Will Cousins ever figure it out?... [EDIT] I think we're seeing it!

[King Baller]

I love the Big Fella, I really do. His demeanor has escalated and it is affecting the Refs calls.

My suggestion is that he tries the Rondo method:

sto·i·cism
ˈstōəˌsizəm/
noun

1.
the endurance of pain or hardship without a display of feelings and without complaint.

Big Cuz's energy is being used against him. He needs to use the energy playing the game and quit expending it talking to the Refs.

 

[KingMilz]

I love the Big Fella, I really do. His demeanor has escalated and it is affecting the Refs calls.

My suggestion is that he tries the Rondo method:

sto·i·cism
ˈstōəˌsizəm/
noun

1.
the endurance of pain or hardship without a display of feelings and without complaint.

Big Cuz's energy is being used against him. He needs to use the energy playing the game and quit expending it talking to the Refs.

You mention energy im not sure him or Rudy have the physical or mental energy to play consistantly well for a full season. Both have average at best motors regardless what style we play and obviously playing high pace is not helping.

 

[Padrino]

kings fans just love to look in all the wrong places for problems that otherwise should be as clear as day. trade demarcus? rebuild [again]? geezus, people, the entire point of a "rebuild" is to acquire a player like demarcus cousins. but it's what you do after you acquire a franchise-level superstar talent that ends up mattering most. who here has the gall to claim that this organization has had a unified and focused plan for success across the last half-decade? anybody? anybody at all? or hasn't it just been one stumble after another for the biggest clusterf*** in the entire nba?

part of me wishes that demarcus would stop being so loyal to a franchise as poorly run as this one. part of me desperately wants to see him get out of here and play for a franchise that has a vision and is committed to winning. perhaps kings fans need such a wake up call. perhaps kings fans need to recognize the absolute gift they received when boogie fell to this team at 5 in 2010, and recognize that the failures of this franchise (and any franchise) begin at the top. likewise, leadership of this franchise (and any franchise) begins at the top. the maloofs. vivek ranadive. pete d'alessandro. george karl. the problems presented by each have been glaringly obvious. how much more does demarcus cousins need to accomplish before kings fans wake up and recognize that basketball is a team sport?

big cuz needs to lead the team in scoring. he needs to lead the team in rebounding. he needs to anchor the team's defense. he needs to have a world class motor within a system that asks him to sprint 6'11", 270 lbs up and down a court all game long. oh, and he needs to represent the kings' undisputed veteran on-court leadership. instead of asking cousins to shoulder more responsibility than any other superstar anywhere across the league, perhaps the rest of the franchise's moving parts could, ya know, shoulder some of that responsibility themselves. doesn't anybody here understand the concept of delegation? why ask cousins to do it all? what good can possibly come from that?

mike malone understood why it was necessary for him to set a tone of leadership for his team before he was fired. why can't george karl do the same? is he too old/tired? then maybe he's not the right coach for this team. is ben mclemore ever going to look like a consistent nba-level starter? is darren collison going to return to form? is marco bellinelli ever going to hit an outside? is rudy gay going to continue backsliding into his much-maligned toronto level of play? is anybody within the halls of management going to demand a greater commitment to defense from coach karl and from the team? is karl going to be forever ambivalent to that side of the ball, or are the flashes of defensive competence we've seen only rarely this season going to become more commonplace? it should be noted that not one of these questions can be answered satisfactorily by saying "if only demarcus cousins..." not one.

demarcus needs to work on demarcus. he's taken personal responsibility for his poor play of late, and hopefully we'll see an adjustment. but he cannot correct every issue that plagues this franchise, and one would be quite the fool for believing that there is a more talented player out there just waiting to come to sacramento who could. as always, it must start at the top. and as always, things won't improve until this team commits to playing even average defense. any good defensive team relies on a mandate from above; they rely on a unified vision within their organization that demands defensive effort with the understanding that such effort will help lead to winning basketball. does vivek ranadive value defense? does he care? does vlade? does karl? do any of the team's assistant coaches? i'm waiting to see some evidence that any of the kings' brass intend to do something about a defense that has completely bottomed out this season. but hey, let's all hop on grant napear's bullhorn and blame demarcus cousins, because that's clearly what the problem is...

 

[King Cool]

why ask cousins to do it all?

