Zach Lowe dumps on Kings - in other news, water is wet
- Thread starter Gguod
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Well he can play SOME SF if Derrick Williams and Jerami Grant (in Philly) could play SF why can't Marvin play a limited amount at SF, not saying he's a permanent SF I mean even JaKar Sampson played some SF for the Kings. In some situation due to his mobility and athletic ability he could slide down and be a post up SF on offense.
I think that last thing this fanbase wants is Bagley playing sf with two other bigs. In general Nba fan knows how the game is played today, knows the importance of spacing, knows what you would ideally want from your small forward. Bagley isnt a 3point shooter, he isnt a skilled perimeter player and he isnt a defender. And Im not trying to trash Bagley, he just isnt Sf and shouldnt play sf at all. He is a big man and thats where his strengths are. I think that statement was just him overselling the guy and trying to convince others he made the right choice but the fans werent dumb and it backfired on him. Could be just simple misstatement but I dont think thats it
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I don't think he would be any worse as a SF (not advocating for a second he should be) than what we had last season there but I agree with you they are trying to oversell him but that's what every team does with every pick e.g player X can defend positions 1-5 and these types of statements.
Imo literally anyone who can shoot and slide Bagley to 4/5 will make the offense better than Bagley being 3 with two other bigs.
And yeah Gms allways exaggerate a little but that was just too much and fans noticed it
Bagley at SF was one thing.. but saying the same for Skal and WCS was what irked me. Glad he cleared it up.
Vlade saying that Bagley was a "better fit, better player" than Doncic and that it was an easy choice for them strikes me as a bit odd.
I think it's something about the way he says it, which is almost dismissively.
We'll never know for sure but I'm still left wondering if there was truth to the rumors that Doncic refused to play in Sacramento.
I think it's something about the way he says it, which is almost dismissively.
We'll never know for sure but I'm still left wondering if there was truth to the rumors that Doncic refused to play in Sacramento.
ockingsfan
Starter
I don't think Doncic ever said he would not play for Sacramento. He was interviewed right before the draft and said he would play for any team that drafted him. Furthermore, there was a video he made (someone posted in Doncic thread) where he said his goals was to be drafted 2nd to Sacramento.
I think Vlade lacks the tact and just calls it as he sees it. I think it can rub people the wrong way sometimes because he doesn't throw out the politically correct answer all of time.
jcwkings
All-Star
Cmon guys what have the Kings done over the last 12+ years to give a guy who is supposed to cover every team in the league something positive to say? Lowe is a good writer and has way more knowledge than 99% of his similar. The Kings suck, have sucked for over a decade, meddling owners, incompetent front office, revolving door of coaches. We can say it's getting better, and it looks like it is, but until they put a team out there that is respectable and getting wins, trying to defend the Kings against these national types makes the fanbase come off as naive and minor league. This is as NBA franchise, not your grandsons Little league team. Fans should demand more than what they are getting. One issue I have always seen with this franchise is the media/fans are very soft on the franchise. No hard ball questions, why didn't anyone ask a follow up when Vlade said Bagley could play SF? I sometimes feel like I'm supporting a small town minor league team and not an NBA franchise.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
In retrospect so am I (a little). I still think Luka would’ve been fine or at the least not pulled a Steve Francis
But also fit can’t be understated. Vlade/Joerger are trying to win in the short term, and if that’s easier to do because of position/player personnel it would help
burekijogurt
Starter
The mannerism was sort of incredulous, as in "what do you mean, of course we picked Bagley". I still doubt Luka straight out refused to play for Sacramento, but I'm starting to think that he might not have given them the warm and fuzzy feeling Bagley did. He probably did not seem "all in" for them to commit to him and take the ball out of Fox's hands. Its possible.
I think they liked Doncic but they really believe that Bagley is the best player in the draft. Also keeps ball in Fox’ hands more.
burekijogurt
Starter
Everything they have said publicly since the end of the season implies that they view 2019 as another development season with the goal of winning in the future. Now, one can argue that while this might have been their plan if they did not have to worry about their jobs, they will focus more on winning now in order to keep the ownership satisfied with the results of their work. I personally feel they have more leeway with ownership than people seem to think..
burekijogurt
Starter
yes, it seems obvious from that press conference that whatever the dynamic with Luka might have been, they do genuinely really like Bagley
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Yeah, I think their on their last legs. I guess a difference of opinion. Vlade himself last summer said he’d step down after this year if things weren’t looking good. That could be interpreted differently, but bringing in a young player like Luka, who may not fit with their current squad, and thus may lose to more losing, IMO could have been a factor
burekijogurt
Starter
yeah saw this, Rose thinks this was the right decision (before the decision was made). in fact he said something like "even the Kings cannot mess this up" and then proceeds to list his reasons to draft Bagley...
TaxMan
Starter
I don’t think it was a short term decision at all. I think the team still thinks they have an all star in fox and so adding Luka means one of their top two assets would eventually need to go (or by not being as effective). It was clearly a ‘sum of the parts’ decision with the next 5 to 10 years in mind — although quite possible they also thought Bagley was the better player regardless.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Isn't Otto Porter considered a small forward? I think Bagley could guard him, as Otto is more of an outside shooting/rebounder/defense kind of three, not a slasher. If Vlade said that Bagley can guard some small forwards, I see no problem with that whatsoever. It's the slashing type of 3s that I can see him have difficulty with, not the 3 and D guys that aren't as adept at handling the ball.
