[DEN/NYK] Brawl in the Garden

[VF21]

Sorry, Slim, but I still disagree. I didn't say it should be paramount, BUT I think leaving your starters in to the very end is pure disrespect, in your face poor sportsmanship...and I think the Nuggets are going to pay very dearly for Karl's mistake in judgment.

You can be a professional athlete and still show at least a modicum of sportsmanship.

 

[Honolulu Kings Fan]

i seriously see nothing wrong with leaving your startsers in the game... besides that connecting that to sportsmanship seems odd to me. sportsmanship is more of how you play, not taunting, not playing dirty, etc. It's the coaches decision to wear out his starters if he wants to, and if you can't deal with being licked. then you should learn how to be a competetive team rather then take offense that you're getting your *** handed to you. make yourself better, don't blame others for being better then you.

 

[VF21]

i seriously see nothing wrong with leaving your startsers in the game... besides that connecting that to sportsmanship seems odd to me. sportsmanship is more of how you play, not taunting, not playing dirty, etc. It's the coaches decision to wear out his starters if he wants to, and if you can't deal with being licked. then you should learn how to be a competetive team rather then take offense that you're getting your *** handed to you. make yourself better, don't blame others for being better then you.

Sorry, but sportsmanship is about all of it IMHO.

Yes, it's the coach's decision to leave the starters in. Hey, I've never liked George Karl or his approach to basketball anyway. Look at the marvelous job he did with the US team...

The point is you can win without being a jerk. And the Knicks had clearly thrown in the towel.

Having said that, I don't agree with the clothesline approach the Knicks player took but I can certainly understand his frustration. And I think, as I said above, that Karl is going to be the one paying the biggest price. Because of his questionable judgment, he'll most likely be without his starters for the next few games.

If Karl had taken the starters out, none of this would have happened. The Knicks would still have lost, the Nuggets would still have won. Is running up the score against the New York Knicks worth the price the Nuggets may end up paying? I seriously doubt if any Nuggets fans will be real happy about it.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don't really care about the "respect" angle, you pull your starters in blowouts to get the bench players some minutes on the floor and to avoid the risk of injury.

Of course now those bench players should get some extended meaningful minutes.

 

[Packt]

You wouldn't care if the Kings threw in the towel, put the end of the bench on the court and the opposing team continued to run up the score with their starters?

Wow...just wow.

Sorry, but I think a blatant display of poor sportsmanship like that is about the biggest disrespect there is. And I'm not one who usually says anything about "respect" or "dissing" someone, etc.

It won't matter in the W/L category so it doesn't matter to me how another team finishes the game off. If they want to risk injury to their starters, by all means do it.

 

[kennadog]

I'm siding with VF on this one. Once its clear the game's won, there's no point in piling on the points just to prove you can. And its clear that some coaches respect that unwritten rule of sportsmanship. I know RA did. And I know Popovich does.

I can't remember exactly which game it was with the Spurs, but the Kings got their behinds whupped. The clock was winding down to the end of the game and the Spurs had possession. They didn't have to shoot at all.

One of the Spurs players (can't remember who-bencher) shot a 3 and made it. When he came off the floor, Popovich went postal on the guy. The announcers were talking about how that player would never do that again under Pop.

All that's required is to win and even to win convincingly. There is no point to humiliating your opponent.

 

[6th]

I'm siding with VF on this one. Once its clear the game's won, there's no point in piling on the points just to prove you can. And its clear that some coaches respect that unwritten rule of sportsmanship. I know RA did. And I know Popovich does.

I can't remember exactly which game it was with the Spurs, but the Kings got their behinds whupped. The clock was winding down to the end of the game and the Spurs had possession. They didn't have to shoot at all.

One of the Spurs players (can't remember who-bencher) shot a 3 and made it. When he came off the floor, Popovich went postal on the guy. The announcers were talking about how that player would never do that again under Pop.

All that's required is to win and even to win convincingly. There is no point to humiliating your opponent.

WORD!!!!!

No point in humiliating someone just because you can. I believe that humiliating and poor-sportsmanship go hand in hand.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

And, for my part, you're not likely to ever hear me dispute that statement. Even so, I question to what extent sportsmanship is really important in professional sports.