... because in this same post you referred to him as a...

franchise-level superstar talent

 

[CuzistanKing]

kings fans just love to look in all the wrong places for problems that otherwise should be as clear as day. trade demarcus? rebuild [again]? geezus, people, the entire point of a "rebuild" is to acquire a player like demarcus cousins. but it's what you do after you acquire a franchise-level superstar talent that ends up mattering most. who here has the gall to claim that this organization has had a unified and focused plan for success across the last half-decade? anybody? anybody at all? or hasn't it just been one stumble after another for the biggest clusterf*** in the entire nba?

part of me wishes that demarcus would stop being so loyal to a franchise as poorly run as this one. part of me desperately wants to see him get out of here and play for a franchise that has a vision and is committed to winning. perhaps kings fans need such a wake up call. perhaps kings fans need to recognize the absolute gift they received when boogie fell to this team at 5 in 2010, and recognize that the failures of this franchise (and any franchise) begin at the top. likewise, leadership of this franchise (and any franchise) begins at the top. the maloofs. vivek ranadive. pete d'alessandro. george karl. the problems presented by each have been glaringly obvious. how much more does demarcus cousins need to accomplish before kings fans wake up and recognize that basketball is a team sport?

big cuz needs to lead the team in scoring. he needs to lead the team in rebounding. he needs to anchor the team's defense. he needs to have a world class motor within a system that asks him to sprint 6'11", 270 lbs up and down a court all game long. oh, and he needs to represent the kings' undisputed veteran on-court leadership. instead of asking cousins to shoulder more responsibility than any other superstar anywhere across the league, perhaps the rest of the franchise's moving parts could, ya know, shoulder some of that responsibility themselves. doesn't anybody here understand the concept of delegation? why ask cousins to do it all? what good can possibly come from that?

mike malone understood why it was necessary for him to set a tone of leadership for his team before he was fired. why can't george karl do the same? is he too old/tired? then maybe he's not the right coach for this team. is ben mclemore ever going to look like a consistent nba-level starter? is darren collison going to return to form? is marco bellinelli ever going to hit an outside? is rudy gay going to continue backsliding into his much-maligned toronto level of play? is anybody within the halls of management going to demand a greater commitment to defense from coach karl and from the team? is karl going to be forever ambivalent to that side of the ball, or are the flashes of defensive competence we've seen only rarely this season going to become more commonplace? it should be noted that not one of these questions can be answered satisfactorily by saying "if only demarcus cousins..." not one.

demarcus needs to work on demarcus. he's taken personal responsibility for his poor play of late, and hopefully we'll see an adjustment. but he cannot correct every issue that plagues this franchise, and one would be quite the fool for believing that there is a more talented player out there just waiting to come to sacramento who could. as always, it must start at the top. and as always, things won't improve until this team commits to playing even average defense. any good defensive team relies on a mandate from above; they rely on a unified vision within their organization that demands defensive effort with the understanding that such effort will help lead to winning basketball. does vivek ranadive value defense? does he care? does vlade? does karl? do any of the team's assistant coaches? i'm waiting to see some evidence that any of the kings' brass intend to do something about a defense that has completely bottomed out this season. but hey, let's all hop on grant napear's bullhorn and blame demarcus cousins, because that's clearly what the problem is...

Great post! It's amusing seeing trade proposals where we get back picks for DMC when your best-case scenario with a pick IS someone like DeMarcus. I'm also not sure where people see that we "built our system around" Big Cuz - if anything else, our current system completely marginalizes him and misuses his talents. Does DMC need to grow up? Absolutely. But how is he supposed to do that when he doesn't have anyone to hold him accountable and to steer his passion (my hope has always been Rondo, and to a lesser extent Vlade)? Our team looks rudderless from the coaching stuff down, and every player responds in their own way - mostly by coasting and forcing, with defense being the first and the most obvious victim.

My fear with DMC is that he currently feels more and more alone on an island, battered and abandoned. This is the time when fans and media should be banding around their leader instead of turning on him. But sure, he's the most visible culprit, so let's trade him for some spare parts who can run and gun better. All this talk about Cuz "not getting it" completely ignores what he has to overcome in order to shoulder this team. Mainly - his own organization actively working against him and putting him in a position to fail. These exact same players we're railing on have shown in the past that they're more than capable defenders and team players. Yet suddenly they turned into pumpkins and nobody is asking why. You cannot turn your 270 lbs center into a shooting guard and then demand that he continues to soldier through inevitable injuries and carry an ever-increasing load on both ends of the floor.

