Zach Lowe dumps on Kings - in other news, water is wet

[BeerNerd916]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiret...rading-Up-For-Marvin-Bagley-III-Jaren-Jackson

Fyi for those who posted after the draft that nobody else was drooling over Bags

 

[NYKingsfan]

My guess is that Vlade had Bagley on Doncic equal. If so, he took the guy that fit better with Fox and was not redundant to Bogdan. If you have both prospects rated evenly it makes sense then to go fit.

 

[sactowndog]

It was certainly rock bottom for me. I want nothing to do with this team now until Vlade is gone. Not because he passed on Luka Doncic, that was just the last straw for me. Things were already heading in that direction all season long. What hit me hardest is the realization that this is maybe the best chance this franchise is ever going to have to land a franchise player and they blew it (in my opinion). Totally stared down the barrel and choked. He could have picked 6 other guys at that spot that aren't Luka Doncic and I would have stuck around. Bagley is not the answer.

It'll take years for the gravity of this decision to become clear but that's where this is headed. I'm not interested in ruining anyone else's day or harping on and on about my reasons why. I'm just done. I can't stomach anymore. I'm sure Blob or whoever will prance around in my absence claiming victory, I don't care. You can continue to believe that the rest of the world has got it out for Kings fans if you like. I'll just let Occam's razor sort that one out.

I think you should wait and see how Giles and Bagley pan out before making your decision. You could well be right and 1-2 years from now would be the time to say it. Now might possibly be a tad premature.

 

[24 rick barry]

He shoots like Steph and he's big like Klay-Vivek referring to Stauskus.
76ers fleecing of the kings for salary cap room to sign Rondo, Bellenelli, and koufos.
Papa G could be an allstar... potential to be a new Marc Gasol...
I had a better deal 2 days ago.
Now it is:
Bagley can play 3 and
Superteam-just young.


I think one can question Vlade's credibility as a general manager. One can also question of what version of the plan that they are onto now.
Though, I am confident that the decisions are made in a group setting including Vlade and staff, Matina and Vivek with Vivek -the owner having the ultimate say. I think we would have been better served with a Jerry West, Sam Hinke, or Danny Ferry as GM. However, since Vivek wants control of the process and final decision making, we would have what some would call a figurehead-legwork guy-goodwill ambassador, with the owner making the ultimate decision. I'm afraid this guy is Vlade. Love the guy but not as GM.

 

[VF21]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1010933314532749312

 

[jcassio]

Anyone who wants to leave, I'll be sorry to see you go. But as sactowndog said to hrdboild, leaving now may be a tad premature. Shouldn't we all root for the Kings for (at least) this next season and then see where we stand? Rebuilds are hard. And what successful NBA franchise gives up on a top draft pick after one season (who isn't T-Rob or Stauskas)? Doncic was my first pick, but it didn't go that way. Oh well. I will adjust and root for Bags. Vlade doesn't give me much confidence in our front office, but turning to a new GM and (likely) a new coaching staff now would give us a PR disaster we'd never recover from. We are in this boat together. You wanna jump out, good luck. But you're not taking any of our provisions.

 

[Sactown ExPat]

Bagley’s Puma deal is an underrated facet of this pick. Puma is going to make Bagley and Ayton the cornerstones of their brand, and the fact Puma brought in Jay-Z means they are planning a major marketing push right away. I think our team, and the Suns, are going to be very popular with the younger fans very soon.

 

[dude12]

With any franchise there are moves and transactions and things said that you can go back and ridicule.....it’s just with some of the current successful ones, some of the moves that may not have worked out so well don’t become magnified because the core parts are already in place and they win.

For some of the franchises trying to get out of the lower tier of things, every move gets overanalyzed. Here’s a different way at looking things instead of the negative perceptions some just want to wallow in.
Last 2 years
Bogdan Bogdanovich
Buddy Hield
D’Aaron Fox
Harry Giles
Marvin Bagley
Bench guys Mason, Justin Jackson, Skal

If players start delivering on potential, pretty damn impressive in 2 years. The wait is the toughest part but there are some hard working kids in that group to go with a good coaching staff and a stabilized front office. It’s exciting or you can go the national media route or be like Zach Lowe and Jay Bills and talk out of your a##

 

[datamanwes]

He shoots like Steph and he's big like Klay-Vivek referring to Stauskus.
76ers fleecing of the kings for salary cap room to sign Rondo, Bellenelli, and koufos.
Papa G could be an allstar... potential to be a new Marc Gasol...
I had a better deal 2 days ago.
Now it is:
Bagley can play 3 and
Superteam-just young.


