Worst case scenario is Drummond.... Right ?

My thing with Robinson is that if you draft him at #5 you are committing yourself to a Cousins-Robinson combo for the next 10 years .. and I just don't think that is a winning formula. Even if Robinson becomes a decent defender he will never make up for DeMarcus's shortcomings in that area. On a playoff/championship level your going to need to protect the paint with someone. Cousins isn't that guy. Robinson isn't that guy.

Drummond can be that guy. DeAndre freaking Jordan is making 10 million per. Javale McGee will sign for the same this offseason. I consider those two guys on the LOW end of what Drummond could be, and even that would solve a big issue for us.

I want Davis, then MKG, then Drummond. After that .. fairly large drop off in my opinion.

At that point, I'm trading down for Henson or Jones.
 
I will beat the Henson drum until draft day. Terrence Jones wouldn't disappoint me either, even if that may look like a reach at this point. And Beal is a stud, I would dump MT and Jimmer/IT for a lesser value if that meant grabbing Beal.
I could live with Barnes as a safe but not perfect fitting pick, and Drummond as the boom or bust. But Drummond just really scares me and I can see much worse case scenarios than DeAndre Jordan.
 
It would be interesting to see what Clifford Ray could do with Drummond. But you have to figure he isn't going to get a starting job or big minutes his first year. Getting a first year starter material guy went out the window when the Kings name came up at #5. So pick the guy you think has the biggest upside in a season or two. Trades and free agency are the last remaining hopes of not being right back here again one year from now talking lottery.
 
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
Drummond can be that guy. DeAndre freaking Jordan is making 10 million per. Javale McGee will sign for the same this offseason. I consider those two guys on the LOW end of what Drummond could be, and even that would solve a big issue for us.
.
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I think his peak is a DeAndre Jordan type player. Or maybe Serge Ibakakakaka. Javale McGee isn't anything like Drummond. McGee doesn't defend. He blocks shots now and then, but his defense is terrible. Drummond can at least defend pretty well. I still don't want him though. Drummond isn't the type of player that's going to help you win imo, but he's a guy that CAN do well on a winning team if he's used correctly and if he reached his peak. I put him as more of a roleplayer than anything though.
 
Gary said:
I think his peak is a DeAndre Jordan type player. Or maybe Serge Ibakakakaka. Javale McGee isn't anything like Drummond. McGee doesn't defend. He blocks shots now and then, but his defense is terrible. Drummond can at least defend pretty well. I still don't want him though. Drummond isn't the type of player that's going to help you win imo, but he's a guy that CAN do well on a winning team if he's used correctly and if he reached his peak. I put him as more of a roleplayer than anything though.
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I think roleplayers plus types are most of the guys between 5 and 10 in this draft, maybe with one or two surprises. If that's the case, i want to see us go after the type of role player we need.
 
Gary said:
I think his peak is a DeAndre Jordan type player. Or maybe Serge Ibakakakaka. Javale McGee isn't anything like Drummond. McGee doesn't defend. He blocks shots now and then, but his defense is terrible. Drummond can at least defend pretty well. I still don't want him though. Drummond isn't the type of player that's going to help you win imo, but he's a guy that CAN do well on a winning team if he's used correctly and if he reached his peak. I put him as more of a roleplayer than anything though.
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How is defense & rim protection not going to help them win? thats the ONE thing this team needs to start winning, a defensive anchor.. We've been getting abused in the paint for years.
 
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OptimusRhyme said:
How is defense & rim protection not going to help them win? thats the ONE thing this team needs to start winning, a defensive anchor.. We've been getting abused in the paint for years.
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Because I don't think he's a good enough all around player to stay on the floor more than 15-18 minutes a night at least for his first couple years. We didn't win with Dalembert so I doubt a guy that doesn't play that much will lead us to the promise land. I know the players we have do have more experience and stuff so a defensive presence might help us more than it would have a couple years ago, but I just don't think it will help enough to win anything anytime soon.
 
Gary said:
Because I don't think he's a good enough all around player to stay on the floor more than 15-18 minutes a night at least for his first couple years. We didn't win with Dalembert so I doubt a guy that doesn't play that much will lead us to the promise land. I know the players we have do have more experience and stuff so a defensive presence might help us more than it would have a couple years ago, but I just don't think it will help enough to win anything anytime soon.
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The promised land in this draft is heading to New Orleans. You can live with a big man who doesn't need a lot of shots and can probable play some NBA level big man defense protecting the basket not too long into his career. Cousins will shoot enough for the both of them anyway.
 
