The Bibby Trade...

[sactownfan]

With much time to reflect on this trade and watching Williams finish out the season...

I've come to the conclusion that this trade was a bust.

PROS....sure we cleared room for martins extension and kept the salary below the luxury tax. Plus its not like Bibbys value is going up. It was a step toward rebuilding and we got a 2nd round pick.

However

Cons... Williams does not look like even a backup PF/C at this point. I'd rather have Justin Williams back. I Cant believe this is the best prospect we could get in this trade. I know they didn't have a 1st round pick this year... but at least we should have received a future 1st rounder. A 2nd round pick is just ok.

Oh well... whats done is done... Hopefully we can trade Artest for a great young player or a (long shot) pick.

 

[piksi]

Watching Bibby play in the Playoffs - the trade was phenomenal. We gave up expensive garbage for cheap garbage + expired garbage. Beats Webber trade any day.

 

[CruzDude]

Clearing $11M in cap space is a BIG deal these days. Williams I doubt was ever viewed as anything more than an upside backup PF who might grow into a starter. His flashes, occasional as they were, show him to be able to be heads above Mikki tho'.

Kings are a bit tight this year as only Mikki and RonRon are expiring next year, IF RonRon actually does elect to stay. Back to Shelden Williams. He gets $3.4M in coming year and team option in 09/10. So he better become an all-star in summer league and really push Mikki for playing time in October. But who do Kings have to backup Mikki now?? Yep, nobody.

Don't forget Beno. I think they sign him to a 3-year + option likely in the MLE range of $3.5M-$4.5M. That then solidifies PG, SG, SF (RonRon staying) and C. Problem is Mikki plays just well enough to start

The Albatroses around the neck of the Kings are the $16.5M and $12.8M owed respectively to KT and SAR the next two years. With them virtually untradeable, the Hawks trade was a necessity and we ended up no worse at the end of the year and maybe even better off.

So I give a casual "thumbs up" for the trade.

 

[Vlade4GM]

We're not going to have any cap space this offseason so getting Bibby's deal off the books this year really does nothing, but save the Maloofs money. I was for getting rid of Bibby just to get us some extra lins, but that didn't really happen. Did much come of it? Nope, but I don't know if it could've been a whole lot better at that point in time. Lets be realistic, Bibby's trade value was crazy low and it was going to stay that way. We weren't getting anything from Bibby and we still aren't, nothing has changed so lets just forget about it.

 

[Bricklayer]

Wasn't really a bust, since it somewhat accomplished its purposes -- cleared a salary, freed up the time/position for a younger player. And Mike really does look like either age or the lack of Adelman has made him a shell of himself.

I would agree about the positive returns thouhg -- a 2nd rather than a first is pretty meager, and Williams does not look like much. It was the right idea though, and worth the risk to see what Sheldon had. May not have worked out perfectly (i.e. Williams shows up and is a young starting quality PF), but not a bust. Just a shrug.

The interesting/scary (since every offseason for years now has been a pathetic disappointment) is whether we follow it up with similar moves around Brad, Ron etc., or whether we once again waste it and just stagnate.

 

[Heuge]

Good trade, not great but a good one.

 

[Heuge]

Watching Bibby play in the Playoffs - the trade was phenomenal. We gave up expensive garbage for cheap garbage + expired garbage. Beats Webber trade any day.

Mr. subjectivity, eh?

 

[piksi]

so what exactly isn't correct in my statement.

 

[Heuge]

so what exactly isn't correct in my statement.

I have never been a huge Bibby fan, I have always been one however to point out overstatementsr. (which has had you assuming I am) On the subject of Bibby, amongst others, you use sweeping overstatements. Bibby is by no means garbage. He is a middle of the pack point guard in the NBA getting paid like an upper teir one. To say he is garbage, or that he ought to retire is thoroughly subjective and thinking out of like and dislikes as apposed to play on the court.

 

[Jerryaki]

IMO, bibby's no longer "middle of the pack." i can think of only three teams with starting point guards worse than/i'd rather not have over bibby: maimi, seattle, and denver.

 

[piksi]

and Miami and seattle may draft a PG this summer.

You look at the second string PGs and You can find several better than Bibby is now.

Pargo, Farmer, Barbosa, Terry, Calderon, Navarro and maybe some more but I am too lazy to refresh my memory so I am probably forgetting someone.

 

[Kingzrool]

I am gonna have to go with piksi on this one, absolute garbage. The Hawks probably could have won that series with a decent PG.

A bust, ha? Good riddance I say.

 

[Heuge]

You can make the case that Biiby is better then these teams pg.
Orlando, Clevland, Indiana, Boston (yes, Boston), NY, Miami, Lakers, Clippers, Houston, Denver, Portland, Minn, Memph, Seattle and us.

That is middle of the road...
as for backup, that is the subjective blind hatred thingie again...

 

[BMiller52]

Watching Bibby play in the Playoffs - the trade was phenomenal. We gave up expensive garbage for cheap garbage + expired garbage. Beats Webber trade any day.

That's a little harsh but I kinda agree. Much better than the CWebb trade.

