VSL Game 2 Thread - Kings vs. Warriors

[bajaden]

I believe he said that Evans was quick enough to get by those guards and big enough to post them up. He also stated that if the choice is between two players of equal talent, you always take the bigger of the two. (paraphrased since I couldn't replay it & don't have a transcript) And let's wait until he has more than 3 practices and 2 games under his belt before we decide whether he's a 1 or not.

Maybe it would be better to wait for a couple of years before deciding whether he's a one or not. I know you didn't mean it that way. But in all honesty it takes a lot more than summer league for a player to find his identity. Nash didn't come into his own until his fourth or fifth season. Ditto Billups.

Think how much easier this would all be if Evans was starting the season with the Celtics. You have to judge a player on everything, including who he's playing with. Take Rondo off the Celtics and stick him on the Timberwolves and see if he puts up the same numbers. Not a knock on him, its just easier to play with superstars than it is with young, inexperienced, although talented players.

 

[Larry89]

It would be interesting if evans could develop a post game a la gary payton with that incredibly large size of his for a pg

 

[Showtime]

Watching the highlights and maybe it's just because they are highlights, it looks to me that the one thing Reke does a bit too much is go 1-on-1. Anyone else notice this?

That's exactly what makes him special. He can break down his man to the point of teams having to game plan against him, which means there will be guys left open. Frankly, this team has few, if any, players that can break down single coverage and I'm tired of this "bring the bigs out to the 3 to set screens to set up a bad shot" offense that we saw last season.

 

[rainmaker]

That's exactly what makes him special. He can break down his man to the point of teams having to game plan against him, which means there will be guys left open. Frankly, this team has few, if any, players that can break down single coverage and I'm tired of this "bring the bigs out to the 3 to set screens to set up a bad shot" offense that we saw last season.

I agree, I would much rather see Tyreke attacking the paint one on one rather than having other players put up contested 20ft jumpers. Tyreke will post up more often as he becomes more comfortable, and he will pick up a few more assists when he gets use to where his teammates will be in certian situations.

 

[fnordius]

Its pretty hard to judge point guard skills in two on two's or three on Three's. At least as far as passing the ball goes, or setting up teammates. It just doesn't translate to five on five. But you can judge defense on one on one skills, and thats an area of need for the kings on the perimiter. They couldn't stop him, and he could stop them.

Yeah. But this brings us back to a scenario familiar from a few years ago. We badly needed a PG, but someone whose credentials as a PG were rather doubyous worked out for us and convinced the FO that he'd rain down 3s on the opposition all day. So they decided to let him learn to be a PG after he was drafted and signed.

Evans is a much safer pick, in that he clearly has a position he can play in the NBA, even if it's not the one we drafted him for. Worst case, we end up with two fine SGs. But that doesn't do much to alleviate the concern voiced about weighting one-on-one play too heavily when choosing PGs. The FO has talked a little about how workouts are only a small part of the picture, but they've also gushed at great length about how Evans did playing one-on-one, just like they gushed over how well Douby did at shooting uncontested 3s. That was the real defense for this pick, when fans were unhappy on draft night, wasn't it? That the FO had seen Evans do well (one-on-one) in the workouts, which we weren't privy to. Because the FO was rumored to have split into Rubio/Flynn and Evans camps before draft night, one is left wondering whether that wasn't a division between those who wanted to stick to our shopping list, and those who wanted to ignore the shopping list and make an impulse buy instead, based on the workouts. The Maloofs were clearly convinced to join the latter group, but was the process used the correct one for evaluating a PG?

I'd thought that Hawes and Evans were our picks because we were going to keep playing the Princeton, or something along those lines, but now Westphal is saying that we're not. So now I'm really confused. With the Princeton, you can play two SGs, because the assists are coming from elsewhere anyway. If we're not going to be playing the Princeton, I'm stumped as to what the strategy is. Hope that Evans turns into a true PG, and trade Kevin if he doesn't? Are Geoff and Westphal on the same page about all this stuff?