People were making the same arguments for Thabeet, and look how that turned out. Drummond underachieved so damn badly, he had no feel for the game and a poor motor. All the skills he was supposed to have a decent foundation for (handles, passing, jump shot) were nowhere to be found. He's basically an inch shorter DeAndre Jordan at best. But hey, I don't really care all that much about this draft, so if the Kings want to take a shot in the dark that will probably take a long time to develop over bad fits like Sullinger and Lamb, or trade-down targets like T. Jones or Zeller, have at it.
 
Bricklayer said:
Barnes does not work with Cousins, Reke, Thornton and IT. No shots. Somebody would have to go, or we have to trade the pick.

BTW, Drummond was a frosh last year. Some frosh numbers:

Drummond: 28.4min 10.0pts (.538) 7.6reb 2.7blk
Duncan: 30.4min 9.8pts (.545) 9.6reb 3.8blk
Camby 21.4min 10.2pts (.494) 6.4reb 3.6blk
Ewing 28.8min 12.7pts (.631) 7.5reb 3.2blk
Noah 9.4min 3.7pts (.600) 2.5reb 0.7blk
Hibbert 15.8min 5.1pts (.469) 3.5reb 1.3blk

etc.

There is a reason they say big men take the longest to develop. Whatever the reasons to not take Drummond "only" averaging 10pts 7.6reb as a frosh center is not one of them. Lot of players who have anchored a lot of great teams have been no better, or worse.
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Lovely. Except all of those guys spent 4 years at school and are/were known as some of the hardest working players during their tenure in the NBA. With Drummond, it's blatantly obvious that he's been coasting on his size, strength, and athleticism and did not make the proper adjustments at the college level. It's not a matter of bigs taking time to develop; it's a matter of Drummond showcasing very little skill and a questionable motor during the game
 
Gary said:
Because I don't think he's a good enough all around player to stay on the floor more than 15-18 minutes a night at least for his first couple years. We didn't win with Dalembert so I doubt a guy that doesn't play that much will lead us to the promise land. I know the players we have do have more experience and stuff so a defensive presence might help us more than it would have a couple years ago, but I just don't think it will help enough to win anything anytime soon.
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we didn't win with daly because we had a moron by the name of westfail shuffling line ups like he's a dealer at redhawk casino
 
At the end of the day, we're most likely taking Barnes with us. All three other teams ahead of us could take Drummond, especially if he explodes at the workouts. That's what Tristan Thompson and Biyombo did last year that shocked people. Two of those risk-taker teams are ahead of us in this draft, so I wouldn't be surprised if one of those teams take Andre.
 
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Vlade4GM said:
People were making the same arguments for Thabeet, and look how that turned out. Drummond underachieved so damn badly, he had no feel for the game and a poor motor. All the skills he was supposed to have a decent foundation for (handles, passing, jump shot) were nowhere to be found. He's basically an inch shorter DeAndre Jordan at best. But hey, I don't really care all that much about this draft, so if the Kings want to take a shot in the dark that will probably take a long time to develop over bad fits like Sullinger and Lamb, or trade-down targets like T. Jones or Zeller, have at it.
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Thabeet is long so even with his not great mobility he dominated in college. In the NBA he met with 3 seconds rule, plus better spacing, plus PnR and became too exploitable on the defensive end after he was drafted to be...defensive specialist. Drummond is very mobile and apparently is advised to improve even more in this department. Drummond is very talented, just not skilled in basically every department.
 
The_Jamal said:
Lovely. Except all of those guys spent 4 years at school and are/were known as some of the hardest working players during their tenure in the NBA. With Drummond, it's blatantly obvious that he's been coasting on his size, strength, and athleticism and did not make the proper adjustments at the college level. It's not a matter of bigs taking time to develop; it's a matter of Drummond showcasing very little skill and a questionable motor during the game
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Well, so did Tyreke for two years and now we know it was only partly his fault. Drummond's HS coach has graduated from the same school of thought as Westfall and in college he had ill Calhoun for half the season, assistant coach trying to prepare for upcoming games and position himself to replace Calhoun for the other half.
 
Thabeet and Drummond are turtle and rabbit in terms of mobility.
And Drummond have better hands than Thabeet.
Better not drain the comparison to that direction.

DeAndre Jordan or McGee would be the sort of player he will be even if he only reach half of his potential.
 
