Trade for Roy Hibbert in the off season?

[beb0p]

Hibbert has a opt out next season and from the look if it he hates it in Indy would Bird take a chance of loosing him for nothing.

I may have missed it but where is the report that Hibbert hates playing for Indy?

would Bird take a chance of loosing him for nothing.

This is usually the wrong question to ask. The correct question is: would Bird risk losing his job by trading Hibbert or would he play it safe by by risking Hibbert would walk away. Because no one would blame Bird if Hibbert walks. Everyone would blame him if he trades Roy and he helps that team wins. If Bird trades Hibbert, he better be sure the big man will suck for the rest his career.
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[Bricklayer]

I
This is usually the wrong question to ask. The correct question is: would Bird risk losing his job by trading Hibbert or would he play it safe by by risking Hibbert would walk away. Because no one would blame Bird if Hibbert walks. Everyone would blame him if he trades Roy and he helps that team wins. If Bird trades Hibbert, he better be sure the big man will suck for the rest his career.
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I think you might be overestimating Hibbert's current stature. He's more punchline than legend at this point, and for all my interest, there is an uncomfortable element of overpaid scrub getting overhyped because of one big playoff series, reaching for respect...and then coming crashing back down to earth and losing it all just when it was within reach. He's the least productive max player in the league. Having he and Bynum together there is ironic in that way. The real question is just to what degree he is the Indiana defense. If he gets hurt tomorrow does it dissipate? Or do they have enough personnel, and enough of a culture, that he can be swapped out and it will still be stout.

I've looked at Indy's financials for next year and if they really wanted to they should be able to let Turner walk, resign Stephensen, assuming nobody drops a ridiculous offer on him, fill out the roster with minimum contract scrubs, and go at it again while just barely scraping in below the nex luxury tax limit (the unexpectedly large bump was a godsend for them). But they've got major chemistry issues and are one game from imploding in ugly epic fashion leaving a stench in the Indiana air that is not going to dissipate all summer. Hard to see them just shrugging, and saying stuff happens. I would imagine a fairly significant shakeup of some sort is going to take place.

 

[beb0p]

I think you might be overestimating Hibbert's current stature. He's more punchline than legend at this point, and for all my interest, there is an uncomfortable element of overpaid scrub getting overhyped because of one big playoff series, reaching for respect...and then coming crashing back down to earth and losing it all just when it was within reach. He's the least productive max player in the league. Having he and Bynum together there is ironic in that way. The real question is just to what degree he is the Indiana defense. If he gets hurt tomorrow does it dissipate? Or do they have enough personnel, and enough of a culture, that he can be swapped out and it will still be stout.

I've looked at Indy's financials for next year and if they really wanted to they should be able to let Turner walk, resign Stephensen, assuming nobody drops a ridiculous offer on him, fill out the roster with minimum contract scrubs, and go at it again while just barely scraping in below the nex luxury tax limit (the unexpectedly large bump was a godsend for them). But they've got major chemistry issues and are one game from imploding in ugly epic fashion leaving a stench in the Indiana air that is not going to dissipate all summer. Hard to see them just shrugging, and saying stuff happens. I would imagine a fairly significant shakeup of some sort is going to take place.

Again, where is the report that Hibbert dislike Indy?

The Atlanta series highlight the Pacers' need for a better backup center than Ian Mahimmi and an off the bench scorer. I don't think they put all the blame on Hibbert like you guys are doing.

Smart GMs don't jump the gun. Bird is going to be practical and calculating, he is not going to have a fire sale of Hibbert. He may trade his center, but only for something worthwhile.
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[Bricklayer]

Again, where is the report that Hibbert dislike Indy?

The Atlanta series highlight the Pacers' need for a better backup center than Ian Mahimmi and an off the bench scorer. I don't think they put all the blame on Hibbert like you guys are doing.

Smart GMs don't jump the gun. Bird is going to be practical and calculating, he is not going to have a fire sale of Hibbert. He may trade his center, but only for something worthwhile.
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Smart GMS also don't like to be caught holding massive contracts for unproductive players, nor do they take kindly to disintegrating locker rooms and embarrassing collapses. That's how smart GMs become ex-GMs.

