Voisin: Kings don't need this guy Artest

Kings113 said:
Can't see him going to Golden State given their contracts and crop of youngsters they want to keep (Diogu/Pietrus/Taft). Nor the Lakers (for who? Devean George and someone?). Clippers? who knows.

Crop of youngsters G.S. wants to keep? They don;t want to keep them over Ron Artest I will tell you right now. People throw some ridiculously underpowered "untocuhable" names out there sometimes when you are talking about one of teh ebst in the game.

Dunleavy + one of the kids would probably be a no brainer for them. People forget, Artest is 26. Same age as their other two stars + makes him a perfect fit agewise for a team on the rise.

If the Lakers pulled it off it without involving Odom it would be an absolute coup and would obviously have to involve their young bigs (Mihm, Brown, Bynum) as primary bait + picks and random parts.
 
ONEZERO said:
If you don't want artest on this team(and basically trading our softest player for him), then you really don't want this team to win but rather have peace of mind for yourself because you don't wanna deal with a loose cannon(which I don't even think will be an issue).
so true. and as if the fans actually have to deal with artest. this would be petrie's problem if anything happened.
 
thesanityannex said:
so true. and as if the fans actually have to deal with artest. this would be petrie's problem if anything happened.
And what if an Artest "incident" does happen and its the last straw that leads to a team exit from the city of Sacramento? Petrie won't have to deal with that. For Kings fans that don't live in this region, it may not matter at all to you where the Kings play. To those of us in and around Sacramento, it matters very, very much.
 
Bricklayer said:
Crop of youngsters G.S. wants to keep? They don;t want to keep them over Ron Artest I will tell you right now. People throw some ridiculously underpowered "untocuhable" names out there sometimes when you are talking about one of teh ebst in the game.

Dunleavy + one of the kids would probably be a no brainer for them. People forget, Artest is 26. Same age as their other two stars + makes him a perfect fit agewise for a team on the rise.

If the Lakers pulled it off it without involving Odom it would be an absolute coup and would obviously have to involve their young bigs (Mihm, Brown, Bynum) as primary bait + picks and random parts.

latest laker supposed offer is bynum, george and the miami number 1
 
kennadog said:
And what if an Artest "incident" does happen and its the last straw that leads to a team exit from the city of Sacramento? Petrie won't have to deal with that. For Kings fans that don't live in this region, it may not matter at all to you where the Kings play. To those of us in and around Sacramento, it matters very, very much.
Ron Artest, no matter what he did, could not run the Kings out of town. Screw blaming Finley, lets blame Artest for everything now. Oh wait, he's not even here. This is getting old, and people are getting a little too emotional over this RUMOR. I actually want him to come here more now, just so he could prove people wrong.
 
thesanityannex said:
Ron Artest, no matter what he did, could not run the Kings out of town. Screw blaming Finley, lets blame Artest for everything now. Oh wait, he's not even here. This is getting old, and people are getting a little too emotional over this RUMOR. I actually want him to come here more now, just so he could prove people wrong.
I did not say it would be all his fault. Right now its an accumulation of events that has caused deterioration of relations between the city and the franchise. I just don't like the risk Artest could bring of causing further deterioration. And of course, if he's not here, that can't possibly happen.:rolleyes: Do I think he's likely to end up here? It seems unlikely to me. But no harm in expressing why anybody would or wouldn't want Artest on the Kings.
 
BawLa said:
AV is outta line. Even if Artest came to Sac and went berzerk, he could not turn the Kings into the Blazers. If he blew up, then everyone would realize it was his fault, and we whould ship him out. Much like the Pacers. Watch and see. Once Artest is out, Indy will get back to playin b-ball, and they will be fine. I'll bet they don't become the Blazers.

On the flipside, if we don't take that chance, we have to HOPE that the group we have, whom I love, shoots over 50% every game while the opponent shoots under 40%.

If he blows up, where would we ship him to? Who would want him if he went to one of the teams with the best chemistry and fans in the NBA and still couldn't function like a normal human being? It's not like returning a Christmas gift to Target....

You could also HOPE for a reasonable trade to come forth that would improve us without threatening to blow the team right out of town with a nasty blowup of his.
 
kennadog said:
I did not say it would be all his fault. Right now its an accumulation of events that has caused deterioration of relations between the city and the franchise. I just don't like the risk Artest could bring of causing further deterioration. And of course, if he's not here, that can't possibly happen.:rolleyes: Do I think he's likely to end up here? It seems unlikely to me. But no harm in expressing why anybody would or wouldn't want Artest on the Kings.
What if Artest came here, behaved, played well, and saved the team from having to leave Sacramento? I know, far fetched, but both scenarios are.
 