 

[Padrino]

... because in this same post you referred to him as a...

it's quite myopic and foolish to assume that a franchise-level superstar talent should have to do everything. that is absolutely not what such a distinction indicates, and you'll find no evidence to support such a belief anywhere around the league. cleveland is slipping in the eastern conference right now because they've revived an unfortunate identity in which lebron james is required to do it all for the cavaliers. russell westbrook had to do it all for oklahoma city last season in the absence of kevin durant, and the thunder couldn't make the playoffs as a result. anthony davis' pelicans have been garbage this season because davis--a franchise-level superstar talent that many hail as "the next big thing"--can't do it all by himself. then there's stephen curry's warriors, who are turning out to be one of the greatest teams of all time because they've surrounded their franchise-level superstar talent with a top-flight roster that effectively complements his strengths and competes on the defensive side of the ball every single game. a top-10 player needn't succeed on the strength of his ability to be everything to his team. in fact, most top-10 talents succeed precisely because they're surrounded by players that help provide an easier path to that success...

 

[Padrino]

My fear with DMC is that he currently feels more and more alone on an island, battered and abandoned. This is the time when fans and media should be banding around their leader instead of turning on him. But sure, he's the most visible culprit, so let's trade him for some spare parts who can run and gun better. All this talk about Cuz "not getting it" completely ignores what he has to overcome in order to shoulder this team. Mainly - his own organization actively working against him and putting him in a position to fail. These exact same players we're railing on have shown in the past that they're more than capable defenders and team players. Yet suddenly they turned into pumpkins and nobody is asking why. You cannot turn your 270 lbs center into a shooting guard and then demand that he continues to soldier through inevitable injuries and carry an ever-increasing load on both ends of the floor.

well-stated.

 

[King Cool]

it's quite myopic and foolish to assume that a franchise-level superstar talent should have to do everything. that is absolutely not what such a distinction indicates, and you'll find no evidence to support such a belief anywhere around the league. cleveland is slipping in the eastern conference right now because they've revived an unfortunate identity in which lebron james is required to do it all for the cavaliers. russell westbrook had to do it all for oklahoma city last season in the absence of kevin durant, and the thunder couldn't make the playoffs as a result. anthony davis' pelicans have been garbage this season because davis--a franchise-level superstar talent that many hail as "the next big thing"--can't do it all by himself. then there's stephen curry's warriors, who are turning out to be one of the greatest teams of all time because they've surrounded their franchise-level superstar talent with a top-flight roster that effectively complements his strengths and competes on the defensive side of the ball every single game. a top-10 player needn't succeed on the strength of his ability to be everything to his team. in fact, most top-10 talents succeed precisely because they're surrounded by players that help provide an easier path to that success...

It's much more foolish to compare him to Lebron, Westbrook, Davis, or Curry at this point.

 

[Padrino]

It's much more foolish to compare him to Lebron, Westbrook, Davis, or Curry at this point.

excellent work there avoiding my argument entirely. beyond your failure to address my point, you also fail to grasp anything resembling the "big picture." lebron, westbrook, and curry have never had to deal with anywhere near the level of dysfunction that this franchise has forced demarcus cousins to endure since he was drafted. and to seriously claim that demarcus doesn't deserve to be compared to anthony davis betrays a startling lack of basketball acumen on your part. davis' 5-15 pelicans--who might actually be worse defensively than the kings--are hardly setting the nba on fire this season despite the excellence of their superstar. what excuse would you grant davis that you won't grant demarcus, particularly given the fact that davis hasn't had to fight upstream against the kind of chaos that has surrounded the kings for the last half-decade? these "grass is always greener" attitudes that some of you hold onto for dear life are embarrassingly divorced from nba reality...

 

[King Cool]

excellent work there avoiding my argument entirely. beyond your failure to address my point, you also fail to grasp anything resembling the "big picture." lebron, westbrook, and curry have never had to deal with anywhere near the level of dysfunction that this franchise has forced demarcus cousins to endure since he was drafted. and to seriously claim that demarcus doesn't deserve to be compared to anthony davis betrays a startling lack of basketball acumen on your part. davis' 5-15 pelicans--who might actually be worse defensively than the kings--are hardly setting the nba on fire this season despite the excellence of their superstar. what excuse would you grant davis that you won't grant demarcus, particularly given the fact that davis hasn't had to fight upstream against the kind of chaos that has surrounded the kings for the last half-decade? these "grass is always greener" attitudes that some of you hold onto for dear life are embarrassingly divorced from nba reality...

