Will Cousins ever figure it out?... [EDIT] I think we're seeing it!

[bajaden]

In my opinion, the issue is not that Cousins doesn't deserve some blame. The issue is that there is a virtual verbal "war" being fought over what the value of "some" is.

No argument from me. Point well taken..

 

[King Baller]

The reason why I created this thread and sort of unleashed on Cuz was the fact that it's no secret Jared Sullinger has owned his ass every time they've faced each other. If I believe that I'm the best big man in the game, I'm circling this one at the start of the season and showing him what's up. But that didn't happen. He got worked again. Just so happened the icing on the cake was having IT torch us as well. Same guy DMC ran out of town. One of our only successful draft picks in years traded away for nothing because Cousins didn't like playing with him.

I think you are over reacting to the last few games. Cousins is injured and still playing. I'm sure the achilles is still sore along with the back. His conditioning has been affected by the layoffs. He certainly was not the only player who looked gassed in Mexico. Yet Cuz is the one you single out.

 

[VF21]

Unfortunately in Cousins case, he came with a reputation. And if you do the research, which I did before we ever drafted him, quite a bit of that reputation was undeserved. I won't go into the details again, but none the less, he came with a reputation. Having Westphal as a coach was probably the worse case scenario for Cuz. Westphal came with a reputation as well, of not getting along with some of his star players, particularly those that might disagree with his coaching, like Payton. What I'm trying to say, is that it wasn't the best atmosphere for his development. If anything, it was worse.

Be that as it may, at this point, it doesn't matter how we got to where we are, it only matters where we are, and what we do about it. I'm by no means advocating that we trade Cousins, but I'am suggesting that we better have a sense of urgency about righting the ship, or Cousins will leave of his own volition. The worse case scenario is that he leaves, and we get nothing in return, but an address to send his last check to. Now that's a bit extreme, but these things can sneak up on you, if take for granted that his loyalty will keep him around indefinitely.

I don't think we're really that far apart in our feelings. (I also did some research on DMC, and agree that a lot of his "reputation" was undeserved.)

Did you read all of my post? I honesty believe Rondo could well be the answer to the Cousins problem. Unless, of course, we do what a few have said and trade him (Rondo) away because we're not going to make the playoffs this year.

 

[VF21]

I think you are over reacting to the last few games. Cousins is injured and still playing. I'm sure the achilles is still sore along with the back. His conditioning has been affected by the layoffs. He certainly was not the only player who looked gassed in Mexico. Yet Cuz is the one you single out.

The blow to what Jerry called the "lower solar plexus" didn't help either.

 

[VF21]

For those arguing there is still gas in the tank and more needs to be done under this management group with DMC to compete, I ask yet again: how many more lottery seasons is enough for you? How many years of attempts is enough before a total rebuild is merited? I have yet to hear this answered.

That's because there is no real answer. And I think you know that. It's a rhetorical question, pure and simple. And it should be. Fans need to be very careful what they wish for at this juncture.

 

[bajaden]

I don't think we're really that far apart in our feelings. (I also did some research on DMC, and agree that a lot of his "reputation" was undeserved.)

Did you read all of my post? I honesty believe Rondo could well be the answer to the Cousins problem. Unless, of course, we do what a few have said and trade him (Rondo) away because we're not going to make the playoffs this year.

Yeah, I read the entire post. Since I tend to be long winded, I decided to respond to the reputation part. But I do agree that Rondo seems to be a good influence on Cuz. I don't expect any overnight turnarounds, but I would like to see signs of progress.

 

[Showtime]

That's because there is no real answer. And I think you know that. It's a rhetorical question, pure and simple. And it should be. Fans need to be very careful what they wish for at this juncture.

I think what I'm trying to get at with all of this is that we finally have a decent coach, we finally have a roster that isn't a dumpster fire, and the team decides to play a style contrary to its strengths. It takes all that is an advantage and throws it out the window. That is what is disheartening to me, and has made me give up hope that this team will ever progress with the current lineup. It doesn't matter who we have on the roster if they are completely mismanaged and misused. It doesn't matter who we draft if we cannot develop and keep talent.

 

[Merdiesel]

You know this how? What I remember is that the Suns offered him a nice contract the Kings did not match. In hindsight I think matching and then trading him would have been a better move. But Cousins is responsible? I don't recall that. I'm beginning to think DMC might be blamed for global warming next

By witnessing it every time IT would call on DMC for a pick...

