Trade for Hibbert - make it happen! (title changed)

Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#31
#31
VF21 said:
Fair enough. BUT how do we know Hibbert would be any happier here? As much as it's a risk for Indiana, I also think it's a risk for us. And I'm not sure the FO is looking to add any more potential for disaster to the roster.
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Our front office is quietly desperate, and has acted like it for a long time. Josh Smith, Rajon Rondo (resign), Kevin Love (resign), Rudy Gay (opt out)...they are all moves with the potential for disaster. But we have been courting it perhaps more than any other front office because we are desperate to turn it around, and we should be. Our desperation and willingness to take on dangerous crap may be our one singular edge. Got a bad contract situation, limited talent base, town major FAs don't want to sign with...but we got our desperation. :)
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#32
#32
Bricklayer said:
Our front office is quietly desperate, and has acted like it for a long time. Josh Smith, Rajon Rondo (resign), Kevin Love (resign), Rudy Gay (opt out)...they are all moves with the potential for disaster. But we have been courting it perhaps more than any other front office because we are desperate to turn it around, and we should be.
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I will continue to agree to disagree with you about the assessment of our front office. I see determination more than desperation.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#33
#33
Okay, just to add a bit of interest to the discussion I just hopped over to PacersDigest, where I found this thread:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?97833-Rumor-Roy-Hibbert-being-shopped-quot-quietly-quot

Interesting to read the Pacer fan reactions.

I hope we find a deal.

Like the guy, but tired of watching him pout everytime he plays horrendously (which is a lot).
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If we trade Hibbert we would need a defensive minded big to come back in the deal. Whether they're a project or not we would need a big, shot blocking presence. Ian as a starter doesn't scare me outside of the fact that he will foul out 1 of every 3 games.

Obviously the hope would be a trade thought brought back some help in the backcourt/wing area as well. But our entire defensive philosophy is around having a great rim protector.
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Unless I missed it, there's no discussion of trading Hibbert to us for the likes of IT/JT.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#34
#34
Oh wait ... I didn't look closely enough:

We could always sign Pau. But I'm afraid that by the time we do whatever it is we're gonna do.... he'll have signed with someone. Other centers we could pursue are.......


Henson and Sanders from Milwaukee (which one do the bucks prize more?)
Dieng in Minnesota (would take a lot to get him I think)
JaVale McGee in Denver
Jason Thompson in Sac (He's 6'11 250, that'll work.)
Andre Blatche in Brooklyn (He's a free agent, and depending on how much we unload salary wise in any Hibbert trade, we could be able to afford Lance back and to add him as well. Another 6'11 dude. Weighted at 260)




West
PG
Blatche/Thompson
Lance
Dragic




My dream scenario would be Blatche or Thompson. Blatche has great offensive skills and foot work for a center. Thompson is good at crashing the boards and doing work under the rim. I am not up on his offensive game though. How is it?
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Be sure and read the thread. There are some Pacer fans who actually think JT would be an upgrade. They maintain JT has suffered from being in a town that never sees the playoffs...
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#35
#35
Fear the Putin said:
Indiana didn't necessarily have many veterans per se.
Granted everyone has their own definition of being a veteran, but only David West really fit that bill. The rest were young guys with Scola and Watson being their longest tenured players.
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He has had other veterans on his team also as a rookie and second year pro, vets such as Danny Granger, Jeff Foster, Rasho
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#36
#36
VF21 said:
Fair enough. BUT how do we know Hibbert would be any happier here? As much as it's a risk for Indiana, I also think it's a risk for us. And I'm not sure the FO is looking to add any more potential for disaster to the roster.
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I may not always agree with PDA's decisions but if there's one thing that I'd say defines his short tenure as the Kings GM it is his willingness to accept risks. Having accepted that Sacramento will not be a destination for premier talent who have some say over where they play, he's turned his sights onto risky acquisitions that he thinks can pay higher dividends with the Kings than they do currently. Certainly that was the mindset in acquiring Gay who was looked at as an unmovable albatross in Toronto.

Hibbert would be a very similar gamble. It's also why I've thought a trade for Larry Sanders was a possibility. And the flirtation with Josh Smith is more of the same.

