Big Cuz 15
All-Star
Forgot where i read smart said that reke at sf was over. Im pretty sure it was the goof brothers idea to market it for roy which forced reke out of positiin
Worst case scenario is Drummond.... Right ?
- Thread starter Anthony1
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Forgot where i read smart said that reke at sf was over. Im pretty sure it was the goof brothers idea to market it for roy which forced reke out of positiin
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Of course the question always is with Samrt does anything he say matter for more then game to game? Especially when he says one thing at the end of summer and then has a whole summer to wobble. Anyway, that's a different thread.
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Maybe Smart meant on another team. As in, I moved Tyreke to SF to let his game grow there, so that eventually when he was moved back to PG on another team he would be able to beat the **** out of our weak-*** no D backcourt.
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rainmaker
Hall of Famer
True, and it's mostly guess work with him. But that statement combined with Reke being immediately more involved after his agent came to town(although MT being out might have contributed), leads me to believe there's at least some truth to the thought process.
I erased that part of my post because, in reality, I don't know a thing about Drummond except that he sucks. I wouldn't draft him. He's like Amare Stoudemire on defense and on the boards and like Joel Anthony on offense.
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kingsfan101
Starter
This is a fair point. As I mention in one of my earlier posts, have never seen him play, and certainly there are concerns about him, which is the reason he might fall to us (or lower).
I agree that lack of motor is different than lack of maturity. Whether the former can also improve with time (or only in a contract year), I don't really know. I do think though, that sometimes, particularly in a young player, using them right can make a difference. Not saying this might happen with him, but some players shall play harder if the coaches consciously involve them, and tend to drift otherwise.
Does that raise major red flags about him, or mark him as high maintenance? Yes. I guess if the FO and coaching staff feel they can get through to him, and the potential compensates the risk, they might pick him (assuming he's available of course). If we skip on him, and he blows up somewhere else, it shall be a blunder for the ages though.
kingsfan101
Starter
Would like to add one more thing. Some people want to go with a "safe" pick. While it can mean a lot of things, realistically, we can pick a player who needs some time to develop, since we are not making the playoffs next year.
It's sad to say this, given that we already have the longest active streak in the lottery, but we finished 14th this year in our conference. None of the teams above us are really slipping (Suns might if Nash goes, Blazers might, given that they had GW for more than half the season this time). But NO, that finished below us, shall get Davis, number 10 pick, and Eric Gordon, Ws shall be getting Andrew Bogut (should be much better than Monta), Wolves shall have a full season of Rubio, Dallas might get much better if it gets Nash/DW, and can turn Odom into something useful. I don't really see us moving past so many teams.
Taking a player from a winning culture and strong motor can improve the overall culture of our team, which might provide greater benefit. However, we don't really need a "safe" pick to push us into playoff race, since realistically, we won't be in it.
It's sad to say this, given that we already have the longest active streak in the lottery, but we finished 14th this year in our conference. None of the teams above us are really slipping (Suns might if Nash goes, Blazers might, given that they had GW for more than half the season this time). But NO, that finished below us, shall get Davis, number 10 pick, and Eric Gordon, Ws shall be getting Andrew Bogut (should be much better than Monta), Wolves shall have a full season of Rubio, Dallas might get much better if it gets Nash/DW, and can turn Odom into something useful. I don't really see us moving past so many teams.
