Willie Cauley-Stein

[mac]

OK - I'm iffy on Willie. I think he's an asset, but he's more useful on a playoff team as a fringe starter, and not worth anything more than a 3 year mid-level contract (ie $8-10m per year).

Here's the current state: he's an athletic plus defender and good passer for a big who takes care of the ball. On the downside, he's a slightly below-average rebounder and might never have reliable range outside of the basket. He hasn't gained any muscle or much strength, which has limited his game in the paint as well as vs. stronger matchups on the perimeter. Qualitatively, he's a space cadet at times, and does not do a good job setting screens.

Athletic bigs who can defend and pass well are a rare commodity. I'd keep Willie on a 3-year mid-range contract on that basis alone. I think he can still improve his rebounding (more on that later) and his passing will continue to improve. I'm not sure he'll ever expand his shooting game, as it's gotten worse every year, but I can live with that if he can cut his frequency in the midrange. Liability-wise, I'm worried about his focus and long-term health: if he's relegated to a rim-running role, will he lose interest in basketball altogether? Will his lack of strength cause durability issues? What will affect will his habits have on team culture? So there's potential liability, and a potentially immoveable contract as well if he loses interest or gets injured.

And now some statistical analysis, c/o Cleaning the Glass data:

Where He's Regressed

• Compared to other bigs in the league, he's in the bottom 25% of FG% from midrange, and this has gotten worse every year as his frequency has increased (he takes more midrange shots than 82% of bigs in the league - yikes!)
• His FT accuracy is the lowest of his three-year career (62%) putting him at the bottom 15% for bigs.
• His block rate (1.8%) declined from top-third in year one (2.4%) to slightly above league average for bigs, but slightly improved from last year.

Where He's Improved

• He's a good passer for a big, and has improved mightily every year (top 80% with a 12.7% assist rate). I never saw this coming, tbh.
• Taking care of the ball - even with his usage rate increasing every year he's kept his turnover rate flat at under 12% (top-third)
• He has improved drawing more fouls this year (on his shots as well as on non-shooting fouls)
• His steal rate is in the top 90% for bigs and has been improving every year
• He's fouling less every year, now in the top-third for bigs in lowest foul rate
• His offensive rebounding rate has slightly improved from last year (now slightly below league average in offensive rebounding) but still not as good as year 1 (top-third)
• His defensive rebounding rate has improved every year from and is now slightly above league average

So in actuality, he's improved more than he's declined. But is he meeting expectations? Slight no. We expected a top-tier shotblocker and defender, above average rebounder, and competent scorer. He's an above-average defender, more-than-competent scorer if he cuts the midrange shots, and an average rebounder/shotblocker (but both should be better due to his height). His lack of improvement in strength and muscle mass has negated a lot of defensive and rebounding potential, as has his focus. But he's also improved in other areas like passing, defending (outside of shotblocking), and overall skill.

Let's consider this last tidbit - how #6 picks perform. Over the last 20 years with the #6 pick he possesses the 5th highest PER thus far in his career, and is above league average and improving his PER every year. The median PER is between 11-12. Perhaps our expectations for the #6 have been to high?

Thanks for the good breakdown. I think the issue is that I don't see him accepting 3y 8-10mil each. I think he sees himself as a 15mil player, and as I said in another thread, the key to his value is being able to defend AD, Blake, KP etc. That's the only reason why you'd value his mobility, because you shouldn't be relying on your C to guard backcourt players. If pick and roll defense is bad due to poor guard defense, the obvious solution is to improve guard defense, not to overpay for a non-rebounding, non-shot blocking C to defend the pick and roll.

 

[ParniValjak]

OK - I'm iffy on Willie. I think he's an asset, but he's more useful on a playoff team as a fringe starter, and not worth anything more than a 3 year mid-level contract (ie $8-10m per year).

Here's the current state: he's an athletic plus defender and good passer for a big who takes care of the ball. On the downside, he's a slightly below-average rebounder and might never have reliable range outside of the basket. He hasn't gained any muscle or much strength, which has limited his game in the paint as well as vs. stronger matchups on the perimeter. Qualitatively, he's a space cadet at times, and does not do a good job setting screens.

