Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey! There's no need to bring your anti-pedant bias into this.
Will Cousins ever figure it out?... [EDIT] I think we're seeing it!
- Thread starter Merdiesel
- Start date
CuzistanKing
G-League
I guess I just don't understand the confidence that, having wasted Cuz by your admission, we won't waste the next super-star even if we are lucky enough to end up with one? And if we are capable of changing the culture/organization enough not to waste a super-star then why not stick with the one we already have? This only makes sense if and when Cuz openly quits on this team and demands to be moved. So far he's done just the opposite.
right on cue ... an odd insult to drop though,
ped·ant
noun: a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning.
since by using a word that most of us, including myself, would have to look up, seems to be describing yourself. If that was your intent, then I applaud you for your cleverness and humility, but that would be assuming a lot.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
how about the blind confidence in GETTING another superstar.
Because people don't realize just how remarkable DeMarcus Cousins is, they vastly underestimate how rare a thing it is to land him in a pipsqueak market like Sacramento. In 30 years he's easily the best player the Kings have ever drafted. The only other two HOFs the franchise has had were spaced out about a decade from each other, and the first one was traded to get the second. So yes, the only "logical" thing to do is to dump the superstar you finally have that you have blown it with, and go sit around waiting for some random lucky event that might or might not happen in the next 10 years unless the NBA finally jsut says enough of this nonsense and contracts the franchise first.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
We all have our own definitions of what being a "superstar" is. Mine includes leadership
CuzistanKing
G-League
100% correct, but if people were able to see that, we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place. What's amusing is that even the ones who DO acknowledge that there are systemic problems with the Kings that go way beyond DeMarcus, would rather explore trade options before addressing said systemic problems. Talk about setting yourself back another couple of decades...
kupman
Starter
The systematic issues have been addressed actually. We have a new owner, we have had new GMs, many new assistant and head coaches, complete overhaul of the roster. Maybe the new structure around DMC isn't any good either, but the system has certainly been addressed/changed.
fansinceday1
Starter
It might be time to go the route the Oakland Raiders went. They scrapped EVERYTHING. FO. coaches. players. Everything.
I love D Cousins but Im starting to think it's time to blow the entire thing up. All of it. Obviously what we've had and have isn't working.
I love D Cousins but Im starting to think it's time to blow the entire thing up. All of it. Obviously what we've had and have isn't working.
CuzistanKing
G-League
I guess we can argue about me using "addressing" instead of "fixing" in the original post, because while we've had a lot of "new" we rarely had anything "better" as far as individual pieces go. I'd argue we definitely have better front office and supporting players than we did a year ago, but at the expense of a competent coach and any sort of locker room stability. So yeah, unless you think Sacramento Kings is a fundamentally sound franchise currently, I very much think the systemic issues are still there.
Padrino
All-Star
fans across the nba are so easily sold on the idea of "rebuilding," because what you're selling isn't a team of 15. what you're selling is hopes and dreams and rainbows and unicorns. it's a glorified movie trailer, and there's a good chance that, when it's time for the promise of that trailer to deliver, the movie is going to suck. i've said it before and i'll say it again: it's a fool who believes that you can't build a winning team around a dominant center who puts up 25/10 and can help anchor a defense, regardless of the hiccups in his attitude, and regardless of all the pomp and circumstance about the "evolution of the game." the problem isn't demarcus cousins. the problem is that the kings have been absolutely terrible at building around him...
i mean, they blew four straight lottery picks prior to drafting willie cauley-stein, they've committed the sin of hiring a head coach before hiring a GM not once but TWICE, they've fired the one head coach that was managing to coax results out of a roster that wasn't terribly talented, there's been exactly zero synergy between the various iterations of the front office and the coaching staff, and even less synergy between the most recent iterations of the coaching staff and the player personnel, and some kings fans want to claim that the problem hasn't been with the way this team has been owned and operated in the last half-decade? during that span, i'd say that the sacramento kings have written the book on how not to succeed in building a winning team. there's a reason that the national media laughs at us, and it ain't because of demarcus. hell, national media outlets are salivating at the prospect of cousins being traded to a more marketable franchise...
brick, if you have the time, you should compose one of those extremely thorough posts that you specialize in, something to the effect of "how we got here," that details step-by-step how this franchised has sabotaged its own efforts to build around demarcus cousins, from the maloofs' attempt to sell the team and onward. sometimes i believe that this fanbase is in dire need of some perspective...