Taking a player from a winning culture and strong motor can improve the overall culture of our team, which might provide greater benefit. However, we don't really need a "safe" pick to push us into playoff race, since realistically, we won't be in it.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
My major hope if we take him is that Cliff Ray and Cousins find a way to motivate him. Smart also is going to have to read the tea leaves and watch the high school video. He wants to play away from the basket on offense or he wouldn't have said he wants to be like Kevin Durant. I think that's where his offense would come from. Although I don't think he has an outside shot, he definitely can put the ball on the floor and drive to the rim. At 280 pounds that is a frightening thing for any defense to think about. Far more importantly, it opens up the paint for Tyreke and Cousins. I hate to say it because it sounds a little reminiscent of the Tyreke conversation but if he develops even the smallest skill as a mid distance shooter or already has the skill, he will drag his defender out. He certainly can drive to the basket and I wouldn't be surprised if he was better than Cousins at that. Appease him in that manner which coincidently seems to be playing him where he is most skilled, might keep his head in the game so he will have a little more energy for defense. I suspect he can guard PFs and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the fall off in his game in college was either because he had never been told to stay near the rim and might not know what to do or he was in a funk because playing near the rim is just no fun for him. Either way, we don't need him near the rim on offense.
It makes sense to me.
what does it say that reke isnt gonna play sf anymore does it say where he is gonna start at next year?
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Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
This is how I'm approaching it as well. Employ him as a defender and energy guy, any offensive production we get from him is just a bonus. As Brick has pointed out, there haven't exactly been too many 20ppg pairs in the frontcourt. With JT as our third big and Hayes as our man-on-man big defender, we'd be good shape in the front court for a while, regardless of whether or not Drummund gets any offensive drive or not.
Smart says he's going to move Tyreke back to the 1 (point guard position) but can we really trust him? I'm praying we acquire a starting SF somehow this off-season so Smart is forced to play Tyreke as a guard again. Whether it's SG or PG doesn't matter that much.
Telemachus
Starter
Smart stated before ever useing Tyreke a SF that he didn't like the idea of using him there. But with the solid play of IT (and the poor play from everyone at SF) he was almost forced to move him there to get production at every position in the starting lineup. I would hope that the Kings can fill the hole at SF allowing them to move Tyreke back to the guard position where he is most effective. This would also allow the Kings to use IT off the bench as a change of pace player (where I think he would be perfect).
Kingster
Hall of Famer
If he scratches the surface, he's a bust. It takes work to become an NBA player. If this draft was a very weak draft, if we had a coach, management and owners who were great (like the Spurs), then fine, you take him a do a prayer vigil. Those conditions don't apply, however, so you pass and choose another player.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
There is something wrong with you if you believe Drummond scratching his potential = bust. Open your eyes, his physical abilities coupled with the skillset he's shown (occasionally) mean he will be at least an all-star level player if he reaches his potential.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Big men who are more athletic and better built than Dwight Howard don't exactly come around every year.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Neither do the majority of big men coming into the league these days. Most colleges do a terrible job of developing their big men, hence the whole "it takes a couple of years for bigs to come into their own in the NBA" thing.
gunks
Hall of Famer
Drummond also has no heart or brains. It would be one thing if he was a raw banger, but this dude avoided contact in college, when he outweighed other bigs by 40-60lbs.
His insane measurements make him seem like even more of a risk. How does a guy who measured out as a bigger, more athletic Dwight Howard not kill it in the NCAA? Was he pouting because he wasnt allowed to play like Durant? But at the same time, how do you ignore the upside of someone who measured out as a bigger, more athletic Dwight Howard? GMs are going to get ulcers over this kid.
If we did pick him I would be optimistic at the potential to have such a freak playing alongside Cousins...But I really think we need to take how **** our franchise is at developing youth, and how **** it is in general, culture wise. Clifford Ray helps, but dont forget we have Smart at the reigns...And who knows who the Magoofs fall in love with as HC after he gets fired.
I still think our showing interest in Drummond is a smokescreen. GP is trying to scare a team into trading up with us, which I dont think is that bad an idea, especially when there are players like Jones (Terrance) and Henson floating around picks 10-14ish.
His insane measurements make him seem like even more of a risk. How does a guy who measured out as a bigger, more athletic Dwight Howard not kill it in the NCAA? Was he pouting because he wasnt allowed to play like Durant? But at the same time, how do you ignore the upside of someone who measured out as a bigger, more athletic Dwight Howard? GMs are going to get ulcers over this kid.
