Vlade speaks about WCS, George Karl, etc.

[Bricklayer]

I dunno. A lot of the great bigs didn't pick up the game until their late teens. Cousins played football almost exclusively until age 15. Olajuwon didn't play basketball until age 17. Dirk was an early adopter at age 13, which is about five years after most current players are playing competitively. Blake Griffin developed a jump shot two years ago.

I'm not saying Cauley-Stein is any of those guys, just that you have to throw out the rules of development for big men. The 6'3" guys have so much competition, that they have to have polish and athleticism to stand out at the NCAA level and draw league interest. 7'1" guys can afford to wait because they are walking statistical anomalies who are valuable solely by dint of their genetic makeup. There are an estimated 80 men in the united states between age 20 and 40 who are 7 feet tall or taller. About 1 in 4 of those guys is on an NBA team currently. If one of those 80 also happens to be a very good athlete, you can forgive a lack of polish and just hope that the space between the ears isn't a massive liability (a la Javale.)

It sounds nice in theory, but as with many things I'm standing atop 50 years of history here when I say that's not the way it normally works.

A guy like Joel Emiid COULD become a star, if he ever plays. He took up the game late, and was already flashing star stuff at times as a frosh. And that's the thing. Future stars still flash star stuff, they just don't have polish. WCS never has. And therefore the odds are extremely high he never will. Aside from trying to justify a pick that needs no justification there just is no point in trying to argue that oh, sure just add in a jumper, some post moves, some ball handling, and boom! You could say that about every roleplaying big to ever enter the league. But it just doesn't happen. Nor do we need it to happen. If he can just work on his jumper enough to provide the same space JT does, and then get some chemistry with Darren/however on the Chandler lobs, that's enough. So long as we never do the big stupid with Cuz this is just a roleplayer, and all we need him to do is patch up the roleplayer elements of offense, which legitimately he should have a decent shot at doing. He's not clumsy or uncoordinated. He has mobility.

 

[Gilles]

People are getting greedy.
Would be nice, if WCS added shot, then polished his handles, so that those could withstand some traffic and he could attack aggressive closeouts, put in some work on post game to be able to score on guards, that got stuck on him, he seems to have mindset and solid work ethic to be optimistic, but developing all those little skills would still not make him a star in the sense of having ability to shift defenses. Nah, that's not happening. It won't stop him from being considered, say, 3rd or 4th best player on a contender though.
P.S. Defensive rebounding rate in college is an absolutely unreliable indicator of rebounding ability for pro game. Offensive one is though, and it shows, that WCS is likely going to be not poor, not great, but above average to very good rebounder. One thing he needs to learn though: when the ball is in the air, find the opponent to give a cold shoulder to.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

There was a stat in his DraftExpress scouting video that said he made over half of his jump shots at Kentucky ( a very small sample size, like 22 attempts i believe) and it also said he was 6 of 9 from between 17 feet and the 3pt line. So if he can bring that type of jumper to the NBA that would be AWESOME

 

[The Hammer]

Actually its very much like that. You either have talent, or you don't. And if you do, the odds that you have completely unrealized it goes down exponentially for every year closer to 25 you are.

And guys can pick up certain skills, improve in certain areas, shooting predominantly. you can improve defensively too, although often as not that's just a case of you being a lazy selfish twat at lower levels, and realizing you'd better pick up your effort if you want to stick with the big boys.

But improving your 3pt shot or FT shooting isn't going to make you a star.

Well, maybe not a super star, but if becomes that elite defender, adding a decent offensive game and possibly becoming a very good mid range shooter with the occasional three point threat could make him into an all-star easily.

Also, I don't think we really know his offensive limitations, as his role at Kentucky was very strict and limited on that end.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well, maybe not a super star, but if becomes that elite defender, adding a decent offensive game and possibly becoming a very good mid range shooter with the occasional three point threat could make him into an all-star easily.

See that's the part that seems highly dubious.

