kingsfan916
Starter
AgreedMr. S£im Citrus said:
Voisin: Kings don't need this guy Artest
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Kris Kros
G-League
The Contender | Ron Artest : from DimeMag Part 2/2
Part 2
Part 2
http://www.dimemag.com/feature.asp?id=2064DimeMag said:“I like how Tim Duncan plays. I like how he just plays hard.”
You blink. It’s like Batman just mentioned his admiration for Superman.
“I remember one time Kevin Garnett was mushing him, and shoving him in the face; and Tim Duncan didn’t do anything, he didn’t react. He just kicked Kevin Garnett’s ***, and won the damn championship. You know what I’m sayin’? That’s gangsta. Everybody can show emotion, dunk on somebody, scream and be real cocky; but Tim Duncan is a…he’s a pimp.”
Ron laughs at his own analogy. Tim Duncan and pink gators go together about as well as Bishop Juan and earth tones. But I get his point. And his contradiction. He strives to be Duncan-esque while at the same time keeping a hold onto that chip on his shoulder; hoping to carry some of the peace he’s found between rounds into the fight itself. Every brotha loves Scarface. But the deadlier cat was Michael Corleone. Would you rather go out with nothin’ but your ‘little friend’, or take out the heads of the five families while you lamp at your godson’s baptism?
“I like the Scarface [comparison] off the court, though,” Ron offers. “I like the image. I want to do a movie, you know what I’m sayin’? Play the bad guy. You know, on the court it’s different. But, I’m not a totally good guy. I’m not like Mr. Goody Two Shoes, you know what I’m sayin’.”
I do know what he’s saying. As a matter of fact, I’m confused as to why he seems to have gotten this backwards. No one has ever accused him of wearing a white hat. They’ve claimed his hats are blacker than Al Sharpton. And they’ve leveled as much hate at him as they have at Reverend Al, exposing Ron’s malevolence in the process, and their own.
But Ron Artest, despite the confusion he may have about his own public perception, is not a man prone to trading in things or condescending to ruling powers. Yet even that conviction, just like the line he draws between passion and emotion, is separated into two actions that bear close resemblance.
“I haven’t really been trying to prove [that I’ve changed] to anybody,” Ron tells me. “I’ve been just trying to show people, if that makes any sense. I’ve been trying to give people different sides of me. I go out my way and do anything to try and be as real as possible. Even when I rap. I rap about clubs, I rap about females. But in an interview I’ma let you know I’m married. It ain’t goin’ down like that. I’m not wildin’ [at] the clubs, I’m not wildin’ out with females. It’s just a song. So it’s not that I’m trying to prove anything to anybody, I’m just trying to show people.”
Show them what, Ron? How you’re not The Man Who Went Into the Stands, but you are? Show them how angry you are and how calm you’ve managed to make that rage? Show them that you’re just a regular person when in reality you’re not? You are one of the League’s gladiators, a man fighting to stay alive, a man fighting to prove himself on court without proving a damn thing to the people who watch you from the stands. You’re the perfect representation of one aspect of your generation: a fighter who could be great, if only you had a great fight.
That’s when I begin to feel a kinship with Ron Artest. The two of us are members of a generation of contenders. Rebels who own a cause that has been commercialized to the point of cliché. And while we wait for a greater fight, when someone steps over a line, we take the fight that is given to us.
“I think it showed people that [they should] stay at ease,” Ron says about the after-effects of the fight in Detroit. “Be easy. I think that night showed people ‘just stay in check. Stay in line. Stay in formation.’ You know what I’m sayin’? So in the future, it won’t happen again. I’m definitely not gonna do that again. But, besides me, the fans [are] not gonna do that again.”
I wonder if some of those fans, the kind who believe that the players’ dignity and humanity comes with the cost of their ticket price, have honestly learned the lessons Artest hopes they have.
“People are going to jail now,” Ron suddenly reveals. “I’m pressing charges now. I didn’t even press charges against that dude. I was about to. But I’m pressing charges now. I want people to go to jail.”
He’s shadow boxing again. The Detroit fan who threw the cup that hit Ron in the chest is just a representative. The incident itself should be locked up, the racism put in chains and the abuse quarantined.