Warhawk said:
Who would want him if he went to one of the teams with the best chemistry and fans in the NBA and still couldn't function like a normal human being?
Since when does this team have the best chemistry???:confused: :eek:
 
Question to Foretaz




I'm really interested to know what the majority of Pacer fans are thinking of Ron being traded. Does the majority think he is a cancer? Have the majority forgiven him for last years melee? Does the majority want him traded, or do they want him to stay?
 
thesanityannex said:
Question to Foretaz




I'm really interested to know what the majority of Pacer fans are thinking of Ron being traded. Does the majority think he is a cancer? Have the majority forgiven him for last years melee? Does the majority want him traded, or do they want him to stay?

Chekc the Pacers boards -- about 90% wanted hi gone i the wake of the news conferences. A few of them wish it hadn't come to that, bu stil wnat him gone.

Would have said that most of them supported him before this incident, so think its really just a question of he turned against the team, and most of them are fans of the team first.
 
So they basically were "all good" with him up until his asking to be traded?
 
thesanityannex said:
So they basically were "all good" with him up until his asking to be traded?

I don't hang out at Pacers boards, but from the little I know I would have classified them as being in an advanced stage of "Webberness" over Artest. Most were all good and hoping for the best, but there was a sizable minority of full-fledged haters as well.

Could be wrong though. Ask Soup Nazi, he would have the best read on it I think.
 
thesanityannex said:
Question to Foretaz




I'm really interested to know what the majority of Pacer fans are thinking of Ron being traded. Does the majority think he is a cancer? Have the majority forgiven him for last years melee? Does the majority want him traded, or do they want him to stay?


the vast majority had forgiven him for last year, pretty much everyone had opened their minds up to the possibility that things would be different....the ovations he received when he returned this year were thunderous...and right up until the time he did the interview announcing his intentions....he was playing great and everything was remarkably positive where he was concerned...amazing because the team wasnt off to a great start, but he was left out of all criticism...he was deemed pretty much spotless..

what the majority feels now is harder to tell...by online polls and the like it appears a majority-but not a vast majority, probably around 60 percent-feel very jilted...and want him gone...they are angry and feel like he has turned his back on them after they welcomed him back...there definitely is no middle ground-like there was last year...

which i completely understand...there is a tremendous amount of emotional reaction and not necessarily a lot of rational thought....this is born out by the inordinate amount of very aggressive dissenters-almost hate....which again is understandable-considering everything this team has been thru with him....the feeling of rejection is not a good thing...the reality of not being a title contender because of this, when expectations were so high are very difficult to swallow....and its easy to blame him for that as well as dredge up last year and blame him for that as well...see last year, it was easier to rally around him because almost everyone felt like the penalty was too severe...u dont have that dynamic now....

it would be interesting to leave him on the inactive list a while and watch how the team does without him...if they have many games like the game last nite against boston, then u know how fickle fans can be....its possible that sooner or later he could be seen as a savior....

but the only way i see that happening is if the deals are all weak for him and walsh and bird feel like they simply wont give him away....but that doesnt appear to be the case....very, very unlikely...i think hes gone by the weekend if not the first part of the week..anything else would be very surprising...

so yea...alot see him as everything that is wrong with the team-which is very inaccurate and i have a feeling will be born out in the future-though they will probably now blame whatever bad happens on him as well, even though hes gone....hes an easy whipping boy...ill be curious to see how things evolve as some of the emotion wears off and rational thought takes over...ironic isnt it, the very thing that ron did-irrational and emotional reaction to something-is the very thing alot of them are doing as well...but hey....thats life...

but rest assured, theres a percentage of the fan base that is forever scarred...those people that had given him his last chance after last year...those people will forever be anti-ron no matter what happens
 
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thanks for the in depth reply. i think its funny how some non pacer fans think he is such a bad dude, when pacer fans (before trade demand) had welcomed him back and supported him.
 
thesanityannex said:
thanks for the in depth reply. i think its funny how some non pacer fans think he is such a bad dude, when pacer fans (before trade demand) had welcomed him back and supported him.

Well that of course is the nature of fandom -- always overvalue and forgive your own, devalue and pile on the eneny.
 
