Yes. I'm sure the Pelicans will just let him go. This is a great plan. Guaranteed to work.
Who Should We Sign? (2023 Off-Season)
- Thread starter twslam07
- Start date
Yes. I'm sure the Pelicans will just let him go. This is a great plan. Guaranteed to work.
Stan.Helsing
G-League
Hahaha! It's a long shot but stranger things have happened before.
Stan.Helsing
G-League
Why can't the Kings trade the 2023 1st before the upcoming February 9th trade deadline? I'm not following that.
That would be great! A change of scenery might be really good for him.
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Stepien Rule. We have already (potentially, if not in the lottery) committed our 2024 pick in the Huerter trade, and the Stepien Rule does not allow us to make a trade that could potentially leave us with no first round pick in two consecutive future drafts. Our 2023 is off limits until we pick somebody with it.
Stan.Helsing
G-League
Aww shucks, I'd forgotten about that. Thanks!
Would it be possible to give the Bulls the flip-side of the 2024 pick instead? P.Will for Holmes + 2024 pick (i.e., if it is in the lottery).
I can't see this Kings team missing out on the playoffs in 2023-24, so it should be a non-lottery pick. Yet it will still be a risky thing to do because anything can happen, primarily injuries.
twslam07
All-Star
No because if it doesn’t convey to ATL in 2024, it becomes a Top 12 protected 2025 1st to ATL which leads to the possible outcome of us trading both our 2024 1st (CHI) and our 2025 1st (ATL) which is not allowed via the Stepien rule.
You’d have to wait until draft day to trade our 2023 1st (since at that point it will be viewed as a player and not a 1st). As for this trade deadline, the earliest 1st we can offer in a trade is our 2028 1st (because of the Huerter trade). We can still offer swap rights for earlier years as that technically wouldn’t leave us without a 1st for 2 consecutive years.
EDIT: Here is the actual verbiage from the Huerter trade as it relates to our 1st;
First round pick protected top 14 in 2024, top 12 in 2025, top 10 in 2026, else 2026 second round pick, 2027 second round pick.
Since we could technically surrender our 2026 1st, we can’t trade our 2027 1st. Thus, the earliest first we can trade is our 2028 1st.
This was part of the criticism McNaif received for making the Huerter trade in that it really tied up our ability to trade future 1sts and make other trades. Hopefully we’re good enough in 2023 so the pick conveys in 2024 (allowing us the flexibility to trade our 1sts again).
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iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I’m curious if anyone who wanted Cam Johnson would consider taking a big risk and trading Barnes for him and Jae Crowder at the deadline?
Suns might be all in on a championship run this year and might not have plans on matching Cam’s offer sheet this off-season.
the kings would be taking a big risk letting go of Barnes in the midst of a playoff run but maybe they feel Jae can provide enough to justify the risk while setting themselves up for the future and being able to match any offers for Cam after the season.
If the Kings aren’t sure on re-signing Barnes or are unsure he would re-sign they would be at risk of losing him for nothing and or Cam signing an offer sheet elsewhere.
Suns might be all in on a championship run this year and might not have plans on matching Cam’s offer sheet this off-season.
the kings would be taking a big risk letting go of Barnes in the midst of a playoff run but maybe they feel Jae can provide enough to justify the risk while setting themselves up for the future and being able to match any offers for Cam after the season.
If the Kings aren’t sure on re-signing Barnes or are unsure he would re-sign they would be at risk of losing him for nothing and or Cam signing an offer sheet elsewhere.
twslam07
All-Star
I actually proposed this trade on realgm (https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2238184) but it was…
Harrison Barnes
Davion Mitchell
for
Jae Crowder
Cameron Payne
Cam Johnson
The votes tended to indicate that we were winning that trade by a lot (and this trade was even posted after Johnson’s injury).
I really like the idea of finding a long term Barnes replacement while also resigning Barnes for 3-4 more years. I think Barnes coming off the bench with Mitchell & Monk gives us one of the best benches in the league.
