Carmello to the Kings?
- Thread starter Jespher
- Start date
by then we could be THE team in the west and the Lakers should look like the spurs then so the players would flock to us like they did Miami. but honestly thats one of those cross that bridge when you get there type deals. If you don't get players because one day you will have to pay max for them. then what is the reason in trying to get stars. if you want to win you got to pay.
The fact of the matter is that most championship teams look that way. And that's really the result of the much maligned salary cap. You get your stars together, and then there is only enough left to stack in roleplayers and support personnel. Not to mention not enough shots etc.
Also why again this threat of a hard cap and everything could nto be worse for us. Let's assume we got Melo here giving up no more than Landry + Casspi + picks. And of course assuming he works for us. We would then have an absurdly large stack of supporting talent piled up behind those top guys -- far more than most star laden teams eveer see because we've been piling up cheap young talent rather than having to import it on big contracts. And under the current system if the house was packed again and finances were looking up we could try to hold onto a decent chunk of that talent by going over the cap to retain our own players. But if a hard cap gets slapped in, we lose all those guys.
Also why again this threat of a hard cap and everything could nto be worse for us. Let's assume we got Melo here giving up no more than Landry + Casspi + picks. And of course assuming he works for us. We would then have an absurdly large stack of supporting talent piled up behind those top guys -- far more than most star laden teams eveer see because we've been piling up cheap young talent rather than having to import it on big contracts. And under the current system if the house was packed again and finances were looking up we could try to hold onto a decent chunk of that talent by going over the cap to retain our own players. But if a hard cap gets slapped in, we lose all those guys.
I don't think the threat of a hard cap is a good argument against acquiring talent.
For one thing, it's far from a certainty that a literal hard cap will get inserted into the next CBA. Sure, it's good to act in a precautionary manner when the future is a bit uncertain, but use that caution wisely. Don't throw 4/$50M at Erick Dampier, even if you can afford it now. But as we've seen, nobody is being very shy about giving out 6/$120M contracts to the right players even with an uncertain future for the CBA. Carmelo is the kind of guy that you should give the money to, and then cross the financial bridge when (and if) you get to it.
For another thing, if it turns out that a hard cap does get installed, then it's going to hit everybody, not just us. Maybe the hard cap means that you can only get two max-type contracts on a team. If so, then when the time comes we max Tyreke, then the next year we max Cousins and let a 30-year-old Carmelo walk. And if Carmelo's contract is too big to max out Tyreke (which seems unlikely), then we trade Carmelo a year early. It's not like somebody out there won't want him. In any case, what do we lose? We get Carmelo for 3-4 years and see what kind of a shot we can get at a title towards the end of that time frame, then we revert to a 2-max player team like everybody else. If we don't go after Carmelo, at that point we're in the same position (an Evans/Cousins team) but we spent the four years to get there without that all-star SF.
We can't forever sit back and try to stockpile young talent, and wait for that young talent to develop. At some point, we have to say carpe diem and go for it. And if we could actually get an extended Carmelo without shipping off Evans or Cousins, I say it's carpe diem time. Make the team very very good right now, and deal with the possible consequences of the CBA later. If nothing else, imagine what turning the Kings into an immediate contender would do for the chances of financing a new arena.
For one thing, it's far from a certainty that a literal hard cap will get inserted into the next CBA. Sure, it's good to act in a precautionary manner when the future is a bit uncertain, but use that caution wisely. Don't throw 4/$50M at Erick Dampier, even if you can afford it now. But as we've seen, nobody is being very shy about giving out 6/$120M contracts to the right players even with an uncertain future for the CBA. Carmelo is the kind of guy that you should give the money to, and then cross the financial bridge when (and if) you get to it.
For another thing, if it turns out that a hard cap does get installed, then it's going to hit everybody, not just us. Maybe the hard cap means that you can only get two max-type contracts on a team. If so, then when the time comes we max Tyreke, then the next year we max Cousins and let a 30-year-old Carmelo walk. And if Carmelo's contract is too big to max out Tyreke (which seems unlikely), then we trade Carmelo a year early. It's not like somebody out there won't want him. In any case, what do we lose? We get Carmelo for 3-4 years and see what kind of a shot we can get at a title towards the end of that time frame, then we revert to a 2-max player team like everybody else. If we don't go after Carmelo, at that point we're in the same position (an Evans/Cousins team) but we spent the four years to get there without that all-star SF.
