Are you kidding me? Robinson Traded?

Glenn

Hall of Famer
Consider this: many of us thought that it was more likely than not that the Maloofs would not get what they want by selling the team to Hansen/Ballmer and that the team would stay in Sacramento. I will not list the many reasons that people thought this would be true. I think this latest action sealed the deal.

The Maloof name is flying around the internet and their reputation, if they had even a vestige of a good reputation, is now shot. Scan the internet and read what people are saying about the Maloofs.

Let us say that a few of the BOG have not been keeping their finger on the pulse on Kingsland. Of course many are not following the Kings' missteps as closely as us fans or even Stern for that matter. Now they cannot help but read articles that not only call this deal stupid but followup by saying this is not the first screw-up by the Maloofs. The media is saying the Maloofs are incompetent. Welcome to the world we have been living in, folks. Some of the media are holding their name up in derision not only for this one deal but are going into some detail of what has happened over the last few years. Heck, within the last year they have worked a deal to sell a 2nd rounder for cash and this latest deal that resulted in cash flowing into their pockets. They are like vultures picking the bones bare of a carcass except that vultures at least are doing the environment a favor.

This latest move should seal the decision as to where the team plays next year. Certainly none of the BOG will have forgotten this newsworthy idiocy by the Kings owners 7 weeks from now when they need to make a decision involving these very same owners. To look at it another way, if the NBA is worried about it's image, will they further damage it by supporting/catering to the worst owners in the league? I doubt it.

We lost TRob and I am sure a lot of us are up in the air a bit as to his worth. To the rest of the world, losing TRob was the biggest negative in this deal. Nobody trades away a #5 pick before he has even played a year after being dafted. Even if Patterson turns out to be better than TRob, that isn't the point at all. The only info we have to judge this deal is what we know now. Patterson is OK and TRob has a lot to learn. TRob could be far better than Patterson in a few years and I think that is what most people will assume. In other words it is an absurd trade and given that money was involved, it seems clear that the Maloofs do not have the welfare of the Kings at heart and are looking out only for their own welfare.

That is the major point. This is what the world sees. The Maloofs don't care about the Kings.

Will the NBA give the Maloofs what they want in the sale to Hansen/Ballmer? Would the NBA really want new owners who signed off on this trade? The stupidity is with the Maloofs but also with Hansen/Ballmer who OK'd the trade. So who should own the team? Burkle, who owns part of a hockey champion, or Hansen/Ballmer who think that trading away TRob is OK? This trade destroyed the reputation of the Maloofs but almost more importantly, hurt the reputation of Hansen/Ballmer.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yup...oh, and what I saw was a great player in the wings a couple years in T-Rob that was just as frustrated by the horrible and misguided leadership in Smart, the Maloofs, and Petrie. No way a young player like T-Rob can grow in an environment like this, just like Cousins...we all know he acts out alot that gets him in trouble, but he has nobody to mentor him and grow him on this team, and that is a total shame!

he didn't flash that kind of talent Circa. He was showing spurts of being a good hustle/athlete type player, no some sort of dominant goito guy.

Its like the Jimmer thing. Being great in college =/= being great in the pros. Jimmer best skill (shooting) translated. Not much else did. TRob's best skill (rebounding) was sputtering, but somewhat translating, and I thinik maybe in the future it will. But again, not much else has thus far.
 
I agree that in an odd way this can only make KJ's case stronger to the BOG. Not one single person thinks the Kings (well, Grant, but I don't think he counts) didn't get absolutely raped in this trade.
 
Consider this: many of us thought that it was more likely than not that the Maloofs would not get what they want by selling the team to Hansen/Ballmer and that the team would stay in Sacramento. I will not list the many reasons that people thought this would be true. I think this latest action sealed the deal.

The Maloof name is flying around the internet and their reputation, if they had even a vestige of a good reputation, is now shot. Scan the internet and read what people are saying about the Maloofs.