I think one can question Vlade's credibility as a general manager. One can also question of what version of the plan that they are onto now.
Though, I am confident that the decisions are made in a group setting including Vlade and staff, Matina and Vivek with Vivek -the owner having the ultimate say. I think we would have been better served with a Jerry West, Sam Hinke, or Danny Ferry as GM. However, since Vivek wants control of the process and final decision making, we would have what some would call a figurehead-legwork guy-goodwill ambassador, with the owner making the ultimate decision. I'm afraid this guy is Vlade. Love the guy but not as GM.

I am interested in knowing who you are that you know how the inner workings of the Front office work? Since you said once that Vivek wants control of the process and has final decision making as well as making the ultimate decision? That is a lot of inside information that is being written about as fact.

 

[Cojc]

I have not stop rooting for the kings since they moved to Sacramento. I remember all the losing seasons and still bought my season tickets year after year.
I moved to Colorado in 1998 and Wow alot of you got to see the great run the team had and I got to see them on tv and went to the nuggets to watch the kings once again a year.
I plan on seeing them in Cleveland this next season.

Maybe some of the folks should be thankful we still have a team in Sacramento or maybe I just like a underdog as I find myself watching more browns games the last couple of years and never the Lebron Cavs.

 

[24 rick barry]

With any franchise there are moves and transactions and things said that you can go back and ridicule.....it’s just with some of the current successful ones, some of the moves that may not have worked out so well don’t become magnified because the core parts are already in place and they win.

For some of the franchises trying to get out of the lower tier of things, every move gets overanalyzed. Here’s a different way at looking things instead of the negative perceptions some just want to wallow in.
Last 2 years
Bogdan Bogdanovich- bogy is what 25, and Chris is 20 years old
Buddy Hield- for Damarcus?
D’Aaron Fox- instead of the 3rd pick-which was Tatum?
Harry Giles-didn't play last year despite management saying he would be playing in Jan, hasn't played meaningful minutes in 2 1/2 years, injury prone?
Marvin Bagley-how many 19 year old have made a difference in their first season in the last 20 years with the exception of Lebron, plus, foul line, 3 point shooting, defense, in a league that is becoming more and more 3 crazy?
Bench guys Mason, Justin Jackson, Skal-like you said bench guys.

If players start delivering on potential, pretty damn impressive in 2 years. SUPER TEAM? The wait is the toughest part but there are some hard working kids in that group to go with a good coaching staff and a stabilized front office. It’s exciting or you can go the national media route or be like Zach Lowe and Jay Bills and talk out of your a##

Waiting in excess of 12 years bud.

 

[gunks]

I generally have no problem with people trashing the Kings. Until this franchise gives sports writers something good to talk about, it deserves the negative press.

However, blasting the pick is a bit premature. Bagley could be a stud in the making! I really wanted Doncic, but I'm gonna stick around and see how we do next season. Fox and Bagley could be a nasty one two punch in a few years.

 

[24 rick barry]

dude12 said:

With any franchise there are moves and transactions and things said that you can go back and ridicule.....it’s just with some of the current successful ones, some of the moves that may not have worked out so well don’t become magnified because the core parts are already in place and they win.

For some of the franchises trying to get out of the lower tier of things, every move gets overanalyzed. Here’s a different way at looking things instead of the negative perceptions some just want to wallow in.
Last 2 years
Bogdan Bogdanovich- bogy is what 25, and Chris is 20 years old
Buddy Hield- for Damarcus?
D’Aaron Fox- instead of the 3rd pick-which was Tatum?
Harry Giles-didn't play last year despite management saying he would be playing in Jan, hasn't played meaningful minutes in 2 1/2 years, injury prone?
Marvin Bagley-how many 19 year old have made a difference in their first season in the last 20 years with the exception of Lebron, plus, foul line, 3 point shooting, defense, in a league that is becoming more and more 3 crazy?
Bench guys Mason, Justin Jackson, Skal-like you said bench guys.

