[Game] 10/10/13 - Kings @ Lakers (in Las Vegas) - pre-season 7:00 PDT

[Livinthedream]

There are multiple ways to score with dribble penetration. One is to just be really good around the basket. Another is to be such threat to make a great pass in the paint that the defense has to stay flat footed, giving you an easier scoring opportunity. Vasquez is the latter. In the attached video at the 10 second and 1:20 mark, Vasquez scores on Roy Hibbert because Hibbert is worried about the pass. The flaw in Vasquez's game is on the defensive end, period. There should not really be much of a question about his ability to play his role as a pg on the offensive end.

 

[spudfan]

He probably did, actually. Isaiah had a pretty bad game tonight. He was only credited with 2 TOs, but I remember a stretch where he had 3 silly TOs on 3 straight possessions. He had at least 5 TOs. IT had more assists but he got burned defensively at times, McCallum was solid and played better defense. And that's coming from someone who thinks McCallums play is being grossly overestimated so far, even though he has done well for a 2nd round pick.

I know you're a massive IT fan, but there's no harm in admitting when he's had a below par game.

IT showed us both sides of his game last night. He opened with 5 assists in the first 3 minutes of the game and then in his remaining 12 minutes in the first half he did not record a single assist. The second half he had 3 assists right away, then another assist coming out of a time out. During both those stretches we outplayed the Lakers. Both were after delays in the game too where I suspect he got some good coaching, and followed it. If he can think pass first as he did when we made runs he will look a lot more consistent I think.

Unfortunately, besides those two spurts he had a poor game. To start the game vs Nash IT looked helpless trying to stick with him. Those 3 possessions in a row with turnovers were terrible (all from over-dribbling, not passing). He only forced a couple shots which was an improvement for him, but were still bad shots. When the Lakers made a run in the third it was due to the defense of Jimmer/IT being exploited since neither could cover their guys. The first 10 points the Lakers scored was against Jimmer/IT.

When Ray and Ben came in is when we started to blow out the Lakers as they couldn't get an easy look and our shots were all falling. I think Ray's defense was the difference maker in the run during the blowout. I also think that his offense isn't good enough right now to let him jump over IT as we need scoring in the starting lineup. Down the line I don't see why Ray couldn't be a starter on a team whose best players were not at the PG position. I also think that IT is a 6th man type bench player, but at the moment he fits better in our starting lineup until we get our guard situation figured out.

Ray has lots of promise and lots of us are excited about that. I think I have only seen one person say he should be the starter though. I hope people who are reading our comments about his game looking good take into consideration most of us are evaluating his play as a rookie guard, new to the league, and not from the perspective that he is an all-star player.

edit: My comment about needing scoring in the starting lineup was in reference to IT vs Ray, right now, in this game we just played. I am not opposed to start Greivis over both of them and would prefer it.

 

[dude12]

Some good points being made....I think besides the rookies being exciting for the apparent potential, I think the team itself is intriguing because of the new coaching staff. Even though its been only 2 games, it appears to all that there is a plan in place both offensively and defensively......execution, called timeouts when your supposed to make em, players working their tails off in rotations, you know like regular teams.

So what makes me curious is if some of the veteran players can play to the best of their abilities. The Outlaw performance was impressive.....played like he used to at Portland. Now I'm not saying he's going to do this over and over but if the staff can get better performances out of the vets, that WOULD be something cause Smart probably got the worst out of many of the players.

A bunch of what ifs....what if Hayes actually played like he did in Houston when he was a rebounding and defensive role playing big and was actually valuable to that team. Salmons has had some good stretches in his career.....mainly with other teams. What if Cousins can put up efficient stat lines? Malone sure wanted Landry on the team. What if he can get Landry to put up similar numbers off the bench like he did or GS last year? All the while, watching the young players improve.

 

[spudfan]

Some good points being made....I think besides the rookies being exciting for the apparent potential, I think the team itself is intriguing because of the new coaching staff. Even though its been only 2 games, it appears to all that there is a plan in place both offensively and defensively......execution, called timeouts when your supposed to make em, players working their tails off in rotations, you know like regular teams.

So what makes me curious is if some of the veteran players can play to the best of their abilities. The Outlaw performance was impressive.....played like he used to at Portland. Now I'm not saying he's going to do this over and over but if the staff can get better performances out of the vets, that WOULD be something cause Smart probably got the worst out of many of the players.

A bunch of what ifs....what if Hayes actually played like he did in Houston when he was a rebounding and defensive role playing big and was actually valuable to that team. Salmons has had some good stretches in his career.....mainly with other teams. What if Cousins can put up efficient stat lines? Malone sure wanted Landry on the team. What if he can get Landry to put up similar numbers off the bench like he did or GS last year? All the while, watching the young players improve.

I have been feeling rather optimistic so figured this is how the team would turn out and perform this season. The pessimistic side of me gets nervous though, as I think if all goes as you have mentioned I can see us right outside playoff range which would probably hurt more than it would help as I see us needing one more good draft to be a playoff level team.

 

[VF21]

Padrino - I love your new signature.

 

[Glenn]

Seems like most people have noticed the team functioning better on offense and defense. I realize it probably is time to put the past behind us but all this has occurred after two weeks of practice. Two weeks!!! How many years have been wasted??? I'm not going to predict an NBA championship but what happens after an entire season of this coaching?

Take Outlaw for example. Is this something we can expect every once and awhile? I don't remember a game last year where he shot this well and looked so comfortable on the court. It's a matter of putting a guy in the best place to succeed, I presume. We could go up and down the lineup and wonder.

Jimmer is a shooter. Let us not push him into being anything more than that. The fact Malone had him at sg is reassuring.

