Vet free agents and filling out the roster
- Thread starter ovrush
- Start date
Just a couple thoughts:
1. Unless LeBron gets traded here we are losing a lot of games next year. We don't intentionally need to tank. That will happen automatically. Don't intentionally sabotage your team by passing on quality signings just to get the rooks more playing time.
2. The draft takes care of itself. As we saw this year with the Kings, you can move up in the draft from anywhere.
3. This year it is about developing the youth, and they need good mentors that know how to play the game. I'll leave the decisions on who to bring in up to ownership. Development doesn't necessarily mean starting games or playing the most minutes. I think folks are losing sight of this.
4. Throwing youth to the wolves and expecting good player development are typically mutually exclusive.
5. There is no penalty for meeting the minimum floor salary. Our guys just get the extra $$$ in their paychecks. We don't need to go max someone we don't have to. I'm fine with the young players getting a pay raise that isn't in their contracts if the right FA are not there at a reasonable price (for Sacramento).
1. Unless LeBron gets traded here we are losing a lot of games next year. We don't intentionally need to tank. That will happen automatically. Don't intentionally sabotage your team by passing on quality signings just to get the rooks more playing time.
2. The draft takes care of itself. As we saw this year with the Kings, you can move up in the draft from anywhere.
3. This year it is about developing the youth, and they need good mentors that know how to play the game. I'll leave the decisions on who to bring in up to ownership. Development doesn't necessarily mean starting games or playing the most minutes. I think folks are losing sight of this.
4. Throwing youth to the wolves and expecting good player development are typically mutually exclusive.
5. There is no penalty for meeting the minimum floor salary. Our guys just get the extra $$$ in their paychecks. We don't need to go max someone we don't have to. I'm fine with the young players getting a pay raise that isn't in their contracts if the right FA are not there at a reasonable price (for Sacramento).
I just don't understand the line of thinking that we need to sign a bunch of vets this year, still not be able to win enough to make the playoffs but win enough to force ourselves to pick at the back end of the lottery because drafting isn't an exact science. You pick at the beginning of the draft and you get to choose between Griffin, Thabeet and Harden. You pick at the back of the lottery and you get to choose between Jordan Hill, Derozan and Brandon Jennings. Now obviously you can bust in the top 3 picks with Thabeet or you can find an all star at 9 with Derozan but why on earth would you not want to give yourself the higher odds and pick out of the first group than the second? Stop playing checkers and start playing chess. We have no pick in 2019 so we get one more shot at getting ourselves an all star that is in the same age group as the rest of our young core. We aren't signing franchise changing free agents so we need to get them through the draft.
We have the chance to pull off what the Sixers did in just a few years, so lets do it. This isn't tanking, it's strategy. We have no chance at the playoffs this year anyway so it's the perfect time to play the kids and develop them. They're going to lose but it's still going to be entertaining. We're going to be watching an almost complete roster full of young players full of potential. This isn't a tank while we watch Jason Hart, Francisco Garcia, Donte Green, Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes lose. We're going to be watching Fox, Mason, Hield, Bogdan, Malachi, Jackson, Skal, Giles, WCS and Papa. Even if we lose by 20, at least one of those guys is going to have a game that's going to get you excited for the future. After we add what is hopefully another Fox level talent next year, we can start to work our way toward making the playoffs for the next 10 years instead of winning 25-30 games a year like we've been doing for the last 10.
We have the chance to pull off what the Sixers did in just a few years, so lets do it. This isn't tanking, it's strategy. We have no chance at the playoffs this year anyway so it's the perfect time to play the kids and develop them. They're going to lose but it's still going to be entertaining. We're going to be watching an almost complete roster full of young players full of potential. This isn't a tank while we watch Jason Hart, Francisco Garcia, Donte Green, Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes lose. We're going to be watching Fox, Mason, Hield, Bogdan, Malachi, Jackson, Skal, Giles, WCS and Papa. Even if we lose by 20, at least one of those guys is going to have a game that's going to get you excited for the future. After we add what is hopefully another Fox level talent next year, we can start to work our way toward making the playoffs for the next 10 years instead of winning 25-30 games a year like we've been doing for the last 10.