And actually, regarding Hibbert: its quite clear he's feuding with somebody/somebodies on the team, and he's pissed at the coach as well. The only question is whether he has a right to be, or whether he's just looking for excuses. Whatever it is, if it were to carry over into next season Hibbert becomes both one of the worst contracts in the league, and very difficult to trade. Of course they may just move whoever is on the other side of the problem. But if that's George, that ain't happening. If its Stephensen...they could let him go, but then where does that leave them? I don't know how its going to play out, but there are all kinds of ways a smart GM could decide replacing Hibbert is the way to go. What they have right now has clearly imploded for some reason, so something has to change. Unproductive max contract guys are going to be a consideration.

 

[beb0p]

Smart GMS also don't like to be caught holding massive contracts for unproductive players, nor do they take kindly to disintegrating locker rooms and embarrassing collapses. That's how smart GMs become ex-GMs.

And actually, regarding Hibbert: its quite clear he's feuding with somebody/somebodies on the team, and he's pissed at the coach as well. The only question is whether he has a right to be, or whether he's just looking for excuses. Whatever it is, if it were to carry over into next season Hibbert becomes both one of the worst contracts in the league, and very difficult to trade. Of course they may just move whoever is on the other side of the problem. But if that's George, that ain't happening. If its Stephensen...they could let him go, but then where does that leave them? I don't know how its going to play out, but there are all kinds of ways a smart GM could decide replacing Hibbert is the way to go. What they have right now has clearly imploded for some reason, so something has to change. Unproductive max contract guys are going to be a consideration.

Ok, so there is no report that Hibbert is unhappy playing for the Pacers. Alright, got it. No, I don't see where he's clearly feuding with somebody. He's having a bad series because he is forced to guard the 3-pt line. That's not exactly a secret, Hibbert always struggles away from the basket. If they make it to the next round and face a more traditional opponent instead of a team with five shooters, then I expect Hibbert to revert back to his old self.

The other side of coin is this: you are witnessing how awful the Pacers is without Hibbert. Why would they want this to be the norm instead of an anomaly for next season? They are not going to trade Hibbert without someone equal to replace him; and even if an equal manifest himself, they may still keep Hibbert because he is the key to their team.

 

[Bricklayer]

Ok, so there is no report that Hibbert is unhappy playing for the Pacers. Alright, got it. No, I don't see where he's clearly feuding with somebody. He's having a bad series because he is forced to guard the 3-pt line. That's not exactly a secret, Hibbert always struggles away from the basket. If they make it to the next round and face a more traditional opponent instead of a team with five shooters, then I expect Hibbert to revert back to his old self.

The other side of coin is this: you are witnessing how awful the Pacers is without Hibbert. Why would they want this to be the norm instead of an anomaly for next season? They are not going to trade Hibbert without someone equal to replace him; and even if an equal manifest himself, they may still keep Hibbert because he is the key to their team.

You are attempting to be argumentative for no reason.

There are DEFINITE reports that Hibbert is unhappy. More than reports. Interviews. On the court, during the regular season, not now, we've seen him get benched. Not talk to the coach. Not even look at him. Accuse his teammates of selfishness. He's not a happy dude. You might be the only person in the country trying to deny what is patently obvious there.

Now whether he likes living in Indianapolis, would like to stay assuming all his desires are met etc., well who knows. But you make a list of Top 20 dudes unhappy with their team/situation right now, he's on it.

And of course just as significantly, the team is very unhappy with HIM. You pay a guy $14mil a year and he starts averaging 8pts 5rebs and tanks when the playoffs roll around, well you need a lot longer run of success than Roy Hibbert has had to not have a question mark floating over your head for the entire offseason.

 

[kingsboi]

Absolutely not. His body language after the trades and bringing Bynum in is inexcusable. I'm not sure what happened but he just went into "don't care" mode and it's obviously hurting his team along with many other factors with that Indy team.

 

[beb0p]

You are attempting to be argumentative for no reason.

There are DEFINITE reports that Hibbert is unhappy. More than reports. Interviews. On the court, during the regular season, not now, we've seen him get benched. Not talk to the coach. Not even look at him. Accuse his teammates of selfishness. He's not a happy dude. You might be the only person in the country trying to deny what is patently obvious there.

Now whether he likes living in Indianapolis, would like to stay assuming all his desires are met etc., well who knows. But you make a list of Top 20 dudes unhappy with their team/situation right now, he's on it.