“There was so much going on,” Ron continues, “[that] I forgot to press charges on him. It’s probably too late. But the next time somebody does that, they gotta go to jail. I can’t accept nothing less.”
For the record, Ron doesn’t think he should have been fined or suspended for going into the stands after being provoked. He does think he should have, rightfully, gotten a five-game suspension for attacking a fan. But only because it was the wrong fan. Had he actually laid hands on the guy who did throw the cup then there should have been “no games, no fine.”
Emotion and passion. Show and prove. Ron walks a fine line. He has honest convictions but many of them still seem to be searching for a source. When I ask him about the game itself, he sounds more resolute than he has all day. Basketball, along with family and maybe even his music, holds very few contradictions for Artest. The game remains his home, a place from which he can never be exiled.
“People say basketball was taken away [from me]. Nobody owns [basketball]. Basketball ain’t going nowhere. There needs to be another league anyway.”
What kind of league?
“Another professional league. So more people can get an opportunity. It shouldn’t stop [with the NBA].”
I ask Ron what types of rules he would instill in this new league if it were his to run.
“I’d do similar rules to how they are now in the NBA. I’d learn from what David Stern did. Change a few things. It’d be more aggressive. Because the NBA’s gettin’ a little more soft. [My league] would be ol’school.”
No flagrant fouls?
“Flagrant fouls definitely. Whoever made the [NBA] rules is good.”
He gained weight during his time off. That was the first few months. Then he lost it by playing ball whenever and wherever he could. He also wrote songs. Completed an album. He says he was surprised at how much hate he got for even trying to be a rapper. I remind him of all the ballplayers who have preceded him into the recording booth. Then I realize that this may be a new fight for him. A better one. Maybe he can find his true fight inside the darkness of a studio as opposed the bright lights of an NBA arena. Maybe not.
I ask Ron if he believes the NBA’s reaction to the brawl benefited them in anyway, if the League’s public image was given some shine based on Stern’s deftness at handing out punishments.
“I think it benefited. Corporate sponsors make a lot of money and they want to make money with the people they make money with. If something is messin’ that up … That’s why … I’m tryin’ to get into business too, so I respect their decisions. “
I feel the irony. Artest both chaffs and flourishes in the grip of his own life, under the scrutiny of the public, and the rules of his career. But honesty, by nature, is inconsistent. Nothing is black and white. Ron Artest is both Scarface and Michael Corleone. And the fight we all contend for is fought both during the rounds and between them.
“I’m at that point,” Ron says. I’ve just brought up his Tim Duncan reference again, reminding Ron how he earlier referred to TD as someone he aspired to be like. I discover that, within the space of our interview, Artest has achieved that goal.
“The next level is where it’s second nature. A couple years ago it wasn’t second nature [to be calm], I was thinking about it. Now I’m able to just play and know that no matter what happens I’m not gonna get out of control. I’m still getting better, but, yeah, I’m there already.”
But doesn’t that fall into the territory of appeasement? Has Ron, maybe against his own will, made concessions and adjustments to prove himself? To please those who judge him?
“Nope,” he answers, firmly. “I’m not. They can kiss my ***. All of them. I’m not trying to say ‘hey, please like me.’ Not at all. I never said I was gonna change. What is there to change?”
Nothing. And everything. No, really, nothing. Well, maybe a few things. Everything. Can we start over again?
It’s Ron Artest versus the world. Just like it’s me versus the world. And you. And you, too. It’s all of us, a billion different rings, fighting this fight on an individual basis, knowing and not knowing who our opponent is. Ron has found one key to victory. Realness. Like him or not no one can accuse him of fraud. He has remained, emphatically, himself. Candid to the point of confusion. And when he, like a million other cats before him, pledges his allegiance to the code of keepin’ things real, you can tell that Ron means it.
“I’m tryin’ to do some real ****,” he says. “And it got nothin’ to do with being negative or anything. It’s reality. I can be me and still be a good person.”
I don’t doubt that. In fact, I know that. Ron Artest is a good person. But I fear for him because he has that energy in him, the same energy a generation of Black men have; some of them have found their fight and used their energy to win. Some of them languish in corners. Many of them have left the ring.
