Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
And when was the last time anyone got ANYTHING right about what Petrie was doing behind the scenes?? I don't believe any of these 'sources' know what they're talking about, really.
The Kings and Freeagency:
- Thread starter bajaden
- Start date
And when was the last time anyone got ANYTHING right about what Petrie was doing behind the scenes?? I don't believe any of these 'sources' know what they're talking about, really.
KingsCitizen
Starter
With the way these big men FA are pricing themselves, I think we're better off pulling a trade with teams and use our cap space to get non-overpriced big men.
A few guys I'd consider are:
1. Varejao
2. Biedrins
3. Josh Smith
4. Okafor
A few guys I'd consider are:
1. Varejao
2. Biedrins
3. Josh Smith
4. Okafor
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Or we can just wait for them to get amnestied.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
KingsCitizen
Starter
I'm referring to the price tags their agents are throwing right now which is already close to 20M per year. But if it'll settle back to around 12M range, then I'm in for getting Dally back.
#1 or #4 please. Btw, is Josh Smith a good compliment to Cousins?
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Just because they're asking for it, does not mean they shall receive.
ParniValjak
All-Star
https://twitter.com/#!/christomasson/status/144292165240094720
Kwame -freaking- Brown?!
Why do I get the feeling that we are going to **** up this big man thing up in a major way?!
After all, as an organization we never values these.
Also saw one of the tweets that implied that we are not prepared to offer $10million per season to Dalembert?! That is just ridiculous if true! With that frame of mind we will never win anything
Here is the link to Amick's article on the FA "Buzz"
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/12/06/nene.tyson.chandler/index.html
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
https://twitter.com/#!/christomasson/status/144292165240094720
Kwame -freaking- Brown?!
Why do I get the feeling that we are going to **** up this big man thing up in a major way?!
After all, as an organization we never values these.
Also saw one of the tweets that implied that we are not prepared to offer $10million per season to Dalembert?! That is just ridiculous if true! With that frame of mind we will never win anything
Here is the link to Amick's article on the FA "Buzz"
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/12/06/nene.tyson.chandler/index.html
So, you're OK with the Kings busting all their cap space to keep things status quo? If Dalembert/Cousins was destroying the league than that's one thing, but blowing all the space on Thornton and Daly just doesn't give me goosebumps. I say sign a solid rotation big and keep the money if you can't upgrade now. There's plenty of young bigs on the team to test out.
xyrin
Bench
We need to spend the money anyway to reach the minimum cap floor. Who would you rather spend it on? Two small contracts of Kwame Brown and Chuck Hayes? Or a sure bet in Dalambert? Are we really going to nitpick over an extra million or two a year when he is exactly the type of player we need?
Who are our young bigs to test out? Hickson is a PF. Cousins is a PF. JT SHOULD play PF instead of C. Whiteside? He hasn't proven a single thing at all in this league, you can't throw him into the starting line up. We need a solid center, and Dalambert is that guy.
ParniValjak
All-Star
At what point does the "testing out" stop?! We have been at it for 5 years and its time to get serious about improving and getting to where we want to be (and no thats not a perennial lottery team that does a whole heap of "testing out").
Dalembert and Cousins showed after the all-star break what they can do together and its is absolutely no coincidence that we played our best basketball during that stretch and especially once both settled into playing next to each other.
Further to that Evans was a shell of a player from his rookie season and a fit and firing Evans is another huge plus for us.
On paper it might be status quo but in reality its anything but and here is why:
- Dalembert and Cousins started building chemistry and we started playing .500 ball towards the end of the season mostly without Evans or an effective Evans
- We only hard Thornton after the all-star break and we played significantly better basketball after the all-star break so having him for a full season is a major boost
- A fit and ready Evans is a HUGE advantage.
- Improved 3PT shooting with the acquisition of Salmons (call it a draw with Casspi in terms of percentage) and Jimmer
- "Standard" improvement curve from 1st and 2nd year players and we are talking 3 players that we are building around in Cousins - Evans - Thornton
Just by natural improvement in Cousins, Evans and Thornton we are a better team even if we don't do anything else. Its about maturing which directly impacts the performance of these guys.
So if you think that even with status quo we are a 24 win team, then good luck to you but I am more than comfortable with my thoughts that we would be much better than last year just by keeping what we have.
Of course we would still have enough cap room to sign more veteran players to provide leadership and add to other areas that we might be lacking in.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
This team is barely even into the development stage of it's young players, that 5 year span has nothing to do with this current team. Right now is not typically the time to bog down your cap with players like Dalembert who while being a very good rebounder and a more than decent defender still has major issues in the most simplistic aspects of the game. Daly's a vet and there's no way to change him into something he's not and I think the Kings need to find somebody a little bit more able to cohesively work within an offense and do the little things.