In an effort to keep this short, I'll just say that Davis made the playoffs with Tyreke as his #2, and gave the Warriors a scare, until Tyreke tried to play hero and refused to give the ball back to the scorching hot Ryan Anderson.

 

[rhythmless]

Great post! It's amusing seeing trade proposals where we get back picks for DMC when your best-case scenario with a pick IS someone like DeMarcus.

I think it's pretty obvious that everyone wants DMC talent without the DMC drama on the court. You can whine and look like you've never committed a foul without hurting the team (Duncan). DMC stops running back so he can jaw at the ref. He makes the team wait for him to jog back to get into their set. He creates a stupid foul the very next play he thinks he's been victimized.

People complain because as someone so talented you are held to a higher regard. When the problem isn't talent, but just not being a dickhead, people complain. Just run back. Go get the next one. You're the biggest, most talented guy on the court. You lost the ball. Or he slapped your hand and the ref didn't see it. Fine. Run the hell back and show em that it's not gonna happen again. Don't hang back and mug at the ref for 5 seconds and then go commit a reach in foul. That's not asserting your dominance. That's showing weakness.

Again, I don't want to trade him. We'd get nothing back. But be the leader you said you were gonna be. That's all. I don't care about what happens after that. Play the right way. Not even for the fans. Certainly not for Vivek. But at least for your teammates.

 

[CuzistanKing]

I think it's pretty obvious that everyone wants DMC talent without the DMC drama on the court. You can whine and look like you've never committed a foul without hurting the team (Duncan). DMC stops running back so he can jaw at the ref. He makes the team wait for him to jog back to get into their set. He creates a stupid foul the very next play he thinks he's been victimized.

People complain because as someone so talented you are held to a higher regard. When the problem isn't talent, but just not being a dickhead, people complain. Just run back. Go get the next one. You're the biggest, most talented guy on the court. You lost the ball. Or he slapped your hand and the ref didn't see it. Fine. Run the hell back and show em that it's not gonna happen again. Don't hang back and mug at the ref for 5 seconds and then go commit a reach in foul. That's not asserting your dominance. That's showing weakness.

Again, I don't want to trade him. We'd get nothing back. But be the leader you said you were gonna be. That's all. I don't care about what happens after that. Play the right way. Not even for the fans. Certainly not for Vivek. But at least for your teammates.

Listen, you'll get no argument from me in that department. I slapped my forehead more times than I can count when we had to defend 4-on-5 because of DMC (and I'm probably as close to a Cuz homer as one gets on this board). My point is that it's a symptom of a problem, not THE problem. A symptom that too many choose to focus on, instead of digging deeper. A symptom of dysfunction that (in my humble opinion) lies squarely in the lap of our coaching staff, and to a lesser degree our front office. Cuz is hot-headed and easily frustrated. He's also a unique talent. He'll go through walls for someone who has his back. He'll tune out everyone else. So what did this franchise do? They fired the coach that was a 100% match for Cuz and hired a coach that is a complete opposite of what Cuz needs (personality wise). A coach that, by all accounts, is mailing it in so far this season.

This is not to say George Karl is the root of all that is wrong with the Kings. This is not to say that Cuz is justified in quitting on plays. What I'm saying is that it's impossible to be a model employee when your immediate supervisor seems hell-bent on undermining and diminishing you, and when the entire organization has a stench of apathy throughout it. It's easy to say "they are professionals - they need to play like it", but there's not a team in the NBA that will succeed in the environment that we have right now. I certainly hope the players are holding themselves accountable in the film sessions, but to use this season as some sort of indicator of individual players' leadership skills (the original topic of this thread) is pretty silly, in my opinion.

 

[Bricklayer]

In an effort to keep this short, I'll just say that Davis made the playoffs with Tyreke as his #2, and gave the Warriors a scare, until Tyreke tried to play hero and refused to give the ball back to the scorching hot Ryan Anderson.

Gave the Warriors a scare = as in they almost won a game?