I know better than to expect the FO to issue any clear and timely answers, so we don't have much choice except to wait and see. If anybody's nervous while we're waiting, I can't say that I blame them. It'll be a while before we can see for ourselves what the plan was, if there was any concrete plan. Skittishness is a natural response to having such big unknowns floating around.

 

[gunks]

I dont really see Evans as a PG... I think it's more likely he'll be giving us 20/5/5 from the 2 then giving us 20/7/4 or something from the 1.

Honestly, I think Rubio was/is overrated as a prospect. It's neato that he's a true point and all, and it's neato that he got such compliments from team USA players...But the dude is frail, unathletic, AND cant shoot. I think he's going to be easy to shut down in the NBA. Of course that's my opinion...And I'll sadly but willingly eat crow if Rubio turns out to be a great PG down the line.

I wouldnt have minded Flynn being the pick honestly, I think he'll be pretty solid for the Wolves. Just not sure how high his ceiling is.

Jennings is....Jennings. We'll see how good he is on monday.

There were just ??? with every PG prospect on the board.


The FO finally made themselves a swing for the fences pick (although you could argue Rubio would be a swing for the fences pick as well). If Evans can play the point in the NBA he is going to be a disgustingly beastly match up problem for just about every team in the league....If he cant, then he still has the potential to be an amazing shooting guard, which frees up Martin for a trade.

You can make the Douby comparison, but Evans has legit size. Douby was an SG with a PGs body. Evans could be a PG in an SGs body...And if he isnt, then he's an SG in an SGs body. Which is pretty much the norm for that position

Then again you made that point in your post.


I understand your waryness...We could very well go into next season without addressing our biggest need. But at least we'll have another great young prospect.

 

[fnordius]

You can make the Douby comparison, but Evans has legit size. Douby was an SG with a PGs body. Evans could be a PG in an SGs body...And if he isnt, then he's an SG in an SGs body. Which is pretty much the norm for that position

Then again you made that point in your post.

Yeah. Evans is not Douby, I'm talking about the process more than the pick. If we had just hired a really good coach based on Powerpoint skills, I'd feel the same.

 

[bajaden]

Yeah. But this brings us back to a scenario familiar from a few years ago. We badly needed a PG, but someone whose credentials as a PG were rather doubyous worked out for us and convinced the FO that he'd rain down 3s on the opposition all day. So they decided to let him learn to be a PG after he was drafted and signed.

Evans is a much safer pick, in that he clearly has a position he can play in the NBA, even if it's not the one we drafted him for. Worst case, we end up with two fine SGs. But that doesn't do much to alleviate the concern voiced about weighting one-on-one play too heavily when choosing PGs. The FO has talked a little about how workouts are only a small part of the picture, but they've also gushed at great length about how Evans did playing one-on-one, just like they gushed over how well Douby did at shooting uncontested 3s. That was the real defense for this pick, when fans were unhappy on draft night, wasn't it? That the FO had seen Evans do well (one-on-one) in the workouts, which we weren't privy to. Because the FO was rumored to have split into Rubio/Flynn and Evans camps before draft night, one is left wondering whether that wasn't a division between those who wanted to stick to our shopping list, and those who wanted to ignore the shopping list and make an impulse buy instead, based on the workouts. The Maloofs were clearly convinced to join the latter group, but was the process used the correct one for evaluating a PG?

I'd thought that Hawes and Evans were our picks because we were going to keep playing the Princeton, or something along those lines, but now Westphal is saying that we're not. So now I'm really confused. With the Princeton, you can play two SGs, because the assists are coming from elsewhere anyway. If we're not going to be playing the Princeton, I'm stumped as to what the strategy is. Hope that Evans turns into a true PG, and trade Kevin if he doesn't? Are Geoff and Westphal on the same page about all this stuff?

I know better than to expect the FO to issue any clear and timely answers, so we don't have much choice except to wait and see. If anybody's nervous while we're waiting, I can't say that I blame them. It'll be a while before we can see for ourselves what the plan was, if there was any concrete plan. Skittishness is a natural response to having such big unknowns floating around.