If we did pick him I would be optimistic at the potential to have such a freak playing alongside Cousins...But I really think we need to take how **** our franchise is at developing youth, and how **** it is in general, culture wise. Clifford Ray helps, but dont forget we have Smart at the reigns...And who knows who the Magoofs fall in love with as HC after he gets fired.
I still think our showing interest in Drummond is a smokescreen. GP is trying to scare a team into trading up with us, which I dont think is that bad an idea, especially when there are players like Jones (Terrance) and Henson floating around picks 10-14ish.
Siranthony
Starter
No brains or heart? How can you know that? I disagree. I'd be more concerned about his attitude and how he will react to getting a lot of money. That's something we don't know.
Uncia03
Starter
I'm leery of Drummond and you're right in that he'll give GMs ulcers...and it's his physical gifts that make it so hard to wrap a head around his poor play at UCONN.
But with that said...there is no way I want Henson.
He weighed in at 215, after spending 3 years trying to gain weight. And did you hear what he said in his combine interview. He's hoping he can gain another 20 pounds in the next couple of years. Can you imagine that?
There is no way you can have an interior starting PF hoping that he'll weigh in at 235 2-3 years down the line. And if you're not looking for a starter then he shouldn't be someone taken in the lottery.
We have 1 starting big and hopefully an outstanding 3rd big in JT, so if we're going to draft a big man in the 1st round, it needs to be someone who can potentially be starter quality.
If you're looking for bigs around the 10th pick, I'm going with Myers Leonard with-out hesitation. He's got the body and athleticism, and showed well in the skill drills in Chicago.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Without wanting to offend, it's pretty clear you're unaware of a persons capability to build muscle. Actually, most people are. You often hear people saying a player needs to gain 15-20lbs of muscle over the off season. This is not possible unless you use illegal substances. You might put on 20lbs over the off-season, but it is not all going to be lean muscle, alot is going to be fat. Someone just beginning to lift weights might gain 20lbs of muscle over their first year, and quite frankly, that's on the higher end of the spectrum and can't be achieved without a large work ethic and strict dedication to diet.
Henson is clearly an ectomorph. I'm sure he's well aware of the body's limitations after trying to gain muscle over the last couple years. 20lbs of muscle in the next couple of years would be a good gain for him. He's completely right in what he says - he's simply being realistic. Doesn't matter how tall he is, in fact, that can make it more difficult to build lean muscle. He's not going to put on much more than that unless you want him to eat dirty and put on a lot of fat, which will not help him. It's not that he's not aiming high, it's that he's informed and educated about weight-lifting and he gave a realistic answer. He could have said he wants to gain 40lbs of muscle in the next few years but that's simply not going to happen unless he's on the juice.
With the right nutrition and professional trainers, there is no reason he can't put on 20lbs over the next few seasons, as long as he is willing to put in the work. If he gets to 235+ I think he will be fine. This isn't a post calling for us to draft him (although I'm not necessarily against it), I just don't want something he said criticised unfairly.
Uncia03
Starter
No offense taken...but wow, you completely missed the point I'm trying to make.
He's spent 3 years trying to add 20 or so pounds to his frame and I believe that it will take him a couple of years to add another 20 or so pounds of lean muscle.
I'm not saying that that I can't believe that it will take so long to add weight, I'm saying that I believe it will take that long to add weight (if he can get there at all).
And to be frank, there is no way to survive as an interior PF if you're weighing in at 215-225. You will get eaten alive in there.
And for that reason, I want nothing to do with him, especially if it costs us a lottery pick.
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Dime Dropper
All-Star
Fair enough, I did miss your point. I thought you were shocked that he only aimed to add 20 or so more lbs over the next couple years. Still, he should be able to get over 235+ by his prime with the right guidance.
