HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
exactly
Vlade speaks about WCS, George Karl, etc.
- Thread starter rainmaker
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ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
They tried to squeeze some extra talking points out of him, with questions about Hezonga and what ifs etc. He responed with "the pick was right on the money. I wanted to pick Towns first....and they took him away from me". LOL
A few things...
1. The ability to demand respect from players, coaches, agents, and other executives is one of the most important qualities for a GM to have. I can't fathom Pete or Vivek trying to broker peace between a player and coach who might both end up in the Hall of Fame. But a former player like Vlade, with an imposing 7 foot frame, should at least be able to get them both to the table.
2. Vlade, not Vivek or Karl, is in control of the roster. Having a single executive running the show is a massive improvement over the previous PDA-Mullin-Vivek "brain trust".
3. Vlade says that he Karl agreed on the WCS pick, and reportedly DMC wanted WCS as well. It may not mean much, but after the the past week any common ground seems like a small victory.
And for old time's sake...
1. The ability to demand respect from players, coaches, agents, and other executives is one of the most important qualities for a GM to have. I can't fathom Pete or Vivek trying to broker peace between a player and coach who might both end up in the Hall of Fame. But a former player like Vlade, with an imposing 7 foot frame, should at least be able to get them both to the table.
2. Vlade, not Vivek or Karl, is in control of the roster. Having a single executive running the show is a massive improvement over the previous PDA-Mullin-Vivek "brain trust".
3. Vlade says that he Karl agreed on the WCS pick, and reportedly DMC wanted WCS as well. It may not mean much, but after the the past week any common ground seems like a small victory.
And for old time's sake...
That's the thing, people say, that Draymond is small, but at 6'7" and 230 he has very strong base, a little short with 8'9" reach, but in terms of strength his frame is the same as 6'9", 240 or 6'10", 245.
I'm sure, that Kings analytics department should know simple numbers, that any combination of Rudy, Omri and D-Will as forwards next to Boogie produced defense on par with Wolves all year, all three combinations equally, under any of three coaches, even during that 4 game win streak. In fact during the named win streak Boogie, Rudy and Omri on the floor without other bigs were 124-125 over 111 possessions. All other lineups were 301-257 over 279 possessions or +15 points per 100 possessions.
Everyone also seem to miss "Darren needs help at point guard, because coach sometimes like to play two PGs". This doesn't look like Lawson, since better PG hardly qualifies as "help" and "sometimes", that should've sounded like "improve PG position".
NYKingsfan
Prospect
I loved Vlade as a player. He seems like an honest, funny, good man with definite leadership skills. I was troubled by his Mudiay response, though. I am paraphrasing, but he basically said he doesn't know Mudiay and doesn't draft what he doesn't know. He also viewed it as a minus that Mudiay didn't work out for the Kings. I don't like these responses. It's Vlades job to know everything about Mudiay. Everything! Then you base your evaluation of the player from a point of knowledge and go from there. I also think it is bad precedent if Vlade will not draft players that refuse to work out for the Kings. All that said, lets hope for the best from WCS.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
You said it's Vlade's job to know everything, but yet when Vlade tried to schedule a workout in order to find out everything, Mudiay refused. The last time we took someone we didn't work out we ended up trading him the same season. How can Vlade know everything if Mudiay refused to show it? Mudiay's key to being drafted in the lottery was his mystery, he didn't want to hurt his stock and he didn't want to play for us. Vlade made the only choice he could.
Let's be clear - Mudiay not only refused to work out for the Kings but declined to interview with them as well. Hr didn't attend the draft combine. He had one season in China (and CBA play is notoriously tough to project to the NBA) where he missed half the games due to injury.
Vlade talked about calling up people he knew and trusted around Kentucky basketball for info on WCS but is it realistic to assume he has sources around the Dallas area HS circuit?
Mudiay was a far bigger mystery than Porzingis who has lots more game tape against quality opponents and who put on a private workout that Kings officials attended.
If there was one kid in the top 10 that the Kings really needed to see in person it was Mudiay. To judge his shot, his athleticism, his personality.
i don't think the general message is that if you don't workout for the Kings they won't draft you. This was a special case of a kid being too much of an unknown for Vlade's comfort level. I don't blame him.
Vlade talked about calling up people he knew and trusted around Kentucky basketball for info on WCS but is it realistic to assume he has sources around the Dallas area HS circuit?
