Voisin: Kings don't need this guy Artest

[Warhawk]

In a way, his move was respectable. Had he stayed, knowing he didn't want to play with his team, that becomes a problem.

He's been sane so far, betting on him to go "wild man piston puncher" is a long shot.

It would be respectable to talk with the team about it first and approach it in the off-season.

Sane so far? What, all of 20 games since the brawl? Wow, is that a record for him or something?

 

[kennadog]

I think the man had a sudden urge to change his situation, to start clean. Remember, we agree that he has personified idiotic behavior. So I definitely don't think he went about it the right way. His timing was not good. But he isn't doing this to be convenient for Indy. I just don't think he did it to cause controversy or to pee anyone off.

If you think that he "stabbed" his team in the back because he asked for a trade when they need him then I understand you. But if Ron does not feel like he can move on in Indy, can you understand why he would want trade.

If LeBron James asked to be traded, would you say that he stabbed Cleveland in the back? If LeBron thought the organization wasn't getting it done, or felt like he wouldn't be able to get it done there himself, would you be upset at him for wanting to move? The goal after all, is winning a championship. Granted, LeBron would do it the right way, but LeBron is smarter and has more character than Ron. Unfortunately LeBron isn't on the market. Like Jermaine said, they want people there that want to be there. And Ron obviously does not want to be there anymore. And Indiana has every reason to be concerned. The Eastern Conference is weak and they are not dominating. Change governs the universe.

And besides, Pobody is Nerfect.

I don't think Ron said he wanted to start clean or move on. He wants to go where he can play more offense and be the next Kobe or T-Mac (Its all about Ron.). This from a guy who is the second leading scorer on his team?!!! Or, "maybe the team would be better off without me". Man, that is big-time pouting! Suck it up Ron. Course, its too late now.

If LeBron had done everything Ron has done and asked for a trade the same way Artest has done, yes I would say he stabbed his team in the back. RA could have asked for a trade anytime since his suspension last season. Carlisle didn't all of a sudden become a coach he can't play for this season. (By the way, he doesn't like his boss....boohoo.) Indy may not be dominating the East, but they are still a top contender. If I were Walsh, I'd make sure he did not go to a contender anywhere. If he can single-handedly make some other team a contender (as so many here seem to think), why risk having him bite me in the behind down the road?

Nobody is perfect, but some people are a lot farther from perfect than others. Change does rule the universe, but not necessarily people. People have to choose to change and then really work very hard at it. Ron isn't changing himself with this move, he thinks changing his situation will make him happier. I would have liked to see him show change by being a good team player where is first and then, if he still wanted a trade, ask for it like a man, instead of a pouty teenager. And go to the right people in the organization first, instead of whining to the media.

 

[thesanityannex]

It would be respectable to talk with the team about it first and approach it in the off-season.

Not in my opinion. For him, this needed to be done as soon as possible, otherwise, the team would have suffered more by having him stay. No team wants a guy who feels he doesn't fit in and want to play with them anymore.

I'd like to see how many players in the NBA would want him on their team, I bet the numbers would surprise you.

 

[Warhawk]

I meant BEFORE THE SEASON BEGAN, not to wait another 60+games. Either way, going to the media first is just not the way to conduct yourself like a man. Show respect and talk about it face to face with your team.

OK, I am done with this thread. Obviously some of us disagree on the direction this team needs to take if Peja doesn't sign a reasonable extention. I just hope Petrie makes the best decision possible. Remember, we don't even know if he has proposed this trade and has already been turned down, do we? All hypotheticals at this point.

 

[ONEZERO]

Bawla, the eastern conference is weak??

 

[thesanityannex]

I meant BEFORE THE SEASON BEGAN, not to wait another 60+games.

Ah, gotcha. I thought you meant after this season. Understandable.

 

[ONEZERO]

Damnnnnnnn, this topic has gone crazy....

 

[KP]

Damnnnnnnn, this topic has gone crazy....

And it's still not as crazy as Artest!