If players start delivering on potential, pretty damn impressive in 2 years. SUPER TEAM? The wait is the toughest part but there are some hard working kids in that group to go with a good coaching staff and a stabilized front office. It’s exciting or you can go the national media route or be like Zach Lowe and Jay Bills and talk out of your a##


With regard to Bagley, yes, we will see. He is 19 and deserves the benefit of the doubt. I do not know him as a player and therefore can only look at his stats.

Seems to me that you now have Koufos, Willie, ZBO, Skal, Giles, Bagley to share time at 4 and 5. ZBO- a true 4, is the only one who we know at this point is a 3 point shooter. Seeing as though the league is more and more 3 point centric, these bigs seem to limit your offensive choices, don't you think?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I generally have no problem with people trashing the Kings. Until this franchise gives sports writers something good to talk about, it deserves the negative press.

However, blasting the pick is a bit premature. Bagley could be a stud in the making! I really wanted Doncic, but I'm gonna stick around and see how we do next season. Fox and Bagley could be a nasty one two punch in a few years.

I (have no choice but to) hope that Marvin makes everyone eat their words.

Also I'm sure if we picked Doncic they'd still find reason to hate us. Say everyone had him falling, etc. etc.

 

[Deb M]

Just my 2-cents...

I think there were behind-the-scenes reasons Vlade & Co passed on Doncic. I've read (or heard) in a few places which mentioned "maturity issues". I tend to lean toward Vlade knowing some back story or info that raised red flags. I also heard/read in an interview where Doncic specifically says he "wants to play point guard"...I can see where that could lead to 'fights over the ball'. Fox is our PG - face of the franchise, Bogi is secondary playmaker...Gotta roll with that!

I admire the organization for not caving into fan's demands (a la George Karl), especially knowing the possibility of losing some ticket sales.

fwiw, I did hear Bagley in an interview say he can "play the 3", so who knows...

Having said all that, I wish Vlade would stop speaking at press conferences (!)

Honestly, I just hope these youngins come out with huge chips on their shoulders and ball out!

Hoping competition with Bagley will light a fire under WCS -- Skal too.

Can't wait for California Classic/Summer League! [Harry please don't get hurt!!]

GO KINGS!

 

[burekijogurt]

dude12 said:


Bogdan Bogdanovich- bogy is what 25, and Chris is 20 years old
Buddy Hield- for Damarcus?
D’Aaron Fox- instead of the 3rd pick-which was Tatum?
Harry Giles-didn't play last year despite management saying he would be playing in Jan, hasn't played meaningful minutes in 2 1/2 years, injury prone?
Marvin Bagley-how many 19 year old have made a difference in their first season in the last 20 years with the exception of Lebron, plus, foul line, 3 point shooting, defense, in a league that is becoming more and more 3 crazy?
Bench guys Mason, Justin Jackson, Skal-like you said bench guys.

Bogdan Bogdanovich- bogy is what 25, and Chris is 20 years old
Sure, incomplete here, pending Chris's improvement as a basketball player as he ages.

Buddy Hield- for Damarcus?
It is Hield, Giles, Mason, Jackson for Demarcus. Demarcus is what 27? Giles is 20.

D’Aaron Fox- instead of the 3rd pick-which was Tatum?
You cannot blame the Philly trade for having to do the #3 for #5 swap, but then assume that if there was no Philly trade and a series of different moves was executed we would still have #3 pick. Not only that, but you assume that Tatum would still be available at #3 if Philly did not get our pick to trade up with Boston even though Boston who had #1 said Tatum was their guy? I think that is a lot of what ifs.

Harry Giles-didn't play last year despite management saying he would be playing in Jan, hasn't played meaningful minutes in 2 1/2 years, injury prone?
Embiid was injury prone as well. We will see whether Giles holds up and is anywhere near as talented.

Marvin Bagley-how many 19 year old have made a difference in their first season in the last 20 years with the exception of Lebron, plus, foul line, 3 point shooting, defense, in a league that is becoming more and more 3 crazy?

So you are saying there is a chance! . Not expecting Bagley to be Lebron but I do expect production out of him in his rookie year. The question with him is how much can he improve his weaknesses. Kings are betting he has much more to go...