 

[RaY Z]

ill just say this trade was better than it was bad...

all we lost was one player who is pretty much on the decline now (for us anyways), he didnt really fit in with the "new kings"...

what did we get? a few garbage players (but i think shelden is ok), but garbage players with expiring contracts, not that it gets us under the cap or anything but it helps getting us closer.

and we got which i think is a handy 2nd round pick (a mid second round pick) which is nice. im not saying we'll get a great player, but its always nice to get an extra draft where you pick up young (possibly useful) players from college or overseas.

 

[jimbodan]

I wish we could have gotten more (doesn't that rumored deal with Miami last off season sure look good now?) but considering his skills have greatly declined and he is owed a lot of money, just being able to dump him for expirings isn't that bad.

 

[Elise10]

As much as seeing the last one go hurts for nostalgic reasons, for the team in the long terms he had to go.

A decent pg or not, the Game 7 versus Boston was a collective failure of the Hawks not just Bibby alone. People continue to play up him beating the Lakers for so long that some have failed to notice that Mike for the past couple of seasons has had up and down playoff years (when the Kings were in the playoffs)

I wouldn't say he's a former shell of himself (not yet, anyway), but he's getting older and injury-prone while his position is getting younger and stronger.

 

[Vlade4GM]

ill just say this trade was better than it was bad...

all we lost was one player who is pretty much on the decline now (for us anyways), he didnt really fit in with the "new kings"...

what did we get? a few garbage players (but i think shelden is ok), but garbage players with expiring contracts, not that it gets us under the cap or anything but it helps getting us closer.

and we got which i think is a handy 2nd round pick (a mid second round pick) which is nice. im not saying we'll get a great player, but its always nice to get an extra draft where you pick up young (possibly useful) players from college or overseas.

Actually it doesn't considering Bibby's contract expires after next year.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

As Brick said, it was an adequate trade--not excellent, not poor--but it accomplished its purpose of clearing up playing time and for clearing cap space. At the time, we got expiring contracts and a potential young guy we thought we could invest in while ridding ourselves of Bibby's contract and ever-declining play. That unto itself is makes the trade worthwhike; there's no way the Hawks would've given us Josh Childress, and Speedy Claxton is constantly injured. No use to catch the bigger fish either.

As for the pieces of the trade, I do think that Shelden, although not a bust, has a very limited ceiling. I mean, I'm not a Shelden Williams fan at all; he's too earthbound to really make an impact defensively, and his scoring instincts are mediocre at best because of his lack of polish and primacy. Come next season he needs to focus in a particular area of expertise rather than just dabbling in a little bit of everything but not really making an impact with the occasional post D or mid-range J; quite frankly, he's a center in a undersized PF's body (6'9"ish), so the people he should model his game after are those of the undersized burly bruiser PFs. First of all, he's a role player--so if he wants to develop greater scoring instincts, look no further than Craig Smith, Brandon Bass and Leon Powe. If he wants to show a great mean streak defensively, he should look towards guys like Jason Maxiell or Ronny Turiaf. But one thing that's severely holding him back in both areas are his lack of athleticism and the fact that he's too mechanical. He needs to start showing more fluidity on the court to make a greater impact.

 

[Smills91]

IMO, bibby's no longer "middle of the pack." i can think of only three teams with starting point guards worse than/i'd rather not have over bibby: maimi, seattle, and denver.

Clippers, Celtics, Bobcats, Bulls(they don't want Hinrich at the 1), Knicks, and Blazers. I would add to that list. I'd say Bibby RIGHT NOW is middle of the pack, I think he's still getting his rhythm back from his injuries, I do think he'll surge back into the top 10-12 by next season.

 

[Gary]

We are still over the cap if Artest stays.. So the trade didn't make much of a difference from a fans POV. From the owners POV they have about -11mil in salary to pay out this upcoming season, and shouldn't be close to hitting the lux-tax. If we re-sign Beno then all we are doing is trading Bibby's salary with Beno's salary which will last longer than 2008-2009 (which is when Bibby would have expired).

As it stands now if we don't sign anyone that will affect the 2009-2010 salary cap (with exception to the rookie we draft) then we should have some cash to spend on a FA. That's if we don't exercise any team options except for Hawes.

 

[jayfly]

Shelden Williams

I have been a Williams fan for a while. I do not understand how anyone can say he is a bust or has a low ceiling based on the limited time he played with us. He is the type of player we have not had in a while. A big guy that rebounds, defends the rim, hustles from end to end every possesion and is not afraid to knock someone on their @ss. It does appear his offensive game is a but limited right now but he has shown a decent jumper, and anyways we have enough scorers, we need defenders and rebounders. I would like to see him get a little more active away from the ball and set better screens but I think with a full summer of work he will be a big contributor next year.

 

[BMiller52]

I have been a Williams fan for a while. I do not understand how anyone can say he is a bust or has a low ceiling based on the limited time he played with us. He is the type of player we have not had in a while. A big guy that rebounds, defends the rim, hustles from end to end every possesion and is not afraid to knock someone on their @ss. It does appear his offensive game is a but limited right now but he has shown a decent jumper, and anyways we have enough scorers, we need defenders and rebounders. I would like to see him get a little more active away from the ball and set better screens but I think with a full summer of work he will be a big contributor next year.