The problem we're ultimately running into as we get deeper into the season is that everyone in the top 7 (Starters+Davion-Monk) aren't expendable assets. Davion especially has picked it up the last 6 or 7 games and is starting to show that same form he closed last year with. But that's also where all the value in the team is currently tied up in as well. So it's a weird spot to be where Monte has an excellent top 7, but there's not much left to improve on the 8-11 spots.
Although we keep saying we need a back-up C, Metu honestly is staking a pretty dang good claim on the job. He's been excellent:
.154 WS/48
67.7% TS
0.8 BPM (Positive O and D BPM)
0.2 VORP
+2.1 NetRtg
I mean, what more do you want? Sure, a guy like Poeltl would be an awesome upgrade, but I don't think dumpster diving around the likes of like Noel-type centers and wasting money makes much sense. My lean would be to let Metu-Queta handle that job and spend our resources upgrading the back-up 3/4.
Although we keep saying we need a back-up C, Metu honestly is staking a pretty dang good claim on the job. He's been excellent:
.154 WS/48
67.7% TS
0.8 BPM (Positive O and D BPM)
0.2 VORP
+2.1 NetRtg
I mean, what more do you want? Sure, a guy like Poeltl would be an awesome upgrade, but I don't think dumpster diving around the likes of like Noel-type centers and wasting money makes much sense. My lean would be to let Metu-Queta handle that job and spend our resources upgrading the back-up 3/4.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
It’s hard to imagine a scenerio where we get value for a guy who doesn’t play. At this point our only hope is to move him as salary filler in a trade. Otherwise we would need to salary dump him but you only have second round picks to attach as assets. Not sure anyone bites.
It’s just not a great spot for the Kings or
Holmes. This really sucks for him, just wasting away his prime on the end of the bench. I get why it happened but it’s still a shame.
He's a career 35.4% 3-pt shooter shooting a point over that w/Washington. "Knockdown" is a bit strong. He's also missed 30 games per over his last three seasons (missing the previous one entirely) and is pretty immobile as this point. Sabonis would have to chase on the perimeter, which pulling by our main defensive board guy away from his strength (and the team's, given that they're top-2 in defensive board because of Domas. Honestly, I think he'd be a disaster defensively and maybe net-neutral offensively.
Very hard not to feel for him. Two years ago he was arguably the Kings' best playe. Then he gets poked in the eyes a million times, goes thru a personal crisis, and now, in the Kings' most promising season in forever, he's not even in the rotation. That's rough.
Metu's playing well, but, especially now that he's stopped trying to do much from 3 he and Richaun look like fairly similar bouncy, mobile, undersized lob-threat 5's - with Richaun offering better rim protection.
Stan.Helsing
G-League
Thanks! So then, guess I'm back on the "tap Herbert up" train. Tap, tap, tap! Choo-choo!
This is a tough one. I can't see the Suns agreeing to trade Cam + Crowder for Barnes... yet I don't think the Kings should trade Davion away either. His on-ball perimeter defense at the PG position will be very useful in the playoffs, especially if the Kings play against the Warriors.
Stan.Helsing
G-League
Wonder if the New York Knicks do this trade.
Richaun Holmes for Cam Reddish + Jericho Sims + Svi Mykhailuk
Reddish provides depth at SF, Sims replaces Holmes as the backup Center, Mykhailuk is there as filler but can provide some more shooting depth. Probably no reason for the Knicks to go for it without an incentive though, and I'm not sure if there are enough spots on the roster too. Anyway, the ESPN Trade Machine says it's feasible ($11,215,260 going out and $9,473,016 coming in).
PG: Fox.............. Davion
SG: Huerter........ Monk, Davis
SF: Barnes......... Reddish, Mykhailuk
PF: Murray......... Metu
C: Sabonis......... Sims, Len
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We need an athletic wingman at the 4 like a young barnes not Porzingis teams will kill us in the pick N roll
Wings, wings, wings. You see how some of these teams give us fits when they are loaded with wings? We need another 1 or 2. Bulls put Ayo, D Jones, Williams, Lavine and there was one other guy but all that length can be troubling.