If I'm Petrie I'm not overly fixated on next year, but the year after, and the year after. If the talent is there by all means pay for it, but don't turn yourself into the Magic or Cavs before you've even hit the playoffs. Not that signing Daly back is necessarily that, it depends on the price of course. I think Thornton is a must have though.
KingsCitizen
Starter
One of these players is Kwame Brown the other is Dalembert from Hoopshype. LOL!
Player A: [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]An athletic freak... Good shot blocker... Good leaping ability... His game needs to be polished... Foul prone... Has developed an offensive game, but still has a long way to go... Still very inconsistent... Doesn't have great hands.
Player B: [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Huge wingspan... Excellent shot blocker... Runs the floor well... Has to add some pounds to his body and polish his offensive game... Low basketball IQ... Maddeningly inconsistent.[/FONT]
Player A: [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]An athletic freak... Good shot blocker... Good leaping ability... His game needs to be polished... Foul prone... Has developed an offensive game, but still has a long way to go... Still very inconsistent... Doesn't have great hands.
Player B: [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Huge wingspan... Excellent shot blocker... Runs the floor well... Has to add some pounds to his body and polish his offensive game... Low basketball IQ... Maddeningly inconsistent.[/FONT]
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
After the All Star break Dalembert/Cousins was flat out potent, with most of the lack of any potency coming from Cousins still being a rookie and fading. Daly averaged 11.4pts 11.1reb 1.3 blk after being moved into the starting lineup once the midget Landry was traded. Cousins averaged 14.3pts 9.3reb 3.8ast 1.3stl 0.9blk next to him (and of course shot .424 and notched 4.0TO). Tyson Chandler wants 20mil for averaging 10.4pts 9.4reb 1.1blk. And of course this is hardly a fluke when it comes to Dalembert. He's been a Top 10 per minute rebounder in this league for a decade, and he's Top 50 all time in shotblocks. He'll move into the top 40 sometime next year. Be Top 25 before he's done. He's absolutely PERFECT for what we need at this point.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
It's still status quo. Sure, the younger players can get better, but it's still the same players (with Thornton and Dally), with the exception of the rookies. Not exactly the major face-lift that you would expect from a team with the cap room of the Kings. With this kind of FA $, the Kings should make some major upgrades in personnel, not continue on the slow-mo treadmill.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Cap room doesn't always = majro face lift.
Again people can't see what is right there in front of them. We have $70million of players on this team. They are young, not ready to earn $70mil yet, but if we do no more than bring back Dalembert and Thornton we are almost comically stacked with raw talent.
Thsi is what this team could look like in their respective primes:
Reke: $14mil
Cousins: $14mil
Thornton: $10-12mil
Dalembert: $10mil
Hickson: $8mil (?)
Thompson: $5mil (MLE)
Jimmer: $5mil (MLE)? more?
Salmons: $5mil (MLE)
Cisco: $5mil (MLE) current, maybe $3mil MLE in future
Whiteside/Donte/other rooks = ?
Add that all up and you will see that we are doing well if we can jsut keep it al together without crossing into capland. Swapping out Salmons for a purer defensive minded SF would be nice. Longterm we'll only be able to keep one of Hickson/JT etc. But there is a TON of talent on this team that needs to be locked up.
Our two superstar hopes for the future are Reke and Cousins. That's a given. Now consider that after the All Star game last year this is what the OTHER guys averaged:
Thornton 21.3pts 4.7reb 3.4ast
JJ Hickson 16.9pts 10.8reb 0.7blk
Dalembert 11.4pts 11.1reb 1.3blk
Thompson 10.0pts 6.8reb 0.8blk
Jimmer 28ppg in college
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
It looks like Richard Jefferson is getting 'amnistied' by the Spurs. Would it shock anyone if we went after him? I wouldn't be surprised. Just seems like a second rate Kings kind of move.
And you know what? I like this version of Richard Jefferson. I'd rather have last years RJ then John Salmons, thats for sure. He's a veteran (Westphal wants those!), full size SF, above average defender, and he had a rediculous year from the 3 last season. Jefferson and his 7.9 FGA per game with a .440 3P% is a much better fit as our starting SF than ball hog Salmons.
We have control here... we will be one of the first teams allowed to 'claim' him with a bid, if we win he has to come here. I'd be very impressed if we amnestied Salmons and claimed RJ, but I don't see that happening. I just have that feeling though ... Jefferson may be a King next year.