Similarly, I can see Bagley defending against some centers and not others. Certainly, if he were playing against the Kings I could see him playing against WCS. I could see him against Capela and guys of his ilk; the guys like Steven Adams, not so much. It really depends on the player he goes up against, not the position, imo.
Similarly, I can see Bagley defending against some centers and not others. Certainly, if he were playing against the Kings I could see him playing against WCS. I could see him against Capela and guys of his ilk; the guys like Steven Adams, not so much. It really depends on the player he goes up against, not the position, imo.
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Sac.1989
Starter
Agree. Defense is all effort anyway, kid has a huge motor, it's how you apply it
ockingsfan
Starter
Good to see some guys call it straight.
Funny how some of these other national writers loved Bagley as the best talent before the Kings drafted him. Now they are saying Kings made a mistake passing on Doncic.
I'm sure if the Kings would had drafted Doncic, these same writers would had said the Kings were dumb to pass on Bagley.
The Kings can't win with these writers until they start winning and prove these guys wrong!
Kingster
Hall of Famer
This is what I learned from this press conference:
1) Vlade wants this team to play fast - RUN!
2) They considered both ability and fit in this draft
3) One of his considerations in making up this team is having enough minutes to develop the young guys.
4) He thinks in terms of a two or three year time frame to evaluate their young guys [and know if they are going to make the cut.]
5) He likes the competition within the team.
5) This is my interpretation of Divac's comments on players like Bagley and WCS being able to play the 3, 4 and 5:
He's putting forth the message to the NBA that the Kings aren't desperate to trade any of their bigs because of the perceived glut of bigs on this team. He doesn't want to negotiate a trade of any big from a position of weakness. He realizes that there may be the perception around the league that he is in a position of weakness because of the perceived glut. He's downplaying the glut by saying that some of these bigs can play the 3 and 4 at times He's talking up WCS and his ability to play the 3, 4 and 5. Whether he is talking him up because he really does want to keep him, or because he really wants to trade him, is the question. There is nothing in the news conference to tell you one way or the other.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Bagley got two workouts in between arriving in Sacramento and his press conference. Meanwhile Luka is too tired to play in Summer League. Vlade wins
Vlade does win
but that sucks. I wanted to see Doncic play in the summer league.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
That’s true. But if it was a new regime, who had a ton of leeway, and they thought Luka was slightly BPA, they may have taken Luka regardless of fit and made it work or dealt one of them from a position of strength. Hopefully they feel Marvin is BPA.
whozit
Starter
Good analysis of the press conference. But then again, I want to give the benefit of doubt.
The Kings under Vlade have only drafted players who come work out for them..except in 2016 when nobody came to work out for us. I'm not saying he doesn't think Bagley is the #1 player, but having him come out for a visit and workout probably made him like Bagley a lot more hence the "better player". "better fit"... I still think this 10000% pertains to Fox. Doncic will take the ball out of Fox's hands. Vlade and the FO see Fox as our franchise face. Fox is at his best with the ball in his hands. I'm also not sure how Fox would react being the secondary playmaker, because Doncic would've been our half-court facilitator. I'm guessing Vlade also thinks we already have other somewhat ball-dom players in Buddy, Bogdan, WCS, and Giles?
or you're right... Doncic probably just doesn't want to play here. That's what Givony reported, and he's been 100% right throughout the draft process whether or not fans like it. I could see this as being a possibility.
It was certainly rock bottom for me. I want nothing to do with this team now until Vlade is gone. Not because he passed on Luka Doncic, that was just the last straw for me. Things were already heading in that direction all season long. What hit me hardest is the realization that this is maybe the best chance this franchise is ever going to have to land a franchise player and they blew it (in my opinion). Totally stared down the barrel and choked. He could have picked 6 other guys at that spot that aren't Luka Doncic and I would have stuck around. Bagley is not the answer.
It'll take years for the gravity of this decision to become clear but that's where this is headed. I'm not interested in ruining anyone else's day or harping on and on about my reasons why. I'm just done. I can't stomach anymore. I'm sure Blob or whoever will prance around in my absence claiming victory, I don't care. You can continue to believe that the rest of the world has got it out for Kings fans if you like. I'll just let Occam's razor sort that one out.
It'll take years for the gravity of this decision to become clear but that's where this is headed. I'm not interested in ruining anyone else's day or harping on and on about my reasons why. I'm just done. I can't stomach anymore. I'm sure Blob or whoever will prance around in my absence claiming victory, I don't care. You can continue to believe that the rest of the world has got it out for Kings fans if you like. I'll just let Occam's razor sort that one out.
upinsmoke
All-Star
If you draft a PG high your committed to him. At some point you need to pick a direction and RUN with it. Fox is our guy he's the one at the center of our roster makeup and players that are going to be around awhile should fit with him. Bagley not only fits with Fox he also fits with Joerger's style of play.
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