Worst Record = 1st pick?

IMO He may end up being a player like Mutumbo, but is that what we really need right now?

Um...yes, yes it is.

There are basically two camps of Thabeet detractors.

Camp 1 just doesn't think he's going to be any good at even the things he is supposed to be good at. Not much to say there, except to correct obvious misimpressions. There are no sure things in this draft, Thabeet included. But he is 7'3", moves like no 7'3" player I can remember saving perhaps Ralph Sampson in his youth, and is a really really sophisticated shotblocker. I think people miss just how remarkable he is at that aspect. Its not just because he's 7'3". He has a gift, and insight into how its done. When I say he is a "sophisticated" shotblocker what I mean is that he shows great understanding of how to maximize his gift. Many/most guys who block shots are two parts ferocious to no parts brain, and they go flying around leaving their feet, leaving their man chasing the ball and swatting at anything and everything. And that is still useful -- there is intimidation there. But it has drawbacks. You leave your man open, you lose rebounding position, if you are not getting those blocks you can actually hurt the team. The Kings used to have a player like that called Duane Casewell in the early 90s. One year I think he blocked something like 2.4 or 2.5blks a game, but he was just incredibly dumb and undisciplined about it. But Thabeet...Thabeet is really remarkable, especially for a player who has not played the game that long. He is a huge shotblocker, but he rarely ever fouls anybody. He has great mobility for that size, and he knows how to show and hedge screens and recover back just riding the guy and looming over him. He doesn't waste effort swiping and picking up cheapies, he just understands that the intimidation is the thing. Watch him pick his spots inside -- if you throw up something weak, its out of there. But if you get sneaky, use the rim or whatever, he backs off. And hey, maybe if he is ferocious he goes after all of them and risks those fouls, but he just has a great feel for the percentages. He has to leave his man occasionally -- that is after all the job of the interior intimidator -- but watch how often he mainitains contact, lurks back and does not move until the last second. That is really rare stuff for a young player, or even an old one.

The second groud of detractors typically do not see the value in what Thabeet could potentially bring even if he does work out, usually because of an overconcern about offense. To that group, I do not know what to say. It is an understanding gap. When you pick this high in the draft, ideally you want to nab a superstar. Thabeet will not be one. But when you are in a draft that may not have one at all, the next thing you want to aim for is an impact player. If you can't get a superstar, then get a guy who is unique and will make an impact. A 17ppg shooting guard might be "good", but oyu know how many wins he typically contributes to your total? Roughly zero. You how much tone he sets? None. The same thing can be said of a 13 and 8 big man or whatever. Just there. Solid. "Good". But irrelevant. We have been terrible this year, merely adding a "good" player, an irrelevant player, isn't going to change that in the least. We need a game changer and a tonesetter. Would be great if that were a superstar, but if its not, then we need somebody who is a superstar at something at least. One side of the ball or the other. One aspect fo the game or the other. Somebody who changes the tone for the worst defensive team in basketball.
 
I was going to post this in another thread but this is probably the more appropriate one so I'll place this thought here instead:
Maybe the NBA should snapshot the standings on the date that the first playoff spot is clinched or the date that the first team is eliminated from the playoffs to determine lottery order. On either of these dates the team with the worst record is most likely the worst team in the league and the middle of the road lottery teams have yet to begin tanking. Since teams would all still be eligible for the playoffs there'd be less incentive for teams to tank at this point and there would be more incentive for teams to continue playing well after this date. You'd wind up with a pretty accurate picture of who is where, except for the teams on the playoff/lottery border.
 
Entity said:
manute bol stayed in the league for 10 years and had nothing absolutley nothing outside of his height. wasn't quick wasn't athletic and was thinner than kevin martin.

Is this the same, great, three point shooting, Manute Bol were talking about? He did bring humor to the team.
 
Um...yes, yes it is.

There are basically two camps of Thabeet detractors.