 

[Bricklayer]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-b...been-playing-like--bleep---man-191732769.html

 

[The_Jamal]

I think it's pretty obvious that everyone wants DMC talent without the DMC drama on the court. You can whine and look like you've never committed a foul without hurting the team (Duncan). DMC stops running back so he can jaw at the ref. He makes the team wait for him to jog back to get into their set. He creates a stupid foul the very next play he thinks he's been victimized.

People complain because as someone so talented you are held to a higher regard. When the problem isn't talent, but just not being a dickhead, people complain. Just run back. Go get the next one. You're the biggest, most talented guy on the court. You lost the ball. Or he slapped your hand and the ref didn't see it. Fine. Run the hell back and show em that it's not gonna happen again. Don't hang back and mug at the ref for 5 seconds and then go commit a reach in foul. That's not asserting your dominance. That's showing weakness.

Again, I don't want to trade him. We'd get nothing back. But be the leader you said you were gonna be. That's all. I don't care about what happens after that. Play the right way. Not even for the fans. Certainly not for Vivek. But at least for your teammates.

Yep and yep. What's preventing Cousins from being a superstar is himself. He still gets in his own way and doesn't know how to be a top 10 talent when things are going wrong on the floor. We all saw what happens when he's 100% locked in and focused... the 3rd quarter of the BK game. While we obviously can't expect 23 point quarters, why shouldn't we expect that level of focus and energy from him on both ends? LeBron does/did it. Russ does it. Steph does it. If he wants to be considered in that company, he needs to learn how to as well.

 

[Dime Dropper]

... because in this same post you referred to him as a...

What's your point?

Name one superstar that has won on his own, or with a team/coach on the level of this or any previous Kings team? You can't.

Your point is a piece of steaming dog crap based off emotion and no rational thought.

 

[King Cool]

Gave the Warriors a scare = as in they almost won a game?

good point... I guess I should have kept it even shorter.

 

[Kingster]

I just don't understand this talk about Cousins' injuries being the result of the fast paced offense that Karl runs. He doesn't race up and down the court. He's not on the track team. He paces himself. If anything the case could be made that going into the post and banging against the big guys on a regular basis is the type of play MUCH more conducive to injuries. The so called fast paced offense excuse just doesn't track, especially when he's taking many more 3 point shots. What's the injury that is going to be cause by that? - wrist strain? Injuries are going to occur, regardless of the type of offense that is run. Karl may or may not have blame for the poor performance of the team, but blaming Karl's offense for Cousins' injuries has about as much validity as blaming the weather.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Spot the guy that's never played.

 

[kupman]

I have been wondering, how many players in the HOF did not play on a winning team in any of their first 6 seasons? Would DMC be the first?

Or similarly, who are the best players to be on a losing team in each of their first 6 years?

All finger pointing aside, this a question I have and I have not been able to find an answer with a quick google search.

 

[Amit149]

Great post! It's amusing seeing trade proposals where we get back picks for DMC when your best-case scenario with a pick IS someone like DeMarcus. I'm also not sure where people see that we "built our system around" Big Cuz - if anything else, our current system completely marginalizes him and misuses his talents. Does DMC need to grow up? Absolutely. But how is he supposed to do that when he doesn't have anyone to hold him accountable and to steer his passion (my hope has always been Rondo, and to a lesser extent Vlade)? Our team looks rudderless from the coaching stuff down, and every player responds in their own way - mostly by coasting and forcing, with defense being the first and the most obvious victim.

I find it tough thinking about trading DMC precisely because of that, his talent level is truly amazing- and last year he proved he can be the anchor of a defense which means he is a much easier talent to build around now... but here's the thing- the way you look at it is pretty one-sided.

While I agree that Cousins is probably your best case scenario in most drafts- there's value in getting a new guy on a new rookie contract which you can pretty much lock for the next 9 years.
While Cousins is just 25 his clock is certainly ticking as it relates to us... I'm not in the business of pointing blame, but where things stands now the team assembled has trouble winning and this year will most likely end with another season in the lottery.
This team has no assets with trade value and a significant amount of our cap space would go to keeping Rondo (and that's the good scenario in which we actually keep him) this summer limiting our ability to upgrade this roster... sure it can be improved, but we are reaching a point where this team just doesn't work, and even if Cousins is not the problem (and I don't think he is) we are running out of time and options to build a winnner around him.