Let us say that a few of the BOG have not been keeping their finger on the pulse on Kingsland. Of course many are not following the Kings' missteps as closely as us fans or even Stern for that matter. Now they cannot help but read articles that not only call this deal stupid but followup by saying this is not the first screw-up by the Maloofs. The media is saying the Maloofs are incompetent. Welcome to the world we have been living in, folks. Some of the media are holding their name up in derision not only for this one deal but are going into some detail of what has happened over the last few years. Heck, within the last year they have worked a deal to sell a 2nd rounder for cash and this latest deal that resulted in cash flowing into their pockets. They are like vultures picking the bones bare of a carcass except that vultures at least are doing the environment a favor.

This latest move should seal the decision as to where the team plays next year. Certainly none of the BOG will have forgotten this newsworthy idiocy by the Kings owners 7 weeks from now when they need to make a decision involving these very same owners. To look at it another way, if the NBA is worried about it's image, will they further damage it by supporting/catering to the worst owners in the league? I doubt it.

We lost TRob and I am sure a lot of us are up in the air a bit as to his worth. To the rest of the world, losing TRob was the biggest negative in this deal. Nobody trades away a #5 pick before he has even played a year after being dafted. Even if Patterson turns out to be better than TRob, that isn't the point at all. The only info we have to judge this deal is what we know now. Patterson is OK and TRob has a lot to learn. TRob could be far better than Patterson in a few years and I think that is what most people will assume. In other words it is an absurd trade and given that money was involved, it seems clear that the Maloofs do not have the welfare of the Kings at heart and are looking out only for their own welfare.

That is the major point. This is what the world sees. The Maloofs don't care about the Kings.

Will the NBA give the Maloofs what they want in the sale to Hansen/Ballmer? Would the NBA really want new owners who signed off on this trade? The stupidity is with the Maloofs but also with Hansen/Ballmer who OK'd the trade. So who should own the team? Burkle, who owns part of a hockey champion, or Hansen who thinks that trading away TRob is OK?
I agree with this 100%. I'm sorry to see T-Rob go, but this is the kind of thing that sheds a LOT of light on the fact that the team's fans are getting screwed.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
He will at least get JT money/years if not more but the timing of his rookie deal hurts the most, it will be around when a few of our young guys will be due for raises if we decide to keep them, plus we will have had only 1 year to evaluate him in sacramento and how he meshes with cousins/JT etc now that may be enough to conclude weather or not he deserves a 4/5 yr deal but more time would have been ideal. I dont mind PP so much as I hate the fact that we gave up on a top 5 pick so dam early.
I doubt Patterson is going to get what JT does -- he's small. Now we in Sacto have been trained to believe small is valubale, but that's not how the rest of the league sees it. JT is a combo PF/C, and that's the more valuable player. And in particular now if Patterson joins a platoon with JT, his minutes and numbers will go down, and so will his eventual contract. Look at it this way -- Carl Landry, another one of the undersized PFs that Houston routinely produces and dumps on us (seriously -- Landry, Hayes, now Patterson? Even Kenny Thomas started in Houston. They have a factory, and we are the only consumer)...anyway, Landry is generally superior in that he is more of a goto guy (also makes him less valuable in certain settings, like ours), and even he didn't get a full length offer out of it. Small bigs who can't rebound and defend are a lot less attractive to non-Petries.
 
A lot of the media "experts" are chastising this deal because the Kings "passed on LILLARD?!?!?!" to take Trob.

Don't remember many being so aghast at draft time, Trob was considered a steal at #5 by most.
 
he didn't flash that kind of talent Circa. He was showing spurts of being a good hustle/athlete type player, no some sort of dominant goito guy.

Its like the Jimmer thing. Being great in college =/= being great in the pros. Jimmer best skill (shooting) translated. Not much else did. TRob's best skill (rebounding) was sputtering, but somewhat translating, and I thinik maybe in the future it will. But again, not much else has thus far.
Jimmer is in his 2nd year, T-rob is a rookie. The truth is neither one of you know for sure how their careers will end up. My guess is they both are a couple more players that will flourish eventually somewhere else.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
I doubt Patterson is going to get what JT does -- he's small. Now we in Sacto have been trained to believe small is valubale, but that's not how the rest of the league sees it. JT is a combo PF/C, and that's the more valuable player. And in particular now if Patterson joins a platoon with JT, his minutes and numbers will go down, and so will his eventual contract. Look at it this way -- Carl Landry, another one of the undersized PFs that Houston routinely produces and dumps on us (seriously -- Landry, Hayes, now Patterson? Even Kenny Thomas started in Houston. They have a factory, and we are the only consumer)...anyway, Landry is generally superior in that he is more of a goto guy (also makes him less valuable in certain settings, like ours), and even he didn't get a full length offer out of it. Small bigs who can't rebound and defend are a lot less attractive to non-Petries.
Oh, you're going to love Patterson. 6'9 my *** That's his listed height; I bet he's 6'7"; Patterson was small for a college power forward. Put him in there with Hayes at center, Salmons at the 3, Brooks or IT at the 1, and Thornton at the 2. What a dreamy lineup that is.
 