Athletic bigs who can defend and pass well are a rare commodity. I'd keep Willie on a 3-year mid-range contract on that basis alone. I think he can still improve his rebounding (more on that later) and his passing will continue to improve. I'm not sure he'll ever expand his shooting game, as it's gotten worse every year, but I can live with that if he can cut his frequency in the midrange. Liability-wise, I'm worried about his focus and long-term health: if he's relegated to a rim-running role, will he lose interest in basketball altogether? Will his lack of strength cause durability issues? What will affect will his habits have on team culture? So there's potential liability, and a potentially immoveable contract as well if he loses interest or gets injured.

And now some statistical analysis, c/o Cleaning the Glass data:

Where He's Regressed

• Compared to other bigs in the league, he's in the bottom 25% of FG% from midrange, and this has gotten worse every year as his frequency has increased (he takes more midrange shots than 82% of bigs in the league - yikes!)
• His FT accuracy is the lowest of his three-year career (62%) putting him at the bottom 15% for bigs.
• His block rate (1.8%) declined from top-third in year one (2.4%) to slightly above league average for bigs, but slightly improved from last year.

Where He's Improved

• He's a good passer for a big, and has improved mightily every year (top 80% with a 12.7% assist rate). I never saw this coming, tbh.
• Taking care of the ball - even with his usage rate increasing every year he's kept his turnover rate flat at under 12% (top-third)
• He has improved drawing more fouls this year (on his shots as well as on non-shooting fouls)
• His steal rate is in the top 90% for bigs and has been improving every year
• He's fouling less every year, now in the top-third for bigs in lowest foul rate
• His offensive rebounding rate has slightly improved from last year (now slightly below league average in offensive rebounding) but still not as good as year 1 (top-third)
• His defensive rebounding rate has improved every year from and is now slightly above league average

So in actuality, he's improved more than he's declined. But is he meeting expectations? Slight no. We expected a top-tier shotblocker and defender, above average rebounder, and competent scorer. He's an above-average defender, more-than-competent scorer if he cuts the midrange shots, and an average rebounder/shotblocker (but both should be better due to his height). His lack of improvement in strength and muscle mass has negated a lot of defensive and rebounding potential, as has his focus. But he's also improved in other areas like passing, defending (outside of shotblocking), and overall skill.

Let's consider this last tidbit - how #6 picks perform. Over the last 20 years with the #6 pick he possesses the 5th highest PER thus far in his career, and is above league average and improving his PER every year. The median PER is between 11-12. Perhaps our expectations for the #6 have been to high?

Now this is some quality analysis. Some good stuff in there! Great effort!

 

[sactowndog]

OK - I'm iffy on Willie. I think he's an asset, but he's more useful on a playoff team as a fringe starter, and not worth anything more than a 3 year mid-level contract (ie $8-10m per year).

Here's the current state: he's an athletic plus defender and good passer for a big who takes care of the ball. On the downside, he's a slightly below-average rebounder and might never have reliable range outside of the basket. He hasn't gained any muscle or much strength, which has limited his game in the paint as well as vs. stronger matchups on the perimeter. Qualitatively, he's a space cadet at times, and does not do a good job setting screens.

Athletic bigs who can defend and pass well are a rare commodity. I'd keep Willie on a 3-year mid-range contract on that basis alone. I think he can still improve his rebounding (more on that later) and his passing will continue to improve. I'm not sure he'll ever expand his shooting game, as it's gotten worse every year, but I can live with that if he can cut his frequency in the midrange. Liability-wise, I'm worried about his focus and long-term health: if he's relegated to a rim-running role, will he lose interest in basketball altogether? Will his lack of strength cause durability issues? What will affect will his habits have on team culture? So there's potential liability, and a potentially immoveable contract as well if he loses interest or gets injured.

And now some statistical analysis, c/o Cleaning the Glass data:

Where He's Regressed

• Compared to other bigs in the league, he's in the bottom 25% of FG% from midrange, and this has gotten worse every year as his frequency has increased (he takes more midrange shots than 82% of bigs in the league - yikes!)
• His FT accuracy is the lowest of his three-year career (62%) putting him at the bottom 15% for bigs.
• His block rate (1.8%) declined from top-third in year one (2.4%) to slightly above league average for bigs, but slightly improved from last year.