Do I think there's a good chance we will get back more talent in a Cousins trade? no, but there is value in resetting the clock and building something new- this time with a long term plan and identity in our minds (a good GM can do a lot with that, look how bright Boston's future looks right now) using the young talent we'll get and the one we already have.

In the summer a lot of people used the "all-in" metaphor about what Vlade did this summer- you can claim we owed it to DeMarcus and to ourselves to try and build one more time around this great talent.... but as of now the bet failed, and the more we wait the lower his value will get and the more time it will take until we will be competitive again... so I can see the argument for cutting our losses and move on to a new start.

Cousins is an amazing talent, and I'm sure one day he will lead a team that will be title-contenders and not just playoffs (or 30 wins) contenders... but I'm running out of hope that it will happen in Kings uniform.

 

[King Cool]

What's your point?

Name one superstar that has won on his own, or with a team/coach on the level of this or any previous Kings team? You can't.

Your point is a piece of steaming dog poopoo based off emotion and no rational thought.

You're right, no superstar has ever won without 4 other teammates on the floor with them. Not sure that furthers your argument though, but you could make some more silly accusations about mine.

For what it's worth, I'm a huge Cuz fan, just not an apologist.

 

[Padrino]

Yep and yep. What's preventing Cousins from being a superstar is himself. He still gets in his own way and doesn't know how to be a top 10 talent when things are going wrong on the floor. We all saw what happens when he's 100% locked in and focused... the 3rd quarter of the BK game. While we obviously can't expect 23 point quarters, why shouldn't we expect that level of focus and energy from him on both ends? LeBron does/did it. Russ does it. Steph does it. If he wants to be considered in that company, he needs to learn how to as well.

indeed. but you used the very word that underscores the problem that the kings have had with demarcus cousins since they drafted him: he needs to learn, but year after year, this franchise has failed to provide teachers on the sideline, veteran mentors on the court, or the continuity and the stability necessary for a volatile young star to develop fully. what's worse, they fired the only guy who cared enough about demarcus' development to make the effort to teach him. so... who's going to be that guy now? who is going to help motivate demarcus to give that superstar level of focus and energy on both ends?

is it going to be george karl, an aging and wearied head coach who may be too tired to give 100% effort himself, who hasn't shown much in the way of a desire to focus any of his energy on defense in the last decade, and who has also decided that he wants to turn one of the best bigs in the nba into a guard? we can talk in circles about what needs to happen in order for demarcus to be at his best, and in order for this team to win games, but it's all academic unless the kings invest in the infrastructure required to make it happen. signing the veteran rajon rondo was a good start, in my estimation. but this team has looked unprepared and undisciplined in most of their games this season, especially on the defensive end, and i find that a fault of leadership from the coaching staff. you're simply not going to get the best out of demarcus cousins if you encourage his worst behaviors with a frenetically-paced style of play...

 

[CuzistanKing]

I find it tough thinking about trading DMC precisely because of that, his talent level is truly amazing- and last year he proved he can be the anchor of a defense which means he is a much easier talent to build around now... but here's the thing- the way you look at it is pretty one-sided.

While I agree that Cousins is probably your best case scenario in most drafts- there's value in getting a new guy on a new rookie contract which you can pretty much lock for the next 9 years.
While Cousins is just 25 his clock is certainly ticking as it relates to us... I'm not in the business of pointing blame, but where things stands now the team assembled has trouble winning and this year will most likely end with another season in the lottery.
This team has no assets with trade value and a significant amount of our cap space would go to keeping Rondo (and that's the good scenario in which we actually keep him) this summer limiting our ability to upgrade this roster... sure it can be improved, but we are reaching a point where this team just doesn't work, and even if Cousins is not the problem (and I don't think he is) we are running out of time and options to build a winnner around him.

Do I think there's a good chance we will get back more talent in a Cousins trade? no, but there is value in resetting the clock and building something new- this time with a long term plan and identity in our minds (a good GM can do a lot with that, look how bright Boston's future looks right now) using the young talent we'll get and the one we already have.

In the summer a lot of people used the "all-in" metaphor about what Vlade did this summer- you can claim we owed it to DeMarcus and to ourselves to try and build one more time around this great talent.... but as of now the bet failed, and the more we wait the lower his value will get and the more time it will take until we will be competitive again... so I can see the argument for cutting our losses and move on to a new start.

Cousins is an amazing talent, and I'm sure one day he will lead a team that will be title-contenders and not just playoffs (or 30 wins) contenders... but I'm running out of hope that it will happen in Kings uniform.