Bricklayer said:
It is absolutely everything we need that player to do offenisvely. It would be nice if he could hit a facing jumper too. But Cousins is one of the best jumpshooting bigs himself, and plenty of time for a guy like Drummond to develop it.

Peeps, THERE ARE NO SHOTS. Far from it in fact. We actualy have negative shots in truth -- we already had more players demanding shots than could take them.

You bring in Barnes who's contribution of note is again shooting...the only way to make it fly is to dump one of Reke/Thornton/IT. And frankly two of those guys are going to be needed to keep poor little fragile Harrison in his perfect shooting spots and form. That means moving Thornton. Except Barnes, despite being a poor man's Glen Robinson type, has yet to show any real range on his shot, and so you are going backwards in three point shooting, which is something you need, and still have the big hole at shotblocking PF.

Combining two rumors, here is how Barnes works as the pick:

1) draft Harrison Barnes at #5
2) trade Marcus Thornton, Chuck Hayes and Jimmer Fredette for Kyle Lowry and Samuel Dalembert
3) resign Jaosn Thompson and Terrence Williams

C- Cousins
PF- Dalembert
SF- Barnes
SG- Evans
PG- Lowry

PG- Isaiah Thomas
SG/SF- Terrence Williams
PF/C- Jason Thompson

SG/SF - Francisco Garcia
PF/C - Hassan Whiteside
SF - Tyler Honeycutt

amnesty and dump as much of the other junk as you can.


Its cost effective. It replaces the lost 3pt shooting of Thornton with Lowry. It brings back our rim protector. It means there are always multiple creative guards on the floor to set poor little Harrison up for his perfect shots. It cleans up roles and should be a much better defensive team. In short it makes too much sense for us to do (even if Houston would take the trade).
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This makes no sense at all. Why would we trade a proven clutch 20 ppg scorer with upside and our #1 pick last year for a troubled PG who shoots 40% from the floor and an old center who shows up for camp each year out of shape? All just to get our pieces to "fit" better together? Sure it does make it fit better but it reduces our overall talent level which is already currently lacking. That's the thing, everybody thinks we have so much talent but we actually don't. That roster above would win 25 games next year. We need to draft the best player available and work from there. We could find another way to get rid of our junk and rework the roster.
 
The worst case scenario is this: Davis, MKG, Barnes and Drummond off the board. We have to take one from Beal and Robinson. Robinson I believe is a bad fit next to Cuz. Beal could be good, but if we draft him we need to move Thornton. If this is the case, we should consider trading down to get a proven player and a pick in the 10-14 range.

If the choice is between Drummond and Barnes, I'd pick Drummond. Barnes demands too many shots, we already have enough players who want to take shots. Drummond could be a great fit, a DeAndre Jordan kind of player who will be almost perfect next to Cousins. If he also reaches his potential, we could be set for 10/12 years.
 
OptimusRhyme said:
The kids 19 years old.. he has lots of time too learn the fundamentals of defensive rebounding. He'd be playing with one of the best rebounders in the league. Im sure Cousins could teach him a thing or two about defensive rebounding.. And if we dont take him who do we select?

Robinson who is the same as Thompson only shorter ? Barnes who is a shooter? Beal who is an undersized SG? We need defensive role players.. This years playoffs have proven that. I'd like too see Petrie show some balls and go for a defensive player for once, even if its high risk high reward... It's the direction the franchise needs too take. No more of these non defensive scorers that demand shots. At some point we are going too need to get someone like Dummond.

Its easy to find players like Barnes,Beal,Robinson.. Its a little tougher to find an Athletic/Quick/Physical/Mobile Center like Andre.
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It's not easy to find a Robinson. He's a bigger Gerald Wallace.
 
OptimusRhyme said:
The kids 19 years old.. he has lots of time too learn the fundamentals of defensive rebounding. He'd be playing with one of the best rebounders in the league. Im sure Cousins could teach him a thing or two about defensive rebounding.. And if we dont take him who do we select?

Robinson who is the same as Thompson only shorter ? Barnes who is a shooter? Beal who is an undersized SG? We need defensive role players.. This years playoffs have proven that. I'd like too see Petrie show some balls and go for a defensive player for once, even if its high risk high reward... It's the direction the franchise needs too take. No more of these non defensive scorers that demand shots. At some point we are going too need to get someone like Dummond.

Its easy to find players like Barnes,Beal,Robinson.. Its a little tougher to find an Athletic/Quick/Physical/Mobile Center like Andre.
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I would not be against taking Drummond! One thing is for sure, if Maloofs keep out of it then Petrie will pick a very good player at 5!