 

[BigWaxer]

OK, I am done with this thread. Obviously some of us disagree on the direction this team needs to take if Peja doesn't sign a reasonable extention.

eeeeasy HAWK, Everyone is just fans (fanatics) voicing their opinions, not the end of the world even if there were no sports tomorrow ( HEY WAIT BS, COWBOYS ARE THIS YEARS SB CHAMPS) sorry niners fans time to add another!

 

[slugking50]

And he may not...

The point is that your points based on speculation are no more valid than mine. This isn't about being right or wrong even though it seems like YOU think you are right all the time. Go ahead and change your name to Nostrodamus because you seem to KNOW the future.

I can't tell you that he will or won't go ballistic with any validity. I just want to show you that your speculation leaves no room for change. You assume that because he has made some stupid calls in the past that he will always make stupid calls in the future. The man is an idiot when it comes to decision making and public speaking but to say that he will continue to make mistakes is just as hypothetical as saying he won't. He doesn't wake up in the morning thinking, how many people can I f*** up today.

Your "evidence" is based on the past which will never be the present. People that look to the past and base their thoughts and life on the past will never be able to control their future. Only if your mind is focused on the present will you be able to actively control your future.

I accept your opinion that trading for Ron is a bad idea because of his past but I also agree to disagree. Several players have brought "baggage" to new cities and learned to lose it. We even had/have some of these players. I personally have faith that Adelman would do a much better job of managing Ron than Carlisle did.

Even if he did blow up it wouldn't ruin our organization. Poor management does that. I haven't heard any news of Indiana closing shop for the season. And don't give me that bull about the arena deal. Ron coming to Sac could help the situation because people want to see him play. People want to see if he will tick. He could bring more publicity.

Are you aware that Ron Artest was diagnosed as being Bi-polar? You act like his brain works like "normal" people. It doesn't... at all. Bipolar Disorder is very complex and there is still alot to learn. You combine that with a rough childhood and the NBA lifestyle you have a dangerous mix. Hes a ticking time bomb. Sooner or later, We will here that Artest has been arrested because he snapped and hurt saomebody even worse then he has in the past.

Heres something from The National Institute of Health Website.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/bipolar.cfm

 

[doone]

Do you know who we DO need? Dwayne Wade. Hey, Christmas IS coming up isn't it?

 

[Kings113]

eeeeasy HAWK, Everyone is just fans (fanatics) voicing their opinions, not the end of the world even if there were no sports tomorrow ( HEY WAIT BS, COWBOYS ARE THIS YEARS SB CHAMPS) sorry niners fans time to add another!

I don't think Hawk was intending to be uneasy... the "OK" was just to strengthen/ensure his decision.

 

[Ryle]

Are you aware that Ron Artest was diagnosed as being Bi-polar? You act like his brain works like "normal" people. It doesn't... at all. Bipolar Disorder is very complex and there is still alot to learn. You combine that with a rough childhood and the NBA lifestyle you have a dangerous mix. Hes a ticking time bomb. Sooner or later, We will here that Artest has been arrested because he snapped and hurt saomebody even worse then he has in the past.

Heres something from The National Institute of Health Website.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/bipolar.cfm

He was never "diagnosed" as being bi-polar. People throw that term around like it's no big deal nowadays.

 

[thesanityannex]

Are you aware that Ron Artest was diagnosed as being Bi-polar?

are you aware he has not been diagnosed as being bipolar. what you are doing is called libel.

Hes a ticking time bomb. Sooner or later, We will here that Artest has been arrested because he snapped and hurt saomebody even worse then he has in the past.

really, who told you this, Ms. Cleo? Please, you can say you don't want him here, but to make up crap like this is just wrong.

 

[Kings113]

^^^ Indeed.

 

[BawLa]

Wow. I took the night off and returned to several replies. All of which have valid/semi-valid points. If I started quoting people then this reply would be entirely too long so I will just address the individuals.

First of all I want to say to everyone, DON'T LET THE MEDIA TELL YOU HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT RON ARTEST. I used to hate T.O. for all of the stuff he did, and I definitely disagree with some of his decisions, but I too fell victim to the media's manipulative ways.