Where He's Improved

• He's a good passer for a big, and has improved mightily every year (top 80% with a 12.7% assist rate). I never saw this coming, tbh.
• Taking care of the ball - even with his usage rate increasing every year he's kept his turnover rate flat at under 12% (top-third)
• He has improved drawing more fouls this year (on his shots as well as on non-shooting fouls)
• His steal rate is in the top 90% for bigs and has been improving every year
• He's fouling less every year, now in the top-third for bigs in lowest foul rate
• His offensive rebounding rate has slightly improved from last year (now slightly below league average in offensive rebounding) but still not as good as year 1 (top-third)
• His defensive rebounding rate has improved every year from and is now slightly above league average

So in actuality, he's improved more than he's declined. But is he meeting expectations? Slight no. We expected a top-tier shotblocker and defender, above average rebounder, and competent scorer. He's an above-average defender, more-than-competent scorer if he cuts the midrange shots, and an average rebounder/shotblocker (but both should be better due to his height). His lack of improvement in strength and muscle mass has negated a lot of defensive and rebounding potential, as has his focus. But he's also improved in other areas like passing, defending (outside of shotblocking), and overall skill.

Let's consider this last tidbit - how #6 picks perform. Over the last 20 years with the #6 pick he possesses the 5th highest PER thus far in his career, and is above league average and improving his PER every year. The median PER is between 11-12. Perhaps our expectations for the #6 have been to high?

I am not sure I agree he’s a good passer. His assist to pass % is not that strong for NBA centers

http://stats.nba.com/players/passing/?sort=AST_TO_PASS_PCT_ADJ&dir=1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular Season&PlayerPosition=C

His willingness to pass to open 3 point shooters out of the post is among the worst in the league and contributes to our low 3 point shooting attempts.

http://stats.nba.com/players/tracking-post-ups/?sort=POST_TOUCH_PASSES_PCT&dir=1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular Season&PlayerPosition=C

 

[ESP47]

I disagree about his offense. His TS% is going down, but it's only because he's expanded his game. In his rookie year all of his shots came exclusively at the rim whether it was lobs, dunks, or putbacks. This year we're seeing him create his own shots and extend his range. He's added a solid mid-range shot, and he's improved his handles and driving ability. He's able to attack closeout which was something we never saw in his rookie year. He also has really good vision for a big with solid passing.
On the other hand, his defensive game hasn't improved much, but I do think his awareness is better. He does a better job at cutting off drivers and taking good angles of contest at the rim. However, his protection hasn't been there. He still struggles to box out.

I think WCS could definitely be a starter on a playoff team. Off the top of my head, he could start on these teams now: Spurs, Warriors, Bucks, Wizards, Cavaliers, and Celtics. He's a guy who would do well playing off of others. On a playoff team, no one is going to be looking for Willie to score like the Kings do. No one is going to be asking him to initiate the offense as much as the Kings do.

I still think the biggest question for Willie comes down to his effort and motivation. There's no reason why he can't also be a dominant force on defense on top of all the things he wants to become on offense. He's got the physical gifts of athleticism, length, quickness, and size to be a DPOY candidate. He was madly inconsistent in his 2nd year and even in the beginning of this year. Year 4 will be huge for him. I think it would be a mistake to trade him off for a late 1st.

I don't know where his trade value will be at in the summer, but I would only do a trade where we'd get an equally promising young player OR a higher draft pick.


While I agree, it depends on what type of return you're talking about. I'd also have no problem trading him if we drafted Ayton.

I can't really think of any potential trades with him. I'd want a player of equal value back..but can't really think of anyone.

Think of it in the context of just playing winning NBA basketball.

Your team is going to have to be efficient. If your big men aren't efficient, where is the efficiency going to come from? WCS's true shooting percentage is 3rd to last on the team with only Fox and Mason behind him (we're talking players that get regular minutes). He should theoretically have the best on the team. Gobert's TS% is .658 while Willie's is .519. Essentially Willie is shooting like a low level guard.

His expanded game is actually worse for the team because his out of control post moves and inefficient mid range shots could be 3 pointers for Hield/Bogs or Koufos hook shots or Justin Jackson floaters. All are much more efficient shots than anything Willie can take that's more than a few steps away from the basket. Just because he's capable of doing things on the court he couldn't do his rookie year, doesn't actually mean he's a better offensive player now. It just means he's capable of making those plays once in a while at an inefficient rate.