First game we played the Clippers this year, they had nothing but wings on the floor and all were switchable. Makes it tough.
Heck, I think our boost in D of late has been in part the emergence of KZ and Keegan. Paired with Metu who has difficulty on PNR it does make them a quick unit with Davion and Monk.
First game we played the Clippers this year, they had nothing but wings on the floor and all were switchable. Makes it tough.
Heck, I think our boost in D of late has been in part the emergence of KZ and Keegan. Paired with Metu who has difficulty on PNR it does make them a quick unit with Davion and Monk.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Knicks gave up a first for Reddish so it doesn’t seem likely they would move him this quickly for a back up c. Hard to say what New York does considering expectations.
twslam07
All-Star
Now I find myself leaning towards Cam Johnson.
He has the best advanced impact stats among the young guys (both offense and defense) and I find myself asking what can make this team so special that it can one day be a top shelf team in the league? I don’t think our core pieces will ever lead to us being an elite defensive team and I don’t think we have top end, super star talent. I think it has to be our chemistry, unselfishness, deep bench, and lethal 3pt shooting that could make this team special.
It’s one thing to have a great spot up shooter who can knock down C&S 3s at a 40%+ clip. It’s another thing to have a player who can hit 3s off curls, pin downs, dribble handoffs, etc. I don’t think the everyday fan appreciates how much pressure that puts on the defense as it gives the defense less time to react and contest a high % 3PT opportunity.
We’ve seen that Huerter is more than capable of hitting these types of 3s and we have even seen flashes of Murray hitting these types of 3s. Adding Cam Johnson would give us 3 of these types of players around Fox and Sabonis. How many teams have 3 of these types of shooters in a starting lineup? None come to mind. That could make us special and unique.
Then you have to consider that Sabonis is an excellent screener which further unlocks there ability to get a good 3PT shot. If the defenses are overplaying the shooters, they have the IQ to make the back door cuts and we have a C who is great at making that type of pass.
Again, having 3 of these shooters would be an absolute headache for defenses to contain and that’s not even considering how they’d stop Fox and Sabonis with this type of spacing around them. If the defense can be average, this type of offense could make us a pretty tough team.
EDIT: Oh and you get the added benefit of stealing a valuable player from a division rival!
He has the best advanced impact stats among the young guys (both offense and defense) and I find myself asking what can make this team so special that it can one day be a top shelf team in the league? I don’t think our core pieces will ever lead to us being an elite defensive team and I don’t think we have top end, super star talent. I think it has to be our chemistry, unselfishness, deep bench, and lethal 3pt shooting that could make this team special.
It’s one thing to have a great spot up shooter who can knock down C&S 3s at a 40%+ clip. It’s another thing to have a player who can hit 3s off curls, pin downs, dribble handoffs, etc. I don’t think the everyday fan appreciates how much pressure that puts on the defense as it gives the defense less time to react and contest a high % 3PT opportunity.
We’ve seen that Huerter is more than capable of hitting these types of 3s and we have even seen flashes of Murray hitting these types of 3s. Adding Cam Johnson would give us 3 of these types of players around Fox and Sabonis. How many teams have 3 of these types of shooters in a starting lineup? None come to mind. That could make us special and unique.
Then you have to consider that Sabonis is an excellent screener which further unlocks there ability to get a good 3PT shot. If the defenses are overplaying the shooters, they have the IQ to make the back door cuts and we have a C who is great at making that type of pass.
Again, having 3 of these shooters would be an absolute headache for defenses to contain and that’s not even considering how they’d stop Fox and Sabonis with this type of spacing around them. If the defense can be average, this type of offense could make us a pretty tough team.
EDIT: Oh and you get the added benefit of stealing a valuable player from a division rival!