I doubt Patterson is going to get what JT does -- he's small. Now we in Sacto have been trained to believe small is valubale, but that's not how the rest of the league sees it. JT is a combo PF/C, and that's the more valuable player. And in particular now if Patterson joins a platoon with JT, his minutes and numbers will go down, and so will his eventual contract. Look at it this way -- Carl Landry, another one of the undersized PFs that Houston routinely produces and dumps on us (seriously -- Landry, Hayes, now Patterson? Even Kenny Thomas started in Houston. They have a factory, and we are the only consumer)...anyway, Landry is generally superior in that he is more of a goto guy (also makes him less valuable in certain settings, like ours), and even he didn't get a full length offer out of it. Small bigs who can't rebound and defend are a lot less attractive to non-Petries.
well it sucks to be patterson then, working hard for 3 years setting yourself up for a nice payday and boom your traded to the worst situation possible. who knows how his minutes will be worked in, they certainly wont be as consistant as they were in houston, not many guys have been traded to sac and played better, espcially in our non winning eras.

im sick of this tweener midget mindset petrie has been in, jimmer, thornton, hickson, hayes, salmons, brooks, IT, etc are all guys that are too short for their position.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
well it sucks to be patterson then, working hard for 3 years setting yourself up for a nice payday and boom your traded to the worst situation possible. who knows how his minutes will be worked in, they certainly wont be as consistant as they were in houston, not many guys have been traded to sac and played better, espcially in our non winning eras.

im sick of this tweener midget mindset petrie has been in, jimmer, thornton, hickson, hayes, salmons, brooks, IT, etc are all guys that are too short for their position.
2 more months, then win lose or draw this regime is going to be wiped clean off the map, and thank god. Its well deserved. If we can jsut keep the team in Sacto, it will be pretty exciting actually to see a new front office try to change the culture.
 
I like this trade. I think Patterson is a better PF than TRob. T Rob hands are so bad, I cringed when someone threw him a pass. He also had trouble holding on to rebounds. Also think Aldrich could provide a decent back up at center. Just hope the Kings stay.
 
2 more months, then win lose or draw this regime is going to be wiped clean off the map, and thank god. Its well deserved. If we can jsut keep the team in Sacto, it will be pretty exciting actually to see a new front office try to change the culture.
Interesting thought........... Sacramento Kings may not be the worst team to be traded to right now - the financial and management situation will make huge change for the better after this season end no matter where the team is. So there is hope for these guys. So lets not feel sorry for them.
 
S

sactownfan

Guest
I like this trade. I think Patterson is a better PF than TRob. T Rob hands are so bad, I cringed when someone threw him a pass. He also had trouble holding on to rebounds. Also think Aldrich could provide a decent back up at center. Just hope the Kings stay.
I'd have to agree... i like the trade... everyone here is just speculating that Robinson was being held back by Smart and our terrible coaching. But Robinson looked like his own worst enemy out there... he started off the summer trying to play like a PG by running the ball up the floor. something he still screws up which usually leads to a force at the rim or a TO. he's out of control doing anything other than WIDE open dunking. has no post moves. has an issue with taller NBA sized bigs on both ends. and considering his own size and athleticism gets bullied around too much on both ends... terrible defense... although gets a highlight block here and there...he shoots jumpers too much and at a terrible %, and has mikki moore hands....

i will say this JT took awhile to be a solid role player. I think a more explosive JT is Robinsons ceiling.

The saddest part isnt that Robinson wont be that all-star its that we missed out on All-stars to draft him. lilard or drumond (im not looking up how to spell anyones name). are total studs and we could have had them. bummer oh well... happens ...