If you want to use the word gushed in relation to Evans, I'll go along with that. But I would hardly use the word gushed in relationship to Douby. Evans is a much better player than Douby who in my opinion was a one note somba. Evans at least shows point guard instincts. Whether they can be refined or not, we'll just have to wait an see. I watched Douby a few times in college, and he never ever appeared to have point guard instincts. Not his fault, but unfortunate for him.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you that he's a can't miss point guard. I think he has the skills to become one, but it will take time. I will tell you that I think he's goiing to be a can't miss star in this league. So in my opinion we win either way. We just win bigger if he can become a good point.

As far as the interveiw with Westphal. He quoted Coachie as saying that the Princeton offense doesn't work in the NBA. However, he did say that they would be running some type of motion offense as their offensive scheme. Such as the triangle etc. So your premise would still work. With Hawes, Thompson, Cisco/Nocioni, Martin, and Evans on the floor, you have four out of the five that are decent to good passers. Martin is the only weak passer of the bunch, and last year he did show some flashes of becoming better. One of the reasons that I think McNeal could make the team is that he can handle the ball and he plays good defense. Casspi has, at least so far, appeared to be a decent passer.

Lets face it, Bibby was hardly a pass first point guard, and really didn't handle the ball that much after bringing it up the court. Christi or Webb or Vlade usually initiated the offense. And that worked fine. I actually see the ball in Evans hands more than it was Bibby's. He's a better ball handler and a better penetrater. We'll see if he's a better passer.

 

[gunks]

Yeah. Evans is not Douby, I'm talking about the process more than the pick. If we had just hired a really good coach based on Powerpoint skills, I'd feel the same.

Gotcha!

It is kinda iffy to pick a guy you want to play PG based on workouts (partially based anyways) that do not highlight PG skills.

I'm more excited about Evans the player, than worried about how Evans the player will fit into our roster. Plenty of ways to view the pick, and ours just differ.

It is going to be an interesting (and rough) season.

 

[kingsnation]

You can't judge by the highlights. You have to see everything in the content of the game. His assist total could have been higher had some on the recieving end done a better job of finishing. But that could be true in any game. Remember that his main talent is getting to the basket, so its going to look like thats all he does in a highlight reel.

Well, I know not to judge by the highlights. That's why I was asking everyone who saw the game - was Reke primarily going 1-on-1??

Because if he was, they need to break that out of him now, IMO.

It's ok to do it sometimes, but not all the time.

 

[fnordius]

Lets face it, Bibby was hardly a pass first point guard, and really didn't handle the ball that much after bringing it up the court. Christi or Webb or Vlade usually initiated the offense. And that worked fine.

Well, that was by design. Bibby had been a pass-first PG before he came to Sac, at Vancouver he averaged almost 10 assists per 48 minutes. The moment he arrived in Sac, that dropped to less than 8 per 48, and it never recovered until his first season in Atlanta. That's just the Princeton at work.

I was AFK when Westphal was talking about plans for offense, and had to rely on what other posters said about that. My understanding was that he was leaning towards some sort of motion offense, which is very vague. Depending on how you define it, you could say that much of the NBA is playing some sort of generally motion-oriented offense. If he specifically mentioned the Triangle, that's different, that would seem like a clear offensive plan, continuing from where Theus left off. As long as we're happy playing that for the foreseeable future, we don't need much of a PG, and Hawes and Evans look like suitable choices.

Due to the difficulty of the Triangle, and the long learning curve associated with it, that would also mean that we'll suck again this year. Good news for Kings fans who're watching next year's draft, but not so good if we're trying to sell any seats at Arco this season.

Did Westphal specifically mention the Triangle by name?

 

[Jechtsphere]

Well, I know not to judge by the highlights. That's why I was asking everyone who saw the game - was Reke primarily going 1-on-1??

Because if he was, they need to break that out of him now, IMO.

It's ok to do it sometimes, but not all the time.

Well don't all guards have to go one on one to break their defender down? The defense collapses that way and guys all of a sudden are open now what happens when you break down the defender tells more.