A few of you have all ready said it. The team does not need to go out there and feel obligated to spend big money, that would be a mistake. Just because you have all that capspace does not mean you go and spend it all. Use it for the betterment of the team and continue to give the team flexibility to always make a move to improve. I hope Perry is on Vlade about this. I'm hopeful Vlade realizes this too.
Have to disagree. We are rebuilt except for the vets we get in the next couple of weeks. You get the best vets we can to fill the heeds we have and we go for the win. Will we have the team we need at the start of the season? Who knows, that's part of the fun of playing the game. If not, we adjust. But let's not worry about the adjustments we might have to make, there will be time for that later.
Go for the win? We don't even know what we have in all these young players. For all we know they are all role players and a notch below all-star caliber, that's not going to get it done. It's time to give them a lot of playing time and further evaluate from there to decide which ones to move forward with and which ones can be expendable in a trade for a star player and/or picks.
Why would you assume those would be the vets would/could get? Bogdonovic at 3/30 is probably in the ballpark given the reporting from overseas. The other two are complete unknowns. What if it's Harkless and Davis or Beverly and Ariza along with compensation for the salary dump (i.e. pick(s) in 2019)? Both of those address a need(s) with both of them having a player on his final year and there is reasons for the other team to do it (doesn't mean they will).
Never mind the Beverly and Ariza idea. As Kingsboi already said that ship has sailed.
Never mind the Beverly and Ariza idea. As Kingsboi already said that ship has sailed.
He really got blasted on his way out of Portland (I wasn't really paying attention but thought he hung the Blazers out to dry). Apparently the whole team had to walk on eggshells to cater to him. His ego was so fragile that the team made sure to offer every promotional opportunity to him. He turned a notable NBA campaign down, which Lillard took and then the campaign went national and Lillard's star blew up. Aldridge lost it and held everyone else responsible.
I don't care how much talent he brings to the table, he is exactly what we don't want here.
http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/i...ldridge_is_gone_and_now_the_trail_blazer.html
I don't care how much talent he brings to the table, he is exactly what we don't want here.
http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/i...ldridge_is_gone_and_now_the_trail_blazer.html
Because the post I quoted said we shoud get the best vets we can and I think Gallo is the best vet we could get, Millsap too but because he would be the worst possible singing in my opinion, i wanted to demonstrate the scenario with someone else. Also for vet pg i named Collison because he is the probably most suggested vet pg here by those who wants to win now.
By getting vets in exchange for first round picks I'm all for as I've been saying all along. In my opinion thats the best way to use our cap space. Alltough I dont see Portland dumping Harkless AND giving up a 1st. If they do a salary dump, Leonard will most likely be the one they dump. Also Houston will be rather dumping Ryan Anderson since he gets paid a lot more than Ariza and Beverley plus Ariza is very important for them.
By getting vets in exchange for first round picks I'm all for as I've been saying all along. In my opinion thats the best way to use our cap space. Alltough I dont see Portland dumping Harkless AND giving up a 1st. If they do a salary dump, Leonard will most likely be the one they dump. Also Houston will be rather dumping Ryan Anderson since he gets paid a lot more than Ariza and Beverley plus Ariza is very important for them.
Yeah id agree with that.
We dont need to reinvent the wheel.
We are on that father time clock now. the kids will exponentially get better, and as they do, you work out where you can add to the roster based on their development and perceived strengths/weaknesses.
For now unleash them and let the growing pains separate the men from the boys
We dont need to reinvent the wheel.
We are on that father time clock now. the kids will exponentially get better, and as they do, you work out where you can add to the roster based on their development and perceived strengths/weaknesses.
For now unleash them and let the growing pains separate the men from the boys
Well with the LA Clippers and Houston trade, Beverly and Ariza is not happening. The deal you responded to pshn80 with, I wouldn't do for the reasons you gave. I was trying to show that there were other routes. I wouldn't do Leonard because of the length of the contract preventing him being cut if the roster spot is needed (Davis is an expiring). The Harkless and Davis would depend on how desperate Portland is to shed salary.
As far as the Small Forward position, I would like to add a veteran Small Forward that is on the younger side, that can grow with the rest of the team.