 

[Telemachus]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1010933314532749312

I was listening to the Ringers' post draft podcast (all of them had Doncic #1 on their boards) and they said that a lot of teams had Doncic around 6 or 7 on their boards. This leads me to believe that the Kings weren't the only team to think Doncic wasn't as good as a lot of the draft sites.

 

[24 rick barry]

Bogdan Bogdanovich- bogy is what 25, and Chris is 20 years old
Sure, incomplete here, pending Chris's improvement as a basketball player as he ages.

Buddy Hield- for Damarcus?
It is Hield, Giles, Mason, Jackson for Demarcus. Demarcus is what 27? Giles is 20. Mason Jackson are bench guys, Giles is well unknown but hasn't played in 2 years. Hield an allstar? Damarcus a starter in the all-star game. Do you think Vlade put the screws to New Orleans on this trade?

D’Aaron Fox- instead of the 3rd pick-which was Tatum?
You cannot blame the Philly trade for having to do the #3 for #5 swap, but then assume that if there was no Philly trade and a series of different moves was executed we would still have #3 pick. Not only that, but you assume that Tatum would still be available at #3 if Philly did not get our pick to trade up with Boston even though Boston who had #1 said Tatum was their guy? I think that is a lot of what ifs.
Kidding me, this trade swap from 3 to 5 had everything to do with the Philly fleeced Vlade in that trade. If you didn't make the trade you would have had the 3rd pick and not the 5th pick. Did you think the trade was the other way around-that Vlade fleeced Philly on this particular trade too?

Harry Giles-didn't play last year despite management saying he would be playing in Jan, hasn't played meaningful minutes in 2 1/2 years, injury prone?
Embiid was injury prone as well. We will see whether Giles holds up and is anywhere near as talented. Yes, we will see. 18 other GM selected someone in front of Giles.

Marvin Bagley-how many 19 year old have made a difference in their first season in the last 20 years with the exception of Lebron, plus, foul line, 3 point shooting, defense, in a league that is becoming more and more 3 crazy?

So you are saying there is a chance! . Not expecting Bagley to be Lebron but I do expect production out of him in his rookie year. The question with him is how much can he improve his weaknesses. Kings are betting he has much more to go...

16 of 30 teams make the playoffs. Instead of going with an experienced GM, we went with a rookie. We had 27 wins last year. We had virtually no injuries. The number 2 in the draft might very well become a good player/an all-star or not. However, history has shown us that he will not be much help next year.

And when we have 35 or so of quasi wins (playing against team that have an inducement to tank), we will be able to watch Boston operate with our only first round pick next year that went along with the aforementioned pick swap when Vlade fleeced Philly.

 

[dude12]

dude12 said:

With any franchise there are moves and transactions and things said that you can go back and ridicule.....it’s just with some of the current successful ones, some of the moves that may not have worked out so well don’t become magnified because the core parts are already in place and they win.

For some of the franchises trying to get out of the lower tier of things, every move gets overanalyzed. Here’s a different way at looking things instead of the negative perceptions some just want to wallow in.
Last 2 years
Bogdan Bogdanovich- bogy is what 25, and Chris is 20 years old
Buddy Hield- for Damarcus?
D’Aaron Fox- instead of the 3rd pick-which was Tatum?
Harry Giles-didn't play last year despite management saying he would be playing in Jan, hasn't played meaningful minutes in 2 1/2 years, injury prone?
Marvin Bagley-how many 19 year old have made a difference in their first season in the last 20 years with the exception of Lebron, plus, foul line, 3 point shooting, defense, in a league that is becoming more and more 3 crazy?
Bench guys Mason, Justin Jackson, Skal-like you said bench guys.

If players start delivering on potential, pretty damn impressive in 2 years. SUPER TEAM? The wait is the toughest part but there are some hard working kids in that group to go with a good coaching staff and a stabilized front office. It’s exciting or you can go the national media route or be like Zach Lowe and Jay Bills and talk out of your a##


With regard to Bagley, yes, we will see. He is 19 and deserves the benefit of the doubt. I do not know him as a player and therefore can only look at his stats.

Seems to me that you now have Koufos, Willie, ZBO, Skal, Giles, Bagley to share time at 4 and 5. ZBO- a true 4, is the only one who we know at this point is a 3 point shooter. Seeing as though the league is more and more 3 point centric, these bigs seem to limit your offensive choices, don't you think?

Go ahead and be miserable. Your breakdowns of the guys listed is comical.

