What's cookin' in Kings kitchen???

[CruzDude]

CruzDude wonders what's cookin' in Kings kitchen?

Beno and Bibbs. I wonder if Beno has the, ah, cahonies, and abilities to be a starting PG for Kings. If he has both, then this supports maybe getting max value for Bibbs now including a 1st rounder next year and a good scorer and/or backup PG.

But if Bibbs goes, then my view is RonRon has to stay for the long term, Kevin becomes the 20+ ppg and Salmons and Cisco become the BMOB (big men of bench). We need a RonRon big time as there is no one else in the league who can do what he can........unless (see below). if Coach can get him to do it night after night.

Then our starters could become Beno and Kevin, RonRon and Mikki and Brad with Salmons, Cisco, Jones and Hawes off the bench.

Miller may have a breakout year but can he do 2 in a row 'cause that's what it will take for Hawes to have a chance to get bigger minutes at the 5, if he ever can bulk up to run the 5 after Miller.

The other side of this trade coin is trading RonRon and keeping Bibbs. This puts Salmons at RonRon's spot and all else stays about the same. Salmons is one helleva player on both defense and offense. Can he replace RonRon? That is one helleva thought, eh? Salmons seems more coachable and less a bull-in-a-china shop.

But now a third thought: trading both Bibbs and RonRon. A starting lineup of: Beno and Kevin, Salmons and Mikki plus Brad with Cisco, Douby, Jones and Hawes off the bench. Holy the "breaks in the kelp again!" Sure hope it's 5 o'clock somewhere 'cause I need a drink.

The KT vs. JWill thing is old vet vs. over energetic kid thing. But the mystery of not giving JW more time is hard to understand. Amick's comment about Watkins vs. Williams was curious: Watkins had more upside but Williams fits with the current players. Hmmmmm........ I liked Watkins and his wham-bam defense and offense, neither of which Williams has.

 

[PurpleHaze]

I'll just focus on Beno Udrih for now. Obviously he IS the Kings starting PT and has been since he joined the team after opening 3 road defeats this season. The guy could have been a total flop, but far from it. What an utter disaster this season could easily have been to this point (meaning like the Wolves with only 4 wins) if Beno hadn't been picked up and proved right away he could answer the call. At 25 years of age he's significant years younger than Mike Bibby who seems pre-maturely aged - soon turning 30. Bibby is simply more expendable than ever if Petrie gets the right offer - hopefully including a suitable back-up for Beno and/or high draft pick to select potential star PG.

People forget that Steve Nash did nothing but ride the bench his first 4 years in the NBA. He only started towards stardom at age 26 and he'll be 33 in a month - although apparently aging nicely compared to Bibby. I guarantee Bibby is gone in a split-second along with his $14.5 mil due next season if the right deal comes around. I'll be very surprised (maybe shocked is better) if Bibby isn't gone soon - really, really soon.

 

[VF21]

Nice job, CruzDude. Maybe we can impose on you for more of these during the season?



I think Beno could easily be at least an interim starting PG should Bibby end up being traded. Of course, it would depend a lot on what we get in return but I'm sure liking what I'm seeing from him. He's much more defensively oriented (Thank you, Pops!) and seems to look for open teammates first, which I really like.

I do not agree that Artest has to stay, regardless of what eventually happens with Mike Bibby. My thought is that Artest is simply too dominant to include on a rebuilding team, and he actually can do more harm than good by his overwhelming ability to take over the game from the rest of the team.

Both Artest and Bibby are going to command a lot more money than I think we want to pay to keep either. And this is from someone who would LOVE to see Mike retire as a King. If we're going to go young and get this train back on the right track we cannot put all our eggs in a couple of baskets. (Yes, I know I totally murdered the metaphoric concept in that sentence... )

I think we keep Brad simply because a team needs some veteran presence. His contract is large enough where we'd have trouble getting value back and, if we move Artest and Bibby, I think keeping him becomes less problematic. And if gives Hawes time to grow into his role. The kid is young and I do not want to see him pushed beyond his abilities too soon. Careers have been ruined that way.