We can't forever sit back and try to stockpile young talent, and wait for that young talent to develop. At some point, we have to say carpe diem and go for it. And if we could actually get an extended Carmelo without shipping off Evans or Cousins, I say it's carpe diem time. Make the team very very good right now, and deal with the possible consequences of the CBA later. If nothing else, imagine what turning the Kings into an immediate contender would do for the chances of financing a new arena.
Melo is one of my favorite non Kings player. I mentioned the idea of trying to get Melo last yr when we were trying to trade Martin. Most people said I was crazy to want Melo. Now to see we actually have a chance to get Melo is incredible.
I'm all for getting Melo as long as we don't give up Tyreke or DeMarcus. I would offer Landry, Casspi + SammyD. I would keep Greene, JT, Hassan and the young core. We won't win a championship right away but we are an instant playoff team and possibly 2nd round depending on who we draw. As Tyreke and DMC develops, I see us in the WCF within 2 yrs and a serious championship contender within 3 yrs.
I'm all for getting Melo as long as we don't give up Tyreke or DeMarcus. I would offer Landry, Casspi + SammyD. I would keep Greene, JT, Hassan and the young core. We won't win a championship right away but we are an instant playoff team and possibly 2nd round depending on who we draw. As Tyreke and DMC develops, I see us in the WCF within 2 yrs and a serious championship contender within 3 yrs.
I agree with pretty much this entire statement. There is definitely an opportunity cost with passing on certain players. At face value Anthony may cost more money now, but in the long run, will he actually cause a positive net cash flow? Will he put butts in the seats? Will a playoff Kings team act as catalyst for a new arena?
Using the CBA as an argument is oversimplifying the situation in my opinion. A team consisting of Anthony/Reke/Cousins WILL be televised and Sacramento WILL be on the map again, win or lose, publicity is publicity, and it will generate a greater cash flow, the question is how much greater and to what effect.
Using the CBA as an argument is oversimplifying the situation in my opinion. A team consisting of Anthony/Reke/Cousins WILL be televised and Sacramento WILL be on the map again, win or lose, publicity is publicity, and it will generate a greater cash flow, the question is how much greater and to what effect.
Another small thing to consider is financial reward for the franchise during a deep playoff run. You get guaranteed sellouts, you also get big tv revenue, and ad revenue. Makes it easier to afford all those stars. I don't think any of us would ever be able to determine what that dollar amount is, but somewhere, someone knows, and I'd have to think it is SIGNIFICANT, just based on some rough brainstorming. Especially considering the TV part. Viewership is through the roof, and every game is nationally televised.
Something I've been curious about the hard cap for a while is what happens to all the teams who have been making moves based on the old CBA. I think a good solution would be to grandfather in certain rules like bird rights and such based on the lengths of current players contracts. That way, teams don't get screwed based on contracts they made under the old CBA, and it also keeps teams competitive and doesnt force them to throw out a bunch of scrubs, which is bad for everyone.
One way this could be done is based on the urrent length of contracts in the league. For example, if the longest signed contracts now end in 2014, teams could be allowed to continue to use bird rights, provided all of those contracts also end in 2014. In other words, the current CBA is still in effect until date X, and no contracts may be made beyond date X unless they conform to the new CBA. That way teams can ease into the new framework without blowing up teams that were designed to win under the current framework.
Honestly something like this needs to be done. I don't know how the Heat, Lakers, etc. would be able to fill out their rosters otherwise. It's in everyone's interest to continue to put out a good product, regardless of the specifics of the new CBA.
GP has always stated if superstar talent was available we would consider it. This potentially accelerates everything and in all honesty im worried about fit and chemisty issues let alone what we would have to give up. The proposed trade with casspi and landry is the blueprint and i wouldnt want to give up much else, i am happy to take the high road and continue the rebuild at the steady rate were moving at but in the end in GP i trust.
I don't know why so many people think that getting an arena will be that much easier if we have a contending team and packed games. It didn't help at all back when Vlade, Bibby, Christie, Peja and Webber were winning, contending, packing the arena and the Maloofs were flush with money.
Simply put, the Maloofs were not and will not be able to fully fund a new arena by themselves. They've been trying to get a new arena almost since they took over the team. Nothing is going to happen on that front without some kind of support from government and citizens, not all of who are Kings fans. The arena has to be seen as valuable to the locals with or without the Kings. Having the Kings in the new arena would be great, because they would be a major source of revenue.