 

[ppine]

When you have talent you can ignore the naysayers.

 

[burekijogurt]

16 of 30 teams make the playoffs. Instead of going with an experienced GM, we went with a rookie. We had 27 wins last year. We had virtually no injuries. The number 2 in the draft might very well become a good player/an all-star or not. However, history has shown us that he will not be much help next year.

And when we have 35 or so of quasi wins (playing against team that have an inducement to tank), we will be able to watch Boston operate with our only first round pick next year that went along with the aforementioned pick swap when Vlade fleeced Philly.

Our win totals since the last playoffs appearance are 33, 38, 17, 25, 24, 22, 28, 28, 29, 33, 32, 27. GM experience in and of itself did not help us during those years. Our wins will be just as real/quasi as any other team's since we are all playing the same (tanking / playoff bound) opponents. It will definitely be interesting to see what type of magic Boston performs with our pick.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Buddy Hield- for Damarcus?
It is Hield, Giles, Mason, Jackson for Demarcus. Demarcus is what 27? Giles is 20.

If you're being honest, you also have to add Fox to this. No way do we finish in the same position if we kept Cousins. In fact we likely convey the first rounder to Chicago instead of a 2nd if Cousins completed the season. However either way, if our win total changes, and it would have, we don't hit the lotto and we pick below 5.

In either event (and this is for rick barry not you), we can't properly evaluate Fox for another 2-3 seasons. We had a rookie of the year once. It didn't end well.

 

[burekijogurt]

If you're being honest, you also have to add Fox to this. No way do we finish in the same position if we kept Cousins. In fact we likely convey the first rounder to Chicago instead of a 2nd if Cousins completed the season. However either way, if our win total changes, and it would have, we don't hit the lotto and we pick below 5.

In either event (and this is for rick barry not you), we can't properly evaluate Fox for another 2-3 seasons. We had a rookie of the year once. It didn't end well.

yes, i only included the players that resulted directly from the trade and acquired picks, which I think its sufficient to show decent return. and its even a better return if you extrapolate from the events that were set in motion with that trade and include Fox.

 

[hrdboild]

I think you should wait and see how Giles and Bagley pan out before making your decision. You could well be right and 1-2 years from now would be the time to say it. Now might possibly be a tad premature.

"Wait and see" still worked for me after the preposterously lopsided Stauskas deal. It worked for me after the bizarre way the George Karl ordeal played out. It barely worked for me after Matt Barnes was signed to a multi-year deal as a veteran presence. I thought I was done for sure after Vlade tried to tell me that DeMarcus was the problem and then openly admitted that he panicked and took a bad deal because he felt he had no other choice. Lucking into De'Aaron Fox bought them some time. Then we got months of George Hill being bad-mouthed in the press (and among the fans) for not living up to his $20 million a year contract and a salary dump trade which brought back nothing of substance for the prize free agency signing of last summer. I'm not capable of following this train-wreck any longer. Some of my all-time favorite players were treated like garbage by this organization under Vlade's watch and yes I hold him responsible for that. Comes with the territory. The exasperation has nearly murdered my love of basketball.

Do I know that Bagley is not a franchise player? No. Nobody has a crystal ball. But I'm pretty close to sure. If comparing notes with other teams makes you feel better I suppose that's relatively harmless. But then Ben McLemore was seen by a lot of people as the most talented player in his draft. Thomas Robinson was widely viewed as a sure-thing top 3 pick before his draft as was Jahlil Okafor. Consensus about most draft prospects is group-think. It's why things like Hasheem Thabeet second overall happen and why guys nobody has heard of (with names no one can pronounce) like Antetekuonmpo go much later than they should. I watched more tape this year than any other I can remember because we've never had a pick as high as #2 in the time I've been a Kings fan. I refused to accept that our current GM spends less time evaluating prospects than I do but the evidence seems clear on that now. At the start of the year before I'd seen him play a game in college I had Bagley #2 on my big board right after Ayton and the more I watched him the more he slipped to the point where I had him at #10 on draft day which is, coincidentally, also where I had Cauley-Stein in 2015. I knew Cauley-Stein was a mistake -- yet people here tried to tell me he was some kind of defensive savant. Whether Doncic is as good as I believe he will be doesn't really matter. There were several directions we could have gone with that pick and taking Bagley is one of the picks that convinces me once and for all that Vlade is terrible at judging talent. Nobody knew what he was thinking with Papagiannis and Richardson and both of them have been cut already so it's not like he has a stellar track record of going against the grain either. Bagley is a trap pick -- he's got flashy numbers and he can jump but can he actually play basketball? At an NBA level, sure. Because I expect him to get better. But at a superstar level? The eye test says no. He's got too far to go to get there.