Gobert puts up the same amount of points per36 as Willie, yet it takes him 4 less shot attempts to do it. He's not out there carving up guys in the post either. He takes what's given to him and uses his advantage (body type) to play as efficiently as possible. Willie could do the same thing at a slightly lower level as Gobert but that's not what he envisions himself as.

 

[John Galt]

Anybody think WCS is worth a 2020 first rounder?

I'm for moving him. No fire in the belly as far as I've seen... very complacent and all about "his game" more than the team.

 

[kingsboi]

Think of it in the context of just playing winning NBA basketball.

Your team is going to have to be efficient. If your big men aren't efficient, where is the efficiency going to come from? WCS's true shooting percentage is 3rd to last on the team with only Fox and Mason behind him (we're talking players that get regular minutes). He should theoretically have the best on the team. Gobert's TS% is .658 while Willie's is .519. Essentially Willie is shooting like a low level guard.

His expanded game is actually worse for the team because his out of control post moves and inefficient mid range shots could be 3 pointers for Hield/Bogs or Koufos hook shots or Justin Jackson floaters. All are much more efficient shots than anything Willie can take that's more than a few steps away from the basket. Just because he's capable of doing things on the court he couldn't do his rookie year, doesn't actually mean he's a better offensive player now. It just means he's capable of making those plays once in a while at an inefficient rate.

Gobert puts up the same amount of points per36 as Willie, yet it takes him 4 less shot attempts to do it. He's not out there carving up guys in the post either. He takes what's given to him and uses his advantage (body type) to play as efficiently as possible. Willie could do the same thing at a slightly lower level as Gobert but that's not what he envisions himself as.

you bring up Gobert, I don't see Gobert playing out of his comfort zone. He knows his role and he knows his limits. He doesn't try to play like someone else and that's the situation with Willie, I cringe when I watch him shoot jumpshots. It seems that he shoots from his shoulder rather than in front of his forehead.

 

[kingsfan1984]

I don't think Harry has any bearing on Willie's future. Instead, I think it'll come down to the 2018 draft AND his new contract. Question is, when should we decide whether or not he'll be a part of the future? This summer? or the trade deadline?

There's pros and cons to both. This summer:
Pros

• Get the most trade value out of him, he's coming off a promising and improved 3rd season. He'd have 1 year left plus RFA which makes him appealing for any team
• Allows the Kings to give the other young bigs more playing time throughout the season

Cons

• He could be even better next year. He's continually(maybe inconsistently) improved every year, and there's no reason to believe he won't continue to make leaps in his game. Might be best to see how he does entering his 4th year of his rookie contract. Trading him in the summer doesn't allow us to see
• The guys behind him are complete question marks. He's continually improved every year, specifically on offense. He's only 24 and produces on the court

Unless a really good offer comes up like an exchange for an equally young and good player, I'd keep him for his 4th year. There's no rush to get rid of him. If he sucks it up, we can trade him anytime. If he's showed consistent improvements, let's offer him a reasonable extension in the offseason. If he makes giant leaps in his game, then he deserves big money from us.

This is my thinking. I'd shop him this year for a draftee if we can net a player at end of lottery with him. Might be a pipe dream but won't k ow until he is shopped. Id not trade him just to dump him lime kings did with Malachi. Still annoyed with that move since Bruno appears to not be in the plans at all.

Witj the way the league is trending, it would be interesting to come out of draft with both Porter and Knox with the long term plan of the 2 of them playing the 3 and 4 spot with Giles and Skall at the 5. Id like to keep KK for defensive matchups and rebounding depending on who we are playing. The size of Porter and Knox with rebou ding beig a strength of both plus offensove skill would make us an explosive team with the ability to still rebound on the defensive end.

 

[ockingsfan]

I don't understand the angst against Willie.

He may not be DMC, but he has proven to be a legitimate rotation big.

If Harry Giles is as advertised and Skal can round out his game and his body, a Giles-Skal-WCS big man rotation would make for one heck of a long, athletic, and young 3-man rotation.

We need to concentrate on getting a quality SF this summer, either in the draft (Doncic, Mikal Bridges, or Kevin Knox) or free agency (Mario or Rodney Hood?) and the Kings line up will be pretty good. I would only trade WCS if it brought back a stud young SF, other than that, I would wait and see how the Giles-Skal-WCS big man rotation works out.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

I don't understand the angst against Willie.