I know IT would have him reset picks like crazy so maybe his frustrations were justified but its not news that they did not get a long all that well on the court.

 

[Merdiesel]

I think you are over reacting to the last few games. Cousins is injured and still playing. I'm sure the achilles is still sore along with the back. His conditioning has been affected by the layoffs. He certainly was not the only player who looked gassed in Mexico. Yet Cuz is the one you single out.

You are probably right.
Rudy, Ben, DC and the rest of the underachievers get enough in the game threads. I guess.

Hell, I don't even know anymore.
All I do know is I just want this ****ing team to start ****ing playing like one! From all the way up to Vivek right back down to the end of the bench. These guys have ****ing sucked and have failed miserably so far. I don't know what the solution is, all I know is I'm not sure my brain can't handle teams dropping 120 on us on a nightly basis like this.

 

[VF21]

By witnessing it every time IT would call on DMC for a pick...

I know IT would have him reset picks like crazy so maybe his frustrations were justified but its not news that they did not get a long all that well on the court.

That observation is a far cry from your original assertion.

 

[Sac.1989]

Um, re-read that sentence. He's been extremely volatile and frustrated when losing. His attitude sucks when he's losing, and it impacts everybody when he's like that. So...when the team loses...he's not going to be happy. Everything has indicated he wants to win, so if the Kings prove they cannot build a team that wins, WHY WOULD HE WANT TO STAY? Everything that actually happens in reality says that DMC will not wait forever to win in Sacramento.



That's the point: we have the most talent we've had in years, a HOF coach who barely misses the postseason and STILL CANNOT WIN GAMES. That's the entire point. At what point do we rebuild? Please answer this: How many more seasons of sub-30 win teams do you personally feel we should endure before rebuilding?



It takes two to tango, and he bares some responsibility in his inability to stay composed and been tinder in the flames of Sacramento's dumpster fire of a franchise these past few seasons. Is he to blame entirely for the instability? No, of course not. But we aren't talking about Alex Smith here. DMC has had plenty of his own issues he's dealt with during his time here.

- he is frustrated when losing but thats itself has not transpired into losses. We can harp on about his mentality etc but at the end of the day he has not directly cost us games more so then our inadequate coach.

- a past HOF coach who has clearly lost a step. Karl is done. He will not be with the kings for much longer surely. It was a failed hire from the begining something i flagged from the very start. There is no way you entertain the notion of moving demarcus without actually addressing our issue which is how this team is coached - We do have a talented roster. Its not Demarcus holding us back. Its Karl. A mix of Vlade, Peja and Doug could coach this team better.

- Demarcus needs to take ownership of himself but how about we as a franchised actually do what we need to and put him in a position to win. Demarcus is not holding us back. We are handicaping ourselves through inadequate management and decisions stemming from the top

- I will not sign off on trading the most talented big man to come through the draft in the 21st Centuary without us actually putting our best foot forward as a franchise, we need a new coach, this roster is built for success and we need someone to coach it > that will lead to wins and not subpar seasons.

- you do not trade Demarcus until he checks out (and even then with the time left on his contract you dont need to be strong armed into doing anything - talent like demarcus will not walk through our doors again - not in our lifetimes), he hasnt checked out yet. To alot of people thats inconcievable - how has he not checked out, with the way we run the show here ? if its one thing we have going for us, its that he's still here, determined to changed the culture and win, and we need to make the most of it.

 

[Andriod_KiNg]

Never will, he is quick to blame others but tonight is another example of him being massively overrated.

Missed an easy oop to extend our lead then proceeds to brick two FTs.

 

[DeMoN]

Cousin's needs to get in better shape during the offseason, that's all i have to say.

 

[rainmaker]

Never will, he is quick to blame others but tonight is another example of him being massively overrated.

You thinking him being massively overrated is simply an opinion, a wrong one but you're more than welcome to it.

I would however like some evidence of Cuz even once coming out and blaming others.

 

[206Fan]

Never will, he is quick to blame others but tonight is another example of him being massively overrated.

Missed an easy oop to extend our lead then proceeds to brick two FTs.

Cousins has never been an above the rim player..this makes it even harder to build around him.

 

[swisshh]

Wait you made this thread over Jared Sullinger? GTFO

 

[Hoovtrain]

Just looking over some history with Mitch Richmond.

91 29-53
92 25-57
93 28-44
94 39-43
95 39-43
96 34-48
97 27-55

One playoff run in 7 years, traded at the age of 32.