PDA's Kings are an island of misfit toys that somehow get everything together and make the most of their second (or in some cases) third chance. It's a far different strategy from the "strip it to the studs and rebuild" strategy that some (including me) were hoping he'd espouse but we have to hope it pays dividends.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#37
#37
VF21 said:
Fair enough. BUT how do we know Hibbert would be any happier here? As much as it's a risk for Indiana, I also think it's a risk for us. And I'm not sure the FO is looking to add any more potential for disaster to the roster.
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Its a bit of a risk, bit its only a two year risk. Hibbert's contract is a big pill to swallow right now, but after this year he'll be an expiring, so he'd be easier to move if we were so inclined. So, like Gay, he would be a possible two year experiment. If it works out as well as Gay did, then not to worry.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#39
#39
jdbraver said:
This would not help our perimeter D at all.
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But it would certianly clean up the mess created by it!

That is the beauty of having a shot blocker back there, he covers for multitude of sins created by others around him!

You do this deal all day every day but I doubt Indy couldn't get a better offer
 
J

jdbraver

Guest
#41
#41
c-webb1s#1 said:
yeah i agree,

In certain matchups i could be a blood bath! Im not so sure Cousins is going to be all that great guarding Kevin Love out on the perimeter and then you now rely on the anemic Roy for rebounding!
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And that is why I prefer the josh smith deal. He can do both.
 
c-webb1s#1

c-webb1s#1

Starter
#42
#42
jdbraver said:
And that is why I prefer the josh smith deal. He can do both.
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I think Josh Smith would be fine as well, you just cant have him coming here and taking shots away from cousins and launching 3's. If he can play smart i think he would be perfect! Hes quite the talented player and you now have a potent front court of scorers and solid defenders who can all pass and make a jump shot.
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#43
#43
Čarolija said:
But it would certianly clean up the mess created by it!

That is the beauty of having a shot blocker back there, he covers for multitude of sins created by others around him!

You do this deal all day every day but I doubt Indy couldn't get a better offer
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Of course! I can't believe all the complaining. The team is getting better. It's not perfect and will never be perfect.

As a counter argument to the note you are responding to, as unlikely as it may seem, the defensive minded Malone may help Stauskas and Collison on defense. I hope the only change we make from here on, no matter what the decision with IT, is that we get that defensive big. Then let's allow the team to get to know each other and see if some chemistry develops.
 
J

jdbraver

Guest
#44
#44
This is not complaining it's strategic thought josh smith fits much better at the 4 on this team than hibbert does at the five. Cousins and hibbert would give us two bigs that are laterally challenged
 
Hadlowe

Hadlowe

Starter
#45
#45
jdbraver said:
This would not help our perimeter D at all.
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On the contrary, the key to a strong perimeter defense is a rim protector. Wings/guards are more free to be aggressive on closeouts, passing lanes and ball pressure when they know they have backup inside.

The Kings got burned from deep so often last year because help defenders had to be so keyed on guarding the paint against penetration that they left corners and wings wide open as the lesser of two evils.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#46
#46
jdbraver said:
And that is why I prefer the josh smith deal. He can do both.
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Josh Smith is far from a great fit! He is undersized at PF in the west but probably more importantly offensively he operates largely from the same spots as Rudy Gay! He also will want more shots than Hibbert would!

It could still work out well but its far from a great fit and potentially it could degrade two assets in the process (Gay and Smith)
 
Hoovtrain

Hoovtrain

All-Star
#47
#47
VF21 said:
Fair enough. BUT how do we know Hibbert would be any happier here? As much as it's a risk for Indiana, I also think it's a risk for us. And I'm not sure the FO is looking to add any more potential for disaster to the roster.
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Well he wouldn't have Paul George around sleeping with his wife, so that's a start
 
King Baller

King Baller

All-Star
#48
#48
Dalembert was mobile enough to guard the PF. he guarded the other teams best Big. Last year JT did the same, guarded the other teams best Big. The ideal guy to play next to Cousins has to guard BOTH 4's and 5's. Cousins is the player we do not want in foul trouble. Hibbert is not the guy the Kings need. Unless you want to see Landry and DWill playing lot of PF while Cousins broods on the bench in foul trouble.
 