Camp 1 just doesn't think he's going to be any good at even the things he is supposed to be good at. Not much to say there, except to correct obvious misimpressions. There are no sure things in this draft, Thabeet included. But he is 7'3", moves like no 7'3" player I can remember saving perhaps Ralph Sampson in his youth, and is a really really sophisticated shotblocker. I think people miss just how remarkable he is at that aspect. Its not just because he's 7'3". He has a gift, and insight into how its done. When I say he is a "sophisticated" shotblocker what I mean is that he shows great understanding of how to maximize his gift. Many/most guys who block shots are two parts ferocious to no parts brain, and they go flying around leaving their feet, leaving their man chasing the ball and swatting at anything and everything. And that is still useful -- there is intimidation there. But it has drawbacks. You leave your man open, you lose rebounding position, if you are not getting those blocks you can actually hurt the team. The Kings used to have a player like that called Duane Casewell in the early 90s. One year I think he blocked something like 2.4 or 2.5blks a game, but he was just incredibly dumb and undisciplined about it. But Thabeet...Thabeet is really remarkable, especially for a player who has not played the game that long. He is a huge shotblocker, but he rarely ever fouls anybody. He has great mobility for that size, and he knows how to show and hedge screens and recover back just riding the guy and looming over him. He doesn't waste effort swiping and picking up cheapies, he just understands that the intimidation is the thing. Watch him pick his spots inside -- if you throw up something weak, its out of there. But if you get sneaky, use the rim or whatever, he backs off. And hey, maybe if he is ferocious he goes after all of them and risks those fouls, but he just has a great feel for the percentages. He has to leave his man occasionally -- that is after all the job of the interior intimidator -- but watch how often he mainitains contact, lurks back and does not move until the last second. That is really rare stuff for a young player, or even an old one.

The second groud of detractors typically do not see the value in what Thabeet could potentially bring even if he does work out, usually because of an overconcern about offense. To that group, I do not know what to say. It is an understanding gap. When you pick this high in the draft, ideally you want to nab a superstar. Thabeet will not be one. But when you are in a draft that may not have one at all, the next thing you want to aim for is an impact player. If you can't get a superstar, then get a guy who is unique and will make an impact. A 17ppg shooting guard might be "good", but oyu know how many wins he typically contributes to your total? Roughly zero. You how much tone he sets? None. The same thing can be said of a 13 and 8 big man or whatever. Just there. Solid. "Good". But irrelevant. We have been terrible this year, merely adding a "good" player, an irrelevant player, isn't going to change that in the least. We need a game changer and a tonesetter. Would be great if that were a superstar, but if its not, then we need somebody who is a superstar at something at least. One side of the ball or the other. One aspect fo the game or the other. Somebody who changes the tone for the worst defensive team in basketball.

There's a third camp that doesn't see a no-offense shot blocker having as much impact in today's NBA with a 3 point shot and an emphasis on quickness. If Tweet-Tweet was on the opposing team, the Kings would do fine. Spread the floor. Take him away from the basket, thereby minimizing his shot blocking and his rebounding (which turns him into a below average rebounder). Run him. Absolutely DARE (or HOPE) that they throw the ball to him in the post. You could start with your taller players (Hawes and Thompson) to defend him and work your way down to Beno to see at what point he would actually score consistently in the post. I'm thinking that Beno would be a little much, but probably Garcia could do the job.
 
No Thabeet has bust all over......Shawn Bradley 2.0.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdPstztPkLA

Bradley is an easy target, but did you know that at his peak, he was putting up 11-15 pts, 8 reb, and 3.5 blocks? Not stellar numbers, especially for one who is 7'6", but 3.5 blocks is very gamechanging. If you graft these numbers to the NBA today, you come up with a center who puts up numbers like Nene, or Okafor, with more blocks than Dwight Howard. Also remember that when Bradley played, the Centers were a lot bigger and stronger than today (Ewing, Dream, Shaq, Robinson, Mourning). Today, the only real power centers are Dwight, Bynum, and Jefferson. You put in healthy Shawn Bradley in today, and he would be putting up very respectable numbers.

As much fun as it to poke at the 7'6" stiff white guy, most of the highlights are of him trying to block on weakside help; that is, after the opponent already beat Bradley's man. Most everyone would look like a fool on help defense after the fact as well. It's easy to dump on Bradley, but how bout not looking ignorant while you do it?
 