You call my thinking one-sided, I call it realistic. Draft is objectively a crapshoot, with varying degrees of uncertainty. I'd rather take a sure thing than hope that I'd get a similar thing but younger or on a better contract. Trading DeMarcus now would be like rearranging chairs on a Titanic - sure, you got rid of a smaller problem, but the underlying factors are still there (an old and disinterested captain at the wheel). This franchise is historically bad at a) finding talent; and b) developing talent. So why in a world would you trade away a known superstar for a chance (or two) to draft one, if you're the Kings?

To your last point, if you're sure (as I am) that DMC will at some point lead a team to playoffs success, but it might not be the Kings, wouldn't that point to the Kings as being the problem and not DMC?

 

[New Era]

indeed. but you used the very word that underscores the problem that the kings have had with demarcus cousins since they drafted him: he needs to learn, but year after year, this franchise has failed to provide teachers on the sideline, veteran mentors on the court, or the continuity and the stability necessary for a volatile young star to develop fully. what's worse, they fired the only guy who cared enough about demarcus' development to make the effort to teach him. so... who's going to be that guy now? who is going to help motivate demarcus to give that superstar level of focus and energy on both ends?

is it going to be george karl, an aging and wearied head coach who may be too tired to give 100% effort himself, who hasn't shown much in the way of a desire to focus any of his energy on defense in the last decade, and who has also decided that he wants to turn one of the best bigs in the nba into a guard? we can talk in circles about what needs to happen in order for demarcus to be at his best, and in order for this team to win games, but it's all academic unless the kings invest in the infrastructure required to make it happen. signing the veteran rajon rondo was a good start, in my estimation. but this team has looked unprepared and undisciplined in most of their games this season, especially on the defensive end, and i find that a fault of leadership from the coaching staff. you're simply not going to get the best out of demarcus cousins if you encourage his worst behaviors with a frenetically-paced style of play...

Whhhhhaaaa. I'm tired of the excuses. We built a pretty decent team around him for this season and he himself just came out and took the blame on why they have been so bad. He's gone thru, what, 4 coaches now? He's had player's coaches and coaches who have challenged him and none of them worked out. The only dysfunction this year so far as been caused by HIM. Rondo was the guy we all thought could be a cancer and he has turned out great. Everybody else is playing below what you would expect (expect for maybe Omri). Why is that? I believe it's because they are tired of dealing with his attitude and demeanor. Nobody will be inspired playing with a guy like that.

 

[CuzistanKing]

I just don't understand this talk about Cousins' injuries being the result of the fast paced offense that Karl runs. He doesn't race up and down the court. He's not on the track team. He paces himself. If anything the case could be made that going into the post and banging against the big guys on a regular basis is the type of play MUCH more conducive to injuries. The so called fast paced offense excuse just doesn't track, especially when he's taking many more 3 point shots. What's the injury that is going to be cause by that? - wrist strain? Injuries are going to occur, regardless of the type of offense that is run. Karl may or may not have blame for the poor performance of the team, but blaming Karl's offense for Cousins' injuries has about as much validity as blaming the weather.

A couple of points on this. First, the actual games we watch are only the tip of the iceberg. There are practices, scrimmages, drills etc. that these athletes go through daily. All that puts a lot of strain on your body. If Karl has been working with a 16-second shot clock this entire season - that's a LOT of extra running suddenly dumped on Cuz even if we don't see it. Second, anyone watching the games currently should be able to tell that Cuz just does not look healthy physically. Whether it is something short-term (Mexico City effect) or not (lingering strain issues) - I'm not sure, but it's a clear as day fact that he's laboring out there. So, suddenly people start questioning his conditioning and work habits out of the blue? Finally, until the meningitis bout last year (which we can all agree is not indicative of anything) Cuz has never been injury-prone. Then you bring in a coach that preaches pace above everything else and suddenly Cuz is out for a majority of the time with strain injuries. I mean, when is a coincidence too much of a coincidence?

 

[Kingsroots]

Whhhhhaaaa. I'm tired of the excuses. We built a pretty decent team around him for this season and he himself just came out and took the blame on why they have been so bad. He's gone thru, what, 4 coaches now? He's had player's coaches and coaches who have challenged him and none of them worked out. The only dysfunction this year so far as been caused by HIM. Rondo was the guy we all thought could be a cancer and he has turned out great. Everybody else is playing below what you would expect (expect for maybe Omri). Why is that? I believe it's because they are tired of dealing with his attitude and demeanor. Nobody will be inspired playing with a guy like that.