Which isn't to say that Karl isn't a p****, because he probably is... but apparently that doesn't bother me as much as it does others. To me, the time to take umbrage at getting humiliated isn't in the final minute of a blowout, it's when the game starts to become a blowout in the first place; play some defense, and that never happens to you.

That being said, I wonder if anyone has actually asked Karl why he still had his starters on the court at the end of a blowout, and I wonder what his response was?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Saw this looking for comments by Karl about why he left his players in:

A day after decking the Knicks' Mardy Collins during a Madison Square Garden brawl in which 10 players were ejected, NBA scoring leader Carmelo Anthony offered an apology for his actions.

"Last night's altercation with the Knicks escalated further than it should have," Anthony said in a statement released Sunday. "I take full responsibility for my actions in the matter. In the heat of the moment I let my emotions get the best of me. I apologize to the fans, the Denver Nuggets, the NBA, my mother, and my family for the embarrassment I have caused them. I ask you all for your forgiveness.

"I also want to make a personal apology to Mardy Collins and his family. My actions were inexcusable, and I am sorry for making this an even more embarrassing situation.

"What makes this all the more painful is that this was one of the biggest weeks of my life. I just realized one of my biggest dreams when we opened the Youth Center in Baltimore that bares my name. To see the community excited and hundreds of kids smiling was an incredible feeling. Now the thought of thousands of kids seeing this incident on TV pains me. This is not the example I want to set.

"It's my hope that we work to move forward from this event, and never let something like this happen again."

The NBA is expected to hand down punishments for the fight on Monday. Suspensions are likely for Anthony and the other players involved in escalating the melee.

Source: ESPN.com


Eh, good enough for me. I won't get into the debate of whether or not Anthony is "phony tough," because I don't care; I wouldn't guess that more than one NBA player in ten has ever been in a real fight in his life, anyway, and I wouldn't bet that one in twenty actually knows how to defend himself. But, the apology seems sincere, so I'm alright with him, as long as he doesn't do it again.

 

[VF21]

And, for my part, you're not likely to ever hear me dispute that statement. Even so, I question to what extent sportsmanship is really important in professional sports.

Sportsmanship should be a part of sports, whether it's the little league team on the field or professional athletes. I don't believe you should compromise something simply because there's more money involved.

And I'm not talking about the Knicks being humiliated. I'm talking about showing a little respect for your opponent, no matter who he is. It's as important to me that people can be good winners as well as good losers.

It's a lesson children need to learn as well. There may be something old-fashioned about a little respect and courtesy, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for it...

 

[Lamar_Odom]

Perhaps Karl was trying to develop a killer instinct with his starters. Coaches have other agendas when they've already won. That's nothing new in the NBA, and has nothing to do with sportmanship but just taking care of business, and making his team better.

 

[Venom]

This just shows how soft the NBA (and basketball) has become. First and foremost, that flagrant foul was not that bad, and used to be commonplace in the old NBA. He had Smith around the neck, briefly, but didn't yank him down and was really just making sure to get the ball and keep Smith from lifting off. It was a hard foul, but not one with any overtly malovalent intent. Smith went down because of momentum and their legs getting tangled. Then the biggest wannabe thug in the league, Anthony, throws a closed-fist slap (not a punch) and runs away. What an absolute female!

Karl is an idiot and known for arrogant moves like this. And Thomas is infamous for trying to thug out his teams. It's not a coincidence that Artest's slide began under the tutelage of Zeke. But, I wouldn't mind a return to the old kind of values in the NBA, so I guess I am a hypocrite.

 

[Elise10]

I agree about leaving the starters in......what was worth getting one injured with sunday off.

Did Isiah think that it was ok for Mardy Collins to intentionally foul a player knowing he had received a flagrant foul 1 the day before?

If Anthony "knew" the Knicks intentions to foul was that why he punched Collins?

No secret that Isiah and George don't like each other after what happened to Karl's friend Larry Brown.

 

[VF21]

Saw this looking for comments by Karl about why he left his players in:

A day after decking the Knicks' Mardy Collins during a Madison Square Garden brawl in which 10 players were ejected, NBA scoring leader Carmelo Anthony offered an apology for his actions.

"Last night's altercation with the Knicks escalated further than it should have," Anthony said in a statement released Sunday. "I take full responsibility for my actions in the matter. In the heat of the moment I let my emotions get the best of me. I apologize to the fans, the Denver Nuggets, the NBA, my mother, and my family for the embarrassment I have caused them. I ask you all for your forgiveness.

