Vlade4GM
All-Star
I don't think there is anything sad about it.
07 Draft Realistic pick
- Thread starter =LarryLegend=
- Start date
I don't think there is anything sad about it.
Oh, there is definitely a lot to be sad about if, as Merdiesel said, the only thing Kings fans can look forward to is the draft.
And I know this goes against the prevailing opinion of a lot of people but I'm still not convinced that pinning all your hopes on an upcoming lottery drawing is anything worth getting really excited over.
People keep bringing up Tim Duncan as though he's the proof that tanking and rebuilding through the draft is the key to success. Well, I'm not buying it sight unseen...
If you look at the teams that have actually won the championship with a top draft pick, I don't think there are that many.
It's gotten to the point where I'm beginning to wonder if the emperor's new clothes are really that impressive...
rhythmless
Starter
if its not the draft, then FA or trades. i dont see any marquee young talent free agents that we could get our hands on.
wallace
mo williams
darko (restricted)
wallace
mo williams
darko (restricted)
Chim Richulds
Prospect
Drafting Acie Law would make sense, due to the team need of a backup PG and the coming (either this summer or 2 years at max) loss of Mike Bibby. However, I'd like more of a crafty passer for the Kings - other than Brad Miller it's something they truly lack, and overall poor team ball movement has become a persistent problem. Unfortunately, this draft is lacking such, unless we go for a Mustafa Shakur in the second round, but I have absolutely no faith in him.
Like most, I'm losing faith in McRoberts. I was high on him earlier in the year but he has disappointed time and time again. The stats are there, but watching him play shows he has alot to learn, and some things just can't be taught. I'm pulling for him to show some upside in the tournament, as I remain favorable of his capabilities and assets.
In summary, I'm currently undecided as to who the Kings should draft. This tournament, as usual, should be telling. And as always, I'm hoping Petrie gets some extra picks come draft day...
Like most, I'm losing faith in McRoberts. I was high on him earlier in the year but he has disappointed time and time again. The stats are there, but watching him play shows he has alot to learn, and some things just can't be taught. I'm pulling for him to show some upside in the tournament, as I remain favorable of his capabilities and assets.
In summary, I'm currently undecided as to who the Kings should draft. This tournament, as usual, should be telling. And as always, I'm hoping Petrie gets some extra picks come draft day...
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Er...you mean except like virtually all of them? Magic = #1 (5 titles), Hakeem = #1 (2 titles), Duncan = #1 (3 titles) (and Robinson #1 for 2 of those), Zeke = #1 (2 titles), Michael = #3 (6 titles) and you might as well throw the Shaq Lakers in there too. He was a #1 (4 titles) that they, and only they, could ever have bought. Throw in Wade (#5) 1 title (with Shaq) and Bird (#7) and you have every title of the last 25 years accounted for there except for Detroit of 3 years ago and the '82 Sixers (largely built with ex-ABA superstars).
Vlade4GM
All-Star
I don't think people are arguing that it's a perfect solution only that it's the best most realistic solution. It's a natural and an inevitable process. The team we have right now is the result of when an org. refuses to accept that fact.
You're listing by player. I'm going to see if I can explain what I was thinking after I do some checking...
Bear with me. I could easily be all wrong but I was going from the perspective of the teams.
I'll get back to you either way.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
i actually liked how mcroberts played tonoght and i wouldnt want him, but i wouldnt be upset if we drafted him, i like fazekas to.. he kinda like okur.. deffinetly a "kings type" player.. im not sure if we have any second round picked but we should think about sean williams (suspended from BC earlier in the year) .. he's an absolure beast on D
I hope these are right:
2006 Andrea Bargnani - Toronto Raptors
2005 Andrew Bogut - Milwaukee Bucks
2004 Dwight Howard - Orlando Magic
2003 LeBron James - Cleveland Cavaliers
2002 Yao Ming - Houston Rockets
2001 Kwame Brown - Washington Wizards
2000 Kenyon Martin - New Jersey Nets
1999 Elton Brand - Chicago Bulls
1998 Michael Olowokandi - Los Angeles Clippers
1997 Tim Duncan - San Antonio Spurs
1996 Allen Iverson - Philadelphia 76ers
1995 Joe Smith - Golden State Warriors
1994 Glenn Robinson - Milwaukee Bucks
1993 Chris Webber - Golden State Warriors
1992 Shaquille O'Neal - Orlando Magic
1991 Larry Johnson - Charlotte Hornets
1990 Derrick Coleman - New Jersey Nets
The point I was trying to make was that, with the notable exception of Tim Duncan, the teams who drafted #1 didn't go on to success because of their draft selection. Any success those players achieved was, for the most part, after they had been traded to other teams.
