Luv4Kings
Bench
I think we're starting to take Evans for granted.
Talking point guard/Evans/etc. (split from Wolves grade thread)
- Thread starter Luv4Kings
- Start date
I think we're starting to take Evans for granted.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
no, some of you just overrated him when you bought into the hype and are drinking too much of the kool-aid... section 101 is right, evans played one of his best games last night. he didnt put up a near triple double but thats what made it so great. for the first time this season he wasnt asked to be the man and he put up 18/5/5. thats why i wasnt all that impressed at his stats in the beginning. he was doing so much to get his 20/6/6 numbers that it was scary. if the layups dont go in or he misses a free throw we lose. but in this game he got his 18/5/5 with relative ease. its games like this that i knew that he would have that made me make that martin for tmac thread in the offseason. if everyone else is clicking he can just pick his spots and pretty much coast his way to a 18/5/5 game.
its the same way martin seems to coast his was to 24 points per game all season long, well the games that he actually plays. its also why i want beno traded, he's playing really well so he will have some trade value. if sergio would assert himself more on offense and try to score we will be a much better team once martin gets back. beno and nocioni are dead weight... they need to be traded.
Luv4Kings
Bench
I agree he played one of his best games last night. Which is why I said we are starting to take him for granted, that we expect this and are not surprised.
As for the "hype and kool-aid", I'm not sure what that has to do with my comment.
gunks
Hall of Famer
Dont think its that....
Reke is so good that an 18/5/5/2/1 line has become, as Brick has mentioned in a few grade threads, a bit ho-hum and pedestrian. Kid is averaging 23/6/5/2 in december after all.
We seriously came up in this draft. I was hyped about Flynn once we got stuck with pick #4, and I still think he'll be a player, but Reke is a freak. Omri is a steal. Brockness and Sergio > Blair and his knees.
Edit: Aries beat me to it.
Luv4Kings
Bench
I guess I'm missing something in your point. It's because Evans is so good that we expect it, thus, we are taking his performance for granted. Didn't we just say the same thing?
A
AriesMar27
Guest
kinda, sorta, not really... some just didnt know how good he would be so his numbers in the beginning were just amazing to them, but to me(and others) they were just run of the mill... which if you read enough posts here starts a lot of unnecessary drama... some didnt expect 18/5/5 to be his plateau numbers. but once they saw that they went ape**it over it. thats why some of them are so defensive of evans.
Luv4Kings
Bench
I see. I didn't mean to step in the drama.
I think though, that regardless of what most people might have predicted last June, Evans is now real and we can all see what he brings. And I'm guessing most people realize how good he is and expect him to be consistently that good night after night. I know, I'm guilty of expecting a lot from him now and not being surprised when he brings it.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
thats the difference here, i saw that from the beginning, so did gary... but we both knew that he wouldnt be a "pg" in the traditional sense... you can see the difference in some of the other posters, they look at his 18/5/5 and say, "wow, thats really good and he's a 6'6 pg... thats amazing." i see him put up the same number and say, "so what? i knew he could do that and he isnt a pg..." so we have drama...
this game was nice because it showed everyone what we can expect from evans... just like we know martin is a 24ppg scorer in this league we know that evans is almost a lock for 18/5/5 night every game. i knew he would be good and thats why my expectations for him were so high and why i wasnt impressed with just the 18/5/5 number in the beginning. everyone who defended the numbers would always say that if the team made more shots he would have more assists, that doesnt stop chris paul or nash from getting 10 a game. look at our own sergio rodriguez, he has been balling out of his mind when he gets the minutes...
it kinda sucks because it might cost us martin when he finally got the pg that he needed to play with in sergio. thompson and hawes will eventually find their niche with sergio if he continues to get minutes. a real pg makes a real difference in how this team plays. thats why we need to trade beno... asap!
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Your man love for Rubio just won't stop will it? Run of the mill huh? I won't even respond to such nonsense. What a joke!
A
AriesMar27
Guest
to each his own i guess... i saw this coming with evans and it has nothing to do with he who shall remain nameless...
NME
Starter
to each his own i guess... i saw this coming with evans and it has nothing to do with he who shall remain nameless...
We're giving benefit of the doubt that there's a motivation behind your bizarre convolutions of logic.
to each his own i guess... i saw this coming with evans and it has nothing to do with he who shall remain nameless...
Dude, you really need to drop the "he who shall remain nameless." Honestly. It's pretty trollish when you get right down to it.
As far as your comments about how you felt about Evans, yeah... whatever. And I only used this post of yours to quote because it was nice and short.