He may not be DMC, but he has proven to be a legitimate rotation big.

If Harry Giles is as advertised and Skal can round out his game and his body, a Giles-Skal-WCS big man rotation would make for one heck of a long, athletic, and young 3-man rotation.

We need to concentrate on getting a quality SF this summer, either in the draft (Doncic, Mikal Bridges, or Kevin Knox) or free agency (Mario or Rodney Hood?) and the Kings line up will be pretty good. I would only trade WCS if it brought back a stud young SF, other than that, I would wait and see how the Giles-Skal-WCS big man rotation works out.

He's an ok rotational big, but his lack of competitiveness makes him a liability a lot of the time. He doesn't fight for rebounds or loose balls, he gets the ball stripped out of his hands by smaller players, he lets anyone post him up, etc. He has the ability to improve in all of these areas but he seems more focused on just scoring. If we were in a meaningful game and we were neck and neck with the other team and WCS came into the game I would not feel good about it at all.

 

[ockingsfan]

He's an ok rotational big, but his lack of competitiveness makes him a liability a lot of the time. He doesn't fight for rebounds or loose balls, he gets the ball stripped out of his hands by smaller players, he lets anyone post him up, etc. He has the ability to improve in all of these areas but he seems more focused on just scoring. If we were in a meaningful game and we were neck and neck with the other team and WCS came into the game I would not feel good about it at all.

The thing about Willie is that he is not a stay in the lane and block and get rebounds type of big. He is a chase them down and harass them into poor shots type of big.

As evident with a game last week on the last second shot by the GSW (or Heat?), he ran out and challenged the shot that GSW missed and sealed the Kings victory.

It may not show up on the box scores as a block, but he definitely effected the outcome of that shot and win.

 

[chief bromden]

The thing about Willie is that he is not a stay in the lane and block and get rebounds type of big. He is a chase them down and harass them into poor shots type of big.

As evident with a game last week on the last second shot by the GSW (or Heat?), he ran out and challenged the shot that GSW missed and sealed the Kings victory.

It may not show up on the box scores as a block, but he definitely effected the outcome of that shot and win.

He literally blocked that shot, and it counted as a block... so I'm not sure if that's the best example of what you are getting at. If he did that more, he would have higher block totals. I get your point though, and agree to some extent that some of his defensive value doesn't show up in counting stats.

 

[The_Jamal]

Think of it in the context of just playing winning NBA basketball.

Your team is going to have to be efficient. If your big men aren't efficient, where is the efficiency going to come from? WCS's true shooting percentage is 3rd to last on the team with only Fox and Mason behind him (we're talking players that get regular minutes). He should theoretically have the best on the team. Gobert's TS% is .658 while Willie's is .519. Essentially Willie is shooting like a low level guard.

His expanded game is actually worse for the team because his out of control post moves and inefficient mid range shots could be 3 pointers for Hield/Bogs or Koufos hook shots or Justin Jackson floaters. All are much more efficient shots than anything Willie can take that's more than a few steps away from the basket. Just because he's capable of doing things on the court he couldn't do his rookie year, doesn't actually mean he's a better offensive player now. It just means he's capable of making those plays once in a while at an inefficient rate.

Gobert puts up the same amount of points per36 as Willie, yet it takes him 4 less shot attempts to do it. He's not out there carving up guys in the post either. He takes what's given to him and uses his advantage (body type) to play as efficiently as possible. Willie could do the same thing at a slightly lower level as Gobert but that's not what he envisions himself as.

Flat out, I think WCS has just regressed from what he was as a rookie. That WCS was much closer to the one we thought we were getting out of college: an athletic beast who flew around the court on defense and finished lobs on offense.

There's a huge difference in being a 58% TS on 13% USG in his rookie year to being a 51% TS on 21% USG this season. Even with a really great AST rate for a big this year, that's a huge jump in USG and a massive freefall in effectiveness. Just shows he shouldn't be used on offense nearly as much as he is.

 

[ockingsfan]

He literally blocked that shot, and it counted as a block... so I'm not sure if that's the best example of what you are getting at. If he did that more, he would have higher block totals. I get your point though, and agree to some extent that some of his defensive value doesn't show up in counting stats.

