What about retiring Bibby's number? (split from "about time" thread)
bibby will always have a special place in my heart, just as Webb, Vlade, Peja, Christie and Bobby will. They were a part of an incredible time in Kings history, one I know I will never forget. I, for one, will never forget what those guys brought to the franchise and truely treasure the memories.
That said, I would only retire Webb & Vlade. While all of those guys added a special piece to a special time, Webb and Vlade made it possible.
That said, I would only retire Webb & Vlade. While all of those guys added a special piece to a special time, Webb and Vlade made it possible.
its really sort of sad that this is even a discussion. It really goes to show you how far franchises are apart from each other.
Retiring a number is a very, very significant thing. Those that want to put Bibby on have been admittedly biased, and you kinda have to be.
Take a look at the other teams' retired numbers, and what those players have done over the course of their careers. They were almost always integral parts of championships (even IF we had a championship, Bibby would have been a maybe in the big scheme of things), HOF'ers, 50 Greatest, perennial all stars, or record holders of either the franchise or the league. Bibby is none of these.
Retired numbers aren't for someone who will probably never see an all star game, or for coming up big in one series.
Retiring a number is a very, very significant thing. Those that want to put Bibby on have been admittedly biased, and you kinda have to be.
Take a look at the other teams' retired numbers, and what those players have done over the course of their careers. They were almost always integral parts of championships (even IF we had a championship, Bibby would have been a maybe in the big scheme of things), HOF'ers, 50 Greatest, perennial all stars, or record holders of either the franchise or the league. Bibby is none of these.
Retired numbers aren't for someone who will probably never see an all star game, or for coming up big in one series.
The mere notion of retiring Bibby's jersey is ridiculous, regardless of how much he was liked and how he played in that "almost" WCF series. Webber and Divac began the historic run for the Kings and were the faces of the franchise through the glory years.
Recall, too, that the "run" started with JWill at the point, and I am not convinced that it would not have continued at the same level had he stayed and matured along the same path he followed in Memphis and then at Miami where he got his ring. It can certainly be argued that Adelman was not the right coach to bring that out in him, as opposed to Hubie and Pat, but we will never truly know.
So, Mike, while a vital cog in what the Kings achieved for a few years, just does not measure up. Great player, just not great enough.
Recall, too, that the "run" started with JWill at the point, and I am not convinced that it would not have continued at the same level had he stayed and matured along the same path he followed in Memphis and then at Miami where he got his ring. It can certainly be argued that Adelman was not the right coach to bring that out in him, as opposed to Hubie and Pat, but we will never truly know.
So, Mike, while a vital cog in what the Kings achieved for a few years, just does not measure up. Great player, just not great enough.
No other former Sacramento player should have a number in the rafters
Simply put it's being complacent with mediocrity. As much as we all enjoyed those years, zero finals wins, zero conference championships. None of those guys deserve to have nobody for the rest of the existence of the franchise wear their number.
Richmond was definitely deserved, he was the face of the franchise for years, plus he's most remembered as being on the Kings and not the Warriors, Wizards or Lakers.
Simply put it's being complacent with mediocrity. As much as we all enjoyed those years, zero finals wins, zero conference championships. None of those guys deserve to have nobody for the rest of the existence of the franchise wear their number.
Richmond was definitely deserved, he was the face of the franchise for years, plus he's most remembered as being on the Kings and not the Warriors, Wizards or Lakers.
N
I'm sorry but without Bibby there is no great Kings team. Bibby was clutch and a HUGE part of how great the Kings were. I agree that Vlade and Webb should get their number retired first, but Bibby has to eventually go up as well.
Also. He was on Team Jordan. His jersey should be retired based on all the player exlcusive J's he wore! Just look at the Purple/White XII Lows he's wearing the picture!
Also. He was on Team Jordan. His jersey should be retired based on all the player exlcusive J's he wore! Just look at the Purple/White XII Lows he's wearing the picture!
By that logic wouldn't you have to retire Peja and Christie too? What about BJax? Their contributions weren't exactly small either. I love Bibby, but I think that you have to draw the line somewhere or you have to retire the whole dang team, and that would be over the top. To me, the entire team was part of something incredible, but without Webb and Vlade it wouldn't have been possible. For me, that's where you have to draw the line.
I haven't read all the posts, so I'm not sure where everyone is on this topic, but for me its a no. I'm of the opinion that retired numbers are for players that were great. Jerry West, Larry Bird, Oscar Robertson, Tiny Archibald, etc. Bibby was, and still is a very nice player, but he couldn't be compared to Jason Kidd or Steve Nash, or John Stocton. Kevin Johnson was a better pt guard. So is Parker.
Its one thing to have affection for a player and the memories he evokes. But its another to put him in with the lofty company of greats.
Its one thing to have affection for a player and the memories he evokes. But its another to put him in with the lofty company of greats.
As much as Bibby was a part of our team, it was Vlade and Chris that changed this franchise; yeah, Mike did complete it or help us move forward, but it was those two guys that was our team’s foundation, our rock and the balance. Vlade really was the glue. Mike was another player. And no disrespect to what Mike did during those playoff runs. But I don’t think we should retire his number.
That's an impressive contradiction. The Rock, who led the Kings to a single playoff birth and quick first round exit in seven seasons, deserves to have his number hang in the rafters, but Vlade and Webber (and anyone else from that era) with their six playoffs in six seasons, two Pacific Division Champion Banners and WCF appearance do not because that's "being complacent with mediocrity".
Your first assertion, while I disagree, is at least valid. Tacking on the bit with Richmond is simply ludicrous.
Your first assertion, while I disagree, is at least valid. Tacking on the bit with Richmond is simply ludicrous.
Yes that's why I mention Richmond in my post, I'd think someone who is a moderator would actually read someone's message before posting an inaccurate reply.
"Tacking on the bit with Richmond is simply ludicrous.", even making this statement is showing a complete lack of reasoning.
As far as Richmond not being deserving, if you ask any casual NBA fan to name any Kings player from the 80's or 90's they'll name Richmond.
6 All Star appearances, 3rd leading scorer in franchise history and basically someone who didn't complain until his last contract while mostly playing for owners who refused to spend on player salaries, he was the one bright spot for some dysmal years. Richmond gets up there not only for time served but for bringing some national respect for the city and team. Richmond overachieved there was nothing more he could do (and yes there's different standards for different periods, the Richmond teams were not mediocre, they were awful.), Webber/Divac/Bibby underachieved.
"Tacking on the bit with Richmond is simply ludicrous.", even making this statement is showing a complete lack of reasoning.
"Tacking on the bit with Richmond is simply ludicrous.", even making this statement is showing a complete lack of reasoning.
As far as Richmond not being deserving, if you ask any casual NBA fan to name any Kings player from the 80's or 90's they'll name Richmond.
6 All Star appearances, 3rd leading scorer in franchise history and basically someone who didn't complain until his last contract while mostly playing for owners who refused to spend on player salaries, he was the one bright spot for some dysmal years. Richmond gets up there not only for time served but for bringing some national respect for the city and team. Richmond overachieved there was nothing more he could do (and yes there's different standards for different periods, the Richmond teams were not mediocre, they were awful.), Webber/Divac/Bibby underachieved.
"Tacking on the bit with Richmond is simply ludicrous.", even making this statement is showing a complete lack of reasoning.
