Watkins & Williams: Can they help?

[CruzDude]

SAR is gone for year, KT is getting bare token minutes, Hawes seems to be getting 10-15 min/game for the future but what about Watkins and Williams?

Both show spurts of value: Watkins more a banger, rebounder who can score 5-10 in small minutes with both mid-range jumpers and bull-to-the-basket, Williams a potentially OK-to-Good rebounder and shot blocker who cannot score more than 6-8 ft from basket and may not be as tough as Watkins (4 yrs at Syracuse vs. Williams 3 yr at Wyoming).

So far the backcourt rotation is RonRon, Miller and Mikki with Hawes, Salmons and Cisco. But that doesn't go now with Salmons starting at the 2. Coach isn't using KT much and KT hasn't made two put-backs in a row for at least a year.

Coach is trying to find a rotation but with Bibbs and Kevin missing that screws up getting a bench mob put together if they want to win some games.

 

[GeraldWallace#3]

To bad watkins is gone

 

[Entity]

KT looks worse than he did last year. I can't imagine why he is getting minutes over Williams. KT has played the last 3 games and has a TOTAL of 0pts 4reb 0ast 4TO and 7PF with 1stl and 0blks. He is not aggresive enough on the offensive glass to he the offensive reb and get a put back. We all know Williams can do that. In fact as well as Miller and Moore are hooking up of late reminds me of the game last year when Williams had 17pts and Miller had a triple double with about 4 of those ast going to Justin on cuts to the basket.

 

[syadap]

And was it KT who said during the summer that his shot was getting better..well, even a blind man can sense what he's doing this season

 

[dude12]

Justin Williams needs to improve his individual post defense and he needs to get some semblance of an offensive game. His position is not just rebounding misses and blocking the weakside shots. If he can play some legit post defense, then he certainly should play more...until then, I would say wait your turn. Mikki Moore's individual defense for the most part is solid. He "shows" on the pick and roll very well. When Justin Williams can do that, then he should play more. Daryl Watkins may have more upside than Justin Williams in the long run. Really haven't seen enough of him to make a good guess. I know I prefer a guy who can make a shot.

 

[CruzDude]

Suddenly see that Watkins is not on Kings bench any more replaced by Dahntay Jones (see new thread on that).

 

[Merdiesel]

I bet if Justin started, he would average 13+ boards a game. The guy is a beast on the glass. Give him minutes Reggie!!!!

 

[Bricklayer]

I bet if Justin started, he would average 13+ boards a game. The guy is a beast on the glass. Give him minutes Reggie!!!!

Er...no.

But I do think that he could help. Am of several minds why he does not get a chance. Reggie appeared to have an old shooter's blindspot about him as far back as summer league -- ignoring what he can do and commenting on his lack of offense. On the other hand, perhaps the fallout from the whole sex scandal thing has lingered, and Justin is on the team, but persona non grata and may not get a chance. Perhaps he just comes off as dumb in a basketball sense. Perhaps we are catering to veteran egos. No matter which way, we might be beginning to see writing on the wall here that he is likely to be elsewhere next year. And its too bad too, because unless its the third one (he's dumb as rocks) he might turn into a nice roleplayer for somebody else.

 

[PurpleHaze]

I heard there was definitely some fallout from the "sex scandal" when he got back. Even though Williams was "innocent," the organization felt he was to put it mildly, an immature embarrassment. Also, Theus has not been overly impressed with his desire in practice and basic work habits. Not only did the kid get routinely beat out by other bigs during practice sessions he seemed to act like a kid around teammates and staff instead of a someone who should have learned a big lesson in life. I don't think the Kings have given up on Justin Williams, but he has to earn his way back so he doesn't give up on himself.

 

[dude12]

I heard there was definitely some fallout from the "sex scandal" when he got back. Even though Williams was "innocent," the organization felt he was to put it mildly, an immature embarrassment. Also, Theus has not been overly impressed with his desire in practice and basic work habits. Not only did the kid get routinely beat out by other bigs during practice sessions he seemed to act like a kid around teammates and staff instead of a someone who should have learned a big lesson in life. I don't think the Kings have given up on Justin Williams, but he has to earn his way back so he doesn't give up on himself.

Not saying what your saying is not true but where did you hear about his work ethic and the fallout from the police troubles?

 

[VF21]

I think the whole issue about Justin Williams will work itself out. I think PurpleHaze is exactly right -

I don't think the Kings have given up on Justin Williams, but he has to earn his way back so he doesn't give up on himself.