Bricklayer said:
Well that of course is the nature of fandom -- always overvalue and forgive your own, devalue and pile on the eneny.

yea...its just so subjective...

two weeks from now do a poll of pacer fans...Do u wish ron was still here?

the results would vary greatly, depending on the teams performance between now and then...

right now the factors involved are all about emotional reactions...down the road it will be a bit more objective-that is to say without some of the emotion-but subjective depending on winning or losing...

u guys know how it is....webber is a perfect example....poll right after he was traded....late in the season when u were going into the playoffs...and now, when things are a little down....the results can be all over the place....
 
foretaz said:
yea...its just so subjective...

two weeks from now do a poll of pacer fans...Do u wish ron was still here?

the results would vary greatly, depending on the teams performance between now and then...

right now the factors involved are all about emotional reactions...down the road it will be a bit more objective-that is to say without some of the emotion-but subjective depending on winning or losing...

u guys know how it is....webber is a perfect example....poll right after he was traded....late in the season when u were going into the playoffs...and now, when things are a little down....the results can be all over the place....

You got that right.

A big part of the poll results will depend on who you get in trade and how well they fit in.
 
The same people that stuck up for Artest before the brawl are the same people sticking up for him now. He'll go somewhere, play real hard and then do something incredibly stupid to hurt whatever team he ends up on... again.

Voison is a piece of trash, Grant Napier is a piece of trash, and Ron Artest is the least loyal, brain dead, great basketball player in the NBA.

In his own words, "integrity?? I'm not sure what that means, I'll have to go home and ask my dad." The guy is a straight up moron, but like I said a great basketball player, although I highly doubt he'll be on the court long enough to prove it.( I said the same thing before the brawl) Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice... You're an idiot, it's not like there is a precedent thats been set with this guy or anything, and in case you couldn't figure it out...yes I would trade Peja for him ;).
 
Warhawk said:
If he blows up, where would we ship him to? Who would want him if he went to one of the teams with the best chemistry and fans in the NBA and still couldn't function like a normal human being? It's not like returning a Christmas gift to Target....

You could also HOPE for a reasonable trade to come forth that would improve us without threatening to blow the team right out of town with a nasty blowup of his.

Even if he blows up again, which IMO is highly unlikely, then there will still be an organization that will be willing to take him. During the brawl incident, first he got in Ben Wallace's face. Personally that is a trait that I want on my team. Later a crazy fan instigated the minor incident into a major one. I don't think Ron's reaction was right but I do understand it. He served his time and then comes back. I think he asked for a trade for two reasons. He wanted to escape his demons and start fresh. Also, I'll bet he wanted to call out some people on his team (coaches and players) which means he made the right decision to ask to be traded instead of calling people out (he actually learned from T.O.). Since he has not repeated any of his previous mistakes then there is no valid arguement anyone could make to suggest that he will repeat them if he joined the Kings. It is pointless to speculate that he MIGHT blow up with us because he hasn't.

Why would you want to hope that a perfect player will just magically pop up for us and provide us with the perfect deal. We know there IS such a player and deal available right now. So I ask: Why are we so closed to this deal? And all of you that think that he will ruin the Kings I ask you this: Did you ever stop to think that maybe he could SAVE the Kings from being shipped outta town?
 
Venom said:
I'm currently reading Halberstam's book about Jordan, and the parallels between Kukoc and Peja are staggering. Basically, Kukoc was coddled his entire childhood because he was such a basketball savant. His coaches were afraid to upset such a talent, and so they never challenged him, just showered him with love. When he got to the States, Krause did everything in his power to shield him from criticism, but MJ, Phil, and Scottie tore him apart. Kukoc would go into days long funks for no apparent reason, then have a 20 point game. He constantly complained about playing time, shots, and his treatment from the staff/teammates/fans.

What book is that? Science fiction if you ask me. First of all, Kukoc was not "raised" a basketball player. He played soccer and was discovered at a very late age (for grassroot program) of 15. It is impossible that he was coddled as a basketball player as he was under Bozo Maljkovic (one of the best Euro basketball coaches of all time) and Aca Nikolic (think Yoda with more titles then Phil and Red put together) for the duration of his European career (all with the same team). He was one of the quickest 6'10'' guys you ever saw, fierce competitor and remarkable in almost every aspect of the game. Won at every level prior to going to NBA (national team, national club titles, european club titles).

He was destroyed by gym (building up his body to aslmost twice the "thickness"), lost speed and quickness and was forced into a role. Now the last bit was fine as he was on MJ's team. But you cannot turn European Magic Johnson into a buffed up (for Toni) role player without crashing what you had to begin with.

The only part that I believe is that he complained.

Pedja and Toni have very little in common.
 