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I like Cam I just think the Suns will match any reasonable offer.
The more I think about it the more I think we end up with Barnes. Might have to upgrade depth instead of a big splash.
1) sign Barnes to 3 year deal
2) Decide on Queta. If no, look to upgrade
3) add depth at the wing via first round pick
4) consider Sasha for more shooting
5) offer extension to Monk at some point
The more I think about it the more I think we end up with Barnes. Might have to upgrade depth instead of a big splash.
1) sign Barnes to 3 year deal
2) Decide on Queta. If no, look to upgrade
3) add depth at the wing via first round pick
4) consider Sasha for more shooting
5) offer extension to Monk at some point
twslam07
All-Star
The goal should be to end up with Barnes AND someone like Johnson, Williams, or Washington.
A starting lineup of Fox-Huerter-Johnson-Murray-Sabonis would be really solid (and on the same timeline). Then you’d have one of the best benches in the league in Mitchell-Monk-Barnes-Okpala-Free agent C-2023 SAC 1st.
And the Suns have $120 mil tied up in 4 players next year. Would they be willing to match a $20-25 mil/yr deal? I don’t believe they’ve been huge spenders in the past but we’ll see.
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iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
it would be great but I just don’t see it happening. The Suns only have CP for 2 more years so im sure they want to set themselves up to be competitive long term.
I could maybe see the Celtics deciding Williams is too much of a role player to give big money to however. To me he is the most likely of the three.
the other thing to consider is if we put an offer in on any of the restricted free agents we run the risk of the respective team matching AND Barnes signing elsewhere. Could get tricky.
Stan.Helsing
G-League
Well, that's true, they did give up a first for Reddish. They're running out of time to make something of that trade though. He already requested a trade this past summer, and is reportedly asking for one again as he isn't getting more playing time under Thibbs.
There are also articles like these saying...
"Knicks discussing Immanuel Quickley, Evan Fournier, Derrick Rose, Cam Reddish in trades."
"Derrick Rose, Cam Reddish out of Knicks rotation."
"Knicks and Cam Reddish’s representatives working towards trade."
Perhaps, the Knicks will view Holmes as a more tradable asset who they can attach to Quickley, since some of the other guys they are looking to move (Fournier and Rose) are probably viewed as negative contracts by other teams.
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Jkbiker
Starter
Knicks want out of Fournier contract, Kings want out of Holmes contract
Throw in a 2023 2nd rd pick to Knicks (From Pacers)
We still have our own 2023 1st and 2nd
Holmes,Len,Davis,Lyles for Fournier,Cam Reddish,Sims,
Sign Sasha for shooting
PG: Fox,Davion, 2nd rd 2023 pick or Delly on min contract
SG: Huerter,Monk,Fournier
SF: Barnes,Reddish,2023 1st rd pick or Chima,Ellis
PF: Murray,Sasha,Okpala
C: Sabonis,Sims,Metu,Queta
Holmes and Len need to go
Davis vs Fournier as 3rd SG a push and Sasha better shooter than Lyles
We get to keep Barnes with Reddish as backup
Sims as backup C upgrade over Holmes
Use cap space for Metu
Have bird rights for reasonable contr for Barnes
Reddish gets a QO of 8 mil
Sasha gets 10 Mil Exception
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iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
How about Kevin Love this off-season? He is a free agent and a California native. He has settled into a great piece off the bench. Shoots 37 and above from 3, still rebounds well and is a great passer.
I am less confident we are going to be able to sign one of the restricted free agents (cam, PJ, Willams) and more confident that we will re-sign Barnes.
Monk, Davion, Love, Kris Murray
and Queta could be really great depth.
I am less confident we are going to be able to sign one of the restricted free agents (cam, PJ, Willams) and more confident that we will re-sign Barnes.
Monk, Davion, Love, Kris Murray
and Queta could be really great depth.