I'm not going to disagree with anything else you said, because I simply don't know. I like his game a lot, but nobody knows if his strength will stand up to the NBA. I hope he's OK, but I have some doubts too.
drummond is going 6th to portland or 7th to warriors
According to NBA.com the article for Barnes... Chicago looks to have a deal with a "top five team" for Deng.
Sacramento gets their overpriced SF: Deng
Chicago gets Beal or Barnes (with fifth pick) and gets salary cap relief to pay for pg in Rose's absence.
1hornets-davis
2 cats-thomas rob
3 wiz mkg/beal
4 cavs beal/mkg
5 Chicago Barnes
6 Portland Drummond
***This is if Portland and Cleveland don't switch first rounders to ruin the whole thing first!
If we resign T-will and JT it would make us deccent!
IT-(Tyreke)
Tyreke-Thorton
Deng-Twill
JT-Hayes
Cousins
Third stringers
Jimmer-prison camp pg
Garcia/Salmons
Honeycut
Second round Big
Whiteside
We need rapid development of Whiteside and Honeycutt!
According to NBA.com the article for Barnes... Chicago looks to have a deal with a "top five team" for Deng.
Sacramento gets their overpriced SF: Deng
Chicago gets Beal or Barnes (with fifth pick) and gets salary cap relief to pay for pg in Rose's absence.
1hornets-davis
2 cats-thomas rob
3 wiz mkg/beal
4 cavs beal/mkg
5 Chicago Barnes
6 Portland Drummond
***This is if Portland and Cleveland don't switch first rounders to ruin the whole thing first!
If we resign T-will and JT it would make us deccent!
IT-(Tyreke)
Tyreke-Thorton
Deng-Twill
JT-Hayes
Cousins
Third stringers
Jimmer-prison camp pg
Garcia/Salmons
Honeycut
Second round Big
Whiteside
We need rapid development of Whiteside and Honeycutt!
Glenn
Hall of Famer
You've never seen me.
Let's be 100% clear that the article (link) does not in any way, shape, or form suggest that the Bulls have a Deng-#5 deal in place, or even that one has been discussed. This article is simply Sam Smith, who works for bulls.com, thinking up ways that the Bulls can get a high lottery pick and slough off Deng's salary.
roasthawg
Starter
Not a fan... would rather the younger player with upside than the established player who's a middle of the road talent. SF wise I'd take MKG or Barnes over Deng. Would also prefer Drummond or Robinson to Deng as well.
so angry captain
But Barnes is an interesting figure, as he’s been described with an upside somewhere between Luol Deng and Glen Rice. There’s a potential scenario in which the Bulls could trade Deng for a top five pick to select Barnes, or if he is taken, Florida shooting guard Bradley Beal. The Bulls would have a potential young star to develop with Derrick Rose upon his return and then enough money with Deng traded to get a point guard to play much of next season for Rose, someone like Jason Kidd, Kirk Hinrich, Andre Miller, Steve Nash or Ray Felton. NBA.com
Specifically says TOP FIVE PICK, oh yeah settle down!
I am not happy with Deng either, but then why the hell are we working out late lottery type players? Jones, Zeller, etc something has to be up... I thought at first chicago might had a mid first, but all they have is a pick at the end of the first.
But Barnes is an interesting figure, as he’s been described with an upside somewhere between Luol Deng and Glen Rice. There’s a potential scenario in which the Bulls could trade Deng for a top five pick to select Barnes, or if he is taken, Florida shooting guard Bradley Beal. The Bulls would have a potential young star to develop with Derrick Rose upon his return and then enough money with Deng traded to get a point guard to play much of next season for Rose, someone like Jason Kidd, Kirk Hinrich, Andre Miller, Steve Nash or Ray Felton. NBA.com
Specifically says TOP FIVE PICK, oh yeah settle down!
I am not happy with Deng either, but then why the hell are we working out late lottery type players? Jones, Zeller, etc something has to be up... I thought at first chicago might had a mid first, but all they have is a pick at the end of the first.