If you are anti-Ron then I respect your opinions. However, please don't pick apart every little thing I say to the point where the meaning is lost. Instead, try to see where I'm coming from. Ya'll have to understand that it is much easier to defend Ron's playing ability. We have left that realm and entered the personality realm in this thread. So cut me some slack plz. Even I think he's an ***. It's just that he's an *** I want on my team. You can't spell asset without ***.

Warhawk: When Ron was serving his suspension, he obviously was not thinking of trade. He just wanted to return to the court. 20 games after he returned, he realized he couldn't move on for reasons still unknown. I hate repeating myself, but he did not do this to be convenient to Indy. When I said I didn't want him to change, I meant I want him to maintain his passion. He clearly has to learn better judgement but not change. And I argued that Adelman could do a better job teaching him to exercise good judgement than Carlisle did.

You rant that he stabbed his team in the back, he makes bad calls and need impulse control but then you say you have no ill will towards the man.

I can understand and respect that you don't want Ron here, but don't blow everything out of proportion. The media does a perfect job of that already.

Personalities can be managed. It's a shame that Ron hasn't been managed well throughout his entire life, but I don't see the situation as hopeless. The man is igrnorant, makes stupid calls, etc. etc. but he is hardly the devil reincarnate. If Ron were half as bad as most people make him out to be then he would be out of the NBA.

Since you have said nothing of his physical skills, I assume that you are not arguing his abilities. We need to bring back the oldschool scales and put Ron's playing ability on one side and his ego on the other. I think he could help the Kings win before he could help the Kings lose.

-------------------------

Kennadog: No he didn't say that he wanted to move on. I logically deduced that. Remember, he didn't say why he's doing this. And getting more touches is not the sole reason. If we trade Peja for Ron then Ron will get Peja's touches, which should be enough for him.

Saying the team is better off without him is not pouting. It is a pathetic attempt at justification.

LeBron doesn't owe Cleveland squat. You and many other people seem to think that players have an allegiance to their team for their entire career.
Successful teams create a successful environment that attracts good players and keeps them there.

People move, people and teams move on. Again I hate repeating myself but of course he could have asked for a trade during the suspension. That would have been considerate and convenient. But again that isn't why he's doing this.

The laws of entropy apply to everything, even people.

-----------------------

I don't even want to address the bi-polar issue because it could be false.

 

[BawLa]

Bawla, the eastern conference is weak??

Philly at the top of the Atlantic is .500. Atlantic = weak.

Miami is the only team above .500 in the Southeast.

Detroit is the only good team in the central. All the others that have +.500 records are beating up on the other weak teams in the east.

Go check out the standings and look at the point differential and look at the teams. Detroit and Miami are the only teams that can hang with the West coast teams.

I tried to make this quick. If you still have problems with what I said then we can open up another thread.

 

[slugking50]

are you aware he has not been diagnosed as being bipolar. what you are doing is called libel. really, who told you this, Ms. Cleo? Please, you can say you don't want him here, but to make up crap like this is just wrong.

H was diagosed as bipolar a few years ago. Since then he has had a prescription but he refused to take them because he said they made him nautious. It as only this off season that he started taking them again. Its apparent hs stopped again.

Next your going to tell me he doesnt have a phsychiatrist and does take meds right?

The crap that is just wrong is the people who make all these excuses for him. Its nutz!

 

[captain bill]

Are you aware that Ron Artest was diagnosed as being Bi-polar? You act like his brain works like "normal" people. It doesn't... at all. Bipolar Disorder is very complex and there is still alot to learn. You combine that with a rough childhood and the NBA lifestyle you have a dangerous mix. Hes a ticking time bomb. Sooner or later, We will here that Artest has been arrested because he snapped and hurt saomebody even worse then he has in the past.

