any adversity they might face.
This Warrior team is ridiculously tough to guard, ESPECIALLY because they don't lose out playing small ball because they're players are so athletic that they can rebound and block shots at an adequate level, despite the size discrepency. They're defensive rotations are astounding, as they can cover ground so quickly at every position.
Bottom line: This team is awfully good, and critics (which are many) should think twice before counting this team out against ANY opponent as long as Baron Davis keeps suiting up for the boys in gold.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
That's cute. The ad hominem attack, counselor? Kind of like calling this series a "nice little upset." I think Kerr's pretty sharp. I also don't think that he made those statements in a vacuum without having previous conversations with scouts, GMs and coaches with the same viewpoint.
LOL! TELL THAT TO DALLAS!
First, I've already said that an OFFENSIVE low post center is one antidote; the other is trying to outdo them at their own athletic game. I don't see Hibbert being close to being a dominating offensive presence that would be that antidote. Second, "smallballing" is not precisely what I have in mind. I would call it "smaller-er" balling because more emphasis is put on athleticism than height. A sit-in-the-paint unathletic shot blocker like Hibbert had his value diminished with the rules changes. It's not that I don't like him because he's tall; I don't like him because his tallness doesn't make up for his lack of athleticism with a game that has a new set of rules that helps the athletic and hurts the unathletic. Both centers on Dallas are excellent examples that sit-in-the-paint DEFENSIVE center have had their value diminished by the rules changes. THAT is something you are avoiding. Because of the rules changes in the NBA, the Mutombo's of the NBA - tall guys who sit in the paint - have had their value diminished. They are no longer as valuable as they once were. Forget about where the Warrior or Phoenix go from here. THEY'VE ALREADY PROVEN THE POINT. There is no way on God's green earth that they could have come as far as they have already without the rules changes. CASE CLOSED.
nbrans
All-Star
I think you're a little too excited about a first round upset. Let's see what happens to Golden State in future rounds. I really don't think the Dallas series is too instructive of an example because Dallas never really tried playing their own game, so it wasn't really smallball vs. big ball, it was smallball vs. smallball, and clearly Golden State plays that game better than Dallas.
Avery started out with a blunder by not playing Dampier, and then Damp was injured for Game 6. Dampier could have really punished Golden State on the offensive glass -- I mean, in Game 3 he had 13 rebounds (5 offensive) in 18 minutes. His rebounding and shotblocking should have been an antidote to a lot of Dallas' problems especially given how horrendously Al Harrington was playing when he came in at center, but Avery tried to get cute. Diop played in the low 20s in minutes, but he's not as effective a rebounder, especially on the offensive end.
I hear what you're saying about athleticism, and I share that opinion, but I also still make an exception for guys over 7'0". There's something about that magical number that makes relatively unathletic guys like Ilgauskas and Divac more effective than guys who are 6'10" and 6'11". I think Hibbert is mobile enough to have an impact on both ends even if he's not the fastest sprinting up and down the court.
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The Truth Hurts
G-League
you're going to eat those words, just watch.
nbrans
All-Star
Even MJ didn't win without Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Very Interesting Stat...
....in last night's game:
Rebounding
Dallas: 38
Golden State: 53
Hmm, now how could it be that a team with Diop and Nowitski got so outrebounded? They have the height. What they don't have is quickness to the ball. Three point shooting, the Charles Barkley rule, both make quickness to the ball more important, height less important.
....in last night's game:
Rebounding
Dallas: 38
Golden State: 53
Hmm, now how could it be that a team with Diop and Nowitski got so outrebounded? They have the height. What they don't have is quickness to the ball. Three point shooting, the Charles Barkley rule, both make quickness to the ball more important, height less important.
nbrans
All-Star
The difference isn't really all that significant when you consider
1) Golden State shot 47% for the game and Dallas shot 37%
2) Diop only played 28 minutes
3) Dallas was comatose
4) Over the course of the series Dallas outrebounded GS by 2.7 even with Dampier and Diop barely playing
Are you trying to say a smaller team is a better rebounding team than a bigger team? Because over the course of the season Utah, New York and Cleveland were the best rebounders. Not exactly a smallballing bunch.
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Do you want to do a comparison on the total number of NBA championship teams with a star big man/men versus NBA championship teams without a star big man?
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Kingster
Hall of Famer
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I like the 3rd one. They all took valium before the game. That's the reason. And why exactly did Diop play so few minutes? Maybe it had to do with the fact that he didn't match up? No, I'm not saying smaller is better, I'm saying quickness is better and more important in comparison to height. Obviously, if there were 5 Bibby's out there they wouldn't get many rebounds - he's both slow and short. I'm saying that if you go back to the old rules without the 3 point line and without the Barkley rule you got a lot more rebs closer to the basket, which in turn allowed height to be more more important relative to quickness than it is today. 3 pt shooting leads to a lot more rebs away from the basket, which plays to the advantage of quickness, not height.
nbrans
All-Star
I really don't think your point is sound -- Dallas outrebounded Golden State over the course of the series. Yeah, they got outrebounded in a game in which they missed way more shots, which happens.
And none of the good rebounding teams in the league are "quick" teams. Utah? Boozer and Okur. New York? Curry and Lee. Cleveland? Ilgauskas and Gooden. They're big and strong, just like it's always been.
You can say that the paradigm has shifted all you want, but it hasn't.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You just did it again:
1) "before the three point line" was basically the 1970s. Its compeltely ridiculous to try to pin some sort of shift in rebounding from big guys to little guys on something that changed before half the people on this board were born. In fact its ompletely ridiculous to continue pointing to that as a "rule change" in any sort of modern sense -- for all intents and purposes, it has always been there.
2) the Barkley rule was backing your opponent down with the dribble in an iso set. In what way is that impacting rebounding?'
Meanwhile the Mavericks outreboudned the Warriors in the series...which should come as no surprise since those small, quick Warriors finished dead last in the NBA in rebounding this year.
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