As to Carmelo, I have a hard time seeing him wanting to go to either Sacramento or Minnestoa, although they both have cap space. NJ seems like a more likely place for him to go, just because of the market size, a new arena and an owner who has and appears to be willing to spend a ton of money. After all, it is New York. Can't get bigger than that for exposure and big city excitement.
Simply put, the Maloofs were not and will not be able to fully fund a new arena by themselves. They've been trying to get a new arena almost since they took over the team. Nothing is going to happen on that front without some kind of support from government and citizens, not all of who are Kings fans. The arena has to be seen as valuable to the locals with or without the Kings. Having the Kings in the new arena would be great, because they would be a major source of revenue.
As to Carmelo, I have a hard time seeing him wanting to go to either Sacramento or Minnestoa, although they both have cap space. NJ seems like a more likely place for him to go, just because of the market size, a new arena and an owner who has and appears to be willing to spend a ton of money. After all, it is New York. Can't get bigger than that for exposure and big city excitement.
If you have a chance to land a player of Melo's caliber you have to do it. Were talking about a guy who would be one of the best two players to ever don a kings jersey if we were able to make it happen. He would make us the biggest and most dominating post team in the league. His DEADLY mid-range game would compliment Tyreke well. There would be some chemistry issues, but if we were to sign him up for 3+ years and had his commitment I think we have to make the trade. I think the formula of (casspi or greene) + (landry or thompson) + (dalembert or beno) + a first is fair.
You've struck at the heart of the problem with the proposed new CBA. How do you fit current contracts into a new system that would elliminate those contracts. There has to be a grace period of some kind. I doubt you would get the owners of the teams holding those contracts to agree to destroy the very thing they worked to create. I have to believe, that if your the owner of a team, you have to be knowledgeble of what the desired outcome is. For instance, I can't believe that the ownership of the Heat would have just signed three players like LeBron, Wade, and Bosh to huge long term contracts, while knowing that the new CBA ownership is proposing would be detrimental to them.
We're all on the outside looking in. Whats gray to us is likely more black and white to them. I certainly wouldn't endorse being reckless, but I wouldn't let the uncertain future be the cause of paralysis.
We're all on the outside looking in. Whats gray to us is likely more black and white to them. I certainly wouldn't endorse being reckless, but I wouldn't let the uncertain future be the cause of paralysis.
Oh I agree with that. Guess I'm just mad that the city/county couldn't get anything going back then when it would have been an easier sell and would would have cost a lot less.
I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. I was just trying to think about it from Carmelo's perspective, instead of ours. Not sure how I feel about the possibility. I'd kind of like to see how the group we have now comes together, but Carmelo would almost certainly be a draw locally and nationally.
I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. I was just trying to think about it from Carmelo's perspective, instead of ours. Not sure how I feel about the possibility. I'd kind of like to see how the group we have now comes together, but Carmelo would almost certainly be a draw locally and nationally.
I don't propose to know whats in Anthony's mind. I can only speculate on what I've read. To that end, it appears he wants to be on a team that has the potential to be a contender. Probably sooner than later. It also appears he wants to be closer to the action and the bright lights of the big city. Regarding the first part, Anthony is young, and with the Kings he would be joining a young team that has a lot of talent. Possibly a team with two future stars. A team that may not be championship ready this season or even next, but a team that will be talented enough and young enough to be competing for the top prize for the forseeable future. I say this with the addmission of looking through rose colored glasses.
As for the bright lights. Well sacramento won't ever attract anyone because of its broadway plays or night life. But all that can be had 70 miles down the road to the bay, or up the mountain to Tahoe. L.A. is only an hours flight away. Simply put, sacramento is a hell of a lot closer to the action than Denver is. Not to mention the Kings connection with Las Vegas via the Maloof's. Granted, its not New York, but Anthony would have the pleasure of kicking both the Knicks and Nets butts every year. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd rather be a Kings fan right now than a Knicks or Nets fan.
So I don't look at sacramento as such a bad destination. Particularly right now with the talent we have. Granted, they haven't proven anything yet. But one has to be optimistic about the future. With or without Anthony.
As for the bright lights. Well sacramento won't ever attract anyone because of its broadway plays or night life. But all that can be had 70 miles down the road to the bay, or up the mountain to Tahoe. L.A. is only an hours flight away. Simply put, sacramento is a hell of a lot closer to the action than Denver is. Not to mention the Kings connection with Las Vegas via the Maloof's. Granted, its not New York, but Anthony would have the pleasure of kicking both the Knicks and Nets butts every year. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd rather be a Kings fan right now than a Knicks or Nets fan.