Heres something from The National Institute of Health Website.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/bipolar.cfm

If anything, this means you should be more careful about criticizing him. A lot of people can still function with this illness, despite personality changes. And taking medication is not so easy as you try to make it- sound- "making excuses for him is nutz" or whatever you said. If Artest is bipolar, that's something a team should discuss seriously with him- to make sure he takes his pills, and how he can cope with whatever changes come with that. Describing him as a ticking time bomb that doesn't deserve a second chance because of his disease is offensive and hurtful to thousands of people who do function despite mental illness. Consider exactly what you're saying and implying before you just fire off what you think is more artillery to use against Artest.

 

[BigWaxer]

BAWLA : what does that stand for anyway?:

You are making me flip flop again. I feel like a politician on this issue. I think i am not going to claim I am in the middle. I wake up change my mind.

The talent of Artest (aka RA (as is our coach)) is no question. He is a top talent /player in the NBA.

The flipper in my then see's the TO side of him. Philly was ruined this year. No they did not close up shop but the should have.

 

[Kings113]

If anything, this means you should be more careful about criticizing him. A lot of people can still function with this illness, despite personality changes. And taking medication is not so easy as you try to make it- sound- "making excuses for him is nutz" or whatever you said. If Artest is bipolar, that's something a team should discuss seriously with him- to make sure he takes his pills, and how he can cope with whatever changes come with that. Describing him as a ticking time bomb that doesn't deserve a second chance because of his disease is offensive and hurtful to thousands of people who do function despite mental illness. Consider exactly what you're saying and implying before you just fire off what you think is more artillery to use against Artest.

Absolutely agree, and good points.

Also, generally, I've seen a lot of people exaggerate/force/blow things out of proportion when talking about Artest and his incidents.

 

[SacTownKid]

So Ronnie wants to stay in Indy, huh? This guy is unbelievable. I wondered why he wasn't moved yet. Something strange is going on here.

 

[slugking50]

If anything, this means you should be more careful about criticizing him. A lot of people can still function with this illness, despite personality changes. And taking medication is not so easy as you try to make it- sound- "making excuses for him is nutz" or whatever you said. If Artest is bipolar, that's something a team should discuss seriously with him- to make sure he takes his pills, and how he can cope with whatever changes come with that. Describing him as a ticking time bomb that doesn't deserve a second chance because of his disease is offensive and hurtful to thousands of people who do function despite mental illness. Consider exactly what you're saying and implying before you just fire off what you think is more artillery to use against Artest.

I had an xgf who is bipolar. I know the ups and downs. I know you can function with Bipolar. My x does a great job. My point was that If you dont have a stable enviroment and some disapline it is very easy to slip and make very bad decisions. Being a pro athlete is something that I definately wouldnt call stable. Way too much free time.

Given it is my opinion but to me with his past and current sitution I see it as a recipe for disaster. I think with Artest we are way beyond the idea of a second chance. Hes working on chance 4?5?!

 

[Kings113]

So Ronnie wants to stay in Indy, huh? This guy is unbelievable. I wondered why he wasn't moved yet. Something strange is going on here.

Donnie Walsh has already said at least once, he's dealing him, or if he doesn't see an offer he likes, Artest will be placed on the inactive list for the rest of the season.

More about this in the Artest NBA forum thread (the non-locked one, "trade stuff").

 

[VF21]

If anything, this means you should be more careful about criticizing him. A lot of people can still function with this illness, despite personality changes. And taking medication is not so easy as you try to make it- sound- "making excuses for him is nutz" or whatever you said. If Artest is bipolar, that's something a team should discuss seriously with him- to make sure he takes his pills, and how he can cope with whatever changes come with that. Describing him as a ticking time bomb that doesn't deserve a second chance because of his disease is offensive and hurtful to thousands of people who do function despite mental illness. Consider exactly what you're saying and implying before you just fire off what you think is more artillery to use against Artest.

Let's not turn this into a discussion of political correctness.

There's no reason to be "more careful about criticizing" Artest because of a possible mental illness. If anything, it's reason to be more open and honest about the potential for problems.

Describing him as a ticking time bomb that doesn't deserve a second chance because of his disease is offensive and hurtful to thousands of people who do function despite mental illness.