"I also want to make a personal apology to Mardy Collins and his family. My actions were inexcusable, and I am sorry for making this an even more embarrassing situation.

"What makes this all the more painful is that this was one of the biggest weeks of my life. I just realized one of my biggest dreams when we opened the Youth Center in Baltimore that bares my name. To see the community excited and hundreds of kids smiling was an incredible feeling. Now the thought of thousands of kids seeing this incident on TV pains me. This is not the example I want to set.

"It's my hope that we work to move forward from this event, and never let something like this happen again."

The NBA is expected to hand down punishments for the fight on Monday. Suspensions are likely for Anthony and the other players involved in escalating the melee.

Source: ESPN.com


Eh, good enough for me. I won't get into the debate of whether or not Anthony is "phony tough," because I don't care; I wouldn't guess that more than one NBA player in ten has ever been in a real fight in his life, anyway, and I wouldn't bet that one in twenty actually knows how to defend himself. But, the apology seems sincere, so I'm alright with him, as long as he doesn't do it again.

Now that's what I'm talking about. Carmelo Anthony just earned some points in my book. I was especially interested in his apology to his family. In these days of athletes making obscene amounts of money for playing a game, I think it's important to note those who still retain family values.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

Again, if you don't want to be embarrassed, play defense, especially in front of your crowd. That's the bottomline. Crying about sportmanship seems weak to me, but that's just me.

 

[VF21]

Perhaps Karl was trying to develop a killer instinct with his starters. Coaches have other agendas when they've already won. That's nothing new in the NBA, and has nothing to do with sportmanship but just taking care of business, and making his team better.

Yeah, I'm sure the killer instinct is gonna really be honed against a defeated team's scrubs.

 

[VF21]

Again, if you don't want to be embarrassed, play defense, especially in front of your crowd. That's the bottomline. Crying about sportmanship seems weak to me, but that's just me.

You still don't get it, do you?

Hey, cool. We'll just agree that you think it's okay for professional athletes to be jerks and I think they'd all be better served to learn a little more about sportsmanship and respect.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Now that's what I'm talking about. Carmelo Anthony just earned some points in my book. I was especially interested in his apology to his family. In these days of athletes making obscene amounts of money for playing a game, I think it's important to note those who still retain family values.

I wouldn't be surprised if Anthony had already had a phone full of messages from his mother waiting for him by the time he got back to the locker room; from what little I've seen of her, she seems very down-to-earth, and I can't imagine that she'd be okay with how her son comported himself last night.

 

[Elise10]

Now that's what I'm talking about. Carmelo Anthony just earned some points in my book. I was especially interested in his apology to his family. In these days of athletes making obscene amounts of money for playing a game, I think it's important to note those who still retain family values.

See I'm still not quite as convinced.....Mardy's from NJ so he had family there to watch him play. To me that's being caught in the cookie jar and hoping that your punishment will be less severe than what it should be.

To me if he was truly sorry it shouldn't have to come a day later. Not to mention it's his second apology this year(First one's for being ejected the first game of the season)

 

[6th]

And, Anthony's realization that thousands of kids saw this altercation and the bad example that it set for them is important in my book.

And in response to Mr. Slim's comment about sportsmanship not having as big a place in professional sports, because of the obscene amounts of money the athletes make: The kids that watch and want to emulate professional athletes aren't thinking about the money when they watch fights like this. They only see that their hero fights on the court, so it must be okay. Kids do not distinguish between Pop-Warner, Little League, etc and the pros. For them basketball is basketball, baseball is baseball, etc. So when we leave sportsmanship off the court in the pros, we are telling kids that sportsmanship is not a big deal.

 

[VF21]

See I'm still not quite as convinced.....Mardy's from NJ so he had family there to watch him play. To me that's being caught in the cookie jar and hoping that your punishment will be less severe than what it should be.

To me if he was truly sorry it shouldn't have to come a day later. Not to mention it's his second apology this year(First one's for being ejected the first game of the season)

Come out a day later?

It happened last night. The apology was issued today... I think that's pretty timely. At least he apologized. I haven't seen any statements from any of the others involved...