The onus is on Williams right now to prove to himself, to his teammates, to the coaches and to the organization that he really wants to be a part of this team going into the future.

If people will think back, the informal word originally was that he was cut from the Kings because he was - in the words of Bricklayer - "dumb as rocks." He needs to show, through hard work and perseverance, that he's worth keeping around.

 

[bajaden]

Someone asked Popavich would he rather have 5 good indiviual man on man defenders, or 5 good team defenders. He oppted for the 5 good team defenders, because team defense is what wins games. What I have heard is that Justin sometimes gets lost on team defense. No one can despute his one on one defense, but you have to be able to play within the team defense concept. You miss your assignment, and you make someone else look bad. Bricky could be right with the dumb as rocks possibility. Time will tell.

 

[Glenn]

Now that we are on Justin, I have a random stat in my head. Justin is averaging 0.1 assists per game. Without looking it up, I think theat means he had 1 or two assists last year. That inability may improve over time but can I say "I DOUBT IT?" This isn't simply because he played so little as he still managed roughly 5 points a game. There is no team offense if one player cannot pass the ball. We have trouble enough with stagnation with dribble .... dribble ..... dribble. We are working our way into a better team game and Justin has to be able to pass.

 

[Bricklayer]

Now that we are on Justin, I have a random stat in my head. Justin is averaging 0.1 assists per game. Without looking it up, I think theat means he had 1 or two assists last year. That inability may improve over time but can I say "I DOUBT IT?" This isn't simply because he played so little as he still managed roughly 5 points a game. There is no team offense if one player cannot pass the ball. We have trouble enough with stagnation with dribble .... dribble ..... dribble. We are working our way into a better team game and Justin has to be able to pass.

I'm not sure that's true, the reason being because he barely needs to touch the ball.

If he was a guard, or a scorer, then yes. But he's a garbageman. A Ben Wallace. A Rodman. A Pollard. You don't need those guys to do any more than swing the ball in very routine fashion and then go try to retrieve it when somebody else shoots it.

 

[VF21]

If I recall, I actually wrote a tutorial for Justin at one point:

Blocking shots:
1. Stand near basket
2. See ball
3. Swat ball

Rebounding:
1. Stand near basket
2. See ball
3. Retrieve ball

 

[Warhawk]

If I recall, I actually wrote a tutorial for Justin at one point:

Blocking shots:
1. Stand near basket
2. See ball
3. Swat ball

Rebounding:
1. Stand near basket
2. See ball
3. Retrieve ball

That sums it up nicely, I think.

Need to add a couple things though:

A. If you do swat the ball, try to swat it to a teammate.
B. If you do retrieve the ball on an offensive rebound, dunk it, will ya?

 

[Glenn]

I'm not sure that's true, the reason being because he barely needs to touch the ball.

If he was a guard, or a scorer, then yes. But he's a garbageman. A Ben Wallace. A Rodman. A Pollard. You don't need those guys to do any more than swing the ball in very routine fashion and then go try to retrieve it when somebody else shoots it.

If that is all we require of a big man, that's pretty limited. I understand that's what he does. I just thought an offense would work better if a big man could actually hit a cutting small man. Martin's game is built in part on this type of pass.

Even Mikki gets 0.7 assists per game. That's very little but if expressed in relation to Justin's stats, Mikki has 7 times as many assists per game.

I wish he was a Ben Wallace 'cause then his inability to pass would seem less of a bother. Certainly you weren't implying he was as good as Ben.

 

[Superman]

If that is all we require of a big man, that's pretty limited. I understand that's what he does. I just thought an offense would work better if a big man could actually hit a cutting small man. Martin's game is built in part on this type of pass.

Even Mikki gets 0.7 assists per game. That's very little but if expressed in relation to Justin's stats, Mikki has 7 times as many assists per game.

I wish he was a Ben Wallace 'cause then his inability to pass would seem less of a bother. Certainly you weren't implying he was as good as Ben.

I miss Vlade.

 

[dude12]

No one can despute his one on one defense, but you have to be able to play within the team defense concept. Time will tell.

Actually you can dispute his defense because he's not that good of a 1 on 1 defender. He's not horrible but he's not that good. He goes for too many fakes and tries to block every shot instead of just playing good defense. Now he's a good off-the-ball shotblocker but he's got a long way to go as an overall player.

 

[VF21]

I miss Vlade.