2006 Andrea Bargnani - Toronto Raptors
2005 Andrew Bogut - Milwaukee Bucks
2004 Dwight Howard - Orlando Magic
2003 LeBron James - Cleveland Cavaliers
2002 Yao Ming - Houston Rockets
2001 Kwame Brown - Washington Wizards
2000 Kenyon Martin - New Jersey Nets
1999 Elton Brand - Chicago Bulls
1998 Michael Olowokandi - Los Angeles Clippers
1997 Tim Duncan - San Antonio Spurs
1996 Allen Iverson - Philadelphia 76ers
1995 Joe Smith - Golden State Warriors
1994 Glenn Robinson - Milwaukee Bucks
1993 Chris Webber - Golden State Warriors
1992 Shaquille O'Neal - Orlando Magic
1991 Larry Johnson - Charlotte Hornets
1990 Derrick Coleman - New Jersey Nets
The point I was trying to make was that, with the notable exception of Tim Duncan, the teams who drafted #1 didn't go on to success because of their draft selection. Any success those players achieved was, for the most part, after they had been traded to other teams.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Very true. Good job on the research.
Bron, Dwight, and Yao will probably get championships. Smith, Kwame, and Olowokandi were busts. Shaq and CWebb were definitely franchise players.
I dunno, maybe you don't need the first pick but a lot of superstars were picked in the lottery. Look at KG, TMac, Amare, etc. Those guys weren't the 1st pick but they were lottery picks. So the objective isn't "get the #1 pick", it's "get the most talented big man you can".
Vlade4GM
All-Star
why just the #1 picks? if it were me i'd take the top 7 players of each draft and see how many franchise players there are and i'd determine that probably by just common sense. just because the team that drafted them didn't win a championship doesn't make them incapable of being a cornerstone of a championship run. one player alone can't win a championship, your logic assumes that front office built around them properly.
Why just the #1 picks? Because that was the only observation I was making.
It's not all or nothing in this kind of stuff. We're all just speculating. I added another piece of information you can take for whatever it's worth. If you want to take a different set of statistics and interpret them a different way, be my guest.
Take a look at Sun Yue. It seems unlikely that we could pick him up (I am thinking that Orlando has our 2nd round pick, by way of Utah), but he might be a good addition of the type you're talking about.
http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/sunyue.html
RaY Z
Starter
i still want haseem thabeet...!
were like number 9 now in the draft i think if u update this..
http://www.nbadraft.net
as long as we stay in this position or higher ill be happy =)
were like number 9 now in the draft i think if u update this..
http://www.nbadraft.net
as long as we stay in this position or higher ill be happy =)
I had heard a lot of positive statements about Thabeet, but lately have seen some very critical stuff as well, with people questioning whether he will ever approach his presumed upside, and suggesting that he might go as late as a ways into the second round because of it. A good example is here: http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1832
I don't like trying to reach any definite conclusions about guys who I haven't seen play at least 3 or 4 games, so I don't know what to think about Thabeet anymore. If some of you have seen a lot of his games, would you care to comment?
I don't like trying to reach any definite conclusions about guys who I haven't seen play at least 3 or 4 games, so I don't know what to think about Thabeet anymore. If some of you have seen a lot of his games, would you care to comment?
GoGoGadget
All-Star
The reason your post was questioned, I think, is because the argument is not now, nor has it ever been, that every single lottery pick will definitely and immediately go on to lead a team to a championship. Doesn't work that way, and no one is suggesting that it does/will/should.
However, every single team that has won a championship over the last however many years (with a couple exceptions already noted) has been led by at least one such draft pick.