Jkbiker
Starter
The most likely to go in a trade is Reddish, but for now, the market isn’t hot. While Reddish started eight games this season and displayed the athleticism that has teased teams, the potential remains higher than the finished product, and the defense isn’t up to what the Knicks and Thibodeau demand. According to a source familiar with the talks, the Knicks are working with Reddish’s representatives to find a suitable team for him — but like last season, when the Hawks accommodated him, it’s not exactly a seller’s market. The Knicks surrendered a first-round pick for Reddish, but the current price appears to be a second-round pick or a player on a rookie contract with a different skill set.
– via Steve Popper @ Newsday
If Knicks are really willing to send Cam reddish for a 2nd rd pick, Kings should Send the 2nd rd pick from the Pacers for him. Its protected from 56 to 60 so it should convey.
We can cut Chima since he is not fully guaranteed until 1/15/23
Quick Monte - call before they change their mind
Would give us some Wing depth for our playoff push for cheap
If he works out great for us this season go ahead and make the QO of 8 mil next summer
– via Steve Popper @ Newsday
If Knicks are really willing to send Cam reddish for a 2nd rd pick, Kings should Send the 2nd rd pick from the Pacers for him. Its protected from 56 to 60 so it should convey.
We can cut Chima since he is not fully guaranteed until 1/15/23
Quick Monte - call before they change their mind
Would give us some Wing depth for our playoff push for cheap
If he works out great for us this season go ahead and make the QO of 8 mil next summer
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Stan.Helsing
G-League
DeAnthony Melton has been playing very well for the 76ers while Harden and Maxey were out. If the Kings want to move on from Davion, it could be worth trading for him. I feel like the 76ers would owe value to the Kings in this trade, so the Kings could use the opportunity to rope in another team and trade Richaun Holmes for something. For example, the Cavaliers look like they could need another Center.
Kings In: DeAnthony Melton, Saddiq Bey, Nerlens Noel
Kings Out: Davion Mitchell, Richaun Holmes
76ers In: Davion Mitchell, Dylan Windler
76ers Out: DeAnthony Melton, Thybulle or Korkmaz
Pistons In: Isaac Okoro, Thybulle or Korkmaz
Pistons Out: Saddiq Bey, Nerlens Noel
Cavaliers In: Richaun Holmes
Cavaliers Out: Isaac Okoro, Dylan Windler
The Pistons might be owed a little something in this example, but you get the picture.
I would also try real hard to trade for Jericho Sims from the Knicks (Len + 2nd round pick?). He's the 3rd Center in their rotation but could easily be the 2nd Center on the Kings. His athleticism and defensive abilities would be a real boost to this team. I also like that he doesn't seem the type to get injured easily.
PG: Fox...................... Melton
SG: Huerter................ Monk, Davis
SF: Bey...................... Barnes
PF: Murray.................. Metu
C: Sabonis.................. Noel, Sims
Kings In: DeAnthony Melton, Saddiq Bey, Nerlens Noel
Kings Out: Davion Mitchell, Richaun Holmes
76ers In: Davion Mitchell, Dylan Windler
76ers Out: DeAnthony Melton, Thybulle or Korkmaz
Pistons In: Isaac Okoro, Thybulle or Korkmaz
Pistons Out: Saddiq Bey, Nerlens Noel
Cavaliers In: Richaun Holmes
Cavaliers Out: Isaac Okoro, Dylan Windler
The Pistons might be owed a little something in this example, but you get the picture.
I would also try real hard to trade for Jericho Sims from the Knicks (Len + 2nd round pick?). He's the 3rd Center in their rotation but could easily be the 2nd Center on the Kings. His athleticism and defensive abilities would be a real boost to this team. I also like that he doesn't seem the type to get injured easily.
PG: Fox...................... Melton
SG: Huerter................ Monk, Davis
SF: Bey...................... Barnes
PF: Murray.................. Metu
C: Sabonis.................. Noel, Sims
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Grant Williams absolutely thrives in games like this. He's like a PJ Tucker type on defense, but actually can give you offensive production