Me, too... And I miss games like this:

Kings over Celtics 127-111
Scorer: Peja 28
Rebounds: Divac 11
Assists: Divac 11
Blocks: Divac 3
Steals: Christie 1
TO - 17
FG% 54%
3pt% - 53%
FT - 61%

Vlade had a triple-double and the Kings had 7 players in double digits.

 

[kennadog]

I miss Vlade.

Me, too.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Justin's job is to finish when he gets the ball. Under no circumstance should the offense be run through him, and it doesn't, which explains the assist numbers.

 

[CruzDude]

Betcha the Celts didn't have KG and Ray Allen then either!

 

[CruzDude]

I agree with the consensus about Williams: decent 1-on-1 defender, not good team defender, can block shots, can't score from anywhere more than 4 ft from basket, apparently very immature and needs to work his butt off to get into the rotation. He did muscle up a bit for the season compared to last year. And he does have a 1-year contract worth $862,456!!

 

[gunks]

And he did have 10 boards in 14 minutes a couple games ago and hasnt seen burn since...


...Granted it was garbage time but still, guy produces with minutes...We saw that at the end of last season, so why no minutes? The epic race towards 10th in the west?

 

[fnordius]

Even Mikki gets 0.7 assists per game. That's very little but if expressed in relation to Justin's stats, Mikki has 7 times as many assists per game.

No, Mikki has gotten infinitely more, because Justin hasn't been given enough minutes this year to get even one assist. But Mikki only gets 1.1 assist per 40 minutes, and Justin hasn't even gotten 20 minutes all season. So, in fact, Justin could get more assists than Mikki, we just don't know.

Here are the updated stats per 40, for our bigs, from most productive to least.

---------PTS--REB--ASST--TO--PF--BLK--FG%--PER
JW: --14.7--23.2----0.0-----2.1--4.2---2.1---75.0%-23.96
BM: --13.2--9.6------3.2----2.1--4.4---1.4---42.5%-14.25
SH: --14.7--10.0-----0.5----2.4--5.0---1.3---41.7%-10.94
MM: --10.7--8.0-----1.1-----1.9--5.9---0.7---51.7%--9.70
KT: ---5.2---9.4------2.2-----3.0--3.0---0.2---40.9%--3.81

 

[Glenn]

No, Mikki has gotten infinitely more, because Justin hasn't been given enough minutes this year to get even one assist. But Mikki only gets 1.1 assist per 40 minutes, and Justin hasn't even gotten 20 minutes all season. So, in fact, Justin could get more assists than Mikki, we just don't know.

Here are the updated stats per 40, for our bigs, from most productive to least.

---------PTS--REB--ASST--TO--PF--BLK--FG%--PER
JW: --14.7--23.2----0.0-----2.1--4.2---2.1---75.0%-23.96
BM: --13.2--9.6------3.2----2.1--4.4---1.4---42.5%-14.25
SH: --14.7--10.0-----0.5----2.4--5.0---1.3---41.7%-10.94
MM: --10.7--8.0-----1.1-----1.9--5.9---0.7---51.7%--9.70
KT: ---5.2---9.4------2.2-----3.0--3.0---0.2---40.9%--3.81

Yes, given this year, that's definitely true, Not one assist for Justin. I was mixing stats - not cool.

In Justin's career he is averaging 0.1 assist per game.

 

[fnordius]

Yes, given this year, that's definitely true, Not one assist for Justin. I was mixing stats - not cool.

In Justin's career he is averaging 0.1 assist per game.

As opposed to Mikki Moore, who in his rookie year, did not get a single assist. Brad Miller got a whopping 0.6 per game as a rookie. But you don't get bigs for assists, so it's kind of a moot point.

 

[dude12]

As opposed to Mikki Moore, who in his rookie year, did not get a single assist. Brad Miller got a whopping 0.6 per game as a rookie. But you don't get bigs for assists, so it's kind of a moot point.

Well actually the Kings of Vlade, CWebb and Miller, these bigs were acquired for their passing skills as well as the other areas of their game. The offense ran through these guys.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well actually the Kings of Vlade, CWebb and Miller, these bigs were acquired for their passing skills as well as the other areas of their game. The offense ran through these guys.

And this unfortunately has confused a whole generation of Kings fans. That was a very unique team, under a unique system -- why they are still talked about. But being a good passer ranks somewhere just above has a wicked crossover as far as key traits for most bigs. A nice bonus, particularly if the guy is a post player so that he can pass out of doubleteams. But not a core trait at all. PGs have to pass to be valuable. Bigs have to rebound and block shots.