WCS was if nothing else very consistent in college. Which is to say he didn't develop much. He was 8.3pts 6.2reb, 6.8pts 6.1reb, 8.9pts 6.4reb in his 3 years. His minutes ranged between 23.6 and 25.9. his Per 40 stats even at the college level were a consistently modest 14-10. And he's got a condition which will probably keep him from ever being a 32-36min fulltime starter type. there is absolutely nothing there at all to suggest an All Star. And I truly don't even understand the fascination in trying to talk a fairly obvious roleplayer into stardom. We didn't draft him to be a star. We don't need him to be a star. He gets to 10pts 7reb with major plus defense we've already gotten everything out of him we signed up for.

 

[The Hammer]

See that's the part that seems highly dubious.

WCS was if nothing else very consistent in college. Which is to say he didn't develop much. He was 8.3pts 6.2reb, 6.8pts 6.1reb, 8.9pts 6.4reb in his 3 years. His minutes ranged between 23.6 and 25.9. his Per 40 stats even at the college level were a consistently modest 14-10. And he's got a condition which will probably keep him from ever being a 32-36min fulltime starter type. there is absolutely nothing there at all to suggest an All Star. And I truly don't even understand the fascination in trying to talk a fairly obvious roleplayer into stardom. We didn't draft him to be a star. We don't need him to be a star. He gets to 10pts 7reb with major plus defense we've already gotten everything out of him we signed up for.

I completely agree with you, and think that this is virtually a lock, even in his rookie year, which is why I love the pick.

But, watching his videos, his personality type is the kind that needs new challenges and growth. So if he's that in his rookie year, he may be that special type of driven player that adds a thing or two to his game that puts him on that role player/mid level star border.

It's one thing to dream about a high risk/high reward type player, but it's a fantastic spot to be in knowing you basically have a sure thing at a big need, and STILL be able to dream a little bit about what he might add to his game. Nothing wrong with that. Kid's got the drive, that's for sure.

Let the people have their dreams, Brick.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Actually its very much like that. You either have talent, or you don't. And if you do, the odds that you have completely unrealized it goes down exponentially for every year closer to 25 you are.

And guys can pick up certain skills, improve in certain areas, shooting predominantly. you can improve defensively too, although often as not that's just a case of you being a lazy selfish twat at lower levels, and realizing you'd better pick up your effort if you want to stick with the big boys.

But improving your 3pt shot or FT shooting isn't going to make you a star.

idk. It worked for Joakim Noah. He was never projected to be what he is, yet if there is one player WCS reminds me of its him. With more athleticism.

 

[Bricklayer]

idk. It worked for Joakim Noah. He was never projected to be what he is, yet if there is one player WCS reminds me of its him. With more athleticism.

?

I think Noah is pretty much what he was supposed to be, except maybe the passing (which is a bit overrated -- Cuz could have averaged 6 assists used that way last year too).

 

[Double-K]

Yea all the smallball talk bothers me. Almost makes me wish George just steps away so we can get Boogie back on board and go away from smallball. But i guess with the right roster who knows, Warriors just won a ring with Draymond at the PF and even playing some Center in the Finals

To be fair, Cavs were still very competitive without Love and Irving.

 

[Kingsguy881]

?

I think Noah is pretty much what he was supposed to be, except maybe the passing (which is a bit overrated -- Cuz could have averaged 6 assists used that way last year too).

Noah was projected to be a rebounding expert with no mid range game and all hustle and motor, iirc.

 

[The_Jamal]

?

I think Noah is pretty much what he was supposed to be, except maybe the passing (which is a bit overrated -- Cuz could have averaged 6 assists used that way last year too).

If WS is a double-double on 55+% TS and being a consistent top 5 defensive anchor in the NBA (although Noah regressed a ton last year), this pick will be absolutely brilliant and WCS will be a star. We can only hope for a Noah type of game from him.

 

[lawlman91]

WCS is the next Olajuwon i have no idea what you guys are talking abt