Petrie is usually great at drafting and to be honest this Patterson is a sold player. he has a more polished game and could help cousins head (priceless)... he could be an equal talent to Robinson when its all said and done. this trade is a wash to me.

the part were all struggling with is accepting that we missed out on drafting all-stars not Robinson for Patterson i think
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
Oh, you're going to love Patterson. 6'9 my *** That's his listed height; I bet he's 6'7"; Patterson was small for a college power forward.
At the combine, Patterson measured out 0.25 inches taller than Robinson did (in bare feet) and had an extra inch of standing reach as well. Robinson did have an extra 2 inches of wingspan. Their standing vertical jump was the same. Robinson's two-step vertical was 2 inches better than Patterson's, giving him an absolute max reach of one inch better.

Point being, he's really not smaller than Robinson - he's probably a tiny bit bigger under most measurements.
 
Conflicted

I agree with the sentiment that the Maloofs are poisoning the well and stuffing their mattresses. The national media coverage is surprising perceptive, especially considering how inaccurate reporting of longer standing issues have existed.

I was not a very big Robinson fan. He had his strenghts. Great defensive potential. Rebounding. Hustle. Perhaps the jumper could have developed by what, 23 years old? I mean, I was worried about his ability to finish near the rim and, well, catch the damn ball, but his issues often seemed impacted by trying too hard, by rushing, and probably by not feeling comfortable with inadequate coaching, management, and ownership. Regardless, it was way too early to give up on a guy after investing that high on him. It's a no win situation in terms of PR, undermining their scouting either way.

Patterson certaintly has less upside but probably does fill that need for a stretch 4. I'm sure that Petrie is enamored with his "improvements," "versatility," and "ability to shoot the ball." I guess those are areas of relative strength. He has good length for his position but this doesn't seem to translate to defense or rebounding. A three man rotation of Cousins, Thompson, and Patterson is reasonable but not a significant improvement over that line up with Robinson, but at the cost of retaining a player with some star-like qualities.

The last few years have been such a remarkably toxic situation. It freaking makes me sick to think about how putrid the Maloof brothers are, these impulsive moves that are in short term interest. I swear they hired an ADHD coach because they like his "motor." Hey Keith Smart, how about letting a reporting finish a question for once before talking over him? Anyway, shame on the Maloofs (once again) for treating us fans this way for so long. How much shame can one family acrue? How does it feel to remain ridiculed by the national media? How do you live with yourselves, really?

Bah, just negative vibes in general. Once again, Kings are losers due to absolute ineptness by ownership and management. That's right Geoff, you're also completely pathetic.
 
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Kingster

Hall of Famer
At the combine, Patterson measured out 0.25 inches taller than Robinson did (in bare feet) and had an extra inch of standing reach as well. Robinson did have an extra 2 inches of wingspan. Their standing vertical jump was the same. Robinson's two-step vertical was 2 inches better than Patterson's, giving him an absolute max reach of one inch better.

Point being, he's really not smaller than Robinson - he's probably a tiny bit bigger under most measurements.
That's fine and dandy. But how big does he play? There's no way in hell he comes close to Robinson in playing over the rim. One reb per 5.5 minutes of play? That's just aweful.
 
2 more months, then win lose or draw this regime is going to be wiped clean off the map, and thank god. Its well deserved. If we can jsut keep the team in Sacto, it will be pretty exciting actually to see a new front office try to change the culture.
Yeah, I think we can ALL agree with this...in the end, we are just frustrated with the regime as a whole, and just want that feeling of a fresh start with supportive owners and a front office/coaching staff that has a clue.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
Two more months and then a switch could be flipped in the proper direction. Let's just hang on. The upside of a Burkle/Mastrov ownership in Sacramento is limited only by how much money they are willing to pay. As I said, let's hang on. This could be great especially with a great new arena. When's the last time anyone has put their butts in the seats of a great new arena with a respected team called the Kings on the hard wood. Never. Even in the Webb/Divac years we didn't have the arena.
 
I didn't read the whole thread but heard about this on radio and twitter. It is easy to bag on the Maloofs for grabbing $4 million bucks and running... and it has been ieasy for many years to pile on Geoff as a washed up sellout (I thought then and I think now that if he had any spine at all he would have walked when he was ordered to can Adelman).