Mudiay was a far bigger mystery than Porzingis who has lots more game tape against quality opponents and who put on a private workout that Kings officials attended.
If there was one kid in the top 10 that the Kings really needed to see in person it was Mudiay. To judge his shot, his athleticism, his personality.
i don't think the general message is that if you don't workout for the Kings they won't draft you. This was a special case of a kid being too much of an unknown for Vlade's comfort level. I don't blame him.
MizzouKing
Starter
MAN I love that guy.
Watched the video.....no doubt who is in charge right now. I'm not even sure he is on board with Rudy at the 4 position but in the end, that is going to be Karl's thing. George needs to trust Vlade and then on the court, it's all on GK with no excuses.
As far as Mudiay, would have liked to have had him but I'd like to have WCS AND Mudiay.....we got more than a few holes and now we should become defensively in the paint. Free agency and trades await.
Speaking of trades, they tried to trade in to later 1st round but I'm going to guess that Nik for anyone's pick to get Payne was not good enough. The Stauskas trade value is really low. Hope the kid improves greatly cause we need him to.
As far as Mudiay, would have liked to have had him but I'd like to have WCS AND Mudiay.....we got more than a few holes and now we should become defensively in the paint. Free agency and trades await.
Speaking of trades, they tried to trade in to later 1st round but I'm going to guess that Nik for anyone's pick to get Payne was not good enough. The Stauskas trade value is really low. Hope the kid improves greatly cause we need him to.
Fear the Putin
Starter
Great vid. You can see though that there is obvious high tensions between DMC and Karl, so he's going to have his work cut out for him to try to mend those ties. Whenever they asked questions re that relationship, he suddenly would give block answers and look down.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
George Karl arrived in town thinking he had a newbie patsy owner and a bunch of castoff Denver underlings from his Nuggets days to push around as a front office while he got to play imperial coach/GM.
Now he's suddenly got a 7'1" roadblock in his way putting an end to that hope. Of course there's tension.
fansinceday1
Starter
Vlade killing it with CD and deuce right now.
"Hey vlade, what did you think seeing Ty lawson on video hitting his hooka saying guess I'm going to Sacramento?"
"Uh........ Stupid."
"We all do stupid stuff. He has nothing to do with us"
After seeing his press conference and hearing him with CD I'm fully on board with vlade. He doesn't hold anything back. Love it!!
"Hey vlade, what did you think seeing Ty lawson on video hitting his hooka saying guess I'm going to Sacramento?"
"Uh........ Stupid."
"We all do stupid stuff. He has nothing to do with us"
After seeing his press conference and hearing him with CD I'm fully on board with vlade. He doesn't hold anything back. Love it!!
Jerichoholic
Bench
I don't think we are going to see any decision made during this offseason. Cousins just made it the All-NBA Second Team and Karl is a respected coach with a 3-year deal who has coached here for only 30 games. I think making either move looks really bad right now, this team is embarrassing enough as it is. However I think the first half of next season will be very telling. If things don't go well I could easily see Karl getting fired at that time and Divac finally bringing in the coach that he really wants to save the day. It's a much better look that the fans and players would get behind. Last season we went from Malone to Corbin to Karl. Went from high to low to question mark, but potentially lower because of the relationships. However it feels much better to go from low to high which is what would happen, it's all about perspective.
fansinceday1
Starter
Vlade:
"If you can't get on board, uh.... Gotta go. I don't have the time....."
"If you can't get on board, uh.... Gotta go. I don't have the time....."
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Vlade said he didn't draft Mudiay because "he didn't know about him." Not because he didn't work out of the Kings. You can know a guy's game without having him work out for you. It's a failure of this organization that they didn't know about him. That's their job.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Oh give it a rest. You're willingness to pile on Vlade at every opportunity is weird. We made the right pick for our situation. You not valuing defense doesn't change that.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Your post doesn't address the subject matter of my post. If you want to psychoanalyze then maybe you should start a separate post for that.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Mudiay is a somewhat rare exception. No college tape on him, no Euro tape on him. Only a handful of CBA games due to injury. Then he refused both to workout and interview with us. That's not Vlade's fault. That's likely largely due to our crap reputation which has been well earned.