What about the rest? How about Salmons? He has already been mentioned so I don't need to say what his potential is. He might actually become a decent player on this team. He won't be a world beater but one who will give a steady amount of defense and offense and perhaps lose the nickname of "fish." Perhaps he won't be the butt of jokes.

The Chuckster is what he is: he's a short center with limited offense but good court vision, good passing (remember?), and good rebounding. He's also a vet and could be and perhaps already is a decent locker room guy.

Cousins seems to have embraced the leadership role, the center of the team kind of role. So far. I expect a flare or two of his temper but not as much as the first few years as now he is playing on a real live team. I suspect he respects Malone and I think that is the key for Cousins. Now he can get that low post game going .... I hope.

I'll make the hair stand up on some people's necks but maybe our GM was a smaller problem than we thought. Perhaps he gave his coach players and the coach couldn't make use of them. That's just my guess and I don't want to start a debate over it.

In all, I feel better and didn't expect to feel better to this degree. We have had the briefest of times to analyze this team and its coach but to me, there is a very large change. I saw a locally sponsored NBA team on the court last night.

 

[The_Jamal]

I agree that he didn't outplay IT tonight, but he certainly held his own, and did nothing to make me believe he can't be a starting PG in the NBA. In the first game, yes, McCallum outplayed IT. I'm referring to the offensive side of the ball of course. On the defensive side, he's outplayed IT in both games. To IT's credit, I thought he made a concerted effort to distribute the ball last night, and produced nine assists. Whats lost on some folks is that McCallum is just as good an athlete as IT. Just bigger. And while some people may be over estimating how fast he'll rise up the ranks, they're not over estimating his ability. If he had played at UCLA, or Kentucky, he would have been a first round pick. Because you played in a lesser conference, it doesn't mean you don't have elite skills.

I know that IT has his fan base just as Tyreke did. Personally, I'm fine with IT. I just don't see him as a starting PG in the league. I do see him as a great change of pace PG off the bench. I admire his moxey and determation, but I've yet to see any undersized PG not have that same attitude. It seems to come with the size. The ultimate question down the road for the Kings won't be choosing between McCallum and IT. It will be choosing between Vasquez and IT. Simply because both are going to be restricted freeagents at seasons end. I sincerely doubt that the Kings will try and keep both. Its also possible that they'll keep neither. Should be interesting..

Agree with everything you said. McCallum to me, looks like he could step-in right away as a back-up PG and be successful. Very composed, good defender, good ball-handler, making pretty good decisions with passing. Whether or not he can develop his scoring game will determine if he can be a starter or not.

Still, it's pretty exciting to be able to see all of this in a 2nd round pick already.

 

[pshn80]

Agree with everything you said. McCallum to me, looks like he could step-in right away as a back-up PG and be successful. Very composed, good defender, good ball-handler, making pretty good decisions with passing. Whether or not he can develop his scoring game will determine if he can be a starter or not.

Still, it's pretty exciting to be able to see all of this in a 2nd round pick already.

Yes, it is pretty exciting. That's the fun of it for me, that and knowing the pleasure such occurrence brings to the coaches and other players. Better is always better than worse. And, in a way, to a small but significant extent it takes some pressure off everyone else. And what if Vasquez turns out to be a diamond in the rough.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

It's a matter of putting a guy in the best place to succeed, I presume. We could go up and down the lineup and wonder.

Bingo. As much as the NBA game is about matchups and the strategy that goes into it, there is way too much overthinking that goes on with guys being moved out of the position that they've learned to play the game at.

Jimmer is not a point gaurd. Salmons is not a forward. Outlaw is certainly no four.

You end up with a bunch of guys dazed and confused. If you don't have room for another shooting gaurd, don't sign another darn shooting gaurd and force him to play forward

 

[Kingsfan23]

I'm curious, just how do you set up an offense to inflate your PG's assists stats? You say that as though what Vasquez did was a bad thing. If its so easy, then why didn't we do it to help Tyreke, or IT? All a PG can do is get the ball to a teammate that's open and then hope he scores. So unless they designed a funnel to the basket, I'm not sure exactly how you do what your implying. I find it strange that you say you don't like Vasquez, and you haven't even seen him play on our team yet. That's like saying you don't like spinach when you've never tasted it.

Personally, I've got nothing to say about Vasquez one way or the other in regards to our team. After I've seen him play a few games, then maybe I'll have an opinion. I know I liked him at Maryland, but really haven't followed him that closely since he's been in the NBA. At Maryland he was a fiery, tough, in your face type of player that took no guff from anyone, along with being a hard worker that hated to lose. Now none of that makes him a great player, but they are the attributes of a great player.

Im paraphrasing what I read.. I read that the N.O. system was especially conducive for pg's picking up assists.. I'm paraphrasing now because I don't feel like retrieving this, but supposedly a third string scrub stepped in last season when Vasquez was out and was averaging around the same clip of assists as him for a stretch of games

 

[rainmaker]

Thompson has the ugliest looking footwork in the NBA, bar none. The fact that some of his low post moves produce points is a micacle of epic proportions that has not been reported by the secular media. If he were on Dancing with the Stars it would be hilarious. His position on the team is safe, if only for the fact that he is taller than 6'6".

Sounds like Bill Walton typed this post.

 

[bajaden]

Sounds like Bill Walton typed this post.

A little known secret, is that Kingster actually is Bill Walton! Shhh! Don't tell anyone. Kingster will get mad at me!

 

[Padrino]

Padrino - I love your new signature.

i certainly thought it was appropriate heading into this new season. i may be considerably more skeptical of the new regime's strategy than a great many others here at kf.com, but that doesn't mean i don't appreciate that there is a new era of kings basketball in which to hope for the best...