BawLa said:
Even if he blows up again, which IMO is highly unlikely, then there will still be an organization that will be willing to take him. During the brawl incident, first he got in Ben Wallace's face. Personally that is a trait that I want on my team. Later a crazy fan instigated the minor incident into a major one. I don't think Ron's reaction was right but I do understand it. He served his time and then comes back. I think he asked for a trade for two reasons. He wanted to escape his demons and start fresh. Also, I'll bet he wanted to call out some people on his team (coaches and players) which means he made the right decision to ask to be traded instead of calling people out (he actually learned from T.O.). Since he has not repeated any of his previous mistakes then there is no valid arguement anyone could make to suggest that he will repeat them if he joined the Kings. It is pointless to speculate that he MIGHT blow up with us because he hasn't.

Why would you want to hope that a perfect player will just magically pop up for us and provide us with the perfect deal. We know there IS such a player and deal available right now. So I ask: Why are we so closed to this deal? And all of you that think that he will ruin the Kings I ask you this: Did you ever stop to think that maybe he could SAVE the Kings from being shipped outta town?
Since he's been blowing up since age 8, why do you think its unlikely to happen again? Heckuva lot more evidence suggesting it will happen again. It was RA that took a minor incident and blew it up into a major one. He didn't even manage to confront the right fan. Sorry, RA's demons travel with him. He did pretty much did call out his coach. I think what he just did was a huge mistake, going to the media with this. A giant slap in the face of fans and a franchise that have put up with every hurtful mistake he's made. I happen to think the odds of him causing problems is greater than the chance of him "saving" any team.
 
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thesanityannex said:
"we" are actually not. Just check the artest for peja poll. more than 50% voted yes.
Well, I could have guessed from the threads that people were sort of split on this.;)
 
kennadog said:
Since he's been blowing up since age 8, why do you think its unlikely to happen again? Heckuva lot more evidence suggesting it will happen again. It was RA that took a minor incident and blew it up into a major one. He didn't even manage to confront the right fan. Sorry, RA's demons travel with him. He did pretty much did call out his coach. I think what he just did was a huge mistake, going to the media with this. A giant slap in the face of fans and a franchise that have put up with every hurtful mistake he's made. I happen to think the odds of him causing problems is greater than the chance of him "saving" any team.
I happen to think kennadog is right.
 
KP said:
I happen to think kennadog is right.
Well if we don't get Artest, I'll never know and won't get to say I told you so.:p (just joking folks) Course, in that case, the people wanting him won't know and won't be able to say I told you so either. Lose-lose situation.;)
 
kennadog said:
Since he's been blowing up since age 8, why do you think its unlikely to happen again? Heckuva lot more evidence suggesting it will happen again. It was RA that took a minor incident and blew it up into a major one. He didn't even manage to confront the right fan. Sorry, RA's demons travel with him. He did pretty much did call out his coach. I think what he just did was a huge mistake, going to the media with this. A giant slap in the face of fans and a franchise that have put up with every hurtful mistake he's made. I happen to think the odds of him causing problems is greater than the chance of him "saving" any team.

Are you Jim Rome? I think it is unlikely because I don't think he will repeat any of his mistakes. Furthermore, I think he makes these mistakes because he is very passionate about basketball. If you can find me those Vegas odds, then I will bet you my life savings. His skills on the court are the only matters of discussion that are not speculation. Similarly, his skills on the court could save SEVERAL teams, hence all of the interest in him. Whomever takes a chance with him will be rewarded and I would rather it be us than the Lakers or Sonics (two likely candidates and rivals).
 
The Contender | Ron Artest : from DimeMag Part 1/2

This is a good read IMO.

DimeMag said:
The Contender | Ron Artest


Ron Artest goes toe to toe with NBA analysts, Hip-Hop haters, and of course, himself. Are you ready for Round 1?

artest2.jpg


Ron Artest is looking for a fight. And if life were literally a battle, as so many wise men attest to, then Ron would be sitting in his corner right now, his eyes fixed across the ring, wondering why life continues to challenge him and why it simply won’t leave him alone.

He fidgets in that corner, incessantly. He makes eye contact, warily. He smiles, elusively, and then lets go of short laughter, right after he sticks you with a poignant comment. Like a jab.

Ron jokes that way. Only you don’t know if he’s joking.