I ask Ron one more question. I know that his time in the League has been difficult. Yet he’s only 25 years old. His prime lies in front of him. Will he get there? Will he make it another five, ten years in the NBA?
“That’s gonna be easy,” Ron says.
I believe him. Even though I know it’s not true.
kingsfan916
Starter
As we all know that we cannot win a championship w/ this group. We cannot just keep winning 50 games and lose in first or second round! Geoff needs to take this team somewhere and he needs to change a couple of people so we can be a Playoff team. What is the point of winning 50 games and losing in the 1st round?? I say get Artest and see what happens.
kennadog
Dog On It!
Yes, I hang out on message boards to find out what's going on. (Actually, I don't like Rome.)BawLa said:
Ron's history of therapy (anger managment) and medications since childhood is quite well documented. RA makes no secret of it. He is not making mistakes just becasue he's passionate about basketball.
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
There are other options...Artest is just the toughest/best upgrade, both for energy, aggresiveness and defense...not to mention he has the whole package offensively. I still think Loul Deng would be the best LONG term upgrade for us(not that he wouldnt contribute at a high level now)...but thats just me.kennadog said:
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playmaker0017
Guest
bigbadred00 said:
You'd be suprised how a player like Artest can change the whole concept of a team and the style they play.
It only takes a force to try to exert effort on defense and people WILL follow.
Reef has played pretty admirably in the post for stretches, but seems to lose focus for a QTR every game. But, with a guy like Artest giving full effort, I think it inspires Reef to do the same.
I think it inspires the team.
You do this trade and hope for the best. If it fails, you can always move him for 3 solid bench players.
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playmaker0017
Guest
sloter said:
Probably a lot more traditional.
Watch the games, we are playing less and less Princeton by the hour and playing better and better as a team.
I hope not. Offensive only teams go no where.
BawLa said:
No, he may find all new and creative ways to blow up the next team he is on.
The guy has a great knack for playing well in stretches and then going ballistic. What evidence do you have that he's not going to do something again? All you have is a guess you are pulling out of the air based on wishful thinking. All we have to go on is his well-established record, the latest incident of which is only a few days old. Why do you think you are right all of a sudden? Not a guess or supposition or hypothetical. What evidence gives you any reason to expect more out of Ron?
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playmaker0017
Guest
Warhawk said:
Yes, ESPN misquotes people ALL THE TIME. As does almost EVERY media power in the world.
They quote what was said, but leave out important words in place of '...' or use the sentence out of context.
I know plenty of people who have gotten that treatment - Shareef himself got that treatment. Bonzi got it here in Sacramento.
Is it really hard to believe? And once one media company says it ... no one want to be scooped so they say it too. It's vicious.
Whether or not I believe Ron Artest's side or the media ... I dunno. I don't care, really.
Ron Artest in full crazy mode is still a more valuable asset than Bonzi Wells. Trade Ron in the off-season if he doesn't work and you can get a pick and some solid players.
playmaker0017 said:
Easy to say, but I have not seen ESPN be forced to retract quotes, which they would if they were doing it.
And, if you recall, because of the Bonzi incident the paper published a retraction and because of errors in the Bee the editor was on Sportsline last night apologizing. When people get misquoted, corrections are made.
Ron's statements in the article are his voluntary corrections to statements he made earlier. So, in effect, Ron was saying he misquoted his feelings and these were his better answers after some reflection.
So, are you now saying that Ron's statements he made were misquoting himself? Read the headline again:
Artest: Request came out the 'wrong way'
What "context" is missing in the article? The article is almost entirely quotes from him.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1920455
What "side" of Artest's are you referring to? The entire article is printing Artest's "side".
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playmaker0017
Guest
Warhawk said:
Correct. Sometimes this happens - but by then the damage is done. Most people hear the bad and don't hear the retraction.
Kind of like Reef's knee. There was never a "failed" examination. But, the media said it and ran with it. There were QUESTIONS that aroused were used to try to barter Reef to a shorter contract, but he never FAILED.
I remember guys getting misquoted and being pissed in locker rooms, but the damage was done. The paper can retract it, but more people will rmeember the sensationalism than the truth.