As I've seen, Reke is not a black hole at all like a Salmons was so in that way he's not going 1 on 1 and ignoring everyone else on the court.

I myself have watched him play point and he looks fine and gives me hope he can be a PG, I don't watch and think wow he is so lost like we all did with Douby.

 

[bajaden]

Well, that was by design. Bibby had been a pass-first PG before he came to Sac, at Vancouver he averaged almost 10 assists per 48 minutes. The moment he arrived in Sac, that dropped to less than 8 per 48, and it never recovered until his first season in Atlanta. That's just the Princeton at work.

I was AFK when Westphal was talking about plans for offense, and had to rely on what other posters said about that. My understanding was that he was leaning towards some sort of motion offense, which is very vague. Depending on how you define it, you could say that much of the NBA is playing some sort of generally motion-oriented offense. If he specifically mentioned the Triangle, that's different, that would seem like a clear offensive plan, continuing from where Theus left off. As long as we're happy playing that for the foreseeable future, we don't need much of a PG, and Hawes and Evans look like suitable choices.

Due to the difficulty of the Triangle, and the long learning curve associated with it, that would also mean that we'll suck again this year. Good news for Kings fans who're watching next year's draft, but not so good if we're trying to sell any seats at Arco this season.

Did Westphal specifically mention the Triangle by name?

No, he didn't mention it by name. I just used it as an example of a motion offense. And your right, most teams use some sort of motion offense. If Coachie says the Princeton offense won't work in the NBA, then I wonder what name he would have given to the offense we used when Webb and Vlade were here. I'm sure it was some variation of the Princeton..

Whatever it was, I'm sure that Coachie will have some influence on the offense..

 

[fnordius]

If Coachie says the Princeton offense won't work in the NBA, then I wonder what name he would have given to the offense we used when Webb and Vlade were here. I'm sure it was some variation of the Princeton.

While at Princeton, Coachie ran two different offenses. They weren't all that different from each other, both emphasised fundamental basketball skills, teamwork, and ball movement. The difference was that, in his first years there, he had a pretty talented bunch of players, so had no need to do anything very unusual to win. Later, after Princeton's tuition rates skyrocketed, with no sports scholarships, Coachie found himself running a team which was not big, or talented, or athletic. That was when Coachie came up with what he considers to be the true Princeton. And he did very well with it, despite his poor roster.

I guess when you have a roster that's continually referred to as "obscenely talented," as the Kings were in 2001-3, you can't really be playing a true Princeton. A true Princeton means, for example, that you will almost always pass rather than take a contested shot, because none of your players can be expected to hit a contested shot. I think the game The Team played was kind of similar to what he did with his earlier, more talented, college teams. Maybe 3/4 classical Princeton, 1/4 "other."

A true Princeton can work at the college level because it exploits mistakes made by the opposition, but mistakes aren't so common at the NBA level. If the opponents are all good man-on-man defenders who play a smart game, and never give their man an uncontested shot, a pure Princeton isn't really going to cut it.

Hard to know quite how the next iteration will go, since we have a much less talented team than we did, but also have Coachie's assurance that a pure Princeton won't work. The fact that we're playing a fair amount of Zone D, which Coachie did not use with his more talented college teams, makes me think that he's being realistic in appraising our roster's current capabilities. I have no idea what tweaks he will add to the Princeton to make it work in the NBA, but I'm sure that he's doing his best, because we need something. I don't know if a modified Princeton is what we need or not, but I hope it's going to be fun to watch, because I'm fairly sure that's what we're getting.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Actually, it will be fine if Evans goes 1 on 1 most of the time. The question is, can he dish it out in the lane on a consistent basis?

 

[Entity]

Actually, it will be fine if Evans goes 1 on 1 most of the time. The question is, can he dish it out in the lane on a consistent basis?

