Well, if he comes I'll support it and if he doesn't I'll support that too. Basically I trust Geoff and will support the decision he makes. After watching the interview SacTownKid posted I don't think he's crazy. He doesn't sound crazy anyways by what he said there. Basically what I'm getting from him is he's sick of being thought of as that guy on indiana who went crazy and beat up a fan and IS crazy. Also Carlisle is apparently one of those guys who really micro manages the game and I think rick would just let him play.
Tick-tock: Time's up for Artest
- Thread starter Vlad
- Start date
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah, if his problems stem from micro managing than he would probably love it here.
SoupIsGood
Bench
VF21 said:
3 to 1?
I'd say it's more like 200 to 1, but I'm not sure I could find one person in favor of keeping him
foretaz
Bench
trust me when i tell u, u can dismiss the kravitz column....hes voisin times 10...voisin hopes she can grow up one day and be like bob...
he has had a personal vendetta against ron for quite some time....and it all comes down to rons refusal to give him an interview....and its only gotten worse...no matter what happens, bob finds a way to spin things in a way to defame ron and criticize both walsh for bringing him to the pacers and walsh and bird for keeping him here...
soup mentioned kravitz is colts guy...thats not really true...hes bashed the colts the same...not until this undefeated season has he been forced to back off-what else is he gonna do? just wait till they lose-if they lose....and heaven forbid if they dont win the superbowl...it will be a bloodbath...
ultimately this comes down to irreconciliable differences between artest and carlisle....everything else is window dressing....yes, ron has issues as ive discussed before....and they play a role in his not being able to play for carlisle....
thats why the situation he goes do has to be one that is suitable for his success and therefore the teams success....is that fair? shouldnt all guys be able to play no matter what? maybe...but ron isnt like most guys....he is incredibly talented, but with a very different emotional and mental makeup....
ron needs a system that allows him a great deal of freedom....if given that he will produce unbelievably, mark my words...the thing that differentiates him from a spoiled brat ball hog is this-hes not a spoiled brat....and he raises the level of intensity of the whole team...when u watch him play defense the way he does, u cant help notice how it changes the other guys defense as well....and its really not hard to forgive a guy for trying to take over a game on the offensive end when u see him putting forth so much effort on the defensive end....
i will say this...i think he needs to go to a relatively young team....ron always does great with the young guys and rookies...he literally took granger under his wing....why that may scare some, it shouldnt...no one works harder off the court, with endless workouts...he and grangers countless one on one battles are already somewhat of a legend, and it should be very interesting when ron returns to face the pacers and the 2 go at it...
quite honestly, new york is the ideal situation...isiah thomas loves artest...they need a sf...hes from there...he wants to go there...they have larry brown...the guy who thinks he can fix anybody...now-it would be interesting-because larry is very structured...but hes also incredibly forgiving when it comes to a guy that puts forth the effort that ron does...it would probably drive larry crazy to the point larry would resign...which zeke would love because he could get back on the bench and coach ron and the rest of the youngins he would have accumulated...
two problems though, its the knicks-who are a rival and an eastern conference team....and two, larry bird fired isiah and with the way this has went down, i cant see larry ever giving ron what he wants-let alone giving thomas what he wants....
so i dunno...truthfully i think he might be a great fit in new orleans...i think byron scott is the perfect coach for him...and makes me wish scott wouldve got the job way back when...they are a young team with some great young talent....and i wouldnt be shocked, if a deal was made there involving pj brown....
ron is high maintenance, no other way around it...but in a day where stars are coddled, rons situation is a bit different than other stars, though ultimately the results are somewhat similar....
wherever he goes, he will provide ups and downs, but i truly believe the ups will far outweigh the downs...but i will say this, all things end, and when it ends with ron, it will probably be a bit messy...u just hope that time doesnt come too quickly and the ride was worth it....
P.S. he would probably do fairly well in LA...know u dont wanna hear that....but phil could handle him better than most...
my honest opinion is, though the kings desperately need someone like him, i dont think he would be a good fit...
he has had a personal vendetta against ron for quite some time....and it all comes down to rons refusal to give him an interview....and its only gotten worse...no matter what happens, bob finds a way to spin things in a way to defame ron and criticize both walsh for bringing him to the pacers and walsh and bird for keeping him here...
soup mentioned kravitz is colts guy...thats not really true...hes bashed the colts the same...not until this undefeated season has he been forced to back off-what else is he gonna do? just wait till they lose-if they lose....and heaven forbid if they dont win the superbowl...it will be a bloodbath...
ultimately this comes down to irreconciliable differences between artest and carlisle....everything else is window dressing....yes, ron has issues as ive discussed before....and they play a role in his not being able to play for carlisle....