But on the other hand, Robinson must have dropped for SOME reasons. I frankly am gonna decline to get outraged over this. In a few years, if TRob turns into something significant, then people can dig this up and throw it in my face. But teams don't let #5 pick bigs rot on the bench and then trade them for nothing... for no reason.

This trade is spare parts for spare parts as far as I'm concerned. Maybe Geoff did a bad job by not dumping Salmons into the deal though.
 
While the deal sucks, at least that is most of the damage that we copped from sorry clowns so its not too bad!

My biggest fear would have been trading Cousins and/or Evans as a final **** you to the fan base. We avoided that and got out of it OK-ish!

Now the ball is in KJ's court to get this thing done and keep the team here. Once we get new ownership, a new front office and coaching group, things will turn for the better. I think we will re-sign Cousins and Evans and probably keep JT.

We will try and dump a lot of the bad contracts and hopefully sign 2-3 free agents that will help us turn this thing around as soon as next season (Jack/Beno, AK47, Dally). Make no mistake that our new ownership group will be responsible with the money they spend and if we learnt anything from this trade period, its just how conscious owners are becoming of the new luxury tax.

While I don't like the trade, I will still take it because the clowns have not blown up the foundation going forward. The damage is minimal here and that is a good thing. With new ownership willing to spend some money, this team could become good very quickly....basically in one off-season. That is great news for us! Now KJ has to deliver the final dagger to the Magoofs and I am confident that he will!
 
after thinking about it for a day, i dont completely hate this anymore. yea trading a #5 pick for Patterson is not a good trade, but that just shows that Petrie ****ed up the draft, AGAIN. but the draft was done and over. and trading T-Rob for Patterson is actually a pretty good trade. i know T-Rob could possibly get a lot better. but hes always going to be undersized and never going to be a star
 
L

LWP777

Guest
Couple of thoughts here....first of all, this is one of the most schizophrenic boards in the history of the internet. All everybody has done for the past 3 months is ***** and moan about what a bust TRob has been and how horrible Garcia is. Even your leader Bricklayer has clearly called TRob a bust even after as little as 25 games played. So we cut our losses, traded TRob and 2 scrubs for a very decent player in Patterson, a backup big (who we needed) and a nobody shoot first PG.

Look up the term "sunk cost" and you'll understand why this trade was necessary. If you want to complain that we should have drafted Drummond or Lillard instead of TRob then that's a totally different thread. But dollar for dollar, we certainly didn't get raped in this deal. Just because he's a #5 pick doesn't mean jack. Don't forget, Sheldon Williams was a #5 pick and the Hawks gave up on him after a year or 2 also. He's now playing overseas. TRob showed that he had some HUGE question marks about becoming a force in this league. Hell, he doesn't even have a natural position.

To say this is a horrible trade is a huge stretch. Sure, maybe if a magic fairy visits TRob and makes him into something and he becomes a stud in 2 years then it's a bad trade. But valuing the trade in today's dollars, we got the better player.
 
Forgoing the idea that there was still uncertainty with Thompson's contract, why the heck did we even draft Robinson in the first place if we were just going to trade him midseason? I mean, we didn't even work him out or bring him in for tryouts. The two players that (hindsight) we should have drafted were both brought in, both did adequate to exceptional, and were both fairly high on our draft board. The fact is, the cash grabbing and terrible decisions just wholeheartedly define what it is to be a Kings fans in this era. We went through a TERRIBLE lockout year that lead us to essentially go through the entire 2012 Draft without a single player from there to show for it. Thank you, Petrie. For the Maloofs.
 
Petrie probably didn't envison being forced to trade him away mid year. It is what it is now, but this years draft was another failure. As a rebuilding team, it's killer to waste two lottery draft picks like that.
 
NBA on TNT:

Kenny Smith "the Kings have forwards, im not sure why they even drafted Thomas Robinson. they should have traded the #5 pick on draft day"

Charles Barkley "Its a great trade for Houston" "it will be good for Thomas Robinson to get away from those idiots in sacramento"
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
Couple of thoughts here....first of all, this is one of the most schizophrenic boards in the history of the internet. All everybody has done for the past 3 months is ***** and moan about what a bust TRob has been and how horrible Garcia is. Even your leader Bricklayer has clearly called TRob a bust even after as little as 25 games played. So we cut our losses, traded TRob and 2 scrubs for a very decent player in Patterson, a backup big (who we needed) and a nobody shoot first PG.