That's simply not necessary. We aren't talking in general terms about the thousands of people who function despite mental illness. We're talking about Ron Artest, who has shown on MORE than one occasion that he can be less than stable.

Please do not turn this into something it was never meant to be.

 

[BawLa]

BAWLA : what does that stand for anyway?:

You are making me flip flop again. I feel like a politician on this issue. I think i am not going to claim I am in the middle. I wake up change my mind.

The talent of Artest (aka RA (as is our coach)) is no question. He is a top talent /player in the NBA.

The flipper in my then see's the TO side of him. Philly was ruined this year. No they did not close up shop but the should have.

Thanks man for being open. I dig your style too. After the Kings/Spurs tonight I am ready to flip flop. Our bench was garbage, and Peja and Bonzi did not shoot well. Yet we only lost by one. The hustle play that we have needed finally showed through, against the defending champs in their house.....Screw Ron Artest. We need to keep workin.

 

[Bonzinator]

Sorry

im new to this forum so started three threads by accident. is there anyway to delete two of them.

 

[floydian]

I am not sure if this is been mentioned yet but it looks like Artest's "bi-polar" disease has kicked in again. In a surprise announcement he said he now wants to stay in Indiana. Go figure. Now I wonder if the Pacers even want him back. The feeling might not be mutual and Artest might still be traded. Here is the complete article:

Agent: Artest wants to remain a Pacer

ESPN.com news service

INDIANAPOLIS -- Ron Artest doesn't want to be traded by the Indiana Pacers after all, his agent says. Artest said last weekend that his past in Indiana haunts him, and he is interested in being traded to the New York Knicks or Cleveland Cavaliers.

But Mark Stevens, Artest's agent, told The Associated Press on Saturday that Artest holds out hope he can remain with the Pacers.

"At this moment, we're not going to put the buggy before the horse," Stevens said. "We're waiting to hear from [Pacers president] Donnie Walsh, the gentleman and scholar that he is, and hope this can be resolved to where there won't have to be a trade."

Teammate Stephen Jackson said Artest called him Friday night, and hopes his teammate will return.

"He wants to play basketball, that's all he wants to do," Jackson said before the Pacers played the New York Knicks. "He wants to play basketball, he wants to win.

"I think he wants to play basketball with us. He loves his teammates, he has no problems with his teammates."

It might be too late. ESPN.com's Chris Sheridan reported Friday that Walsh is "encouraged" by the quality of the offers he has received for Artest, including what he said were at least two proposals involving All-Star caliber players.

Without being specific about any of the 12-15 offers he said he had received, Walsh told ESPN.com he had heard from 20 teams, some of which merely called to ask what Walsh was looking for. Walsh said he was planning to get back to three of those teams to make specific requests.

"I've talked to a lot of teams, discussed myriad types of offers. Some are player for player, some involve first-round draft picks, some involve savings, some involve a combination of those things," Walsh said. "I'm encouraged by some of the things we were offered."

He would not set a timetable for trading Artest, though he did concede: "I'd like to get it behind us, but I don't feel any [time] pressure to do it. I'd like to winnow it down to two or three deals I'd like to do."

Artest triggered a brawl with Detroit Pistons fans in November 2004 and was suspended for 73 games and the playoffs. Walsh said the latest incident was "the last straw of a lot of issues."

Jackson also was suspended for the brawl.

"I almost lost my job for him last year, so that's my friend," Jackson said. "So I respect his decision, whatever he feels, he feels."

Stevens said Walsh told him he is prepared to make Artest inactive with pay for the rest of the season if he can't find a suitable trade.

"I understand the frustration as a general manager, dealing with the past incidents with Ron, and I can understand if he sees fit to do that," Stevens said.

The NBA fined Artest $10,000 Thursday for making public statements detrimental to the NBA.

Artest was a key component on a team expected to challenge for the Eastern Conference crown. He leads the league in steals and is the Pacers' second-leading scorer at 19.4 points a game.

He said he was unhappy playing in coach Rick Carlisle's system. Carlisle said any decision regarding Artest's return would be left up to Walsh and Larry Bird.