Therefore, logic would dictate that if you're looking to eventually win a championship, a team that is otherwise going NOWHERE (and, unless your opinion has drastically changed over the last month or so, I think you can agree that's where we're headed) has a better chance at success if they go for broke and try to get one of those picks -- especially this year, when it's looking as though there may be several of these franchise altering players just ripe for the plucking -- than sitting on their hands and watching someone else get them. THAT's the argument. May not work that way. Maybe Oden stays in college. Maybe he's a bust. Maybe he plays two games before falling apart completely. Who knows? When all you've got to lose is another 1st round thumping by a ridiculously strong team, you should take the risk. I do not particularly look forward to being the catnip team that Dallas bats around to get all giddy for their title run.
And, for the record, it's not sad when all you've got to look forward to is the draft. It's sad when you no longer even have that.
rhythmless
Starter
im still very high on yi jianlian, and were still at about the spot where he is expected to go.
some recent info on yi
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=44
some recent info on yi
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=44
Here is who I like for the Kings, that are all possible to being in the draft.
Bigs
- Darrell Arthur
- Hasheem Thabeet
- Josh McRoberts
- Herbert Hill
- Roy Hibbert
- Joey Dorsey
- Tiago Splitter
Wings
- Al Thornton
- Thaddeus Young
- Jeff Green
- Acie Law
- Luc Richard M'bah a. Moute
- Corey Brewer
- Alando Tucker
Thus, meaning not Yi Jianlian/Spencer Hawes - not liking either of them for the Kings. They both have good height and offensive talent, but they all lack at least two of the things we are missing...
Defense - Not really. Below average-average at best from both.
Rebounding - Not really.
Athleticism - Some from Jianlian.
None of them seem to be too strong on insde play, for the short-term and probably long-term. I think Hawes should stay another year or two and work on his defense and adding some mass to his body.
We shouldn't and I don't expect the Kings to select either. Mostly being the complete opposite of what the team has not had for years now.
Bigs
- Darrell Arthur
- Hasheem Thabeet
- Josh McRoberts
- Herbert Hill
- Roy Hibbert
- Joey Dorsey
- Tiago Splitter
Wings
- Al Thornton
- Thaddeus Young
- Jeff Green
- Acie Law
- Luc Richard M'bah a. Moute
- Corey Brewer
- Alando Tucker
Thus, meaning not Yi Jianlian/Spencer Hawes - not liking either of them for the Kings. They both have good height and offensive talent, but they all lack at least two of the things we are missing...
Defense - Not really. Below average-average at best from both.
Rebounding - Not really.
Athleticism - Some from Jianlian.
None of them seem to be too strong on insde play, for the short-term and probably long-term. I think Hawes should stay another year or two and work on his defense and adding some mass to his body.
We shouldn't and I don't expect the Kings to select either. Mostly being the complete opposite of what the team has not had for years now.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Much as we need rebounding, you do not pass on a Dirk or Pau type player for a less talented guy just over rebounding. If indeed of course that's what the guy is going to turn out to be. If you're up high enough to draft that kind of talent, you have to go for it. Ditto for a Brandon Wright if we were lucky enough to have a shot at him, or a Kevin Durant is might be more of a SF than a big. We need rebounding in the worst way, but if we get a prime pick, we've just got to take the player most likely to be a star, regardless of the warts fo that particular star. and what posiitn he plays, or his style of play, strengths, weak nesse etc. is all secondary. We need to score a star. Tehn make other moves based upon what holes he patches or opens up. Don;t want to be the team that drafts Joe Kleine ahead of Karl Malone again.
I don't think YJL has that much potential though. Wasn't Wang Zhizhi a star over there too?
He still is. That's what everyone wants to know about YJL: is he just a pretty good player in a weak league, or is he the real thing? Teams who are interested will need to try him out.
You make good points. And I'm definitely in agreement we're headed nowhere - in the fast lane.
As this season winds inexorably down to the end, it seems the team - in spite of Musselman's "best" efforts - is going to play the type of basketball that will pretty much guarantee us a decent draft pick anyway. Those few games without Artest where they actually looked like a team and played an inspired type of TEAM game were most likely an aberration created simply to torture poor Kings fans ...
When all is said and done, therefore, I think the bottom line is going to be the same. We'll get a decent draft pick.