I don't see the mystery in Justin not getting a lot of minutes right now. First, he's not a superstar. Second, he's been reported to be among the less savvy of players. In addition, he's still trying to regain the respect he lost from being stupid. He's SLOWLY being reintegrated back into some kind of rotation. I think he - and we - have to be patient.

I wish I could remember how it felt the first time around when the first sparks of something special were appearing off in the distance. I have to wonder now if I'm trying too hard to see something that might not yet be there because I don't want to miss anything this time around.

Bottom line? One thing is certain. Reggie Theus has, at least IMHO, done what he was brought here to do and with problems I'm sure he didn't expect or couldn't foresee. Three starters out at one time? Whoa...

 

[kingsfan101]

I'll be very surprised (maybe shocked is better) if Bibby isn't gone soon - really, really soon.

Trading away a huge salary for a player not considered worth as much and coming off an injury is not going to be easy, particularly if we are (as we should be), unwilling to take back any long term contracts. If trading him away were so easy, it would have happened already.

A multi-team trade is still possible. However, given the complexities involved, the cautiousness shown by a lot of GMs, and the dreaded salary cap, I wouldn't be surprised at all, if Bibby were here past the trading deadline.

 

[Gary]

I was going to start a thread last night until my firefox crapped out, and I lost everything..

The Kings are 12-18.. What are we lacking?

What would make this team better?

Since this thread has a lot to do with what I wrote I woudl like to hear some opinions on what will make this team better, or what the team is lacking to be 12-18.

 

[piksi]

I'll just focus on Beno Udrih for now. Obviously he IS the Kings starting PT and has been since he joined the team after opening 3 road defeats this season. The guy could have been a total flop, but far from it. What an utter disaster this season could easily have been to this point (meaning like the Wolves with only 4 wins) if Beno hadn't been picked up and proved right away he could answer the call. At 25 years of age he's significant years younger than Mike Bibby who seems pre-maturely aged - soon turning 30. Bibby is simply more expendable than ever if Petrie gets the right offer - hopefully including a suitable back-up for Beno and/or high draft pick to select potential star PG.

People forget that Steve Nash did nothing but ride the bench his first 4 years in the NBA. He only started towards stardom at age 26 and he'll be 33 in a month - although apparently aging nicely compared to Bibby. I guarantee Bibby is gone in a split-second along with his $14.5 mil due next season if the right deal comes around. I'll be very surprised (maybe shocked is better) if Bibby isn't gone soon - really, really soon.

Wolves are having phenomenal season. We should be that lucky but we aren't that smart.

Everyone is expendable if the right offer is on the table. Everyone.

 

[VF21]

I was going to start a thread last night until my firefox crapped out, and I lost everything..

The Kings are 12-18.. What are we lacking?

What would make this team better?

Since this thread has a lot to do with what I wrote I woudl like to hear some opinions on what will make this team better, or what the team is lacking to be 12-18.

We're lacking a power forward. And, for most of the year, we've been lacking two starters. I think you have to address that situation before anything else.

When healthy, we're still lacking a legitimate power forward. Not a work in progress but a real, "Holy crap, it's Karl Malone"-type power forward. When you have a "soft" center, you really must have strength at the 4. While Mikki Moore is doing a fair job right now, I don't see him as our 4 going into the future.

What will make this team better, unfortunately, isn't a quick fix. We've been that route. What will make the Kings better is time...and expired contracts and replacement of players who just don't fit into the revised big picture.

 

[kennadog]

Everyone is expendable if the right offer is on the table. Everyone.

That's how I feel. I'm a bit sentimental about Bibby, like VF, because it would be nice to have one of "that team" actually retire as a King. But not sentimental enough to have his salary and time left possibly block or push into the distance a real future for this team.

It's be nice if we had a very good rebounding, shot-blocking PF. Really, though, I don't think there's much we can do right now to make this team better on the floor, in the sense of a contender. What will make this team better would be to have more/higher draft picks (in a good draft year) and salary relief sooner than later.

 

[hardware_failure]

That's how I feel. I'm a bit sentimental about Bibby, like VF, because it would be nice to have one of "that team" actually retire as a King. But not sentimental enough to have his salary and time left possibly block or push into the distance a real future for this team.