Did you read my post? I said I don't really know or care one way or another about Ron Artest's statements. I said I just don't believe the media report news fairly.
playmaker0017 said:
OK, so where is the sensationalism or misquote in the article then? You can cast about empty accusations of "misquotes", but the entire article is about Artest correcting previous statements HE made, not correcting misquotes by the media.
Reef's response to the accusations were well published and widely spread and discussed, and the Kings released their own statement about the health of his knee. The media did it's job reporting the statements by NJ and then by following up with Reef's reply and the Kings' examination results. If you should be mad at anyone, it should be NJ for trying to pull one over on Reef.
For someone who doesn't "really know or care one way or another about Ron Artest's statements", you sure seem to defend your point of view, that the media is all wet on this one. If you don't care, why do you continue to post about it?
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Real_fan
Prospect
Peja means so much to this team, i mean we run our entire offense for the guy, but when you do that (run whole offense for one guy) they should come up big for you. And we all know Peja hasn't been coming up at all. It's simple he's not happy. And like we all know he'll just demand too much money.
So it's this simple, Bird (the guy calling the shots for the pacers) has wanted peja for quite a while now. Twice last year! This means the pacers want peja the most.
I say we trade peja for artest because 20 teams have already expressed intrest in artest. This means we could have any one of 20 small forwards. I also agree with the concensus that a Luol Deng is in order. A solid rebounder with athletic ability.
So it's this simple, Bird (the guy calling the shots for the pacers) has wanted peja for quite a while now. Twice last year! This means the pacers want peja the most.
I say we trade peja for artest because 20 teams have already expressed intrest in artest. This means we could have any one of 20 small forwards. I also agree with the concensus that a Luol Deng is in order. A solid rebounder with athletic ability.
BawLa
Starter
Warhawk said:
And he may not...
The point is that your points based on speculation are no more valid than mine. This isn't about being right or wrong even though it seems like YOU think you are right all the time. Go ahead and change your name to Nostrodamus because you seem to KNOW the future.
I can't tell you that he will or won't go ballistic with any validity. I just want to show you that your speculation leaves no room for change. You assume that because he has made some stupid calls in the past that he will always make stupid calls in the future. The man is an idiot when it comes to decision making and public speaking but to say that he will continue to make mistakes is just as hypothetical as saying he won't. He doesn't wake up in the morning thinking, how many people can I f*** up today.
Your "evidence" is based on the past which will never be the present. People that look to the past and base their thoughts and life on the past will never be able to control their future. Only if your mind is focused on the present will you be able to actively control your future.
I accept your opinion that trading for Ron is a bad idea because of his past but I also agree to disagree. Several players have brought "baggage" to new cities and learned to lose it. We even had/have some of these players. I personally have faith that Adelman would do a much better job of managing Ron than Carlisle did.
Even if he did blow up it wouldn't ruin our organization. Poor management does that. I haven't heard any news of Indiana closing shop for the season. And don't give me that bull about the arena deal. Ron coming to Sac could help the situation because people want to see him play. People want to see if he will tick. He could bring more publicity.
I'm not Christian but I do believe in learning to forgive and forget. And at least my wishful thinking is positive where yours is negative.
BTW I am enjoying our conversation, so please don't take any of this philosophical banter personally.
Real_fan
Prospect
BawLa "This isn't about being right or wrong even though it seems like YOU think you are right all the time. Go ahead and change your name to Nostrodamus because you seem to KNOW the future. "
this is you bashing, and i'm not going to post anymore or your ridiculous statments mocking ppl
this is you bashing, and i'm not going to post anymore or your ridiculous statments mocking ppl
BawLa said:
I don't take it personally, I just find it very strange that a person that has PERSONIFIED idiotic behavior in the NBA, with the most recent episode only a couple days old, is expected to come to a new city and do a complete about-face. He has been having problems since he was a child, he has been a problem on every team he has been on, he just stabbed his team in the back a couple days ago, and folks here say, "Well, he wouldn't do anything bad HERE." That is just comical.