And you know what? I like this version of Richard Jefferson. I'd rather have last years RJ then John Salmons, thats for sure. He's a veteran (Westphal wants those!), full size SF, above average defender, and he had a rediculous year from the 3 last season. Jefferson and his 7.9 FGA per game with a .440 3P% is a much better fit as our starting SF than ball hog Salmons.
We have control here... we will be one of the first teams allowed to 'claim' him with a bid, if we win he has to come here. I'd be very impressed if we amnestied Salmons and claimed RJ, but I don't see that happening. I just have that feeling though ... Jefferson may be a King next year.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Jimmer is totally unproven. Thompson is the middle of the pack. Dalember is Ok and at the tail end of his career. Hickson...? Whiteside is unproven. Salmons is bleh. Garcia is injury prone and mediocre. Thornton is the only one I'd project with any confidence in a future lineup, other than Tyreke and Cousins. I really don't understand the love-fest with the status quo. I'm not going to be jumping with joy if we have the basically the same team as last year. Tyreke and Cousins need some major veteran influences on this team who can play the game with skill, command some respect, and set the tone to go out and win.
Again, this isn't that hard to figure out. The top shot blockers in the league last year: Bogut, Howard, McGee, Ibaka, Bynum, Milicic, Duncan, Stoudamire, Jefferson, Okafor, Hibbert, Jordan, the Gasols, Josh Smith, Lopez, Dalembert and Brand. Two things stand out about this group:
1. Only six of these teams didn't make the playoffs (the ones with the youngest guys)
2. When you remove the guys on rookie deals (who will almost universally get big pay increases), the average deal is around 13-14M$.
The obvious conclusion, having a shot blocking presence is a major key to competing in this league but it takes money to afford one.
If the Kings want to have an interior presence, its probably going to come from that list (or 2-3 other guys that don't block a lot of shots but still provide great interior D). Now we already tested Dally out last year and for all his flaws, it looks like he works in this team and it sounds like he would be available for around 10M (less than the going rate).
If not him, how exactly do the Kings plan to acquire that much needed piece of the puzzle?
1. Only six of these teams didn't make the playoffs (the ones with the youngest guys)
2. When you remove the guys on rookie deals (who will almost universally get big pay increases), the average deal is around 13-14M$.
The obvious conclusion, having a shot blocking presence is a major key to competing in this league but it takes money to afford one.
If the Kings want to have an interior presence, its probably going to come from that list (or 2-3 other guys that don't block a lot of shots but still provide great interior D). Now we already tested Dally out last year and for all his flaws, it looks like he works in this team and it sounds like he would be available for around 10M (less than the going rate).
If not him, how exactly do the Kings plan to acquire that much needed piece of the puzzle?
No reason to amnesty Salmons. I'd be happy to pick up Jefferson as a bench guy - the only question is how much we'd have to pay on the blind bid. Will $3M/year do it (3 years), or will that be too low? That would basically be "steal" value on Jefferson, and he'd jump ahead of probably every other rumored amnesty candidate (maybe not Roy, but he's so injured...) on my list.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
I think he's worth 5-6 mil, if not more in this crazy market where every team is trying to load up and reach the salary floor. It depends how much we want to lowball and how much we actually want him. He's going to get his 10 mil or so anyway, its just a matter of how much of it we are willing to pay.
I do think the best case, and highly unlikely case would be to amnesty Salmons and get RJ, while hoping some team picks up most of the Salmons deal through the amnesty bidding process. I just think that if our roster shakes out as follows..
Evans/Jimmer/Thomas
Thornton/Garcia
Salmons/Jefferson/Greene/Honeycutt
Cousins/Hickson
Dalembert/Thompson/Whiteside
Your looking at 10 guys who should all be playing well over 20 minutes a night .. And I would be severely concerned with how Paul Westphal will ruin a team with that many options.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
As would I. two aging mediocrities at SF does not equal one high quality player. Just creates even more of a minutes/shots crunch for a coach who has been extremely confused aobut such things in the past even when the answers were much more obvious.
I'm not sure. Two aging, strong-defensive small forwards sounds like a great match to me. Fewer minutes per game, keep the defensive intensity up all game...as long as Salmons and a hypothetical RJ can both buy into playing defense first with our other offensive options, work on nailing the three (Jefferson was way up last year at .440, can he keep it up on open shots when the D collapses on Tyreke/Cousins?), and not want to be the star, it would be a big boost.
Now, this all depends on Westphal having the nuts to say, "John, RJ, you're not playing 30 minutes a game. You're playing 20-25 each, and I want you out there busting your butts on every defensive possession." Sure. I see that. But I'm selling myself on the idea.