thats why the situation he goes do has to be one that is suitable for his success and therefore the teams success....is that fair? shouldnt all guys be able to play no matter what? maybe...but ron isnt like most guys....he is incredibly talented, but with a very different emotional and mental makeup....
ron needs a system that allows him a great deal of freedom....if given that he will produce unbelievably, mark my words...the thing that differentiates him from a spoiled brat ball hog is this-hes not a spoiled brat....and he raises the level of intensity of the whole team...when u watch him play defense the way he does, u cant help notice how it changes the other guys defense as well....and its really not hard to forgive a guy for trying to take over a game on the offensive end when u see him putting forth so much effort on the defensive end....
i will say this...i think he needs to go to a relatively young team....ron always does great with the young guys and rookies...he literally took granger under his wing....why that may scare some, it shouldnt...no one works harder off the court, with endless workouts...he and grangers countless one on one battles are already somewhat of a legend, and it should be very interesting when ron returns to face the pacers and the 2 go at it...
quite honestly, new york is the ideal situation...isiah thomas loves artest...they need a sf...hes from there...he wants to go there...they have larry brown...the guy who thinks he can fix anybody...now-it would be interesting-because larry is very structured...but hes also incredibly forgiving when it comes to a guy that puts forth the effort that ron does...it would probably drive larry crazy to the point larry would resign...which zeke would love because he could get back on the bench and coach ron and the rest of the youngins he would have accumulated...
two problems though, its the knicks-who are a rival and an eastern conference team....and two, larry bird fired isiah and with the way this has went down, i cant see larry ever giving ron what he wants-let alone giving thomas what he wants....
so i dunno...truthfully i think he might be a great fit in new orleans...i think byron scott is the perfect coach for him...and makes me wish scott wouldve got the job way back when...they are a young team with some great young talent....and i wouldnt be shocked, if a deal was made there involving pj brown....
ron is high maintenance, no other way around it...but in a day where stars are coddled, rons situation is a bit different than other stars, though ultimately the results are somewhat similar....
wherever he goes, he will provide ups and downs, but i truly believe the ups will far outweigh the downs...but i will say this, all things end, and when it ends with ron, it will probably be a bit messy...u just hope that time doesnt come too quickly and the ride was worth it....
P.S. he would probably do fairly well in LA...know u dont wanna hear that....but phil could handle him better than most...
my honest opinion is, though the kings desperately need someone like him, i dont think he would be a good fit...
I don't see him going to NY/Cleveland/Miami. Simply because Miami/NY are conference rivals, and Cleveland are in the same division and a threat. Also Indy wouldn't be getting back Wade/Shaq/LeBron/Z/Hughes.
Didn't think about LA, but I doubt they give up Odom or that they want his contract.
Didn't think about LA, but I doubt they give up Odom or that they want his contract.
foretaz
Bench
Kings113 said:
i actually think LA would love to give up odoms contract for artest and bender or cros deal....think of the cap space they would have in 2 years...
that being said, theres no way the pacers would take it...
i said this in the other thread but if artest did go to LA it would probably involve one of LAs centers...
and yes i agree...the chances of him going to NY/Clev/Miami are unbelievably slim....though the knicks would probably be willing to give up more than anyone in the league to get him..plus they would probably take tinsley in a trade-something i think the pacers want as well...
i just think the knicks are the last team in the league the pacers want to make a deal with....and that includes detroit....
Gandhi the Pimp
Prospect
Bender will be retiring anyday now,,,,,
true story
true story
foretaz
Bench
im aware of benders impending retirement...
the pacers might choose to hold off on that if they feel that using his contract might facilitate the move of artest...
i have a feeling bird is pretty pissed....they got the bender situation finally resolved and he gets on a plane for europe to scout, only to then have artest go into trade mode...
im really wondering what all is going thru birds mind...
the pacers might choose to hold off on that if they feel that using his contract might facilitate the move of artest...
i have a feeling bird is pretty pissed....they got the bender situation finally resolved and he gets on a plane for europe to scout, only to then have artest go into trade mode...
im really wondering what all is going thru birds mind...
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B
Bodiroga4C
Guest
i dont mind having ronnie here, but he might be a problem
PFFFT!!
Starter
Hmmm great, Peja for Artest, an attempt to solve the teams woes for 50+ remaining games, which can backfire and also have Artest skimpering back to overhyped gotham city next year like Marbury did who so badly wanted to go "home" and did nothing plus the Kings still have the "eternally overpaid 3 amigos" clinging to this team for a while. How about just sticking to what we have and just forget about even playoffs this year. This is just not worth it. This dude is clueless.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
PFFFT!! said:
Artest can't go anywhere until 2009. Part of the beauty of it. Peja is the one with one foot out the door.
PFFFT!!