Vlade Divac isn't a mediocre GM or even a poor one, he's bottom of the barrel history-making bad. He's in a class now with David Kahn, Isiah Thomas, and Billy King. And look, this does nothing to tarnish his legacy as a player. Michael Jordan has a terrible resume as a lead executive too. It happens. You just grit your teeth and move on. The only reason I felt a need to respond to this topic is that I feel bad so many good fans haven't recognized yet that this ship is sinking. The sooner Vlade is shown the door the better. I can tell you how this is going to play out over the summer. Our first round pick is gone next year which means every scrap of available cap space is going to be burned in pursuit of "win-now" veterans. Vlade has done this every summer since he got the job so that part isn't new. But we're facing a roster crunch already with 8 rookie contracts still on the books plus Bogdanovic. At the end of next season a decision has to be made on Cauley-Stein's future. Then the year after that it will be Buddy, Frank, and Skal. These players are going to start getting expensive fast and that's when those win-now veteran contracts really hurt. Just ask any Washington Wizards fan.

Hope is fine so long as it's tied to something genuine. False hope isn't helping anyone, just prolonging the misery. I don't want you to think that just because everyone who has problems with this front office has been driven away that there are no contrary opinions. I used to think guys like Zach Lowe and Adrian Wojnarowski were just misinformed about the details of what's happening in some tiny small-market franchise the rest of the nation generally ignores except when it makes for a good headline. The cloud has lifted though and it's become crystal clear that they were right all along. Our team has been hijacked. This is exactly what I told myself I wouldn't do -- monologue-ing a long list of grievances. This has already gone far too long. Both my post and the kicking down the road of the future of the Kings... just wait until next year. One more draft pick, one more free agent signing. It's coming just around the corner, have faith! I'm sorry to say this because I love this team but it's not. We have a mediocre coach, a mediocre roster, few assets with which to build, and a horrendously bad GM who has done nothing but squander opportunities since he was promoted. I feel bad for the kids on the team who, through no fault of their own, are going to become targets for the fans (just like George Hill was) once people start to do the mental calculus of squaring their unrealistic expectations with reality. I am but one voice of many so don't take my word for it. Just look around and see if anything I'm saying makes sense. I'm sticking around here only because I consider the good folks on this forum to be my friends. I'm not going to hammer you over the head with negativity. This is it, I got it all out in one fell swoop. I'm merely trying to stage some kind of intervention here in this one topic because the way this team has treated its fans is not acceptable and all the apologizing for blatant mis-management is preventing you from seeing what has become obvious to 99.9% of the world.

So that's it. I'm done talking Kings basketball. I'll try to find other things to talk about every now and then. I wish you good luck. I'll probably be back but only after Vlade is gone. Fortunately I don't think it will take that long. This is a notoriously fickle business that demands results after all.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

yes, i only included the players that resulted directly from the trade and acquired picks, which I think its sufficient to show decent return. and its even a better return if you extrapolate from the events that were set in motion with that trade and include Fox.

I know you know but I think that point needs to be hammered into the heads of some folk. That trade was the beginning of the rebuild, and it was about securing two first rounders in a deep 2017 draft as much as Buddy. Apparently Buddy was one of two players that Vivek would have allowed, and so it may have cost us this "better deal on the table" - but if that deal was withdrawn by the time that Vivek signed off on it, so be it. That's NOT on Vlade.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Vlade Divac isn't a mediocre GM or even a poor one, he's bottom of the barrel history-making bad. He's in a class now with David Kahn, Isiah Thomas, and Billy King.

If 3/5 Fox/Buddy/Bogs/Bags/Giles pan out there is no way you can say that. So it's far too premature to say this.

I'll admit it's hard to be optimistic, but its 2-3 seasons too early as well.

