Vet free agents and filling out the roster
- Thread starter ovrush
- Start date
Kingsfan23
All-Star
They are going to go for both, bad salary-compensation of useful players.
I saw on some site the other day stating that Shaun Livingston would be a good FA target for the Kings. I don't have an opinion on that one but he's surprisingly only 31, has played for a championship team, and is primarily a PG. This site recons he could be had for a reasonable cost and would serve in a mentor role thus not taking too many minutes away from our young PG's.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Livingston and Mack would be my prime targets in FA for the PG position. Once thing about them is that neither are great shooters but both would be steady vets who would make rookies earn any minutes they get.
Rumor is Mills is looking between 12-17
PG: Livingston would be a good get. Phoenix doesn't need R. Price with Bledsoe, Knight and Ulis (besides with meetings set up with Griffin and Milsap they seem to be swinging for the fence). Homerun would be Hill or Mills.
SF: I still would like Mbah a Moute, he is money with the corner 3s now, but could see an option if Orlando doesn't make a good offer to Jeff Green. Homerun would be Iggy or Ingles.
PF: Here is where we should attack the Spurs. I'm pretty sure they try to keep Gasol, but can't keep all three of David Lee, Dedmond and Simmons.
PG: Mills (or Price) Fox, Mason
SG: Hield, Bogs, Malachi
SF: Iggy (or Ingles), Temple, JJ
PF: Skal, Lee, Giles
C: Kosta, WCS, Papa G
PG: Livingston would be a good get. Phoenix doesn't need R. Price with Bledsoe, Knight and Ulis (besides with meetings set up with Griffin and Milsap they seem to be swinging for the fence). Homerun would be Hill or Mills.
SF: I still would like Mbah a Moute, he is money with the corner 3s now, but could see an option if Orlando doesn't make a good offer to Jeff Green. Homerun would be Iggy or Ingles.
PF: Here is where we should attack the Spurs. I'm pretty sure they try to keep Gasol, but can't keep all three of David Lee, Dedmond and Simmons.
PG: Mills (or Price) Fox, Mason
SG: Hield, Bogs, Malachi
SF: Iggy (or Ingles), Temple, JJ
PF: Skal, Lee, Giles
C: Kosta, WCS, Papa G
The Effort Police
Starter
This idea that young players need to ride the pine behind a quality vet for god knows how long is all bunk to me. I've seen no indications that it works any better than the alternative of having a few role player vets being mentors like Temple and company.
How often do you hear "I lost minutes to X and rode the bench for the first several years of my career and I'm a better pro for it"?
How often do you hear "Player X got a change of scenery and is thriving in his new role after being traded because he couldn't get off the bench with Player Y in front of him" instead?
How often do you hear "I lost minutes to X and rode the bench for the first several years of my career and I'm a better pro for it"?
How often do you hear "Player X got a change of scenery and is thriving in his new role after being traded because he couldn't get off the bench with Player Y in front of him" instead?
ParniValjak
All-Star
I have seen plenty of example of it. With the Kings last year take a look at WCS as an example. He rode the pine, worked on his game and then for about a month before Cousins got traded he was the first big off the bench and playing minutes to finish games. Just look at that win against the Cavs as an example, Willie played key minutes in the last quarter and his defense was the key to us winning. That is one example.
Similar with Malachi, Giorgios and Skal! You compare what those kids were like in pre-season games to what they were like when they go the opportunity and that is mainly due to them having the time to put in at practice to work on the things that they needed to work on and they play full games in the D-League, build confidence and then when they started getting minutes after Cousins got traded, they started showing promising signs and in some cases some big games. If people think they would have come straight out and played like they did....well I am lost for words.
And then onto the masters of doing this, the San Antonio Spurs. They are masters and having veterans making youngsters earn their minutes and developing them into very good to great NBA players as a result.