Starter
Brick, then why is everyone talking about Artest "leaving next season for NYC"? I thought he had the same contract as Peja? There is a big risk on this guy, the minute some little dust particle appears on something, hes probably going to blow up on something or someone and bring down the whole ballclub.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
PFFFT!! said:
No idea who everybody is, or why they are saying that, but they are wrong.
Artest is signed through 08-09. And to about what Peja earns now. If he stays sane he is an increidble bargain for years.
Ther basically ARE no negative issues surrouodnign Artestcept the underlying issue of his sanity. Pretty much if you think he might hold it togetehr, everything else argues strongly for getting him. If you think he's nuts, you may not want him, but its not because of his contract.
Vlad
Bench
Bricklayer said:No idea who everybody is, or why they are saying that, but they are wrong.
Artest is signed through 08-09. And to about what Peja earns now. If he stays sane he is an increidble bargain for years.
Ther basically ARE no negative issues surrouodnign Artestcept the underlying issue of his sanity. Pretty much if you think he might hold it togetehr, everything else argues strongly for getting him. If you think he's nuts, you may not want him, but its not because of his contract.
Artest is signed through 2007-2008, with a player option for 2008-2009. After 2007-2008, he has made it abundantly clear that he will opt out of his contract, and if he's playing for a western conference team, sign with New York.
He wants to play for New York. If he was traded to Sacramento, I wonder if he'd be more interested in basketball or promoting his clothing line and record label (insanity aside).
Vlad
Bench
Kings113 said:
My point was that Artest is already a distracted man. He said that he wants to play for New York. If he was traded to Sacramento, I think he'd be more unhappy and more distracted. It seems to me that all the problems he has with Indiana would be the same problems (maybe worse) he would have playing for the Kings:
1. Indiana and Sacramento are both non-New York, small market teams.
2. More importantly, Ron wants to be a Kobe/Lebron-type player. Do you think he'd have that opportunity on a team that plays the Princeton offense and is already loaded with potent offensive players?
I'd much rather keep a guy like Peja, who yesterday said, "I'm here. I like being here. I believe in this team, and I believe we have the potential to be good."
ski said:
Time.
Besides, that's irrelevant to having organization for things off the court.
Vlad said:
I'm fine with Peja on the team, don't want him gone or hate him, I like him quite a bit. But if there's a deal for a player like Artest/Deng/Pierce/Bosh/good young prospects, etc. You do it.
Artest said "in an ideal world" he'd want to go to NY. Never heard he wants to be like Kobe/LeBron/T-Mac, he just wants more offensive oppurtunities. I believe that'd be fine here in Sac, indeed.
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38290/20051213/walsh_on_artest_he_said_hed_go_anywhere/ - read that, too.
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LPKingsFan
All-Star
Vlad said:
Weren't we lamenting our lack of a go-to guy not so long ago? Someone who can carry the team when the Princeton gets bogged down?
Vlad
Bench
Kings113 said:
"Here I don't think I'm going to have a chance to maximize my opportunity for my potential," he said. "When I first got here, all I wanted to do was play defense. I never really cared about offense, but what I see is players like Kobe (Bryant), Tracy (McGrady), (Gilbert) Arenas and Jermaine (O'Neal) getting the opportunity to maximize their potential on the court and to get paid. I'm out of my character a little bit here.
"I don't think I'm going to maximize my opportunity just playing defense. I have to show I'm one of the premier players on offense on the wing. So when it's that time, there's no question what type of player I am."
Ron is unhappy with 15 FGA per game and being the second leading scorer on a title-contender. Why do you think he'd be happy in Sacramento? There is no Kings player who averages more than 15 FGA per game (Bibby-15, Peja-14, Bonzi-13, 'Reef-11, Brad-10).
Good point, LP.
Interesting to read on the big reaction from the league and it's outlets, up to the the O'Neal/Doleac picture snippet:
http://www.hoopshype.com/rumors.htm
Interesting to read on the big reaction from the league and it's outlets, up to the the O'Neal/Doleac picture snippet:
http://www.hoopshype.com/rumors.htm
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Vlad said:
I may or may not agree with you. I simply don't know. Ron's point is that he thinks he does have those skills, but Carlisle's system holds him back. Is he right? I guess we'll know for sure in 10 days or so.
Vlad said:
Because of our passing mentaility, and Brad/Bibby wouldn't have to score 17-20 pts basically every game. Ditto Bonzi.
I just think it'd be fine here. Do you think he'd be better in Golden State with Jay Rich, Baron Davis, Troy Murphy and a bunch of young prospects?
LPKingsFan said:
Also agreed.
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LPKingsFan
All-Star
Kings113 said:I just think it'd be fine here. Do you think he'd be better in Golden State with Jay Rich, Baron Davis, Troy Murphy and a bunch of young prospects?
More importantly, do you think WE'D be better off with Golden State having a core of Baron/Artest/J-Rich/Murphy? And I fully expect Diogu to be beast within years.
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