There's a third camp that doesn't see a no-offense shot blocker having as much impact in today's NBA with a 3 point shot and an emphasis on quickness. If Tweet-Tweet was on the opposing team, the Kings would do fine. Spread the floor. Take him away from the basket, thereby minimizing his shot blocking and his rebounding (which turns him into a below average rebounder). Run him. Absolutely DARE (or HOPE) that they throw the ball to him in the post. You could start with your taller players (Hawes and Thompson) to defend him and work your way down to Beno to see at what point he would actually score consistently in the post. I'm thinking that Beno would be a little much, but probably Garcia could do the job.

I was attempting to leave Jerry Reynolds' 3rd camp out of it because they are just inherently confused.

There is no "new NBA". Its all a load of wishful thinking B.S. The Suns were supposed to be the "new NBA". The Suns won nothing and crashed and burned. The Warriors were supposed to be the new NBA. The Warriors won nothing and crashed and burned.

Meanwhile the great teams in the league start Kendrick Perkins, Ben Wallace (and Big Z), Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum, Yao Ming, Tyson Chandler, Erick Dampier, Tim Duncan, Joel Pryzbilla etc. etc. and somehow seem to be doing just fine with it. So yes, as I have challenged repeatedly in the past -- the "new NBA" sure doesn't need big shotblocker/rebounders. That's because the "new NBA" is nothing more than a term for the collective of the NBAs garbage teams. And in 25 years of watching the league, nothing has changed with the garbage teams -- they never control the middle, always try to junkball and "speed the game up", crow for a while about how they are changing the game, then either grow up, get serious, and get big, or crash, burn and are forgotten about. The "new NBA" is nothing more than an excuse for the have nots of the league...until they finally get a chance to grab a legit big of their own and become a "have".



P.S. As an aside, people always trot out that "we'll just spread the floor and shoot jumpers" taunt about how to deal with shotblockers. But you know what? If fear of the shotblocker turns you into a bunch of jumpshooters, he's already won without having to block a shot. He's made you passive, into a team of outside shooting weenies without even having to work for it. Every once in a while you will get hot from outside and win one of those. But if you are jumpshooting team you will lose more than oyu will win. You will certainly be terminated with prejudice in the playoffs. Sayinig you are going to run away isn't a taunt to a shotblocker, its a compliment.
 
Last edited:
I was attempting to leave Jerry Reynolds' 3rd camp out of it because they are just inherently confused.

There is no "new NBA". Its all a load of wishful thinking B.S. The Suns were supposed to be the "new NBA". The Suns won nothing and crashed and burned. The Warriors were supposed to be the new NBA. The Warriors won nothing and crashed and burned.

Meanwhile the great teams in the league start Kendrick Perkins, Ben Wallace (and Big Z), Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum, Yao Ming, Tyson Chandler, Erick Dampier, Tim Duncan, Joel Pryzbilla etc. etc. and somehow seem to be doing just fine with it. So yes, as I have challenged repeatedly in the past -- the "new NBA" sure doesn't need big shotblocker/rebounders. That's because the "new NBA" is nothing more than a term for the collective of the NBAs garbage teams. And in 25 years of watching the league, nothing has changed with the garbage teams -- they never control the middle, always try to junkball and "speed the game up", crow for a while about how they are changing the game, then either grow up, get serious, and get big, or crash, burn and are forgotten about. The "new NBA" is nothing more than an excuse for the have nots of the league...until they finally get a chance to grab a legit big of their own and become a "have".



P.S. As an aside, people always trot out that "we'll just spread the floor and shoot jumpers" taunt about how to deal with shotblockers. But you know what? If fear of the shotblocker turns you into a bunch of jumpshooters, he's already won without having to block a shot. He's made you passive, into a team of outside shooting weenies without even having to work for it. Every once in a while you will get hot from outside and win one of those. But if you are jumpshooting team you will lose more than oyu will win. You will certainly be terminated with prejudice in the playoffs. Sayinig you are going to run away isn't a taunt to a shotblocker, its a compliment.

Yes, I totally agree that there is no such thing as the new NBA center being quicker and more mobile. A large inside presence is needed.

The thing is all of those players mentioned have bulk and Hasheem Thabeet just doesn't have bulk and he won't turn into that type of guy. That is what I think is needed for us.

A player that is both tall and bulky is what is needed. He doesn't need to be a great offensive player or extremely mobile and quick, but he does need to be able to defend against players like Dwight Howard and others mentioned above while also able to help defend against driving players and rebound.
 
Back
Top