Just face the music and own your mistake. Evans has FAR exceeded what you thought he'd do and he's doing it as a point guard. You can call him anything you want but at this point you're merely stirring the pot and it's gotten past old and well into the "close to troll" category. And that is something that I, as a long-time moderator of this forum, do not take lightly. It's you who are perpetuating the drama...not anyone else.
K
Kingsguy881
Guest
Is that right? All of your incessant flaming of Evans was because you expected an all-star caliber POINT GUARD and you are just unhappy that he.....why are you unhappy again? Life?to each his own i guess... i saw this coming with evans and it has nothing to do with he who shall remain nameless...
Section 101
All-Star
I wouldnt excatly call it playing the point guard. Even Westphal has said its more a combo. The pass that Sergio made to Hawes last nigh Evans can't make. That's just a vision he doesnt have. Sure he will make some from time to time, but nothing like Sergio does.
Last night they had Donte and JT bringing up the ball alot with the starters. I don't know how often that will work, but last night it did. It looked more like the old Kings days last night than it ever has.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Since an unnamed poster implied that Evans was being overrated by some, and that according to him the numbers he was putting up were run of the mill, lets do some comparisons. These are all rookie year comparisons. And while there's no way to guarrantee any of todays rookies will maintain these numbers, they're all we have to go on.
L. James: 39.5 MPG, 18.8 FGA, .417%, 20.9 PPG, 5.9 APG, 5.5 RPG, 1.6 S
T. Evans: 36.0 MPG, 16.0 FGA, .463%, 20.1 PPG, 5.1 APG, 5.0 RPG, 1.5 S
I lumped these together because of obvious reasons..
B. Jennings: 35.4 MPG, 18.7 FGA, .418%, 21 PPG, 6.0 APG, 3.8 RPG, 1.1 S
J. Flynn: 29.2 MPG, 11. 7 FGA, .427%, 13.7 PPG, 4.3 APG, 2.5 RPG, 1.2 S
S. Curry: 32.0 MPG, 9.7 FGA, .448%, 11.2 PPG, 4.7 APG, 3.2 RPG, 1.7 S
G. Hill: 38.3 MPG, 15.2 FGA, .477%, 19.9 PPG, 5.0 APG, 6.4 RPG, 1.7 S
M.Jordan: 38.3 MPG, 19.8 FGA, .515%, 28.2 PPG, 5.9 APG, 6.5 RPG, 2.3 S
And then the grand daddy of them all..
O. Robertson: 42.7 MPG, 22.5 FGA, .475%, 30.5 PPG, 9.7 APG, 10.1 RPG
They didn't keep track of steals back then.
This one is just for fun.
Thabeet: 10 MPG, 1.9 FGA, .571%, 2.5 PPG, 0.0 APG, 3.1 RPG, 0.3 S
And in the battle of second round picks:
D. Blair: 14.1 MPG, 4.3 FGA, .593%, 5.8 PPG, 0.7 APG, 5.2 RPG, 0.2 S
Brockman: 10.1 MPG, 1.9 FGA, .581%, 2.7 PPG, 0.4 APG, 3.8 RPG, 0.1 S
When you look at Evans numbers so far, I don't think you can call them run of the mill. Remember were talking about a rookie here. The only other rookie that has numbers comparable is Jennings, who is also having a great year.
I have the stats for all the other prominent rookie's in the draft, but chose not to post them because no one is even close to Evans in any catagory other than Jennings. So when you compare Evans stats against the rest of the rookie class, its not even close. What makes his stats exceptional is when you compare them with LeBron and Hill. Jordan and Robertson are in a world of their own..
L. James: 39.5 MPG, 18.8 FGA, .417%, 20.9 PPG, 5.9 APG, 5.5 RPG, 1.6 S
T. Evans: 36.0 MPG, 16.0 FGA, .463%, 20.1 PPG, 5.1 APG, 5.0 RPG, 1.5 S
I lumped these together because of obvious reasons..
B. Jennings: 35.4 MPG, 18.7 FGA, .418%, 21 PPG, 6.0 APG, 3.8 RPG, 1.1 S
J. Flynn: 29.2 MPG, 11. 7 FGA, .427%, 13.7 PPG, 4.3 APG, 2.5 RPG, 1.2 S
S. Curry: 32.0 MPG, 9.7 FGA, .448%, 11.2 PPG, 4.7 APG, 3.2 RPG, 1.7 S
G. Hill: 38.3 MPG, 15.2 FGA, .477%, 19.9 PPG, 5.0 APG, 6.4 RPG, 1.7 S
M.Jordan: 38.3 MPG, 19.8 FGA, .515%, 28.2 PPG, 5.9 APG, 6.5 RPG, 2.3 S
And then the grand daddy of them all..