Funny I don't recall anyone wanting to trade him to rebuild, or complaining that he never got us 40 wins or anything like that.

But having a 25 year old guy around and people are so quick to throw in the towel.

The OP didn't say anything about trading Cuz...he is actually against it.

 

[Bricklayer]

Never will, he is quick to blame others but tonight is another example of him being massively overrated.

Missed an easy oop to extend our lead then proceeds to brick two FTs.

Indeed. One game is an example of him being massively overrated. Well thought out.

 

[kingsboi]

Cousin's needs to get in better shape during the offseason, that's all i have to say.

For some reason, Cousins never finds himself in a weight room. I know he is strong as it is naturally but that's not an excuse to do some weight training. His conditioning needs work, no doubt.

 

[Section 101]

For some reason, Cousins never finds himself in a weight room. I know he is strong as it is naturally but that's not an excuse to do some weight training. His conditioning needs work, no doubt.

really? Is that why grant said Cuz and Rondo came in the weight room as he was leaving on the Mexico broadcast.

 

[rainmaker]

For some reason, Cousins never finds himself in a weight room. I know he is strong as it is naturally but that's not an excuse to do some weight training. His conditioning needs work, no doubt.

Huh? He busts his ass working on his body.

Per his trainer-

Williams: A typical day is treadmill and elliptical for 40 minutes, then hit the weights -- upper and lower -- for 40 or 45 minutes. Then we do basketball stuff in the post for an hour, take lunch, then take it easy. Then we go to boxing, which is something we did going into the 2010 draft in which he was taken fifth overall. He kind of enjoys it. We normally do boxing for about 30 minutes, a really tough workout. It works out a lot of muscles that guys don't normally work out playing basketball.

He'll throw punches on the mitts for three minutes, hit the heavy bag for three minutes. Jump on the treadmill, run for three minutes. It's on and off and the exercise will change, from abdominal work to treadmill, then heavy balls against the wall and then treadmill, or weight lifting for three minutes, then treadmill. That's probably the hardest workout with the boxing.

At the end of the day, we shoot. A big part for him is that face-up shot or that pick-and-roll...We normally shoot for an hour, then play full court at Maryland. A lot of pros would be up there, or Georgetown.

I also know he does swimming, cycling, sprint work and yoga. Exactly how else do you think he transformed his body?

 

[Bricklayer]

For some reason, Cousins never finds himself in a weight room. I know he is strong as it is naturally but that's not an excuse to do some weight training. His conditioning needs work, no doubt.

Cousins condition was JUST FINE BEFORE MEXICO.

People have remarkably short memories when it serves them to. He was playing big minutes, up over 40 on some nights, for a wacky hyper-paced system which few centers his size have ever been asked to rumble up and down in.

 

[macadocious]

Cousins is flat out hurt right now. Just beat the **** up. It shows. Many of you are being idiots.

 

[mac]

Lost in this Webber talk, apparently, is that he was listed a coaching problem and a malcontent until we traded for him. Then when here, under Rick, with a quality roster, good ownership at that time(yes the Maloofs were good during our golden era) and with a GM who had his best run of his career, Webber's entire reputation and success changed.

So, do you want to be the team who takes advantage of a talent like that heading into his prime or do you want to be another version of Wash, 98-06? Us being far closer to Wash than what we were in our golden era is the problem. A poorly run and managed organization like Wash fails to capitalize on a talent like Webber and mistakenly thinks moving him will solve the problem when the problems start before Webber even hit the court and comes for above.

Sometimes it does take a trade or some sort of journey for things to click for a player though, whether at the scrub level or for stars to take their game to the next level. One thing about Cousins (this is more in relation to your later post on his training) is that I've never heard of him having an excellent work ethic. Of course, just because we don't hear about it doesn't mean Cousins isn't working hard. I'm just thinking about the great players in the league and how they mostly have reputations of being the hardest workers (Allen Iverson aside). Somehow that's never really been said of Cousins, whether from his team mates or other players in the league. I could be simply missing such reports of course.

 

[VF21]

Sometimes it does take a trade or some sort of journey for things to click for a player though, whether at the scrub level or for stars to take their game to the next level. One thing about Cousins (this is more in relation to your later post on his training) is that I've never heard of him having an excellent work ethic. Of course, just because we don't hear about it doesn't mean Cousins isn't working hard. I'm just thinking about the great players in the league and how they mostly have reputations of being the hardest workers (Allen Iverson aside). Somehow that's never really been said of Cousins, whether from his team mates or other players in the league. I could be simply missing such reports of course.