It's be nice if we had a very good rebounding, shot-blocking PF. Really, though, I don't think there's much we can do right now to make this team better on the floor, in the sense of a contender. What will make this team better would be to have more/higher draft picks (in a good draft year) and salary relief sooner than later.

I agree its going to take 1 or more stellar draft picks. It seems that every year (with the exception of the early 200x's) The Kings are never good enuff to go far in the playoffs, and never suck enuff to get any good draft picks. Also as mentioned above, even a good lottery roll or pick doesnt guarantee a good pickup. There has to be a good draft year AND you have to be lucky enuff for the obvious choices to live up to the hype. (example: Nash, Peja and Kobe being #15, 14, and 13 in '96)

 

[dude12]

What would make this team better?

Since this thread has a lot to do with what I wrote I woudl like to hear some opinions on what will make this team better, or what the team is lacking to be 12-18.

For sure an upgrade at PF would do wonders for the team. Everyone knows that. I may get crapped on here but Udrih, while doing a solid job, does not play good enough defense. I think the offense has been at times very good from him but I just would like to see us obtain a PG who can play tough defense AND run the club. Udrih is not capable of the defensive part. He could be a good starting PG on a winning team if the other players were good defensively....namely our bigs. The defense from out 2 and 3 spots has been solid but Mikki and Brad, although they work hard at it are not going to lock down guys. Our PG's are too soft on defense and our bigs can't make up for it. Really we need 2 of those spots to improve mightily on defense, otherwise its back to trying to outscore guys with offense and that will not work with this team.

 

[PurpleHaze]

For sure an upgrade at PF would do wonders for the team. Everyone knows that. I may get crapped on here but Udrih, while doing a solid job, does not play good enough defense. I think the offense has been at times very good from him but I just would like to see us obtain a PG who can play tough defense AND run the club. Udrih is not capable of the defensive part. He could be a good starting PG on a winning team if the other players were good defensively....namely our bigs. The defense from out 2 and 3 spots has been solid but Mikki and Brad, although they work hard at it are not going to lock down guys. Our PG's are too soft on defense and our bigs can't make up for it. Really we need 2 of those spots to improve mightily on defense, otherwise its back to trying to outscore guys with offense and that will not work with this team.

Beno plays relatively decent defense or at least he gets the team D concept. He'll never be a lock-down stopper ala Artest or more to the "point" Jason Kidd or Baron Davis. Team defense, help defense, is extremely important and more so since we seem to play zone almost as much as man-to-man.

As VF21 said, thanks to Pop we have a good work in progress with Beno who should continue to improve in his first year as an NBA starting PG. We've seen slow-footed Bibby on D and unfortunately that's a long lost cause.

 

[kingzzzfan4ever]

We're lacking a power forward. And, for most of the year, we've been lacking two starters. I think you have to address that situation before anything else.

Do you think the Kings should go after Emeka Okafor in the 2008 offseason to defensively strengthen the 4 spot? Does anybody think the Kings should go after Okafor?

 

[Bricklayer]

Do you think the Kings should go after Emeka Okafor in the 2008 offseason to defensively strengthen the 4 spot? Does anybody think the Kings should go after Okafor?

Well I can't imagine anybody thinking we shouldn't go after Okafor, unless it be because of concern over be the injuries. Problem is that going after somebody and getting them are two entirely different things. Charlotte isn't exactly going to give him away, and he indeed may be almost untouchable.

 

[dude12]

Beno plays relatively decent defense or at least he gets the team D concept. He'll never be a lock-down stopper ala Artest or more to the "point" Jason Kidd or Baron Davis. Team defense, help defense, is extremely important and more so since we seem to play zone almost as much as man-to-man.

As VF21 said, thanks to Pop we have a good work in progress with Beno who should continue to improve in his first year as an NBA starting PG. We've seen slow-footed Bibby on D and unfortunately that's a long lost cause.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that Beno is better than Bibby on defense. From what I've seen, they are about the same, which is average at best.

 

[VF21]

I wouldn't be so quick to say that Beno is better than Bibby on defense. From what I've seen, they are about the same, which is average at best.

Beno does the little things you would never see Mike do, such as having his hands up when the ball is inbounded. That's a carryover from the Spurs because it takes an act of some supreme deity to get the Kings to do that on a regular basis. He also seems to be better on help defense.