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
Okay....so he is the best player the Kings have drafted in 30 years. So what? You know as well as we all do that players more often than not just do not pan out here like we hope and expect them to and when they leave this team is when we see what could of been. Cousins will most likely be one of those instances unless he can't get out of his own way for the foreseeable future.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
Being a superstar and having leadership does not go hand in hand.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
The Raiders are not the best example to use here. Like the Kings, they have been irrelevant for nearly a decade as well. That's tough to do in the NFL because you see stories every year of a team no one expects to make a playoff push or become relevant again.
MOD NOTE: Okay, enough from both of you. This stops now. If you want to continue to impress each other with your witty repartee then take it to private messages. Thanks.
Um, I'm not sure how to break this to you but we already did that.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
We don't all know that at all.
Normally we draft crap players who do a whole lot of diddly once they leave town. The very best of them might continue doing what they were in Sacramento.
How are the careers of Jimmer, Trob and Nik turning out?
How many scoring titles did KMart win once he left this place? Where is Jason Thompson on the Warriors bench? Spencer Hawes in Charlotte? Cisco I think is out of the league now. Douby definitely.
Aside from the Whiteside aberration, which every team in the league missed on for years while he bounced around the world, its really been since the good ole days nearly 15 years ago with Gerald Wallace, and to a lesser degree Hedo, that we drafted guys, then sent them off to better careers. Right now teams are being smarter about how they use Reke and IT -- and that's the true lesson, how other franchises USE personnel -- but neither guy is putting up numbers beyond what they put up here. Just being fitted in better. Not ****ed with as much. This franchise eternally makes everything harder than it has to be.
And the point stands -- there is absolutely NO evidence in the entire history of the Sacramento franchise that you are going to dump a player of Cousins' magnitude and go skipping down the road and pick up something better, or even equivalent. When you're a fat dumpy guy and you and your supermodel girlfriend start having problems, you are an idiot to dump her assuming you'll just pick up another. You love the one you're with, and you fight to make it work. Anything else normally turns out to be cowardice or stupidity.
Padrino
All-Star
seeing this kinda crap from kings fans just kills me. cousins hasn't "panned out" like we wanted him to? at 25/10, completely unstoppable on his best nights, and with an improved ability to protect the rim, he hasn't "panned out"?!! i'd hate to see how you'd describe ben mclemore's development!! cousins has absolutely lived up to his end of the bargain. he entered the league as a question mark, and he has transformed himself into a top-10 player and legitimate superstar-level talent despite the utter dysfunction that this franchise has forced him to endure. his attitude has improved considerably in that span, though it still needs further refining, and he should definitely be more efficient within the kings' offense, but it's worth noting that he would likely be more efficient if george karl was treating him like the best center in the nba, rather than the biggest guard in the nba...
To be fair, Kev has at least made a very good living in the NBA and put up some pretty respectable numbers.
But, I digress. I just don't like to see him dumped in with some of the others.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
He has had a solid career, but the point stands he put up his best numbers here in Sacto, and has bounced around since. Whitesdie, which was freaky, and Wallace, remain the only two real examples in the past 15 years of our draftees running off to do dramatically better elsewhere.
Henkel
Starter
Does any team have less to show from a decade of lottery picks then us? Terrible drafting and terrible management of the assets we did manage to get is the number one reason we could never get this rebuild off the ground even with Cousins. Heck we took a role player at six this year and people were celebrating because at least we know he won't out of the league by the end of his rookie contract.
Henkel
Starter
The Raiders completely changed philosophies after Al's passing and it's paying off. They went out and got the number two head office guy from a established winning organization in Green Bay and let him have total control with little to no input from ownership. Instead of the Al Davis/Vivek style of chasing your own tail trying to win now they realized that wasn't feasible with the roster they had and rebooted. And what do you know they've had the three best drafts of the last 10 year consecutively and will go into the off season with the most cap space in the league. The Kings did the opposite this off season, hiring the local hero that no other team in league would dream of hiring and doubled down on winning now. The Kings have a superstar that the Raiders didn't, so it's not the best parallel, but these teams have diverged in their approach. Good thing about sports is we won't have to wait very long to see how things work out for both sides.
Showtime
Starter
Nobody is underestimating DMC as a player. Even the very best players this league has ever seen have been moved because circumstanced merited such a decision. People here just differ on what merits a move with DMC.
Peter_Gibbons
Starter
All Cousins really need to do is get himself back in the low block and punish people physically like before. He is getting most of his shots from the perimeter and it doesn't take a genius to know why his shooting percentage and efficiency have all gone down.