Look up the term "sunk cost" and you'll understand why this trade was necessary. If you want to complain that we should have drafted Drummond or Lillard instead of TRob then that's a totally different thread. But dollar for dollar, we certainly didn't get raped in this deal. Just because he's a #5 pick doesn't mean jack. Don't forget, Sheldon Williams was a #5 pick and the Hawks gave up on him after a year or 2 also. He's now playing overseas. TRob showed that he had some HUGE question marks about becoming a force in this league. Hell, he doesn't even have a natural position.

To say this is a horrible trade is a huge stretch. Sure, maybe if a magic fairy visits TRob and makes him into something and he becomes a stud in 2 years then it's a bad trade. But valuing the trade in today's dollars, we got the better player.

This isn't a case of homerism (though given the circumstances, I think a certain degree of that is justified anyway at this point) -- the majority of NBA analysists are not just calling this a bad deal, but a laughably bad deal. A historically bad deal even. And to understand why you have to look past the specific players involved. A player, let's call him Player X, was recently drafted 5th overall and is being reasonably productive in limited minutes. Using per36 stats, he's giving you production in line with a solid starting big -- 11pts, 10rebs, a block and a steal. The percentages are low, but he's still adjusting to the next level. If you believed in this guy enough to draft him 5th overall, than there's nothing in his production so far that screams "bust". The people who are making that claim are the same people who didn't like him pre-draft either. Garcia is an expiring contract. He has a team option not a player option so including him in the trade saves you only prorated salary for the next 27 games. He's a throw-in to make salaries match, that's it.

Now look at what you're getting back. Aldrich is a young big on the third year of his rookie contract and still averaging less than 10 minutes a game. This will be his third NBA team. His fourth year option was already declined (a pretty good indication of what Houston thinks of him) so he's going to be an unrestricted free agent. In other words, he's filler. Maybe he sticks and you have to pay to keep him. Even then he's not an asset. You didn't have to give anything up to sign him in the off-season. Toney Douglas is basically the mirror image of every other career journeyman our front office has targeted for regrettable mid-level deals in the past because we have money to spend and we can't get any real free agents to come here. And as a restricted free agent in the off-season, that seems to be exactly where he's headed next. More filler.

And then there's Patrick Patterson, a classic case of a guy putting up numbers because his team just recently gutted their roster and someone has to get minutes at PF. He's basically the same player as the guy you're trading except a whole level of talent down (mid first round pick) and without any of the upside. Let's look at his per36 numbers -- 16pts, 6.5rebs, 0.5stls, 0.8 blocks. He has better percentages, but this is also his third go-round. The scoring is up because he can shoot the three. Is that really what you want out of your PF when you have a 20point scorer at the C position? But all in all I'd say the production is a wash. Give Robinson, err Player X, the same minutes and he'd be putting up similar production, as seen above. The real killer here is that Robinson has 3 more years left on his cost-controlled rookie deal (the best value contract in the league) while Patterson has one.

So... would anybody in their right mind trade 3 years worth of production from a #5 pick for one year of production from a #14 pick? Sure there may be exceptions where guys surpassed expectations, but this is not a star player we're talking about. He's league average for a mid first rounder. Which is why there may be all sorts of varying opinions about whether or not Thomas Robinson is a star in the making, but it's pretty damn unanimous that this trade was bush league, even for our oft-parodied front office. Waive a candy bar in front of a 6 year old and you might get them to fall for something like this, but these are paid professionals we're talking about here. I've been critical of Petrie in the past, but there's a point where criticism just doesn't suffice. If your job is NBA GM and you approve this deal than there's no sense even trying to correct you anymore you just live on a different planet from reality.

PS -- I agree with Kenny that it was a puzzling decision to draft Robinson in the first place, especially when your next move was to re-sign Jason Thompson to a 5 year deal. Roster-wise it made no sense. Which means it was a pure BPA decision. Even more reason why dealing him in the middle of his rookie season is an open admission that you're terrible at your job.