So I guess we'll agree to disagree - at least about Beno's defense. And I'm a longtime fan of Mike's.

 

[PurpleHaze]

ALL of the Kings are playing better D this year because Coach Theus D-mands it, or else - so to speak. When Bibby gets back on the court and if "the big star" fails to play D with the kind of effort, enthusiasm, and effectiveness of this fellow teammates he'll simply loses minutes and even his starting job. Theus has said exactly that, not directed at Bibby - but everyone on the roster.

 

[Elektrik]

We're lacking a power forward. And, for most of the year, we've been lacking two starters. I think you have to address that situation before anything else.

When healthy, we're still lacking a legitimate power forward. Not a work in progress but a real, "Holy crap, it's Karl Malone"-type power forward.

Agreed. But, while a Karl Malone type power forward would be more than acceptable, I would much rather have a "Chris Webber" type power forward.....but, I digress....

 

[PurpleHaze]

Agreed. But, while a Karl Malone type power forward would be more than acceptable, I would much rather have a "Chris Webber" type power forward.....but, I digress....

Chris Webber's available I suppose if he wants to sign for the veterans minimum. Obviously, not much of a market in the NBA for an old power forward with bad knees who is a shell of his former self. I heard he recently turned down a deal to play in Europe saying he wanted to sign with an NBA team, like Dallas, or back to Detroit. With each passing day it's more likely Webber will never again suit up for an NBA team. I don't know if we'll (meaning Kings) will ever see such a remarkable skilled passing PF like C-Webb. One in a zillion as they say.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Uh... Elektrik said a Chris Webber-type power forward, not Chris Webber... I'm pretty sure that means that Elektrik would rather have a PF of the type that Webber was when he was healthy, not of the type he is today; he doesn't even really play PF these days...

 

[piksi]

I wouldn't be so quick to say that Beno is better than Bibby on defense. From what I've seen, they are about the same, which is average at best.

Beno plays defense. Every player that played for Spurs - does it.

Mike Bibby doesn't even know how to spell that word. Since I fixed the 3rd wheel - my computer chair would score 30 on Mike Bibby

 

[Kingzrool]

I'm sure he didn't expect or couldn't foresee. Three starters out at one time? Whoa...

4 starters, don't forget about SAR.



















hahahahahahahahahahaha

I wouldn't be so quick to say that Beno is better than Bibby on defense. From what I've seen, they are about the same, which is average at best.

Even more funny. Wait, did you just imply that Bibby was average at best on defense? Please.

I am with trading Bibby, Udrih is a pure PG. I also agree that keeping Artest is a necessity. I like the approach of playing intense defense and shutting teams down rather than being soft and making lots of shots. You need Artest for that.

 

[fnordius]

Amick's comment about Watkins vs. Williams was curious: Watkins had more upside but Williams fits with the current players.

Well, yeah, Watkins is a legit 6'10", which Williams will never be, and that is upside. Watkins' numbers also suggested that he wasn't really NBA ready, which also means (you HOPE) that he will get much better. Williams is the better player now, and while I expect him to improve a lot, he will never be 6'10". He might be able to develop into a killer rebounding and blocking SF, but we are so overstocked on SFs that he'll probably be stuck as a (relatively) smallball PF/C until Artest is gone.

Now, on to the more important stuff...

I do think that both Bibby and Artest should go, because they are worth something, and they are enders. They may be two of our best players, but we're not winning anything this year anyway, so wisest to save some value for the future. Trading them for vets would be shooting ourselves in the foot, but youngsters or picks... heck, yeah. Even trading them for worthless enders would be some help, insofar as it would improve our draft chances. Might allow us to re-sign Beno and others, too, since right now we can't afford to do that.

Other than that, unless we can persuade SAR and/or KT to retire or be bought out, we're kind of stuck with what we have: a load of SF/SGs, Beno, Brad, Spencer and Justin. Well, and Mikki, who is eating Spencer and Justin's minutes. There are no good FAs to be had, and we couldn't afford them if there were, so we either trade for picks and kids, or we suck enough to draft them, or both. Reggie doesn't seem big on sucking, so Geoff had better work some magic on trades. I don't see any alternatives that lead to a good future.