ShastaKingsFan

ShastaKingsFan

All-Star
#49
#49
King Baller said:
Dalembert was mobile enough to guard the PF. he guarded the other teams best Big. Last year JT did the same, guarded the other teams best Big. The ideal guy to play next to Cousins has to guard BOTH 4's and 5's. Cousins is the player we do not want in foul trouble. Hibbert is not the guy the Kings need. Unless you want to see Landry and DWill playing lot of PF while Cousins broods on the bench in foul trouble.
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Dalembert is a valuable fit that we should have tried to get back on this team
 
J

jdbraver

Guest
#50
#50
Hadlowe said:
On the contrary, the key to a strong perimeter defense is a rim protector. Wings/guards are more free to be aggressive on closeouts, passing lanes and ball pressure when they know they have backup inside.

The Kings got burned from deep so often last year because help defenders had to be so keyed on guarding the paint against penetration that they left corners and wings wide open as the lesser of two evils.
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You may want to go watch the hawks/pacer series again.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#51
#51
yeah, and still who won that?

You don't fear true junkball teams. They are trash. You do fear teams that play inside out with good shooting, ala Miami for instance. And there being able to take away the "inside" can impede the whole offense. In general if you can turn a team into just a bunch of jumpshooters you'll beat them if you can do better on your end of the court.
 
J

jdbraver

Guest
#52
#52
They almost lost to a far inferior team. Put them in the west where we have far better shooters and viola they are at best in the race for 7-8.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#53
#53
jdbraver said:
They almost lost to a far inferior team. Put them in the west where we have far better shooters and viola they are at best in the race for 7-8.
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That's got nothing at all to do with the West's big men running around chucking up threes or whatnot. To the contrary, this is the Conference with ALL the big men playing big. That's why it dominates. The Least is where the smallball frontcourts are able to thrive. Which of these centers is going to pull Hibbert away from the hoop? Lopez, Bogut, Jordan, Pau, Plumlee, Hickson, Favors, Perkins, Dalembert/Chandler, Howard, Duncan, Asik, Pekovic, Cousins, MGasol? Phoenix is the only team that could really try without disrupting its own gameplan. Otherwise our own guy has the best perimeter skills.
 
S

Shabazz916

Guest
#54
#54
this trade... would do wonders for us.. rim protection... our guards can be aggressive. he doesnt need to score.... we have plenty of that.. he will keep cousins out of trouble....
 
J

jdbraver

Guest
#55
#55
Bricklayer said:
That's got nothing at all to do with the West's big men running around chucking up threes or whatnot. To the contrary, this is the Conference with ALL the big men playing big. That's why it dominates. The Least is where the smallball frontcourts are able to thrive. Which of these centers is going to pull Hibbert away from the hoop? Lopez, Bogut, Jordan, Pau, Plumlee, Hickson, Favors, Perkins, Dalembert/Chandler, Howard, Duncan, Asik, Pekovic, Cousins, MGasol? Phoenix is the only team that could really try without disrupting its own gameplan. Otherwise our own guy has the best perimeter skills.
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They will play small when Hibbert is in.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#56
#56
While I genuinely believe that we are looking to add some sort of shot blocker, I don't think we are going to go after Hibbert. I think PDA is open to the idea of playing Cousins at PF but he would want his front court partner to be someone who can guard PFs. Think of Sam Dalembert experiment a few years ago where Sammy was guarding the likes of Dirk, Aldridge ,(at the time good) Amaré, Randolph etc.. and big Cuz was taking the lesser player. If the team could find that sort of player I think they pull the trigger but that type of player is really difficult to find. It explains the interest in Embiid at draft day. He is the the type that could work!

Sanders maybe but there is baggage there that I am not sure we would be willing to take on. There are not many players in the league that are at reasonable age that fit that description. It might explain the interest in Josh Smith. Not a C but a PF who can guard multiple positions and bring some form of shotblocking. He also has some offensive skills to go with it.
 
J

jdbraver

Guest
#59
#59
Remember 3 PTs is worth more than 2. And I'm sure they'll double him hacking and all. He'll be on the bench early in foul trouble.
 
P

Prince_XY

Starter
#60
#60
It is mind boggling to see how a few fans would be so reluctant to gamble on a legit big like Hibbert on Kings uniform when I would be so happy just to see Cousins paired again even with a player at the level of Dalembert.
 
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