And of course just as significantly, the team is very unhappy with HIM. You pay a guy $14mil a year and he starts averaging 8pts 5rebs and tanks when the playoffs roll around, well you need a lot longer run of success than Roy Hibbert has had to not have a floating question floating over your head for the entire offseason.

You're getting angry for no reason. If there are reports, show me. That's what I asked for.

Not talk to coach... Not look at him... Playing badly.... Accuse his teammates of being selfish.... Hmm.... let me check. How many players have done that and not get traded??

Let's stick to facts and logic, not rumors and inuendos shall we? Even if he dislike some of his teammates (no evidence of that, the only evidence has him not liking the way they play, not them personally. In order words Hibbert is hating the ball movement, he never said about teammates personally as far as I know), it's a big leap to say he dislike some dudes, let trade him.
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[beb0p]

Absolutely not. His body language after the trades and bringing Bynum in is inexcusable. I'm not sure what happened but he just went into "don't care" mode and it's obviously hurting his team along with many other factors with that Indy team.

What is being said here is very similar to what other fans said about Demarcus Cousins last season.

It's just rumors feeding rumors.

 

[Tetsujin]

You're getting angry for no reason. If there are reports, show me. That's what I asked for.

Not talk to coach... Not look at him... Playing badly.... Accuse his teammates of being selfish.... Hmm.... let me check. How many players have done that and not get traded??

Let's stick to facts and logic, not rumors and inuendos shall we?
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You might be the last person on the face of the planet Earth who doesn't think there is a serious problem brewing in Indiana.

 

[TheBadGuy]

It's pretty obvious that there's an internal problem in their team.

 

[kingsboi]

What is being said here is very similar to what other fans said about Demarcus Cousins last season.

It's just rumors feeding rumors.

I don't see how that applies to what's going on with Hibbert. He was part of a 50+ win team and something happened after the trades where everything went out of sync.

 

[beb0p]

You might be the last person on the face of the planet Earth who doesn't think there is a serious problem brewing in Indiana.

Even there is, it does NOT automatically leads to... TRADE.

That's my point.

You guys know that GMs don't go, Hey there is a personal conflict, let's trade my All Star center. You guys know that's not how things work in the NBA right? A lot has to happen to reach a point where you trade away the anchor of your defense. You guys do know that right?
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[beb0p]

I don't see how that applies to what's going on with Hibbert. He was part of a 50+ win team and something happened after the trades where everything went out of sync.

That's not my point: it's referring to the legions of people who think we should trade Cousins because of "this and that"; never pausing to think if "this and that" is blown out of proportion, is fixable, or why would the Kings give away their franchise player just because of "this and that."
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[Tetsujin]

Even there is, it does NOT automatically leads to... TRADE.

That's my point.

You guys know that GMs don't go, Hey there is a personal conflict, let's trade my All Star center. You guys know that's not how things work in the NBA right? A lot has to happen to reach a point where you trade away the anchor of your defense. You guys do know that right?
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Wow that never occurred to me before. Thank you, oh benevolent educator.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

That's not my point: it's referring to the legions of people who think we should trade Cousins because of "this and that"; never pausing to think if "this and that" is blown out of proportion, is fixable, or why would the Kings give away their franchise player just because of "this and that."
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That's a quaint little sentiment, except that Roy Hibbert is not Indiana's franchise player. There might not be anybody untradeable on the Pacers, but if there is, it ain't him; that's the difference.

Whether or not it's "blown out of proportion" is not the question. Whether or not it's "fixable" is also not the question. The question is, will Larry Bird think fixing it is worth the trouble? Because, if the answer is "no," then the guy he moves forward with is not going to be Roy Hibbert.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Hibbert makes me very nervous right now. It could coach V, bad breaks or some other factor, but the guy is not just floundering, he actually looks disinterested. I'd have to be sure that waas all going to change before I went out on a limb for the guy.

 

[beb0p]

That's a quaint little sentiment, except that Roy Hibbert is not Indiana's franchise player. There might not be anybody untradeable on the Pacers, but if there is, it ain't him; that's the difference.

Paul George and Hibbert are the two most untradeable guys on the Pacers. For obvious reasons.

The question is, will Larry Bird think fixing it is worth the trouble?

Yes, that is the question; but the Pacers were the best team in the league at one point, why wouldn't he think fixing it is worth the trouble?
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[beb0p]

Wow that never occurred to me before. Thank you, oh benevolent educator.