Ideally, I would do a salary dump trade with Portland for Moe Harkless (and a salary dump contract), so I can try and get a 1st round pick out of this. Something that may work would be Moe Harkless and Ed Davis (or Al-Farouq Aminu) which would net us a starting small forward and a back up Power forward and a future 1st round pick. Portland does it to get out of Luxury tax hell in one trade.
There are only 2 free agent small forwards that I think makes sense for the Kings rebuild. Either Tony Snell or Shabazz Muhammad. Both will get paid, probably in the $8-12 mil per year range. Both are still young at 25 or under and can grow with our youngsters.
Bojan Bodanovic may make some sense, being 28 years old. He looks like a player that Vlade may also target.
Some people suggest Joe Ingles, but he is actually a lot older than you may think. He will be 30 years old by the time next season starts. I don't think he fits in our time frame to grow with our youngsters.
I would not overpay too much for any one player, so worse case scenario, we roll with Justin Jackson, Temple, Malichi and Bogdan splitting time at SF.
Ideally, I would do a salary dump trade with Portland for Moe Harkless (and a salary dump contract), so I can try and get a 1st round pick out of this. Something that may work would be Moe Harkless and Ed Davis (or Al-Farouq Aminu) which would net us a starting small forward and a back up Power forward and a future 1st round pick. Portland does it to get out of Luxury tax hell in one trade.
There are only 2 free agent small forwards that I think makes sense for the Kings rebuild. Either Tony Snell or Shabazz Muhammad. Both will get paid, probably in the $8-12 mil per year range. Both are still young at 25 or under and can grow with our youngsters.
Bojan Bodanovic may make some sense, being 28 years old. He looks like a player that Vlade may also target.
Some people suggest Joe Ingles, but he is actually a lot older than you may think. He will be 30 years old by the time next season starts. I don't think he fits in our time frame to grow with our youngsters.
I would not overpay too much for any one player, so worse case scenario, we roll with Justin Jackson, Temple, Malichi and Bogdan splitting time at SF.
I'm starting to think they will roll with Temple as the starting SF unless something really big falls into their laps. There won't be minutes for him at SG. The SF slot is perfect for him this year and the Kings kind of owe it to him based on his effort and character. I think it works out perfectly for what should be the game plan this year.
I really like Ingles but I wish he was 25 instead of nearly 30. Bojan is an alright player but he's not going to make the team much better due to his poor defense. Snell and Muhammad are just not good players and I'd hate to have to pass up on an actual good player in the future because we are stuck with either of them.
I really like Ingles but I wish he was 25 instead of nearly 30. Bojan is an alright player but he's not going to make the team much better due to his poor defense. Snell and Muhammad are just not good players and I'd hate to have to pass up on an actual good player in the future because we are stuck with either of them.
We are so far from being rebuilt its not funny!
If we are lucky, 50% of these young guys on the roster will make it into good NBA player. If we are lucky. Just because we have a bunch of young guys at every position, it does NOT mean that we have rebuilt. Rebuild NEVER happen overnight. Some of these players will become good NBA players. Some might become all-stars. Some will be out of the league in 3-4 years and some will move on to greener pastures.
The team has done well to speed up the process of rebuilding by loading up on the youngsters and seeing who sticks and who doesn't. This team will not be close to the play offs next year regardless of who the Kings sign. Not close. Having the right veteran presence on this team is critical to the development of these young players. Temple is worth his weight in gold for this team. Kosta is handy as a mentor to the bigs but by the trade deadline he becomes a trade chip.
This team will lose a LOT with or without veterans. Trick is to get veterans who are great mentors but that will not help you win a large number of games. This still allows youngsters to compete for their minutes, get enough minutes on court to develop and at the same time learn to compete.
Next season is about learning to compete night in night out in 82 game season for these youngsters. They have all done it at some lower level but they have not done it at the highest level of all. There will be no stars to take away the attention from the opponent off them. They will need to earn everything they get the hard way. This team as currently constructed will win 20-25 games next year. There is no way they sniff the play offs unless they somehow manage to walk away with Curry and Durant from the free agency or get LeBron for nothing with another all-star FA.
There is talent on the roster but that talent needs to develop and that takes time. They will learn to compete next season and once they learn how to do that each and every game, then they will need to learn how to win because there will be MANY games next year where they lose games that they are in position to win.