Yes, my point being, how many 7 foot centers get to the guy on the 3 point line to block or alter a game winning 3 point attempt?

Answer: Not many.

 

[ESP47]

Yes, my point being, how many 7 foot centers get to the guy on the 3 point line to block or alter a game winning 3 point attempt?

Answer: Not many.

Willie isn't even good at contesting 3 point shooters. Someone posted a chart a while back that had Willie among the bottom of the barrel when it came to contesting 3's.

Yeah Willie can do some things that not very many other big men can do but those things are only required a very small percentage of the time. Meanwhile the things he needs to be doing all game like protecting the rim and rebounding are nearly non existent.

 

[Gliesian]

He fits with a fast team and has chemistry, especially with the pick and roll. After this draft our rebuild is pretty much over and we trade for positions we're weak at, namely SF and PF.
Whatever we trade him for will be of equal value and we'll need a center out of it. So it's just shuffling around when we need stability.
He should get better when there's hope for playoffs, as most of his problems are apathetic.

 

[jcassio]

I am not sure I agree he’s a good passer. His assist to pass % is not that strong for NBA centers

http://stats.nba.com/players/passing/?sort=AST_TO_PASS_PCT_ADJ&dir=1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular Season&PlayerPosition=C

His willingness to pass to open 3 point shooters out of the post is among the worst in the league and contributes to our low 3 point shooting attempts.

http://stats.nba.com/players/tracking-post-ups/?sort=POST_TOUCH_PASSES_PCT&dir=1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular Season&PlayerPosition=C

I'm not sure he a good passer either. But he does make some nice passes. And then some brain-fart passes that make you wonder if he smokes before games. I'll say this: He's a willing passer who makes some nice passes and will continue to improve in that area. But he also telegraphs his passes far too often and turns them into tempting appetizers for any half-wit defender.

 

[ParniValjak]

Here is a bottom line for me. In an era where teams are going smaller, any big man that wants to succeed needs to be able to have the following characteristics:

- Great rebounder
- Protect the paint
- Have a very good motor

I think WCS has shown that he is not able to do any of those characteristics at a good enough level. Has he improved since his rookie year? Yes he has but he has improved in all the WRONG areas that he needed to improve in. His priority should have been the 3 areas mentioned and then once you have those under control, expand your repertoire to what he is going now. As a result, he is in no man's land at the moment.

Kosta provides more of everything that is required than WCS. In fact if we were serious about winning at all costs regardless of player development, then Kosta would be starting and playing majority of the minutes at C.

 

[The_Jamal]

Here is a bottom line for me. In an era where teams are going smaller, any big man that wants to succeed needs to be able to have the following characteristics:

- Great rebounder
- Protect the paint
- Have a very good motor

I think WCS has shown that he is not able to do any of those characteristics at a good enough level. Has he improved since his rookie year? Yes he has but he has improved in all the WRONG areas that he needed to improve in. His priority should have been the 3 areas mentioned and then once you have those under control, expand your repertoire to what he is going now. As a result, he is in no man's land at the moment.

Kosta provides more of everything that is required than WCS. In fact if we were serious about winning at all costs regardless of player development, then Kosta would be starting and playing majority of the minutes at C.

It's a case of mistaken identity. His rookie year, he showed us an upside of being a DeAndre Jordan/Tyson Chandler who could possibly hit the 15-foot jumper and defend out to the perimeter. He instead has tried to become Kristaps/Towns/Embiid on offense while his defensive improvement has stayed stagnant or even regressed.

 

[VF21]

Man I had high hopes for wcs. He was billed as a potential game changing defender who could lock down all 5 positions. I figured if he did that and put up like 10 and 10 then we had struck gold. The last thing I expected was that his offense would come along faster than his defense and rebounding. At this point I don't see him as anything more than an end of the bench big which is a shame considering what he couldve been.

I was right there with you until the final sentence. I think "end of the bench big" is a bit harsh. Has he proven himself? No, but that doesn't mean he won't. the kid has talent. He can block shots, flying out of nowhere on occasion to do so. He can rebound, although he seems to defer to others in that regard too often for my liking. He can steal, and he steals from guards... There is so much potential there that I wish someone could tap into. I still have hope but I won't be surprised if he ends up elsewhere. The WCS we see most nights isn't the WCS I (or obviously you and many others) thought we were getting.