So I don't look at sacramento as such a bad destination. Particularly right now with the talent we have. Granted, they haven't proven anything yet. But one has to be optimistic about the future. With or without Anthony.
These are the reasons why I don't immediately laugh off the idea of Carmelo agreeing to an extension to be traded to us. But there is good reason to believe that his wife wants New York, and he has Brooklyn/Baltimore/Syracuse roots, so...
As far as the Kings/Knicks/Nets goes, I would prefer to be a Kings fan, but I think I'd be pretty excited as a Nets fan, too. New, rich owner committed to winning, big market (even if second-banana in that market), Lopez, Favors, Harris, T-Will, Damion James...there's a lot of reason for optimism there, and if one or two of those pieces gets turned into Carmelo, even more. Shoot, plus a new arena that's actually being built. Nets fans should be quite content right now. I think the Knicks may be struggling for an identity for a while, though. Until they land a big name free agent (I don't like their trade assets) in the Carmelo/Paul mold to pair with Amare, I think their prospects are dim.
As far as the Kings/Knicks/Nets goes, I would prefer to be a Kings fan, but I think I'd be pretty excited as a Nets fan, too. New, rich owner committed to winning, big market (even if second-banana in that market), Lopez, Favors, Harris, T-Will, Damion James...there's a lot of reason for optimism there, and if one or two of those pieces gets turned into Carmelo, even more. Shoot, plus a new arena that's actually being built. Nets fans should be quite content right now. I think the Knicks may be struggling for an identity for a while, though. Until they land a big name free agent (I don't like their trade assets) in the Carmelo/Paul mold to pair with Amare, I think their prospects are dim.
You can count on the wife to muddy up the waters. I'll probably regret that statement.. Just kidding, just kidding! I agree that I would rather be a Nets fan than a Knicks fan. The Knicks are stll a mish mosh of players right now. They gain Stoudemire, but they lose Lee. Different kind of players that bring different things to the table, but I don't see a huge gain in the win dept. Not to mention that if your a Knicks fan, all you can hope for is to make the playoffs, and not much more. I mean if they actually make the playoffs, who are they going to beat. Atlanta, Chicago, Orlando, Boston, Miami? I think they're still in the land of the have nots. The only think I'd switch with the Nets is owners. Don't get me wrong, I love the Maloofs. But that dude is a billionaire and can pay for his own arena. Of course with our luck he'd probably try and move the team to Moscow.
I think 4th, tops. I know Webber was better. I think Mitch was a better, come complete player, although we might be able to argue offensive forcefulness, and I think that Tyreke is going to be better, perhaps even considerably.
Guys who just score are just...shrug. That scoring column is often the most overrated thing in basketball. Now Melo also boards, which is nice, and he scores in the right way (i..e down inside), so he's physical not as one dimensional as Kevin. But he's still a bit of a fake superstar. Nobody gets better because he's on the floor, on either end. And you have to remember and be a little wary of him playing in a stat goosing run'n'gun system for his entire career in Denver. I have no doubts he's a 20ppg scorer in this league, but is he a 28ppg scorer in a more normally paced system?
Now on the other hand he would make a very nice #2 to Evans, and an extraordinary #3 if Cousins blossoms (he might always outscore one or both of those guys, but still be the #3).
Guys who just score are just...shrug. That scoring column is often the most overrated thing in basketball. Now Melo also boards, which is nice, and he scores in the right way (i..e down inside), so he's physical not as one dimensional as Kevin. But he's still a bit of a fake superstar. Nobody gets better because he's on the floor, on either end. And you have to remember and be a little wary of him playing in a stat goosing run'n'gun system for his entire career in Denver. I have no doubts he's a 20ppg scorer in this league, but is he a 28ppg scorer in a more normally paced system?
Now on the other hand he would make a very nice #2 to Evans, and an extraordinary #3 if Cousins blossoms (he might always outscore one or both of those guys, but still be the #3).
From my from afar observations of my dear old hometown's bungling, my bet would be if the team starts having success and people start coming back...then immediately it will be proof that the Maloofs are making plenty of money and now can fund things themselves. 
I strongly believe Melo is not coming to Sacramento. The reason he's not signing the contract is to force a trade and build something like what Lebron and DWade did. He wants to go to NY and eventually team up with Amare and Chris Paul and form their own super team. Unless he's teaming up with other stars he won't be happy.