I know some folks change. Others do not, and we haven't seen anything recently to change that opinion of him. Less than 20 games (or so) back from a suspended season he's pulling his tricks again and folks are all over his jock to get him here. I just don't understand it. If he didn't like the coach's style, why didn't he say something in preseason and do both himself and his team a favor? Why now, when it causes so many more problem for his team? If he wanted New York, why not say something when NY was making trades and bringing in new players? I just don't get it....
BawLa
Starter
Warhawk said:
It is easier to understand what I'm saying if you're open to it. (not an attack)
I think you don't understand fully what I mean because you think that he "stabbed" his team in the back. I don't see it that way. I think the man had a sudden urge to change his situation, to start clean. Remember, we agree that he has personified idiotic behavior. So I definitely don't think he went about it the right way. His timing was not good. But he isn't doing this to be convenient for Indy. I just don't think he did it to cause controversy or to pee anyone off.
If you think that he "stabbed" his team in the back because he asked for a trade when they need him then I understand you. But if Ron does not feel like he can move on in Indy, can you understand why he would want trade.
If LeBron James asked to be traded, would you say that he stabbed Cleveland in the back? If LeBron thought the organization wasn't getting it done, or felt like he wouldn't be able to get it done there himself, would you be upset at him for wanting to move? The goal after all, is winning a championship. Granted, LeBron would do it the right way, but LeBron is smarter and has more character than Ron. Unfortunately LeBron isn't on the market. Like Jermaine said, they want people there that want to be there. And Ron obviously does not want to be there anymore. And Indiana has every reason to be concerned. The Eastern Conference is weak and they are not dominating.
It seems as though everyone thinks that Ron is a bad apple, and that if he changed, it would be for the better. I think he has made more mistakes than anyone else. It has also been one of those, wrong place at the wrong time things.
I don't think that he would "change" if he came to Sac. I wouldn't want him to. He is only 25, and sooner or later good judgement will come along.
Change governs the universe.
And besides, Pobody is Nerfect.
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BawLa said:
One can only hope. I think we all know, unfortunately, at least one person - public life or private - who had everything going for them as far as ability, talent, etc. and yet his/her bad judgment simply kept them from ever reaching their full potential.
I wish Ron Artest well.
BawLa said:
When you help cause a riot and the team defends you 100% when you get suspended for a year and then 20 games into the next season you demand a trade out of the blue, that is stabbing your team in the back. However you look at it, gloss over it, whitewash it, it is stabbing your team in the back. If you don't want to be there, ask for an offseason move, don't lead your team on by playing for almost 1/4 of the year and then spring it on them.
If he came here I'd want him to change. No missing team flights. No throwing TVs. No assaulting fans, especially innocent ones. No midseason trade demands. No taking time off to go home and relax because you've been "busy". But I guess that's just my interpretation of what kind of player I want in a Kings' uni. Your mileage may vary.
You see poor timing. I see a guy who has no impulse control and does not care if the team is hurt as long as he gets to do what he wants. Well, I guess if he wants it, that's the way it should be, right? Go right to the media and don't discuss it with the coach or GM first? Damn the team's needs, as long as his personal needs are met?
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thesanityannex
Guest
Many athletes have checkered pasts, some worse than Ron's, and they still have had successful careers. I don't care about his personal flaws, I care about the stats he could put up for this team. He would only bring more media attention (good and bad) and revenue to this team, which we all know this team needs right now. I can't see how you are SO SURE he wouldn't work out on this team. Both sides are just speculation, but the side that wants him at least can say he'd help the team once on the court, where as the side that doesn't, fails to realize the benefit if he did stay semi sane.Warhawk said:
thesanityannex said:
I do care about personal flaws on the magnitude of Artest's. As we are witnessing TO's self-destruction for a couple different teams and Artest's seemingly steely determination to follow in those footsteps, I don't know why anyone would want him here. Nobody is SURE about an outcome, but his recent behavior (including the trade demand which blindsided the team and management) is a clear indicator of how he acts and how little regard he actually has for the team. He shows no respect or consideration of anyone else, including the team.
And betting on him staying "semi sane" is a long shot at best....
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thesanityannex
Guest
In a way, his move was respectable. Had he stayed, knowing he didn't want to play with his team, that becomes a problem.Warhawk said:
He's been sane so far, betting on him to go "wild man piston puncher" is a long shot.Warhwak said:
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