I think he has answered that question in just the first 2 games of summer league. Not sure if you have watched them but, he is dishing it off great alot of people are coming up short on thier shot or getting fouled. But I have no question about his passing ability in the lane in fact it looks great. I'd much rather see Kevin Martin the recipient of his passes out than Jerell Mcneal missing wideopen 15 footers. Evans and Marin backcourt is bringing a to my face.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I think he has answered that question in just the first 2 games of summer league. Not sure if you have watched them but, he is dishing it off great alot of people are coming up short on thier shot or getting fouled. But I have no question about his passing ability in the lane in fact it looks great. I'd much rather see Kevin Martin the recipient of his passes out than Jerell Mcneal missing wideopen 15 footers. Evans and Marin backcourt is bringing a to my face.

All I have seen is the highlights posted on here of both games and in college. Obviously he looks to score once he is in the lane first but if he can kick it out like you say he will be nearly impossible to defend.

 

[Entity]

All I have seen is the highlights posted on here of both games and in college. Obviously he looks to score once he is in the lane first but if he can kick it out like you say he will be nearly impossible to defend.

highlights are made to show the scorers. Trust me I know i produce highlight reels for local sports. you aren't going to see Evans kicking off a pass to John Brockman who then gets fouled on the shot attempt. you aren't going to see Evans driving the lane and McNeals defender leave him to double and Evans kicking back to McNeal and him missing the jumper. or kicking it back to Greene who then misses the 3pt attempt. Those things will never make a highlight reel. You may have seen the drive and then the bounce pass to JT for the dunk. It was solid. Honestly if you ask me in the first game Evans looked to pass to much. The whole team did. Several possesions there was 4 to 5 passes. can you imagine Martin, Garcia, noccioni or Hawes with wide open jumpers? If they aren't wide open then Evans has a straight shot to the rim because I haven't seen anybody stay in front of him yet.

 

[KingsCitizen]

I like what I'm seeing with our rookies so far.

Evans - It's clear now that he will be the PG of this team. And I'm excited from what I see. He did have his share of TOs but its tolerable enough based on how many times the team have to put a SG on him as he is just too big to for any PG. And seeing our PG dunk and drive to the basket is a totally refreshing sight. I'm expecting an increase of our points in the paint this season with all the possible drives by Evans and additional tip ins by Hawes and Thompson.

Casspi - Looks confident and capable at SF. Before the draft, there were comments that he is the player that likes to go to the rim. And maybe the best EU prospect in doing that. But so far he's been spotting from the perimeter. But 2 games in SL is pretty silly to be down on him.

Brockman - I like the effort. Diving for those balls is a good sight considering it was only JT that does that last season. Now, having at least 2 guys willing to dive for those balls will hopefully inspire this team.

As for our sophs:

Greene - Nice improvement on his D. And great to see him not living behind the arc anymore. I always see this kid having great potential at SF with his size and range but only if he will learn to live down low or slash towards the basket. After seeing his 2nd game in SL, I think he really wants to get his minutes now and I hope Westphal will hand it to him.

Thompson - Mostly playing C, which not really what he used to after 1 season of mostly playing PF. Seemed to gain a few pounds just like Donte and I think this will really help his game to maybe a breakout season this year.

 

[VF21]

I like what I'm seeing with our rookies so far.

Evans - It's clear now that he will be the PG of this team. And I'm excited from what I see. He did have his share of TOs but its tolerable enough based on how many times the team have to put a SG on him as he is just too big to for any PG. And seeing our PG dunk and drive to the basket is a totally refreshing sight. I'm expecting an increase of our points in the paint this season with all the possible drives by Evans and additional tip ins by Hawes and Thompson.

Casspi - Looks confident and capable at SF. Before the draft, there were comments that he is the player that likes to go to the rim. And maybe the best EU prospect in doing that. But so far he's been spotting from the perimeter. But 2 games in SL is pretty silly to be down on him.

Brockman - I like the effort. Diving for those balls is a good sight considering it was only JT that does that last season. Now, having at least 2 guys willing to dive for those balls will hopefully inspire this team.

As for our sophs:

Greene - Nice improvement on his D. And great to see him not living behind the arc anymore. I always see this kid having great potential at SF with his size and range but only if he will learn to live down low or slash towards the basket. After seeing his 2nd game in SL, I think he really wants to get his minutes now and I hope Westphal will hand it to him.