 

[VF21]

If he says “with the 1st pick Sacramento Kings select” it better start with Luka and end in Doncic

If I hear Adam Silver say "with the first pick of the 2018 NBA draft the Sacramento Kings select..." I can pretty much guarantee I won't hear the rest.

 

[ParniValjak]

If I hear Adam Silver say "with the first pick of the 2018 NBA draft the Sacramento Kings select..." I can pretty much guarantee I won't hear the rest.

I'd be pretty happy with the top 3 to be honest! Any of Ayton, Doncic or Bagley would be great for the team. I have to believe in basketball gods and Adam Silver rewarding teams who are going out there to win (yes in this case I believe in conspiracy theories )

 

[Section 101]

I'd be pretty happy with the top 3 to be honest! Any of Ayton, Doncic or Bagley would be great for the team. I have to believe in basketball gods and Adam Silver rewarding teams who are going out there to win (yes in this case I believe in conspiracy theories )

If keeping all but one of Giles, Skal, KK, WCS and a rookie big then WCS is the odd man out.

 

[mac]

Yes, my point being, how many 7 foot centers get to the guy on the 3 point line to block or alter a game winning 3 point attempt?

Answer: Not many.

But here's the thing. Is that more important, or is a guy who consistently rebounds and deters shots at the rim more important? No one denies his unique mobility and ability, but I question whether that is truly something worth paying significantly for.

 

[kingsboi]

Willie isn't even good at contesting 3 point shooters. Someone posted a chart a while back that had Willie among the bottom of the barrel when it came to contesting 3's.

Yeah Willie can do some things that not very many other big men can do but those things are only required a very small percentage of the time. Meanwhile the things he needs to be doing all game like protecting the rim and rebounding are nearly non existent.

so if he rarely protects the rim, rebounds and contests 3's....why have him here for the long term? For his high post passing?

 

[burekijogurt]

If keeping all but one of Giles, Skal, KK, WCS and a rookie big then WCS is the odd man out.

The way things are looking we are going to end up drafting Mo Bamba if we go for best player available. So it would be Bamba, Skal, Giles, WCS, KK... someone would get moved...

 

[ParniValjak]

The way things are looking we are going to end up drafting Mo Bamba if we go for best player available. So it would be Bamba, Skal, Giles, WCS, KK... someone would get moved...

I think KK will opt out even though I would love to bring him back.

I think the odd one out might just be WCS simply because he is someone that will need to be paid soon and I cannot see how Bamba and WCS can play together.

 

[jcassio]

Bruno, Bruno, Bruno!
OK, so I've been defending WCS for almost 3 years, saying we should give him 3 years to develop into the player that he's capable of becoming. Then we'll know if he's our future center or not. Recently I've shifted to thinking that he's not the answer for us. He still has some game, and some prospects. But we need better. So if Willie wants to change my mind, he'd better start today by putting together a string of games where he averages 20 and 10, plus 3 blocks. Cause what he's been bringing is good enough for a back-up role on a playoff team.

 

[Tetsujin]

Bruno, Bruno, Bruno!
OK, so I've been defending WCS for almost 3 years, saying we should give him 3 years to develop into the player that he's capable of becoming. Then we'll know if he's our future center or not. Recently I've shifted to thinking that he's not the answer for us. He still has some game, and some prospects. But we need better. So if Willie wants to change my mind, he'd better start today by putting together a string of games where he averages 20 and 10, plus 3 blocks. Cause what he's been bringing is good enough for a back-up role on a playoff team.

There are only (by my count) six players who've averaged that per game over a season since blocks became an official stat (including this caveat because Bill Russell would probably also wind up in this category if blocks were a thing in his day).

 

[jcassio]

There are only (by my count) six players who've averaged that per game over a season since blocks became an official stat (including this caveat because Bill Russell would probably also wind up in this category if blocks were a thing in his day).

I’m not looking for unrealistic averages from Willie. I’m saying that I’m now ready to say he’s not our starting center. So to change my mind, I need a few games where he plays over his head.

 

[Gliesian]

There are only (by my count) six players who've averaged that per game over a season since blocks became an official stat (including this caveat because Bill Russell would probably also wind up in this category if blocks were a thing in his day).

True but a quality shot blocker could do it in two consecutive games. I'd like to see him become a rebounding machine... more like 14/13/2