But if we somehow get him without giving up our young core, then why not right?
But if we somehow get him without giving up our young core, then why not right?
That was 10 years ago - a new arena wasn't a focus because the thinking may have been, "It's old, but I am sure we will have a new one in 10 years"...
10 years ago, Arco was terrible... Now, it is terrible +10 years...
Plus, I don't think having a "packed house" will actually get us a new arena. I do think a "packed house" will keep the team from moving. If the team won't move, then I think a new arena deal will get done by default... eventually...
10 years ago, Arco was terrible... Now, it is terrible +10 years...
Plus, I don't think having a "packed house" will actually get us a new arena. I do think a "packed house" will keep the team from moving. If the team won't move, then I think a new arena deal will get done by default... eventually...
If there's no new arena, the team goes, packed house or not. If Sacramento fans think so, they're fooling themselves.
Arco is not economically sustainable as an arena for basketball or most other events. The city's own consultants concluded Arco was nearing the end of its economic life and thoise reports are already a few years old
Arco is not acceptable to the League, not just to the Maloofs. And a new arena has been a focus of the Maloofs for 10+ years, if not the fans, and it's gone through numerous failed proposals.
Arco is not economically sustainable as an arena for basketball or most other events. The city's own consultants concluded Arco was nearing the end of its economic life and thoise reports are already a few years old
Arco is not acceptable to the League, not just to the Maloofs. And a new arena has been a focus of the Maloofs for 10+ years, if not the fans, and it's gone through numerous failed proposals.
From my from afar observations of my dear old hometown's bungling, my bet would be if the team starts having success and people start coming back...then immediately it will be proof that the Maloofs are making plenty of money and now can fund things themselves.
Anyway, any player contemplating a move to Sacramento might be put off by the uncertain future of where exactly the Kings are going to be. It could be worse than Sacramento.
Last edited:
From my from afar observations of my dear old hometown's bungling, my bet would be if the team starts having success and people start coming back...then immediately it will be proof that the Maloofs are making plenty of money and now can fund things themselves.
There's no need for Melo, and there's actually a good chance that he can make us worse--while he can score and will give us a three-headed monster, it probably will come at the expense of top players off our bench (i.e. Landry, Casspi) and if such a trade goes down, it probably will make us worse for the time being by virtue of not having as much depth. And that's not even counting all the chemistry problems on/off court that could happen with him.
The primary reason I don't think we need Melo now is because I think we have a good chance to get the 8th seed in the Western Conference, and possibly the 7th seed (if Yao Ming doesn't play up to his past par) with our current roster. I know, call me delusional, but if DeMarcus meets the expectations, I think we will have that Cousins-Evans tandem up and rolling, and Dalembert/Casspi are extremely underrated, while JT, Landry and Udrih are great complementary pieces. More than that, however, the West seems to quite top heavy in the top six spots in the playoffs next year, but after that's there's a bit of a dropoff, and I think we'll duke it out with Houston for the 7th spot/8th spots. I think there will be this gulf between us and Memphis/Utah/LAC, which will try to nab that 8th spot from us but will fall short, and I think the new additions up in Nawlins and Phoenix won't help their cause so they will fall out of the playoffs. And if you're wondering why Memphis and Utah are out of the playoffs as well, I think they'll both have depth issues (particularly since Memphis is only top-3 heavy on their roster). But I seem to be getting a bit too carried away here, but it's always fun to prognosticate.
The primary reason I don't think we need Melo now is because I think we have a good chance to get the 8th seed in the Western Conference, and possibly the 7th seed (if Yao Ming doesn't play up to his past par) with our current roster. I know, call me delusional, but if DeMarcus meets the expectations, I think we will have that Cousins-Evans tandem up and rolling, and Dalembert/Casspi are extremely underrated, while JT, Landry and Udrih are great complementary pieces. More than that, however, the West seems to quite top heavy in the top six spots in the playoffs next year, but after that's there's a bit of a dropoff, and I think we'll duke it out with Houston for the 7th spot/8th spots. I think there will be this gulf between us and Memphis/Utah/LAC, which will try to nab that 8th spot from us but will fall short, and I think the new additions up in Nawlins and Phoenix won't help their cause so they will fall out of the playoffs. And if you're wondering why Memphis and Utah are out of the playoffs as well, I think they'll both have depth issues (particularly since Memphis is only top-3 heavy on their roster). But I seem to be getting a bit too carried away here, but it's always fun to prognosticate.