 

[burekijogurt]

"

..I can tell you how this is going to play out over the summer. Our first round pick is gone next year which means every scrap of available cap space is going to be burned in pursuit of "win-now" veterans. Vlade has done this every summer since he got the job so that part isn't new. But we're facing a roster crunch already with 8 rookie contracts still on the books plus Bogdanovic. At the end of next season a decision has to be made on Cauley-Stein's future. Then the year after that it will be Buddy, Frank, and Skal. These players are going to start getting expensive fast and that's when those win-now veteran contracts really hurt. Just ask any Washington Wizards fan.

...

All of the "win-now" veterans will be gone in one season. All of those contracts expire in 2019 for a reason. If there are any free agency signings this season, which I doubt, they will not be of the "win-now" veterans variety. I even doubt we take a chance on a younger player such as Hezonja, although I would not rule that out. I think we see what we have this season and then look for free agents in 2019 when we will have extreme amounts of cap space.

 

[Pizzaguy93]

I’ll say it now and believed it after the move. We did not lose the Cousins trade. Imagine if he tore his Achilles this season as we miss the playoffs and pick after #10. In this world, we most likely lost our pick to Chicago or picked Nitikilina at best. Our core would be
WCS
An unhealthy cousins getting paid over 200 million
Temple
Bogdan
Nitikilina
Miles bridges with our 10th pick this year let’s say

The moves leading up to that Vlade made were in attempt to find pieces that could help cousins get it done. He realized that was not the route for the franchise and did everything possible to switch it around in a new direction. I posted this elsewhere on draft night but here is the roster the Kings had when Mike Malone was fired, when I last thought this team was close to being a playoff team.

Believe what you will, or call it the blind optimism of being a Sacramento kings fan, but I’m pretty set in my feeling that we’re in a much better position now than we would’ve been with Cousins

 

[allrightythen]

I’ll say it now and believed it after the move. We did not lose the Cousins trade. Imagine if he tore his Achilles this season as we miss the playoffs and pick after #10. In this world, we most likely lost our pick to Chicago or picked Nitikilina at best. Our core would be
WCS
An unhealthy cousins getting paid over 200 million
Temple
Bogdan
Nitikilina
Miles bridges with our 10th pick this year let’s say

The moves leading up to that Vlade made were in attempt to find pieces that could help cousins get it done. He realized that was not the route for the franchise and did everything possible to switch it around in a new direction. I posted this elsewhere on draft night but here is the roster the Kings had when Mike Malone was fired, when I last thought this team was close to being a playoff team.

Believe what you will, or call it the blind optimism of being a Sacramento kings fan, but I’m pretty set in my feeling that we’re in a much better position now than we would’ve been with Cousins

That's an interesting point, but it depends on the return. The core we have is exciting and young but they need to prove that they are good before I'd call that a good trade. I'm excited to watch it all happen.

 

[sactowndog]

"Wait and see" still worked for me after the preposterously lopsided Stauskas deal. It worked for me after the bizarre way the George Karl ordeal played out. It barely worked for me after Matt Barnes was signed to a multi-year deal as a veteran presence. I thought I was done for sure after Vlade tried to tell me that DeMarcus was the problem and then openly admitted that he panicked and took a bad deal because he felt he had no other choice. Lucking into De'Aaron Fox bought them some time. Then we got months of George Hill being bad-mouthed in the press (and among the fans) for not living up to his $20 million a year contract and a salary dump trade which brought back nothing of substance for the prize free agency signing of last summer. I'm not capable of following this train-wreck any longer. Some of my all-time favorite players were treated like garbage by this organization under Vlade's watch and yes I hold him responsible for that. Comes with the territory. The exasperation has nearly murdered my love of basketball.