You agree with me, that's a good start.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Paul George and Hibbert are the two most untradeable guys on the Pacers. For obvious reasons.

There is nothing about the notion of Hibbert being untradeable that is remotely "obvious."

Yes, that is the question; but the Pacers were the best team in the league at one point...

No, they had the best record; it's not the same thing. They were never the best team in the league.

... why wouldn't he think fixing it is worth the trouble?

Because he appears to be mentally soft, and disposed to quit on his team. Bird may also determine that, for the money Hibbert's being paid, what he does is not enough to offset what he doesn't do.

 

[beb0p]

There is nothing about the notion of Hibbert being untradeable that is remotely "obvious."

Based on the comments from this thread, it was quite obvious just a short time ago. Since then, the Pacers played below par, rumors started flying, gas poured on fire, and then suddenly it is no longer obvious? Well, actually it's still quite obvious you just have to step back and analyze it subjectively.

No, they had the best record; it's not the same thing. They were never the best team in the league.

Best record, best team; you know what I mean. The Pacers was a very good team and why would Bird think getting back to that level is not worth it?

Because he appears to be mentally soft, and disposed to quit on his team. Bird may also determine that, for the money Hibbert's being paid, what he does is not enough to offset what he doesn't do.

Is Hibbert under performing? Sure. Is he frustrated? Probably. But to say that he quit... that's a loaded charge thus far not backed up by any facts:

Does this sound like a guy who quit? Does this sound like a guy who hates his teammates??

Maybe the dinner put him into good spirits because while on the sideline, Hibbert was the loudest cheerleader — a far cry from the behavior he displayed on April 6 when benched against Atlanta. When Lance Stephenson committed a turnover late in the fourth quarter, Hibbert was the one who pulled his moping teammate back into the huddle and placed his arm around him.

"I've come to understand that the series may not have gone my way in terms of offense and defense, but I'm just going to do my part and hopefully put the team in a position to be able to finish well," Hibbert said. "So if I'm on the court or on the bench, I'm just going to support my teammates, no matter what."

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...rass-takes-roy-hibbert-out-to-dinner/8224567/

 

[Dime Dropper]

Based on the comments from this thread, it was quite obvious just a short time ago. Since then, the Pacers played below par, rumors started flying, gas poured on fire, and then suddenly it is no longer obvious? Well, actually it's still quite obvious you just have to step back and analyze it subjectively.

Well, you're certainly doing that.

 

[CruzDude]

Not even after a week in a Colorado cafe!!

 

[randymoss1881]

Still holding out hope that Indy gets beat bad and hibbert ends up on the trade block. JT/DWill/pick

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Say what? You can't possibly still believe that Hibbert is just sandbagging. That guy's not obfuscating, he's regressing to the mean.

Hibbert is going to make thirty million over the next two years; he is so not worth it.

 

[KingMilz]

Still holding out hope that Indy gets beat bad and hibbert ends up on the trade block. JT/DWill/pick

Take out the pick and yeah unless its a future 2nd round

 

[Livinthedream]

Take out the pick and yeah unless its a future 2nd round

Not even sure it's worth it then. How can you be 7 feet tall and not even luck into a rebound? That is troubling to me.

 

[randymoss1881]

So you guys really font want Hibbert even though he is the best paint defender in the league and we were one of the worst paint defense teams. If definetly take him over Anyone in the draft besides the top 4. Look what Lopez did for Aldridge and our perimeter defense would get better. Also a front court of Hibbert/DMC/Gay is an elite one with Landry/Evans off the bench.

 

[CurseOfTheSalmons]

in a blowout loss to the spurs, frolo grabbed 11 rebounds. in a blowout loss to the wizards, hibbert grabbed 0 boards. he's too slow to be out there with cousins. the transition defense would suck even more than it does now.

 

[KingMilz]

in a blowout loss to the spurs, frolo grabbed 11 rebounds. in a blowout loss to the wizards, hibbert grabbed 0 boards. he's too slow to be out there with cousins. the transition defense would suck even more than it does now.

I think after the series is over the real reason why Roy is not mentally there will come out, I'm not really worried about rebounding I mean JT/Cousins/Reggie are all very good rebounders and where's that got us? Cousins by himself is pretty much enough on the glass if the other person is boxing out and protecting the paint. Only downside with Roy is it would force Cousins away from the rim which is asking for him to go back to his old ways.