I do believe that the Kings want to go down the San Antonio path. When Vlade took over, he spent some time with the Spurs picking their brains. Now with coach Joerger he has a coach who believes in the same approach and that is competing for everything. He started playing professional basketball as a 16 year old with Partizan who have a system in place similar to the Spurs in that there is hierarchy, defined roles and you are expected to work your way up that hierarchy. This forms culture of hard work, team play and it teaches habits that turn players into winner. I am not against it. In fact I support it. You are dealing with teenagers here. They still have not formed as young men. They need to learn not only about basketball but life in general. When you get once in a generation talent, then you play them but they are not "the man". They are role players, who progress to more as the time passes. That is what great teams do and that is the culture where winning is a habit.
Grant and Doug talked about earning your minutes on the radio today. Said that you can cause drama within the team by starting a guy over another guy even if he routinely gets beat by him in practice.
I get it but if you have two rookies fighting it out for the starting spot, then let the best man win. There's no rule that says you have to earn your minutes against a veteran.
Grant also said that Mudiay has been ruined because they started him right away. Umm Grant, I'm pretty sure he's just not a very good basketball player right now whether he plays starter minutes or backup minutes.
I get it but if you have two rookies fighting it out for the starting spot, then let the best man win. There's no rule that says you have to earn your minutes against a veteran.
Grant also said that Mudiay has been ruined because they started him right away. Umm Grant, I'm pretty sure he's just not a very good basketball player right now whether he plays starter minutes or backup minutes.
roasthawg
Starter
Great post, enjoyed reading it. The Spurs are clearly the organization to mimic if you're the Kings.
ParniValjak
All-Star
I thin Mudiay has talent and so does McLemore but their teams have not done them any favors by handing them the keys straight away. Similar thing can be said about Tyreke Evans who CLEARLY has talent to be an elite lead guard but handing him the keys straight away and doing the whole 20-5-5 thing might have given him the sense of entitlement that has seen him not reach his potential.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Totally agree. And it kind of gives a pass to coaches who may be as concerned about their coaching records as much as long term viability a pass. Youth develop through playing IMO, Ben and Mudiay would've been busts anyhow.
WCS and players like him, that need to be spurred on to playing hard are the exceptions. They can ride pine til they learn to bring it
I think each guy just basically has a big hole in their game that they've never really been able to develop. Mudiay and Tyreke can't shoot and McLemore can't dribble. I don't know if handing them the keys early on has anything to do with any of those problems. Tyreke's shot is a lot better now but his athleticism has taken a major hit with all these injuries. He could have been a really good player if he had a shot when he was with us the first time around. Could have been a Harden lite type player.
Suicide King
Starter
I think Luc Mbah Moute would be a good signing. Declined his 2.3 mil option so he can be had at a reasonable price.
Plays excelent defense. Shot 39% from deep. Would be a good player to fill in at SF as a starter until Justin (whom I like a lot) shows he can take over.
Whatever issue our front office had with his medical report should likely have been put to rest. If he is willing to do what we need of him, and Vlade and Scott can bridge any hard feelings (if they exist), I think he would be an excelent addition.
Plays excelent defense. Shot 39% from deep. Would be a good player to fill in at SF as a starter until Justin (whom I like a lot) shows he can take over.
Whatever issue our front office had with his medical report should likely have been put to rest. If he is willing to do what we need of him, and Vlade and Scott can bridge any hard feelings (if they exist), I think he would be an excelent addition.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Those are all correctable skills but because they got given everything on the platter early, they never really put in enough of the hard work to fix the issue...there was no pressure on them to do so. That is the difference. If you have others competing for their spot, it creates drive because if you don't improve, you don't play!
ParniValjak
All-Star
Hahaha! I think there will be bigger chance of hell freezing over than Spenser Hawes and James Johnson playing for the Kings ever again.
Have you forgotten that incident when the whole team has been sold to Seattle group story was going on and dumb JJ was doing a media scrum in the locker room with Seattle Sonics hat on?!
Hawes and James Johnson are public enemies #1 in Sacramento.
The Hammer
All-Star
The deal is you have to have the right coach to do that.