"Right now, this is a franchise decision and fortunately for us it's in the hands of Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird, who are two of the best basketball people that there's ever been in this league," Carlisle said. "So they'll decide which is the best way to go.

"We built an entire system around him and Jermaine O'Neal and I'm disappointed because I've been one of his biggest supporters. But this situation has gotten to where it is."

 

[Kings113]

I am not sure if this is been mentioned yet but it looks like Artest's "bi-polar" disease has kicked in again. In a surprise announcement he said he now wants to stay in Indiana. Go figure. Now I wonder if the Pacers even want him back. The feeling might not be mutual and Artest might still be traded. Here is the complete article:

Agent: Artest wants to remain a Pacer

ESPN.com news service

INDIANAPOLIS -- Ron Artest doesn't want to be traded by the Indiana Pacers after all, his agent says. Artest said last weekend that his past in Indiana haunts him, and he is interested in being traded to the New York Knicks or Cleveland Cavaliers.

But Mark Stevens, Artest's agent, told The Associated Press on Saturday that Artest holds out hope he can remain with the Pacers.

"At this moment, we're not going to put the buggy before the horse," Stevens said. "We're waiting to hear from [Pacers president] Donnie Walsh, the gentleman and scholar that he is, and hope this can be resolved to where there won't have to be a trade."

Teammate Stephen Jackson said Artest called him Friday night, and hopes his teammate will return.

"He wants to play basketball, that's all he wants to do," Jackson said before the Pacers played the New York Knicks. "He wants to play basketball, he wants to win.

"I think he wants to play basketball with us. He loves his teammates, he has no problems with his teammates."

It might be too late. ESPN.com's Chris Sheridan reported Friday that Walsh is "encouraged" by the quality of the offers he has received for Artest, including what he said were at least two proposals involving All-Star caliber players.

Without being specific about any of the 12-15 offers he said he had received, Walsh told ESPN.com he had heard from 20 teams, some of which merely called to ask what Walsh was looking for. Walsh said he was planning to get back to three of those teams to make specific requests.

"I've talked to a lot of teams, discussed myriad types of offers. Some are player for player, some involve first-round draft picks, some involve savings, some involve a combination of those things," Walsh said. "I'm encouraged by some of the things we were offered."

He would not set a timetable for trading Artest, though he did concede: "I'd like to get it behind us, but I don't feel any [time] pressure to do it. I'd like to winnow it down to two or three deals I'd like to do."

Artest triggered a brawl with Detroit Pistons fans in November 2004 and was suspended for 73 games and the playoffs. Walsh said the latest incident was "the last straw of a lot of issues."

Jackson also was suspended for the brawl.

"I almost lost my job for him last year, so that's my friend," Jackson said. "So I respect his decision, whatever he feels, he feels."

Stevens said Walsh told him he is prepared to make Artest inactive with pay for the rest of the season if he can't find a suitable trade.

"I understand the frustration as a general manager, dealing with the past incidents with Ron, and I can understand if he sees fit to do that," Stevens said.

The NBA fined Artest $10,000 Thursday for making public statements detrimental to the NBA.

Artest was a key component on a team expected to challenge for the Eastern Conference crown. He leads the league in steals and is the Pacers' second-leading scorer at 19.4 points a game.

He said he was unhappy playing in coach Rick Carlisle's system. Carlisle said any decision regarding Artest's return would be left up to Walsh and Larry Bird.

"Right now, this is a franchise decision and fortunately for us it's in the hands of Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird, who are two of the best basketball people that there's ever been in this league," Carlisle said. "So they'll decide which is the best way to go.

"We built an entire system around him and Jermaine O'Neal and I'm disappointed because I've been one of his biggest supporters. But this situation has gotten to where it is."

Yes, this was posted (in the Artest Trade Stuff thread in NBA forum) when it first came out two days ago. Along with the follow-up from Donnie Walsh, Pacers CEO.

 

[thesanityannex]

slugking-


you mind showing us some proof that he is bi-polar?