And unfortunately we seem to be boxed in from all sides. We signed George Karl to a contract and want to at least make it seem like we have SOME stability, and not fire ANOTHER coach, (especially a hall of famer) but then oh wait, our best player ultimately doesn't see a future in it with someone he doesn't fully trust in charge of him. Here we are. Awesome basketball proceed.

 

[Amit149]

You call my thinking one-sided, I call it realistic. Draft is objectively a crapshoot, with varying degrees of uncertainty. I'd rather take a sure thing than hope that I'd get a similar thing but younger or on a better contract. Trading DeMarcus now would be like rearranging chairs on a Titanic - sure, you got rid of a smaller problem, but the underlying factors are still there (an old and disinterested captain at the wheel). This franchise is historically bad at a) finding talent; and b) developing talent. So why in a world would you trade away a known superstar for a chance (or two) to draft one, if you're the Kings?

To your last point, if you're sure (as I am) that DMC will at some point lead a team to playoffs success, but it might not be the Kings, wouldn't that point to the Kings as being the problem and not DMC?

To your last point, I think that the Kings organization has been the problem and not DMC (and I said that is my post) but we are nearing a point where it doesn't matter anymore.

If you want to be realistic- play out the next years going the same path... this year we will probably won't make the playoffs, next year it will be really hard for us to make a huge move to be a contender, and if we are not even in the conversation as contenders when Cousins has only 1 year left on his contract you'll be pretty much forced to trade him or else you risk him walking for nothing- and than his value will be much lower and it will take us much longer to rebound from the hit.

Calling the draft a crapshoot is popular around here, but the vast majority of stars comes through the draft and if you can get a deal netting you a high pick in a good draft along with some more proven young talent you'll have to consider that in my mind.

Trading him to me means starting a new page, it means also trading Gay and Rondo and building something from the ground up, not by tanking- but like what Boston did, Karl is a minor detail in this environment since we won't be hell-bent on getting to the playoffs right away and the stakes will be much lower.
I don't care about this franchise being historically bad at finding and developing talents... those are not curses we are destined to have forever, but things you can change, and since it seems Vlade holds a lot of popularity here and he is the man in charge the past doesn't really matter.

You trade a known superstar for a chance to get a new one because we as a team failed to build around him and it's getting to the point where it seems we won't be able to do that before our window will close... is that Cousins fault? no, but that doesn't change anything.
We've had Cousins for 6 seasons now, and we've sadly waisted them- so maybe it's time to try again. it's a painful move (one I hesitated to mention), but at this juncture I think it will only hurt more the longer you drag it.

 

[Dime Dropper]

You're right, no superstar has ever won without 4 other teammates on the floor with them. Not sure that furthers your argument though, but you could make some more silly accusations about mine.

For what it's worth, I'm a huge Cuz fan, just not an apologist.

You're a pedant then as well as being clueless. Congrats.

 

[rainmaker]

Some Kings fans help perpetuate our cycle of sucktitude. In this latest example, wait until our best player is battling thru injury to decide he's the problem. And I hate to pull the "you haven't played the game" card but if you can't see the difference in having a 6'11" 250lb+ center attacking repeatedly from the 3pt line compared to playing mostly off the block would and could have on injures, then you likely haven't played. What you're asking Cuz to do is attack like and move his body as a guard, which he obviously isn't. There's strong evidence that playing on the perimeter under Cuz has impacted injuries.

Played 306 of 327 games pre-Karl.

Then missed 19 of his next 48 under Karl and is battling injuries out there currently.

Could it be a coincidence? I guess, if you're the type who believes in coincidence.

If anyone would like to show where a player with Cuz's body has been asked to camp out and attack from the perimeter to this extent, I'd love to see it. But by and large that doesn't happen as that body type isn't suited for it, and the history of the game shows just that. So what happens when you repeatedly ask a body to do something it's not suited for? Injuries become more common. Then you should also be asking, why the hell is Karl even using him as a floor spreader while any inside element to our system has disappeared.

I'd personally rename this thread to "will this franchise EVER learn to utilize one of, if not the best young big in the game".