A lot of Cousins' points used to come from offensive rebounds and just muscling people. Post them up big fella, forget about Karl's run and gun at this point. Is he going to complain and force you guys to stop if you guys start willing? Get back in the paint and get some easy shots and all of a sudden Cousins will "get it" again.
A lot of Cousins' points used to come from offensive rebounds and just muscling people. Post them up big fella, forget about Karl's run and gun at this point. Is he going to complain and force you guys to stop if you guys start willing? Get back in the paint and get some easy shots and all of a sudden Cousins will "get it" again.
John Galt
Starter
Where were you when I needed you back in 1993?
Ok, can any of the folks that are saying that there is a good deal what Kings can get for Demarcus, put those ideas forward?
It is easy to make demands of the abstract form, "we should trade him", "nobody is untouchable", "for the right price we can pacakage him"... while at the same time cannot come up with any imaginable scenario what would make Kings better and be realistic.
It is easy to make demands of the abstract form, "we should trade him", "nobody is untouchable", "for the right price we can pacakage him"... while at the same time cannot come up with any imaginable scenario what would make Kings better and be realistic.
While I agree with most of your posts and your reasoning, it seems to me that you are living in the past regarding Kings organization.
In multiple recent posts you are referring to franchise and management in terms that were fitting a year ago.... but I do not see how that is relevant for the past 9 months period since Vlade was hired.
Since Vlade was hired, there was no peep from Vivek. Unless you think that Vlade is not doing his job properly, the only thing left is Karl.
I would argue that firing Karl before Kings are officially out of playoff race (after the All star at least) would be act of the previous incompetent management and worse solution than keeping him.
What was incompetent move that was done in the past 9 months by Kings organization?
rhythmless
Starter
But the supermodel girlfriend also has to want to make it work and value you. You can't roll over and let her have her way just because she's hot and you're deathly afraid of losing her. She won't respect you and keep pushing to see what else she can get away with. You can't tuck your tail in and say she's right after she publicly humiliates you on TV. You may keep her in title for a little while longer by being a little punching bag, but she's already long gone.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
She's done nothing of the sort to you. has actually gone out of her way repeatedly to say she wants to be with you despite your patheticness.
enigma99a
Bench
OK, so we've got DMC and yes he's an amazing player and nobody questions that. But we've replaced everyone else and he is the only common denominator. Also, our opposing teams don't have Cousins and they whip the Kings every night. But I'll trust Vlade. If he wants to keep him and keep building around him, that's fine. If not, that's fine too
But it doesn't really matter from a realistic point of view if you agree with the premise, if you agree that the chances of our team to have significant success this year and next year are small (I'm talking about reaching the playoffs and possibly the 2nd round) and you agree that the chances a superstar will sign for a team he wasn't been able to win with are very low than your options are either to roll with it till the bitter end (which is probably not a good idea) or make the most ouf of this crappy situation while it's possible.
I'm not sure we won't waste the next group of players, but I think we deserve that chance- because I see very little value in continuing in the same route knowing that the most probable outcome is us trading Cousins a year from now for much less.
For your last question (why not stick with the superstar you have?), I think a lot of you are stuck in the blame part... "it's the organization fault and not his", "you don't dump your supermodel girlfriend"...and I agree- but what the point in that?
We can't execute the same plan, because we don't have the time or assets to do that... again, this year we will probably won't make the playoffs which leave us with one season before he'll have only 1 year on his contract left and his value will drop- the alternative gives you much more time, cap sace and delay the schedule making it possible to start something different.
You said that this only make sense if Cuz quits on this team and you are partly right, the way I see it- even if he doesn't demand a trade, I can't see him resigning here- I have no precedent for someone of his level resigning for a team that sucked this bad.
I don't have blind confidence in getting another superstar... that doesn't mean I think that we can't get to a better situation, you don't need a player of Cousins level to win 30 games or make the playoffs and that's the point.
We had a great player, HOF talent and couldn't make it work for 6 years... since you are talking about history- how many HOF players or all-nba talents stayed with that type of teams???
And you don't have to wait till another one like him coes your way, that's the 76ers way... if you can get a combination of a top prospect and a capable player still on his rookie contract that can be a decent basis to build your team around if you trust your GM.
I reallly want to hear how do you honestly think the remaining of his contract will play out? maybe I'm to pessimistic but I don't see a happy ending...