I think he could be a 10/10 guy or 11/9 or something. He reminds me of Brian Grant.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Clippers, Celtics, Bobcats, Bulls(they don't want Hinrich at the 1), Knicks, and Blazers. I would add to that list.

That's ridiculous. That's absolutely ridiculous. Anybody that would take 2005-2008 Bibby over Rajon Rondo, Raymond Felton, Kirk Hirnrich or Steve Blake (or even Jarrett Jack, for that matter), needs to have their head examined.

 

[mac]

I'd take him over Blake and Jack

 

[Jerryaki]

i'd like to see someone picking 10 PGs on this list (i think this is the starting PG list, i'm not even including the backups who may be just as good as a starter) worse than/they'd rather not have over Bibby. this is defined as someone who's put up stinkier numbers this season, or has a darker outlook over the next few seasons.

Mike Bibby Atlanta Hawks
Rajon Rondo Boston Celtics
Raymond Felton Charlotte Bobcats
Kirk Hinrich Chicago Bulls
Daniel Gibson Cleveland Cavaliers
Jason Kidd Dallas Mavericks
Anthony Carter Denver Nuggets
Chauncey Billups Detroit Pistons
Baron Davis Golden State Warriors
Rafer Alston Houston Rockets
Jamaal Tinsley Indiana Pacers
Shaun Livingston Los Angeles Clippers
Derek Fisher Los Angeles Lakers
Mike Conley Jr. Memphis Grizzlies
Marcus Banks Miami Heat
Mo Williams Milwaukee Bucks
Sebastian Telfair Minnesota Timberwolves
Devin Harris New Jersey Nets
Chris Paul New Orleans Hornets
Nate Robinson New York Knicks
Jameer Nelson Orlando Magic
Andre Miller Philadelphia 76ers
Steve Nash Phoenix Suns
Steve Blake Portland Trail Blazers
Beno Udrih Sacramento Kings
Tony Parker San Antonio Spurs
Earl Watson Seattle SuperSonics
Jose Calderon Toronto Raptors
Deron Williams Utah Jazz
Gilbert Arenas Washington Wizards

 

[bajaden]

Wasn't really a bust, since it somewhat accomplished its purposes -- cleared a salary, freed up the time/position for a younger player. And Mike really does look like either age or the lack of Adelman has made him a shell of himself.

I would agree about the positive returns thouhg -- a 2nd rather than a first is pretty meager, and Williams does not look like much. It was the right idea though, and worth the risk to see what Sheldon had. May not have worked out perfectly (i.e. Williams shows up and is a young starting quality PF), but not a bust. Just a shrug.

The interesting/scary (since every offseason for years now has been a pathetic disappointment) is whether we follow it up with similar moves around Brad, Ron etc., or whether we once again waste it and just stagnate.

Knowing the mentality of the Kings organization, and, I'm not saying its right or wrong, I doubt they'll do anything earth shattering unless its a can't miss deal. At the end of the 2009-2010 season, barring anything major between now and then, 27 mil and some change will come off the books. I just doubt they want to do anything to screw that up.
I sincerely hope that I'm wrong, just for my own intertainment, but I think Petrie has had his eye set on that season for some time now.

 

[RIP miyagi]

i'd like to see someone picking 10 PGs on this list (i think this is the starting PG list, i'm not even including the backups who may be just as good as a starter) worse than/they'd rather not have over Bibby.

I just wanted to say that was one of the must confusing things that i have ever read. "they'd rather not have over bibby"? wha?

any way, i think i picked about 17 names over bibby.

and about shelden williams, ide rather have his girl Candace parker on our team than him.

 

[Kingster]

Too Little, Too Late

Too little, and waaaay too late. Petrie could have done this type of deal two years ago, easy, paving the way to an earlier rebuild. But Mr. Slow as He Goes waited three years to give Bibby up for cap space. Alsc, I really wonder if Petrie would have seriously shopped Bibby 2-3 years ago if he couldn't have gotten more in a trade. Back then, the blush was still on the Bibby rose. By last year, any GM or fan could see that Bibby wasn't what he used to be. Petrie, waited, waited, and waited, and what did he get for his "waiting and seeing"? He gave us a tepid, slow as molasses rebuild.

 

[Kingster]

I have been a Williams fan for a while. I do not understand how anyone can say he is a bust or has a low ceiling based on the limited time he played with us. He is the type of player we have not had in a while. A big guy that rebounds, defends the rim, hustles from end to end every possesion and is not afraid to knock someone on their @ss. It does appear his offensive game is a but limited right now but he has shown a decent jumper, and anyways we have enough scorers, we need defenders and rebounders. I would like to see him get a little more active away from the ball and set better screens but I think with a full summer of work he will be a big contributor next year.

He's a poor-man's Carlos Boozer. Check out what the real Carlos Boozer does against longer, more athletic players, in the Laker series. You've got to be able to FINISH if you're a power forward in this league. It's the #1 requirement in my book, especially for this team. If you can't, then you have to be extraordinary in other areas, and Williams isn't extraordinary in any area.