If we are lucky, 50% of these young guys on the roster will make it into good NBA player. If we are lucky. Just because we have a bunch of young guys at every position, it does NOT mean that we have rebuilt. Rebuild NEVER happen overnight. Some of these players will become good NBA players. Some might become all-stars. Some will be out of the league in 3-4 years and some will move on to greener pastures.
The team has done well to speed up the process of rebuilding by loading up on the youngsters and seeing who sticks and who doesn't. This team will not be close to the play offs next year regardless of who the Kings sign. Not close. Having the right veteran presence on this team is critical to the development of these young players. Temple is worth his weight in gold for this team. Kosta is handy as a mentor to the bigs but by the trade deadline he becomes a trade chip.
This team will lose a LOT with or without veterans. Trick is to get veterans who are great mentors but that will not help you win a large number of games. This still allows youngsters to compete for their minutes, get enough minutes on court to develop and at the same time learn to compete.
Next season is about learning to compete night in night out in 82 game season for these youngsters. They have all done it at some lower level but they have not done it at the highest level of all. There will be no stars to take away the attention from the opponent off them. They will need to earn everything they get the hard way. This team as currently constructed will win 20-25 games next year. There is no way they sniff the play offs unless they somehow manage to walk away with Curry and Durant from the free agency or get LeBron for nothing with another all-star FA.
There is talent on the roster but that talent needs to develop and that takes time. They will learn to compete next season and once they learn how to do that each and every game, then they will need to learn how to win because there will be MANY games next year where they lose games that they are in position to win.
I think this is an option many are forgetting. Temple started and played a lot of games as a SF with Washington before signing with the Kings.
If we can't get a quality SF, I think a bunch of minutes will go to Temple at the position and back filled with spot minutes from Malachi, Bogdan and Justin Jackson.
If we can't get a quality SF, I think a bunch of minutes will go to Temple at the position and back filled with spot minutes from Malachi, Bogdan and Justin Jackson.
I have no trouble with anything you say. After we hire vets in the next weeks we will be rebuilt for the foreseeable future and until we see where the tweaks should be made. Of course we are going to see in the season ahead where we are and how are guys have progressed. But we should not use that as a reason not to hire quality vets where the needs exist, guys that can start and play well and give us and our rooks a grater chance to be in games. It's better for the rooks giving more quality minutes though maybe not as many, better FO team development, better at creating a healthy competitive atmosphere for a growing team. If the rooks can or cannot beat the vets out for quality minutes -so be it. It's all fo the best in the long run. The ones that can develop fast will and those that can't may take more time.
There is a big difference to wanting to load up on 10 day contract level players (tank), and not wanting to sign a well known name (Millsap, LMA, Anderson etc) who are in their primes when the bulk of our team are 1,2 or 3yr (Willie) players.
We can sign guys who know how to teach NBA professionalism without signing ill fitting contracts to mentor and squeeze out 5-10 more wins. We get a year with no draft pick conditions finally (!) then a year when we get no 1st rounder and our 2nd is the lesser of ours and the Bucks.
Patience this offseason pays off for the next decade. Trying to short cut our rebuild will likely mean we are right back here again in 7 years.
We can sign guys who know how to teach NBA professionalism without signing ill fitting contracts to mentor and squeeze out 5-10 more wins. We get a year with no draft pick conditions finally (!) then a year when we get no 1st rounder and our 2nd is the lesser of ours and the Bucks.
Patience this offseason pays off for the next decade. Trying to short cut our rebuild will likely mean we are right back here again in 7 years.
By my count we have 3 legit spots to fill and 2 more project players to stash in the G league.
12 committed so far.
And I'm looking at this roster. And the more I look the more I am having trouble finding what we need. I don't think we commit to a big contract that will likely come with an ego. I would prefer we focus on specialists, preferrably defensive vet specialists.
Let's run with Fox at the one.
Buddy is ready to start at 2.
I want to see Bogdan try the three, if not quite ready to start, start Temple.
Skal take the 4
5 can be covered by KK/WCS/Papa
I don't want a big star coming in here disrupting chemistry thinking it's his team. I want a star or two to emerge from what we have. I want hard nosed vet defenders manning the bench and filling out the roster. If a rook hits a slump... play one of the vets. But screw it, play the kids. It's what the fans want. There is just too much young talent on this roster to not let them play and figure it out.