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
I dont get it...what's wrong with solidifying what we have now? I don't think Chandler/Nene/Gasol are worth throwing max contracts at if all we should do is re-sign Dalembert(who fits with DMC)and Thornton. I can see upgrading at SF(I like Salmons, but think Prince is better for us), but outside of bringing in Barea for more energy off the bench, I don't see a need. I think a lineup of:
Dalembert
DMC
Salmons
Thornton
Evans
With Jimmer, Hickson, JT, and a guy like Barea off the bench is probably close to. 500 at the worst, and that's with no overacheivement. Re-sign Dalembert, re-sign Thornton, bring in another energy guy like Barea, and see what happens. That being said, I think Petrie has one more trade up his sleeve this Friday, so that could change things, along with FA signings.
Dalembert
DMC
Salmons
Thornton
Evans
With Jimmer, Hickson, JT, and a guy like Barea off the bench is probably close to. 500 at the worst, and that's with no overacheivement. Re-sign Dalembert, re-sign Thornton, bring in another energy guy like Barea, and see what happens. That being said, I think Petrie has one more trade up his sleeve this Friday, so that could change things, along with FA signings.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
It's still early, and we all know Petrie holds things close to his vest. with him, have to take rumors with a grain of salt.
But still, every rumor I've heard besides Chandler, leads me to believe we're not ready to as aggressive, or spend as much as we were promised, for years.
Just wish I got the sense we were being as aggressive as LAC, GS and Ind. All teams comparable to us. Younger, gathering talent, have young talent, and looking to become annual playoff teams. Yet, from what I've heard, all those teams are being MUCH more aggressive then us. But time will tell.....
As for overspending on Daly, here's my theory. If we payed say 11M per, and you think he's worth 8M, then we over pay by 3M per, and remember we need to hit the cap floor.
In comparison, if we pay Hayes say 6M, and Barea 6M, I'd argue more then 3M of that total 12M committed, is wasted, given they're bench players who naturally won't have the time on the court to contribute as much. We aren't getting our moneys worth by offering that money to bench/role players. We can argue how much we would have overpayed for those to, in this scenario, but for s**** and giggles, let's say we only overpay 3M of that 12M.
So we overpay 3M for Hayes/Barea
and overpay 3M for Daly,
the overpaying 3M for Daly imo, is much better spent, because he'll produce more, and be more important then two bench players. Not sure how well I explained that. Bottom line, I'd rather overpay for one of the top 3-5 defensive/rebounding centers in the league, rather then overpay for role players who won't contribute as much.
I find it funny, that people think throwing an extra 2 or 3M at Daly is a complete waste of money, yet throwing 6M at either Hayes or Barea, or both, is not a risk, and actually makes more sense. God I hope Petrie has something up his sleeve.
But still, every rumor I've heard besides Chandler, leads me to believe we're not ready to as aggressive, or spend as much as we were promised, for years.
Just wish I got the sense we were being as aggressive as LAC, GS and Ind. All teams comparable to us. Younger, gathering talent, have young talent, and looking to become annual playoff teams. Yet, from what I've heard, all those teams are being MUCH more aggressive then us. But time will tell.....
As for overspending on Daly, here's my theory. If we payed say 11M per, and you think he's worth 8M, then we over pay by 3M per, and remember we need to hit the cap floor.
In comparison, if we pay Hayes say 6M, and Barea 6M, I'd argue more then 3M of that total 12M committed, is wasted, given they're bench players who naturally won't have the time on the court to contribute as much. We aren't getting our moneys worth by offering that money to bench/role players. We can argue how much we would have overpayed for those to, in this scenario, but for s**** and giggles, let's say we only overpay 3M of that 12M.
So we overpay 3M for Hayes/Barea
and overpay 3M for Daly,
the overpaying 3M for Daly imo, is much better spent, because he'll produce more, and be more important then two bench players. Not sure how well I explained that. Bottom line, I'd rather overpay for one of the top 3-5 defensive/rebounding centers in the league, rather then overpay for role players who won't contribute as much.
I find it funny, that people think throwing an extra 2 or 3M at Daly is a complete waste of money, yet throwing 6M at either Hayes or Barea, or both, is not a risk, and actually makes more sense. God I hope Petrie has something up his sleeve.
I really agree with this part! I was trying to think of a good way to say the same thing before I read your post.
I think Petrie will surprise us. Do you remember the excitement/hype right around the draft? Learning the Kings would be here for at least another year, drafting Jimmer and also picking up Hickson. I think the lockout really put a damper on the energy and excitement our club was building more than any other team. I expect to see it back shortly