I guess people just see this differently. I certainly don't want to argue with any of my fellow Kings fans over it.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

And in response to Mr. Slim's comment about sportsmanship not having as big a place in professional sports, because of the obscene amounts of money the athletes make: The kids that watch and want to emulate professional athletes aren't thinking about the money when they watch fights like this. They only see that their hero fights on the court, so it must be okay. Kids do not distinguish between Pop-Warner, Little League, etc and the pros. For them basketball is basketball, baseball is baseball, etc. So when we leave sportsmanship off the court in the pros, we are telling kids that sportsmanship is not a big deal.

They don't?

:: prepares to launch into long-winded rant about parenting today ::




...




:: decides against it ::

 

[Elise10]

Come out a day later?

It happened last night. The apology was issued today... I think that's pretty timely. At least he apologized. I haven't seen any statements from any of the others involved...

I guess people just see this differently. I certainly don't want to argue with any of my fellow Kings fans over it.

I say a day later because when they interviewed him last night it was the "I'm not going to comment" approach.

 

[VF21]

I say a day later because when they interviewed him last night it was the "I'm not going to comment" approach.

That was probably the smartest thing he could have done. Anything he said right after the altercation would most likely have been full of emotion and possibly twisted for months...

The apology was issued through channels less than 24 hours after the event. That's actually pretty fast.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I say a day later because when they interviewed him last night it was the "I'm not going to comment" approach.

For all we know, he was told not to comment last night. Or maybe he just had enough self control to realize that he might say something stupid while his emotions were on edge.

I mean, I've been in lots of fights, a few even after growing up, and if you'd asked me if I felt sorry for it right afterwards, I'd have almost definitely responded "hell no," but I usually think differently about it after I've calmed down.

Heck, that's why I stopped going to bars when I was twenty-two: fights have a way of "finding" me, and I've never been a "turn the other cheek" kind of guy...

EDIT - Looks like VF can type faster than I.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

You still don't get it, do you?

Hey, cool. We'll just agree that you think it's okay for professional athletes to be jerks and I think they'd all be better served to learn a little more about sportsmanship and respect.

I get it. And we'll agree to disagree. You'll never see that coaches do have other agenda even when the game is won. Again, it has nothing to do with being jerks, but a coach making his team better although, I would get it past Karl to be flaunting his victory in the garden. Play defense, and don't get embarrassed. Play like a softie, and suffer the consequences, and don't cry because you have been humiliated --- it's your fault, not the other team's.

 

[Elise10]

That was probably the smartest thing he could have done. Anything he said right after the altercation would most likely have been full of emotion and possibly twisted for months...

The apology was issued through channels less than 24 hours after the event. That's actually pretty fast.

Well I suppose it is a lot better then the mindless drivel of what both Isiah Thomas and Nate Robinson said last night.

 

[VF21]

I get it. And we'll agree to disagree. You'll never see that coaches do have other agenda even when the game is won. Again, it has nothing to do with being jerks, but a coach making his team better although, I would get it past Karl to be flaunting his victory in the garden. Play defense, and don't get embarrassed. Play like a softie, and suffer the consequences, and don't cry because you have been humiliated --- it's your fault, not the other team's.

So basically you're saying Karl was trying to teach the Knicks a lesson? Sorry, but that's the only way your comments make any sense at all to me...

You're right. We'll agree that we disagree and since I actually did agree with you earlier I think it's better this way.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

I will have to wonder if you guys will still cry about sportmanship if the Kings were beating the Lakers in L.A. by that margin but Musselman leaving his starters because they need to gel, and he wanted to make a statement to his team that they can do this to the Lakers. And what will I say? I'll say the Lakers should have played defense if they didn't want to get embarrassed, and take it like a man.

 

[VF21]

I will have to wonder if you guys will still cry about sportmanship if the Kings were beating the Lakers in L.A. by that margin but Musselman leaving his starters because they need to gel, and he wanted to make a statement to his team that they can do this to the Lakers. And what will I say? I'll say the Lakers should have played defense if they didn't want to get embarrassed, and take it like a man.

I would certainly scream about sportsmanship and total lunacy. If you have a team thoroughly and completely beaten and it's not the deciding game of the NBA finals, any coach that would leave his starters in "because they need to gel" should be fired - not only for the sportsmanship aspect but for the clear and present risk of injury.

And - as I've had to remind you numerous times before - you don't always need to make it about the Lakers, dude.