My line of thinking is that we really don't have the time for a project to develop. We need to get serious and we need help NOW and not some production from a player in 2-3 years time! We already have Whiteside and Honeycutt as prospects!

I would be more than happy if we traded the pick for immediate help at a position of need! The last thing we need is a player who cannot contribute straight away.
 
Kingster said:
http://kansascity.sbnation.com/kans...12-thomas-robinson-sacramento-kings-chad-ford

This is the best case according to Chad Ford: Thomas Robinson. And as Ford says, he could improve the "culture" of the Kings It would be fantastic to have this guy.
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I see Robinson and think he compares to a Paul Milsap kind of player. I don't deny the motor and attitude are great. But he's short and struggled against taller players in college. And the 6-10 measurement in shoes is highly suspect. I see a 6-8 player when I look at him. He may have been measured in shoes, but I doubt he could play in those same shoes if they have 2 inch heels. I don't know if he fits well next to Cousins as a PF. I think it does little to improve the defense in the paint.
 
Gilles said:
Thabeet is long so even with his not great mobility he dominated in college. In the NBA he met with 3 seconds rule, plus better spacing, plus PnR and became too exploitable on the defensive end after he was drafted to be...defensive specialist. Drummond is very mobile and apparently is advised to improve even more in this department. Drummond is very talented, just not skilled in basically every department.
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I wasn't trying to make a literal comparison between them, but the argument of fit vs. need was argued in favor of Thabeet. Obviously it never became a dilemma for the Kings, but it was an argument being made here, and it's a classic example of what can go horribly wrong by going that route. You hurt your chances of getting a quality player by narrowing your scope to need. It's already a crapshoot, and you're lowering your odds even more. I'd respect an actual argument for Drummond the player being the best available, but I don't respect arguments about how he superficially fits some prototype of a player we need the most, so therefore we should take him. I don't get it, we don't pick a safer player because they could be a bad fit and hurt the development of the team by adding more redundant talent, but we would pick a player that's basically going to be athletic foul machine for at least the first two years? How does that help the team right now?

Yes, Drummond has a pretty rare combination of strength and athleticism, but a big reason why he was so hyped was because it was said that he had the makings a good face-up game (decent ball handling, jump shot, and some passing skills), and either Calhoun was hiding it, or it was greatly exaggerated, or his skills receded. The latter two explanations are huge red flags. Yeah, 6'10 260 players that can explode like him don't come around very often, but if he has no offensive game? I'll wait for the measurements to come out, but if he's basically Amare with some more bulk, but without the makings of the face-game or SG speed/blow-by ability of Amare, then does he really have that much raw talent to carry him?

Like anyone else, I'd love for Drummond to pan out at the 5th pick for us, that'd be awesome, and it's fun fantasizing about what he could become, but that's how teams end up wasting their pick. Like I said though, I probably won't care all that much when it really comes down to it, this draft is so disappointing.
 
JB_kings said:
I see Robinson and think he compares to a Paul Milsap kind of player. I don't deny the motor and attitude are great. But he's short and struggled against taller players in college. And the 6-10 measurement in shoes is highly suspect. I see a 6-8 player when I look at him. He may have been measured in shoes, but I doubt he could play in those same shoes if they have 2 inch heels. I don't know if he fits well next to Cousins as a PF. I think it does little to improve the defense in the paint.
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Paul Millsap may be a pretty lucky outcome to come away with in this draft.
 
Drummond might have amongst the most upside in the draft but he's also (probably) going to take a good while to get there. He's a good shot-blocker though and he'd be under no pressure to perform off the bat on offense next to Cuz. He has no post game to speak of and no jumper.

Another project though, this far into a rebuild you'd be looking for Cuz to make another massive leap this year if we were thinking anywhere near the playoffs taking drummond and having no top level moves in free agency/trades.
 
JB_kings said:
I see Robinson and think he compares to a Paul Milsap kind of player. I don't deny the motor and attitude are great. But he's short and struggled against taller players in college. And the 6-10 measurement in shoes is highly suspect. I see a 6-8 player when I look at him. He may have been measured in shoes, but I doubt he could play in those same shoes if they have 2 inch heels. I don't know if he fits well next to Cousins as a PF. I think it does little to improve the defense in the paint.
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He's a more athletic Milsap. And he's bigger. That looks pretty good to me.
 
I like Barnes... best case is Paul Pierce for him imo. A ton of upside and he fills a need. He's full sized as well which is always a plus.
 
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