It was more than a year ago that I was here last. I arrived the day before Ron and his Indiana Pacers were set to meet the Detroit Pistons in a grudge match to see who would walk away with the 2004 Eastern Conference Championship. I met Ron at Conseco, followed him through town, sat with him inside his home and listened to his life story. He told me things like how he grew up a somewhat angry child in Queensbridge, New York. I talked to him about his father, a one-time Golden Glover, and about how he reminds himself of his father—but not because Ron, Sr. shares his son’s streak of fiery anger, but because pops was also a good guy. A good athlete. Competitive.

What I remember most is a conversation with Jermaine O’Neal, the Pacers’ other best player. It was O’Neal that told me Ron Artest reminded him of himself. But not because Ron shares Jermaine’s athleticism or good nature. But because Ron can get mad as hell. Sometimes. O’Neal said he’s the same way. “Volatile,” is the word he used. I remember that.

But that was last year. Last spring, last year. And things change. And things, well, they stay the same. Things like Ron Artest’s volatile/serene nature. I notice that as soon as I sit down across from him in his home office. The world may have changed since November 19 of 2004—or, at least, the world of professional basketball—but Ron-Ron remains the same. Honest. Candid. Contradictory. Sincere. I ask him what the hell he’s been up to for 10 months. He’s had a lot of time on his hands.

“That was like two years ago to me,” he replies when I remind him of the last time I was at his crib. Time hasn’t stood still for Ron since he was suspended for the remainder of the season after igniting the infamous Detroit ‘brawl’ that became the sports story of 2004. It was in those moments that the most decisive chapter of Ron’s career was written. No matter what he does he will always be linked to that night, and weighed down by it.

“That chip on [my] shoulder means passion,” Ron says. He’s talking about the same chip he mentioned last year; the one he carries everywhere like an American Express card. “I’m always ready to go to work. I think people tried to calm me down a little bit. But it probably didn’t work. I’m still hungry, still aggressive. But at the same time I’m a little bit wiser now.”

He seemed wiser last year. Before the incident in Detroit, Ron had been a model citizen of Stern City. Techs were minimal, suspensions were non-existent. He was on the verge of being called a leader of his team. And when I sit down and talk with the man who, to many who have never met him, represents all that is in O’Neal’s words, “volatile” about professional sports, I immediately connect with the other side of Ron. The side that seems more peaceful than punishing. He reminds me of a sword: beautiful, honed to perfection, but deadly in the hands of the wrong man, or, in Ron’s case: the wrong mood.

At times it seems like the world is speaking a different language than Ron Artest. It’s like he wants to tell us something, maybe a truth he has worked hard to discover, but we do not understand. And he doesn’t understand us.

I read him a quote, taken from that day’s USA Today. TNT analyst Doug Collins has given his two cents. Ron makes change.

artest4.jpg


“It’s one thing to play passionately, and it’s another thing to play emotionally,” Collins told the paper. “Passion, to me, is love, joy, something that you can sustain. Emotion, first of all, runs out. And secondly, you’re always on the fine line of going too far. If Ron can somehow go from being emotional to just passionate, that would be a huge step.”

Does Ron agree?

“No.”

Why not?

“Because I don’t know what he’s talking about. It could be a good statement. But I don’t know what he’s talking about, not to say that he’s wrong. I don’t know what he’s talking about because I don’t know that language.”

A’ight. I ask him: does he think there’s a difference between emotion and passion?

“Yeah. Tim Duncan is passionate about the game. He doesn’t show too much emotion. People like Doug Collins? He gets a nice quote in the paper—not to say anything bad about him—but he’s still going off the brawl. Nobody’s looking at that year I had before that. So people [are] sayin’: ‘Ron Artest, he gotta play less emotional.’ What are y’all talking about? You *******s. Because I didn’t start no damn fight, you know what I’m sayin’? I was playing ball, with passion, and no emotion that day. It had nothing to do with emotion on the court, so what are these *******s talkin’ about? Not to call ‘em an ******* in a negative way.”

Of course not.

I ask Ron if he doesn’t agree with the Collins quote simply because his emotion is something he doesn’t feel should be traded in.

“It’s already been traded in,” Ron explains. “I traded it in like two seasons ago. These guys are late. They gotta do more research. They’re lazy, they’re getting paid too much money because they’re looking at TV and they’re not doing any research. They need to take a pay cut.”

NBA analysts’ salaries aside, Ron’s talk of “trading in” a part of his persona starts me to thinking about all the things people have traded in just to stay popular, paid, or both. Did Ron sell himself out? Did he stop being the emotive touchstone he was a few years ago to better fit into the system? He tells you the answer is no. And then he brings up a surprising role model.
...
check 2nd part

http://www.dimemag.com/feature.asp?id=2064
 
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