 

[Jerryaki]

Well I can't imagine anybody thinking we shouldn't go after Okafor, unless it be because of concern over be the injuries.

in addition to the injuries, we'd have to play him as a center, or at least he'd have to develop to play the 4; right now in charlotte they couldn't play him at the 4 and had to bench nazr from the starting spot at the 5.

 

[Kingster]

I wouldn't be so quick to say that Beno is better than Bibby on defense. From what I've seen, they are about the same, which is average at best.

I'd like to see Bibby and Beno guarding each other in practice. That would be hilarious. They sure must have a lot of fun scoring on each other.

 

[Kingster]

Beno doesn't have the talent to be a starting poing guard. Yes, he can start on a lousy team, but I can't envision him ever starting for a team that might vie for the championship. Sign him for $2 mill/year as a backup.

The 28 years of age and older crowd needs to go - Bibby, Artest, Miller, Thomas, SAR, Miki. They are mere placeholders for the Kings' future. Refurbishing needs to end; rebuilding needs to begin.

 

[Bricklayer]

Beno doesn't have the talent to be a starting poing guard. Yes, he can start on a lousy team, but I can't envision him ever starting for a team that might vie for the championship. Sign him for $2 mill/year as a backup.

Two words: Derek Fisher.

Its kind of that same thing. Smart, steady PG. Bring the ball up, hit some open shots. Occasionally do something heady. If you have great players elsewhere it is all that is needed. We of course do not however.

 

['89 Kings Fan]

Watkins had more upside but Williams fits with the current players.

I think what happend to Watkins was one he was such a disappointment in the first three games of the season. 50 Minutes-5-13 Shooting-11 rebounds-6 TO-0 Assists-1Stl-1Blk.

That was worse than Mikki Moore's numbers that we all complain about. His other big problem to quote DraftExpress, "Watkins has a great set of physical tools, and shows off some nice skills as well, but he doesn’t consistently play with the assertiveness he should on either end of the floor." I think the coaching staff felt he was not motivated enough to help the team.

As to the Bibby vs. Beno question, Beno is obviously better for the Kings Situation right now. He is younger and cheaper for this transition period. But to keep him the Kings have to move Bibby now, because without moving Bibby's Salary we won't have the money to keep him.

As far as trading Bibby and RonRon hopefully we would get one new starter for the both of them, and hopefully he plays PF.

 

[CruzDude]

Listening to all of the "aromas from the kings kitchen" one other thing pops up: the need for a new BENCH MOB!! Remember them in 99-02?

The Jon Barry led mob who many times came in and outscored the starters and built leads on just about anybody? Barry, Pollard, BobbyJ, Turkoglu and ole instant points Funderburk.

Yeah, a bench mob who was hungry and hard nosed and who were better than most of the other benches and who relished their roles off the bench.

In rebuilding that is hard to do right now. The key word in this being "role" players. Guys who knew what was expected of them, who had the killer instincts. The players we get back from trading Bibbs and/or RonRon can be those guys with one or two fighting for starting roles.

But I kinda like the idea of Beno & Kevin, Salmons & Mikki and Brad with Cisco, Jones, Douby, Hawes and two big bangers from the trades off the bench. This bench is no bench mob for sure but Cisco and Jones could be the start plus a Pollard type and a scoring banger.

Heck, unless I'm missing somethin' Watkins may be one of those bigs off the bench.

 

[CruzDude]

One tidbit on the Darryl Watkins front. Datelined Dec 14, the LA Defenders of the D-League signed Watkins. Thats a Lakers team!!! In 6 games since in 19min/game, he has 4.8 reb adn 4.9 pts and only 3 turnovers in 6 games!!!!

What an insult if the Lakers ever call him up. arrgghh.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Barry, Pollard, BobbyJ, Turkoglu and ole instant points Funderburk.

Don't forget the immortal Tony Delk, too.

edit: on a non-basketball related note, I'm glad to have my power back on now, it was out since last night...not sure how long for, though...this storm is a DOOZY! 75 MPH winds in Sacramento, WTF?!?