Seriously? Would you care to share what your definition of "excellent work ethic" is and where you think Cousins might be failing? What's next? Suggesting he might not feed his dogs? Or maybe he's rude to his neighbors?

 

[mac]

Seriously? Would you care to share what your definition of "excellent work ethic" is and where you think Cousins might be failing? What's next? Suggesting he might not feed his dogs? Or maybe he's rude to his neighbors?

?? Isnt it quite self explanatory? Obviously I'm talking about basketball. Way to jump the gun. That's what I can't stand about this board. Suggest anything bad about Cousins and people start making all sorts of ridiculous hyperbole.

Im talking about having a reputation for being the hardest workers in practice, being first in and last out of the gym. Studying the game, working on getting better. This is something Cousins himself alluded to (of other superstars in the league) when he first got a chance with team USA. He noted that one thing he really learnt was how hard those guys work. Posters here say Cousins is a top 5 player or something in the league right? The top players typically are known for their work ethic, and AFAIK (already admitted that it's very dependent on media and I don't live and breathe Kings media anyhow) Cousins may not have that sort of reputation. That sort of work ethic also very affects leadership and how hard the team plays. And you know what? Very talented players can still get by, but that may separate them from the true HOFers.

But no, of course what I'm actually saying is he is a cancerous headcase thug because any criticism or questioning of Cousins must necessarily mean that right? This is a thread about whether Cousins will ever get it. I don't see how my comment is out of place or unwarranted.

 

[ockingsfan]

Cousins is flat out hurt right now. Just beat the **** up. It shows. Many of you are being idiots.

Very true.Grant and Jerry even mentioned on broadcast that DMC looks hurt.

I think his back is still bothering him and he I trying to play through it. That Mexico trip sure didn't help any.

Hopefully the 4 day break after the knicks game next week will help.

 

[KingMilz]

Tonight is a perfect example why you can't win with Cousins and Gay both have just terrible basketball iq niether has any concept what a quality shot is and just make stupid plays deflating to the team. Niether is capable of carrying a team and both highly selfish.

 

[VF21]

?? Isnt it quite self explanatory? Obviously I'm talking about basketball. Way to jump the gun. That's what I can't stand about this board. Suggest anything bad about Cousins and people start making all sorts of ridiculous hyperbole.

Im talking about having a reputation for being the hardest workers in practice, being first in and last out. Studying the game, working on getting better. This is something Cousins himself alluded to (of other superstars in the league) when he first got a chance with team USA. He noted that one thing he really learnt was how hard those guys work. Posters here say Cousins is a top 5 player or something in the league right? The top players typically are known for their work ethic, and AFAIK (already admitted that it's very dependent on media and I don't live and breathe Kings media anyhow) Cousins may not have that sort of reputation.

But no, of course what I'm actually saying is he is a cancerous headcase thug because any criticism or questioning of Cousins must necessarily mean that right?

What you did was bring up his work ethic and suggest that since you hadn't heard anything positive there just might be something negative. That's not fair...and you doing the CYA by saying there might be good reports and you just hadn't heard them is a cop out.

I used hyperbole to point out that IMHO you were really reaching for something that had never been mentioned. There's enough ammunition out there for criticism of Cousins and a lot of it is fair, although I think somewhat exaggerated. He can be temperamental, he's obviously still got a lot of maturing to do, and there are times when he is his own worst enemy. He needs to quit showing his emotions on his face and he needs to learn to take a deep breath and walk away sometimes instead of always feeling like he has to defend himself.

But you know what? You're not going to change your opinion of DMC based on anything I say here. And that's fine. You're as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine, even if I do think you're totally wrong.

Have a good day.

 

[King Baller]

Cousins condition was JUST FINE BEFORE MEXICO.

People have remarkably short memories when it serves them to. He was playing big minutes, up over 40 on some nights, for a wacky hyper-paced system which few centers his size have ever been asked to rumble up and down in.

The injuries are accumulating....sore achilles, strained back, knee to the nards and then there is the general pounding and hacking the Refs are starting to over look. And it is not just Cousins. In Mexico Stevens had his guys bumping Rondo on every play. Most of the bumping is not getting called. It started when old man Miller decked WCS and has now become a regular part of each opposing teams game plan. Pound on the Kings until Cousins gets pissed off.

It would help if Cousins could borrow some of Rondo's stoicism.

The only solution is to win.