Thompson - Mostly playing C, which not really what he used to after 1 season of mostly playing PF. Seemed to gain a few pounds just like Donte and I think this will really help his game to maybe a breakout season this year.

This is where I think Hawes' absence is felt the most. I can imagine that if Spencer were there, we'd be seeing JT do more of what we were seeing at the end of last season.

 

[bloom]

Right now, I’m not really concerned about wins/losses (of course I want them to win). I’m more hoping that these guys start building some nice chemistry together. I know it’s going to take more than 2 summer league games for them to trust/work with fluidity together, but I’m hoping that they will start to become more relaxed together and get that nice foundation together.

 

[HighTopKicks]

This is where I think Hawes' absence is felt the most. I can imagine that if Spencer were there, we'd be seeing JT do more of what we were seeing at the end of last season.

Or, we'd be seeing less of JT and more of Brockman and Battle at the PF, and Donte & Omri at the SF. I just don't like seeing players play out of position. After all isn't summer league for undrafted players and new signees to show what they can do. I really don't need to see our starting Center & PF playing. I wonder how many teams actually have their starters playing in summer league besides the Kings.

 

[=LarryLegend=]

Or, we'd be seeing less of JT and more of Brockman and Battle at the PF, and Donte & Omri at the SF. I just don't like seeing players play out of position. After all isn't summer league for undrafted players and new signees to show what they can do. I really don't need to see our starting Center & PF playing. I wonder how many teams actually have their starters playing in summer league besides the Kings.

OKC - Westbrooke and Harden

Gstate - Curry and Randolph

T-wolves - Flynn and Brewer

Bucks - Jennings

Knicks - Hill

Clippers - Gordon and Griffin and Thorton

 

[Bricklayer]

OKC - Westbrooke and Harden

Gstate - Curry and Randolph

T-wolves - Flynn and Brewer

Clippers - Gordon and Griffin and Thorton

All of those lists include at least 1 rookie. Most of them are a rookie and last year's rookie, which are kind of the standard.

Now it seems Petrie always wants to use it for somehting else, but summe rleague isn't early traiing camp. In fact for most of your main guys its probably more an interruption of their normal summer workout schedule thna anything else. I'm reasonably glad Spencer isn't there, although given that we still aren't spending the minutes on prospects it may not matter as much.

 

[fnordius]

I'm reasonably glad Spencer isn't there, although given that we still aren't spending the minutes on prospects it may not matter as much.

Right about now John Bryant must be asking himself what horrible sort of cooties he must have to be the only actual center on the team, yet be getting 0 out of the first 96 minutes of PT.

 

[Kingster]

The part of the Westphal interview that bugged me was that they asked him why they liked Evans over PGs like Rubio and Flynn or Curry, and he said he had Flynn and Curry in and Evans was able to score on them every time, that he dominated in 2 on 2s. That is a horrid way to pick/judge a point guard. It doesn't test any PG skills at all and at this point it is easy to tell that Evans isn't a 1 yet, he's a project at that position. Thorpe blogged about Billups and Deron Williams not having the natural ability when they came in and how it took Chauncey four years to figure it out.

I just wonder if management is PG smart enough to wait for him to figure it out.

Reynolds is always talking about the need to have great patience with point guards. Management is of no concern. Now, the fans? That's another story...

 

[HighTopKicks]

OKC - Westbrooke and Harden

Gstate - Curry and Randolph

T-wolves - Flynn and Brewer

Bucks - Jennings

Knicks - Hill

Clippers - Gordon and Griffin and Thorton

Thanks, but I meant starters from last year. You expect the draftees to play, guys who are 2nd yr & not starting, or maybe even vets coming off of injuries. But, guys from last years draft that started last yr. aren't here.

Guys like Rose, Beasley, Mayo, Westbrook, Love, Gordon, Lopez, Bayless.