All last year I was continually impressed that guys would get benched for a while and then come back even more focused and ready. Guys did not sulk on the bench. That takes quality leadership and shows me there's something going on behind the scenes where there's accountability, fairness, competition, communication, integrity.
Yeah, he'll represent dead cap money for the next couple seasons.
Kings should try and get the best players possible at SF and or PF. Bring Lawson back. Make our young guys earn their time. Joerger and his staff just showed everyone how to work in and develop the rookies and with great results.
And they should take advantage of the cap room and land top level FAs when the opportunity presents itself. If they don't get those handful of players, then bring in your quality role playing vets like Temple and Koufos
And they should take advantage of the cap room and land top level FAs when the opportunity presents itself. If they don't get those handful of players, then bring in your quality role playing vets like Temple and Koufos
Under the CBA, the payments being made to a player who is cut before the final season on their contract must be stretched per the stretch provision. However, the salary cap hit can be either taken on schedule with the original contract or made to match the stretched monetary payments, by decision of the team. There seems to be disagreement amongst salary reporting sites as to whether the Kings decided to stretch the Barnes salary cap hit or not, and I have not seen a definitive answer in the media. It's possible that the Kings decided to take the salary cap hit all at once, especially considering that the Barnes cut came after the Boogie trade when we knew that we would be rebuilding and have a lot of cap space.
Hoovtrain
All-Star
jcwkings
All-Star
James Johnson only works in Miami and on a contract year. If we signed him I would fully expect him to gain 25 lbs and be the James Johnson of old.
I have the feeling the Kings will try to spend their caproom like drunken sailors on shore leave. Mostly because I think Vivek is still "trying to win now" and meddling behind the scenes.
I like Millsap. I'm pretty meh on Galinari. I don't want either of them on this Kings team on four year deals at 30+ million or 24+ million respectively.
This is the season to find out what the Kings have in their young guys. It's the season to take on a bad contract or two for future assets and/or overpay solid vets for one year, likely on two year deals with the second not guaranteed.
Yes, you want competition for the kids and guys who can help them be professionals. What you don't want is to park a big money 30+ year old guy in front of them for the next 3 or 4 years.
You don't clap your hands and call the rebuild done when you have four rookies and a promising import that haven't played a single minute in the NBA. You keep collecting assets.
And if some of these kids really DO develop then you have other pieces and assets to trade to fill things in around them.
Paying established vets a ton of money in free agency this summer is just short sighted.
I'm tired of the Kings losing too but at least now they are truly rebuilding and they need to do it right. Trying to quick fix things is a big part of why they've been treading water as a 30 win team for years.
I like Millsap. I'm pretty meh on Galinari. I don't want either of them on this Kings team on four year deals at 30+ million or 24+ million respectively.
This is the season to find out what the Kings have in their young guys. It's the season to take on a bad contract or two for future assets and/or overpay solid vets for one year, likely on two year deals with the second not guaranteed.
Yes, you want competition for the kids and guys who can help them be professionals. What you don't want is to park a big money 30+ year old guy in front of them for the next 3 or 4 years.
You don't clap your hands and call the rebuild done when you have four rookies and a promising import that haven't played a single minute in the NBA. You keep collecting assets.
And if some of these kids really DO develop then you have other pieces and assets to trade to fill things in around them.
Paying established vets a ton of money in free agency this summer is just short sighted.
I'm tired of the Kings losing too but at least now they are truly rebuilding and they need to do it right. Trying to quick fix things is a big part of why they've been treading water as a 30 win team for years.
The Hammer
All-Star
Yes to all.
With one tweak. I think Vlade will be able to handle Vivek's attempts or "suggestions" or whatever.
macadocious
Starter
I am strangely anxious over what may happen tonight (not in a good way). I am right now of the mindset that I don't really want to sign anyone that is available. I think we should let the market shake out, sign a leftover vet or two to a 1 year deal and maybe even overpay a hair and leave some space for either S&T or salary dump for assets.
I'm still baffled that the Blazers didn't use their 15 or 20 to help dump a contract. I think contract dumps are going to be super expensive for team and we could really benefit from that.