Do I know that Bagley is not a franchise player? No. Nobody has a crystal ball. But I'm pretty close to sure. If comparing notes with other teams makes you feel better I suppose that's relatively harmless. But then Ben McLemore was seen by a lot of people as the most talented player in his draft. Thomas Robinson was widely viewed as a sure-thing top 3 pick before his draft as was Jahlil Okafor. Consensus about most draft prospects is group-think. It's why things like Hasheem Thabeet second overall happen and why guys nobody has heard of (with names no one can pronounce) like Antetekuonmpo go much later than they should. I watched more tape this year than any other I can remember because we've never had a pick as high as #2 in the time I've been a Kings fan. I refused to accept that our current GM spends less time evaluating prospects than I do but the evidence seems clear on that now. At the start of the year before I'd seen him play a game in college I had Bagley #2 on my big board right after Ayton and the more I watched him the more he slipped to the point where I had him at #10 on draft day which is, coincidentally, also where I had Cauley-Stein in 2015. I knew Cauley-Stein was a mistake -- yet people here tried to tell me he was some kind of defensive savant. Whether Doncic is as good as I believe he will be doesn't really matter. There were several directions we could have gone with that pick and taking Bagley is one of the picks that convinces me once and for all that Vlade is terrible at judging talent. Nobody knew what he was thinking with Papagiannis and Richardson and both of them have been cut already so it's not like he has a stellar track record of going against the grain either. Bagley is a trap pick -- he's got flashy numbers and he can jump but can he actually play basketball? At an NBA level, sure. Because I expect him to get better. But at a superstar level? The eye test says no. He's got too far to go to get there.

Vlade Divac isn't a mediocre GM or even a poor one, he's bottom of the barrel history-making bad. He's in a class now with David Kahn, Isiah Thomas, and Billy King. And look, this does nothing to tarnish his legacy as a player. Michael Jordan has a terrible resume as a lead executive too. It happens. You just grit your teeth and move on. The only reason I felt a need to respond to this topic is that I feel bad so many good fans haven't recognized yet that this ship is sinking. The sooner Vlade is shown the door the better. I can tell you how this is going to play out over the summer. Our first round pick is gone next year which means every scrap of available cap space is going to be burned in pursuit of "win-now" veterans. Vlade has done this every summer since he got the job so that part isn't new. But we're facing a roster crunch already with 8 rookie contracts still on the books plus Bogdanovic. At the end of next season a decision has to be made on Cauley-Stein's future. Then the year after that it will be Buddy, Frank, and Skal. These players are going to start getting expensive fast and that's when those win-now veteran contracts really hurt. Just ask any Washington Wizards fan.

Hope is fine so long as it's tied to something genuine. False hope isn't helping anyone, just prolonging the misery. I don't want you to think that just because everyone who has problems with this front office has been driven away that there are no contrary opinions. I used to think guys like Zach Lowe and Adrian Wojnarowski were just misinformed about the details of what's happening in some tiny small-market franchise the rest of the nation generally ignores except when it makes for a good headline. The cloud has lifted though and it's become crystal clear that they were right all along. Our team has been hijacked. This is exactly what I told myself I wouldn't do -- monologue-ing a long list of grievances. This has already gone far too long. Both my post and the kicking down the road of the future of the Kings... just wait until next year. One more draft pick, one more free agent signing. It's coming just around the corner, have faith! I'm sorry to say this because I love this team but it's not. We have a mediocre coach, a mediocre roster, few assets with which to build, and a horrendously bad GM who has done nothing but squander opportunities since he was promoted. I feel bad for the kids on the team who, through no fault of their own, are going to become targets for the fans (just like George Hill was) once people start to do the mental calculus of squaring their unrealistic expectations with reality. I am but one voice of many so don't take my word for it. Just look around and see if anything I'm saying makes sense. I'm sticking around here only because I consider the good folks on this forum to be my friends. I'm not going to hammer you over the head with negativity. This is it, I got it all out in one fell swoop. I'm merely trying to stage some kind of intervention here in this one topic because the way this team has treated its fans is not acceptable and all the apologizing for blatant mis-management is preventing you from seeing what has become obvious to 99.9% of the world.

So that's it. I'm done talking Kings basketball. I'll try to find other things to talk about every now and then. I wish you good luck. I'll probably be back but only after Vlade is gone. Fortunately I don't think it will take that long. This is a notoriously fickle business that demands results after all.

Wow lots to parse but glad you vented. I want to respond to the bolded parts....

Drafting Bagley was not group think as evidenced by the number of people roasting Vlade for not taking Doncic. I happen to think Doncic was this years group think pick. We shall see over the next couple years but the one thing you can’t accuse Vlade of doing is following group think.

I think Vlade will pursue Hezonja which is absolutely not a win now veteran. The kid is only 22-23 and fits in with our young core. I do think kids that don’t perform won’t be given time but the Skal’s of the world need to step up.

Anyway. I think we all want them to do well and hopefully in Feb you will be back saying I was wrong.