Randolf is playing but he didn't start 60 games. As far as I can tell the only players in the top 30 of last yrs draft that are playing in the VSL are JT, Donte, and Randolf.

 

[HighTopKicks]

All of those lists include at least 1 rookie. Most of them are a rookie and last year's rookie, which are kind of the standard.

Now it seems Petrie always wants to use it for somehting else, but summe rleague isn't early traiing camp. In fact for most of your main guys its probably more an interruption of their normal summer workout schedule thna anything else. I'm reasonably glad Spencer isn't there, although given that we still aren't spending the minutes on prospects it may not matter as much.

Yea Brick, I don't get it. We have 2 Bigs under contract not counting Brockman who I don't believe is guaranteed a roster spot & Thomas. You'd think the Kings would have invited at least 3 PF's and 3 Centers. Then they invite Bryant, and he sits on the bench.

You'd think there would be some rumors floating around if they we trying to make a deal for another big.

At this point, the only thing I can believe is that they already made up their mind to bring in Vets to back up JT & Spencer. Maybe, Diogu since we have Bird rights on him, and someone like Rasho, Booth, or even Brown.

 

[bajaden]

While at Princeton, Coachie ran two different offenses. They weren't all that different from each other, both emphasised fundamental basketball skills, teamwork, and ball movement. The difference was that, in his first years there, he had a pretty talented bunch of players, so had no need to do anything very unusual to win. Later, after Princeton's tuition rates skyrocketed, with no sports scholarships, Coachie found himself running a team which was not big, or talented, or athletic. That was when Coachie came up with what he considers to be the true Princeton. And he did very well with it, despite his poor roster.

I guess when you have a roster that's continually referred to as "obscenely talented," as the Kings were in 2001-3, you can't really be playing a true Princeton. A true Princeton means, for example, that you will almost always pass rather than take a contested shot, because none of your players can be expected to hit a contested shot. I think the game The Team played was kind of similar to what he did with his earlier, more talented, college teams. Maybe 3/4 classical Princeton, 1/4 "other."

A true Princeton can work at the college level because it exploits mistakes made by the opposition, but mistakes aren't so common at the NBA level. If the opponents are all good man-on-man defenders who play a smart game, and never give their man an uncontested shot, a pure Princeton isn't really going to cut it.

Hard to know quite how the next iteration will go, since we have a much less talented team than we did, but also have Coachie's assurance that a pure Princeton won't work. The fact that we're playing a fair amount of Zone D, which Coachie did not use with his more talented college teams, makes me think that he's being realistic in appraising our roster's current capabilities. I have no idea what tweaks he will add to the Princeton to make it work in the NBA, but I'm sure that he's doing his best, because we need something. I don't know if a modified Princeton is what we need or not, but I hope it's going to be fun to watch, because I'm fairly sure that's what we're getting.

Sorry, late getting back. I agree with everything you just wrote. We'll just have to wait and see. I do know that its going to take time for this team to look like, well, a team. Patience doesn't run rampant on this fourm, so I expect some people to be upset. All I can remind people of, is that this is what a rebuild looks like.

I know that you know that, and I have to keep reminding myself that I'm probably a lot older than some of the other people here, and that when I was younger, I wanted everything now. Of course I was constantly disappointed. At the moment, the future looks brighter than it did two years ago, even if we were winning more games then. Lets hope it looks even brighter a year from now.

 

[kingsnation]

Thanks, but I meant starters from last year. You expect the draftees to play, guys who are 2nd yr & not starting, or maybe even vets coming off of injuries. But, guys from last years draft that started last yr. aren't here.

Guys like Rose, Beasley, Mayo, Westbrook, Love, Gordon, Lopez, Bayless.

Randolf is playing but he didn't start 60 games. As far as I can tell the only players in the top 30 of last yrs draft that are playing in the VSL are JT, Donte, and Randolf.

Gordon, Lopez and Bayless are all playing Summer League this year. Check the rosters on the Summer League pages. Unless, they dropped out like Spencer last minute - they're all going to play.
So, were not the only ones with starters from last year reporting to Summer League.