I'm still baffled that the Blazers didn't use their 15 or 20 to help dump a contract. I think contract dumps are going to be super expensive for team and we could really benefit from that.
Purposely losing by not signing better players does not help in the young players development.....and this team has an abnormally large amount of 1-2 year players. I'm not advocating paying 4 years for lesser guys but getting a top tier guy on 3 years would be a tremendous help in player development. Splurge on Otto Porter yes, I'd pay Millsap for 3 yrs and a team option, not sure about Galinari, paying 8 mill for a Tayshaun Prince or Farmer or similar player so we can give away PT to the young guys and lose to get a better draft pick is a terrible plan. Young players will be playing meaningless minutes for most if the season
macadocious
Starter
When you have a bad team, with promising young talent (specifically Skal here) you don't sign a big money vet who is going to play 32-35 minutes in front of him. It's asinine. Skal needs more than 13-16 minutes a game (assuming he gets all the other minutes, which he would not). Lets say you do that and Skal becomes a monster like we all hope he will, do you bench Millsap who will be paid 35 Million plus a season on an unmovable contract?
Otto Porter would be ideal but it's very unlikely given that he's restricted and Washington wants to keep him (or S&T him for PG13).
And there IS a middle ground. Collison is a steady vet who can start for now but is also good off the bench. Ditto for guys like Ingles, Patterson, Ilyasova and maybe even Tolliver.
I don't want to see Skal getting 10 mpg behind Millsap for the next three to four years. And you don't pay a guy like Millsap $30+ million a year to play 25 mpg (and $145 million over 4 years) or come off the bench.
You want veterans good enough that the young guys have to work hard to beat them out, not declining all-stars that eat up all the minutes.
KingsFanGER
Starter
You want FA's that fit the playstyle Vlade and Joerger are trying to establish in SAC. And Vlade has been very open about his prefered playstyle - "play uptempo, play together, play defense".
Plain and simple vision, but you need guys, that are able to keep up with the legspeed of our young players. David Lee, Pau Gasol, Joe Ingles, Ilyasova, Mbah a Moute - crafty vets for sure, but not exactly athletic powerhouses able to run up and down the floor.
If we want mentors one guy should be on top of our list and that's Tony Allen. Still athletic enough to play our prefered style of basketball, used to play against much bigger guys at SF, an unselfish player, one of the best defenders over the last 10 years and the heart and soul of a blue collar team. His lack of a jumpshot will hurt his market value and we won't be forced to drastically overpay to get him here. Grizzlies reportedly plan to only offer him the league minimum, which is pretty much an insult after all he did for this team. Most title contenders desperately look for shooters to add around their main ball handlers. I think we have a reasonable chance to add him to our roster and teach our guards and forwards some Grit and Grind, which is much needed with WCS for example, who is standing in his own way with his somewhat "soft" approach.
Allen, Temple and Kosta would be a great vet core of down to earth, hardworking guys.
Plain and simple vision, but you need guys, that are able to keep up with the legspeed of our young players. David Lee, Pau Gasol, Joe Ingles, Ilyasova, Mbah a Moute - crafty vets for sure, but not exactly athletic powerhouses able to run up and down the floor.
If we want mentors one guy should be on top of our list and that's Tony Allen. Still athletic enough to play our prefered style of basketball, used to play against much bigger guys at SF, an unselfish player, one of the best defenders over the last 10 years and the heart and soul of a blue collar team. His lack of a jumpshot will hurt his market value and we won't be forced to drastically overpay to get him here. Grizzlies reportedly plan to only offer him the league minimum, which is pretty much an insult after all he did for this team. Most title contenders desperately look for shooters to add around their main ball handlers. I think we have a reasonable chance to add him to our roster and teach our guards and forwards some Grit and Grind, which is much needed with WCS for example, who is standing in his own way with his somewhat "soft" approach.
Allen, Temple and Kosta would be a great vet core of down to earth, hardworking guys.
Similar threads