12 committed so far.
And I'm looking at this roster. And the more I look the more I am having trouble finding what we need. I don't think we commit to a big contract that will likely come with an ego. I would prefer we focus on specialists, preferrably defensive vet specialists.
Let's run with Fox at the one.
Buddy is ready to start at 2.
I want to see Bogdan try the three, if not quite ready to start, start Temple.
Skal take the 4
5 can be covered by KK/WCS/Papa
I don't want a big star coming in here disrupting chemistry thinking it's his team. I want a star or two to emerge from what we have. I want hard nosed vet defenders manning the bench and filling out the roster. If a rook hits a slump... play one of the vets. But screw it, play the kids. It's what the fans want. There is just too much young talent on this roster to not let them play and figure it out.
Yup 40M. Bogdan at 12M gets us to 50M committed. 90M minimum.
Anything under that just gets distributed to the players at the end of the season. Which honestly would be a great thing if it came to that as it would build tremendous good will all around. But likely won't.
At the very least we'll take on a salary dump for draft picks.
Anything under that just gets distributed to the players at the end of the season. Which honestly would be a great thing if it came to that as it would build tremendous good will all around. But likely won't.
At the very least we'll take on a salary dump for draft picks.
Los Angeles Clippers forward Luc Mbah a Moute will decline player option to test unrestricted free-agency, league sources tell ESPN.
– via Twitter ChrisBHaynes
Some names I haven't heard thrown around
PG- Mo Williams, Farmar
SF- Luc Mbah a Moute
PF- Epke Udoh
– via Twitter ChrisBHaynes
Some names I haven't heard thrown around
PG- Mo Williams, Farmar
SF- Luc Mbah a Moute
PF- Epke Udoh
- KK 8,393,000
GT 8,000,000
WCS 3,704,160
BH 3,675,480
GP 2,301,360
MR 1,504,560
SL 1,312,611
DF 4,609,200
JJ 2,365,560
HG 1,859,400
TOT 37,725,361 7 CONTRACTS FROM LAST YR, 3 ROOKIES AT 120% SCALE
DEAD CAP MB 2,133,542
AT 666,667
CB 517,220
AA 500,000
TOT 3,817,429
so with 10 contracts 41,542,790 cap used leaves 57,457,210 to 99mil cap
Bogs 11,428,571 (would be highest paid player!)
Frank-#34 1,200,000 (just a guess)
so thats 54,171,361 12 players Leaves 44,828,639 for 3 last roster slots(34,828,639 to 89Mil Floor)
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Mo Williams is done, no reason to sign him. Jordan Farmar is irrelevant, wasnt even in the league last year, he should be an absolute last resort. Epke Udoh is interesting but he is a C in the NBA. Luc would be an interesting low level signing, but I doubt he signs here after the debacle a couple years ago.
Mbah a Moute would be a fine addition, probably relatively cheap and a short deal. He can come in and not be pushed around by all of the great wings in our league. The current group of true SFs we have would give up 50ppg to the 8-10 SFs in the league so adding a defensive specialist is a must.
Farmar is sufficient as well. I imagine with Joerger as our coach one of Farmar or Luc would start.
Also you cannot expect Justin Jackson/Bogdan/Temple to be able to hang with all of the great 2/3s in this league full time thats just not fair.
Any PG or SF gets a hot hand against us just sic Temple/Luc on them until things calm down.
Farmar is sufficient as well. I imagine with Joerger as our coach one of Farmar or Luc would start.
Also you cannot expect Justin Jackson/Bogdan/Temple to be able to hang with all of the great 2/3s in this league full time thats just not fair.
Any PG or SF gets a hot hand against us just sic Temple/Luc on them until things calm down.
It would be a mistake to just let the kids play without having to earn it. Not only that they will be sacrificial lambs early on and that can effect development and confidence. Its pretty clear what we need. A veteran PG that can start if needed(Collison, Lawson, Mills). A true wing( Gallinari, Igoudala, Mbah Moute, Ingles, Porter). And a stretch 4 type (Ilyasova, Patrick Patterson, Jamychael Green).