If it's such a failure, how about producing a list of players this year and in previous years who were as much of an unknown as Mudiay. NCAA players aren't an issue and Vlade likely has as many or more connections/familiarity in Europe than any GM in the business. That covers 99.9% of NBA prospects. This isn't exactly a situation at risk of repeating itself.
I'm not sure why but ever since Vlade's been hired, you've been on a bit of a crusade against him.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
The entire league only had 12 games in the CBA to go off of and some high school footage. That's it. You would select someone only with a minimal work history in a lesser league? Not to mention that he refused an interview and a chance to work out? It's like when a girl tells a guy she's not interested, but the guy ignores her anyway and proceeds to try and "woo" her. Those situations usually don't end up finishing well. When someone tells you no twice, and you have only a minimal playing history, then yes, you skip him. There is no guarantee he will be a star or even a role player. Don't discredit our pick because we didn't draft the guy you wanted.
Who was that in reference to? George, cuz, mudiay?
Kingster
Hall of Famer
The good organizations do their research and know things the bad organizations don't. That's what separates the big boys from the weak sisters. The Kings org had plenty of time to do their homework. There are no excuses in the NBA. Not knowing about Mudiay is a fail, regardless of whether it's Vlade, PDA, Vivek, the Kings scouting staff, or whomever. Will not knowing about Mudiay hurt the Kings? Time will tell on that. Maybe they get bailed out and it doesn't hurt them. Or maybe it haunts them for a long time.
PS I find it so weak (it reminds me of the Kings org) that the focus is on "you just don't like Vlade." Weak, weak, weak. Sounds like a juvenile who wants everyone to love her girlie crush. The cult of personality is the substitute for a logical argument apparently.
Geoff
Starter
What does anyone know about Mudiay, and why should the Kings have drafted him over WCS? Why should they have picked someone who didn't want to be here?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
We can't do another midseason fire. We really can't That's just devastating, and you never get the best guys. Its instability incarnate.
I don't know what the time period is here, but you've got to try to either resolve this in the next few months, or move QUICKLY to resolve it in another way, so that you can get a permanent coach with a full staff and a full training camp. That looks a lot less unstable than another midseason meltdown and change.
Iced Espresso
Starter
LOL at the Mudiay complaints.
1. Guy refuses to go to draft combine
2. Refuses to work out
3. Won't even pick up the phone
4. Only thing you have is hearsay and a couple of videos from China
Reeks of fear to me, fear of honest assessment.
1. Guy refuses to go to draft combine
2. Refuses to work out
3. Won't even pick up the phone
4. Only thing you have is hearsay and a couple of videos from China
Reeks of fear to me, fear of honest assessment.
Iced Espresso
Starter
You're right brick.
Needs to be done before Summer League or we go into the season expecting him to last the entire season.
If I'm Vlade I ask Vivek if he minds spending more money. I watch the Karl situation closely, I call some coaches like Thibs etc and make my decision here soon.
Chubbs
Starter
Gimme a break. Are you actually arguing Vlade doesn't know who mudiay is? That's how you're interpreting that?
He "didn't know about him" could also be interpreted as "I had doubts he's the right guy for this team." You cant believe that Vlade just flat out hadn't heard of Mudiay. That's insane. Mudiay turned down requests. From Vlade. He knew about him. He talked about him specifically in interviews after the draft.
But keep playing up the Vlade doesn't know what he's doing angle.
And explain why 5 other teams (who did know him) passed on mudiay.
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SacKings384
Starter
God how much more refreshing was that instead of "Guys :condescending chuckle: I know how to do my job. I don't know why everyone is mad. We're smart people. There's nothing going on." Upfront and honest. Vlade just put em out on the table.
Iced Espresso
Starter
Yeah it's kind of funny how it goes.
5 teams pass, it is completely logical. But somehow and in some way when it gets to us he just cannot be passed up by some analysts or fans.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Way to dance around the issue. What's weak is generalities like "there's no excuses in the NBA" without the ability to look at the actual individual situation. It'd also be nice if at some point you used a little logic. You're acting like Vlade knew nothing. He'd obviously watch game tape available and knew enough to request both a workout and an interview. Both requests were rejected. So in reality, Vlade wasn't comfortable enough compared to others he knew more about.
Anyway, back to reality. Here's Vlade this morning on KHTK.
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2015/06/26/sacramento-kings-vlade-divac-joins-dave-deuce-and-morgan/
"If you're on board you're more than welcome, if you're not, I have to go, I can't wait".
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