O. Robertson: 42.7 MPG, 22.5 FGA, .475%, 30.5 PPG, 9.7 APG, 10.1 RPG
They didn't keep track of steals back then.
This one is just for fun.
Thabeet: 10 MPG, 1.9 FGA, .571%, 2.5 PPG, 0.0 APG, 3.1 RPG, 0.3 S
And in the battle of second round picks:
D. Blair: 14.1 MPG, 4.3 FGA, .593%, 5.8 PPG, 0.7 APG, 5.2 RPG, 0.2 S
Brockman: 10.1 MPG, 1.9 FGA, .581%, 2.7 PPG, 0.4 APG, 3.8 RPG, 0.1 S
When you look at Evans numbers so far, I don't think you can call them run of the mill. Remember were talking about a rookie here. The only other rookie that has numbers comparable is Jennings, who is also having a great year.
I have the stats for all the other prominent rookie's in the draft, but chose not to post them because no one is even close to Evans in any catagory other than Jennings. So when you compare Evans stats against the rest of the rookie class, its not even close. What makes his stats exceptional is when you compare them with LeBron and Hill. Jordan and Robertson are in a world of their own..
Luv4Kings
Bench
to each his own i guess... i saw this coming with evans and it has nothing to do with he who shall remain nameless...
Oh, now I see where you're coming from. So no, we're not saying even close to the same thing.
Evans will be a super star sooner rather than later. That much is clear, regardless of who predicted it first or didn't predict it at all or who wanted someone else entirely.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
i dont expect him to be a point guard at all... evans is a scorer, a good one at that but he isnt a distributor... he couldnt make the passes that sergio goes for during games. evans might become a 25/5/5 player and that will be amazing to watch one day but i dont see him as a pg. i dont see how we will be able to win a ring one day with a 5apg pg... as our star. look at arenas... great player but its not going to work.
but a 25/5/5 sg and a 12/9 pg? it could happen... all of the great pgs that you could think of today dont have a 25ppg sg... chris paul has no one at sg, nash has richardson but he isnt doing much. same goes for deron williams and rose. rondo has allen but thats about as close as you get.
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NME
Starter
A lot of PG's can't make the passes that Sergio does, including players that are better than him. Doesn't make them not-PG's.
Might one day? He's about a hair from that TODAY.
Why would that be his max when he's already averaging 5 apg in his first month in the league? He's upped that to 6 apg so far in December.
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A
AriesMar27
Guest
i dont know about a lot, but yeah, sergio is a good passer...
yes, one day... not today... but one day he will be a 25/5/5 player.
do you honestly see evans being a 8 assists per game player? seriously...
and ive already said that i thought that they would be right where they are today and that the team was much better than their 17 win season last year.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
oh okay... i could see him doing 6 for a season... thats part of my problem with him being a pg. how many really good pgs average 6 or 7 assists per game? even the more non-traditional ones could put up 8 assists per game. bibby did it with the grizzlies before he came to the kings and never did it again. thats why i keep saying 5 assists per game, its something about this team that does it to players. the bigs are soft and the pgs dont rack up the assists...
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
I see your point, but I would also argue that assists aren't as important in a high-post offense. Tyreke will become a better passer. He has the ability, its just experience and knowing where his teammates will be. Kevin slashing off the ball will also help.
But Spencer and JT will also become better passers, and will become more comfortable running a high-post offense through them. Because of that, it will hurt Tyreke's assist numbers, just like we saw with Bibby. But he'll get easier scoring opportuntites because of it.
NME
Starter
Again, only about five guys per season do that. Tony Parker has never once cracked 7 assists.
As long as we win and all the players have good chemistry, who gives a **** about whether Tyreke gets 5 or 8 assists? Seriously I don't see the point in arguing so much about oh, this player would be better for this player, this player would make our offense better. Who cares how you do it? As long as you achieve what you want and everyone's happy.
Which is why I don't understand the point in quarrelling over trivial things like whether Evans is a PG or not. And to say you expect a rookie to put up 18/5/5 every game and thus he has not impressed, that's just total bull. Regardless of which camp you're in, all normal kings fans should be happy and pleased with the product that we now have out on the court. And this is without Martin and Garcia. So instead of looking to the bright future we have, why argue over useless matters. Duhhhh 18/5/5 Tyreke not PG duh we could be better with lord voldemort who hasn't played a game and is doing squat in europe duh beno should be mvp tyreke is too selfish should stop being all star.
god.
Which is why I don't understand the point in quarrelling over trivial things like whether Evans is a PG or not. And to say you expect a rookie to put up 18/5/5 every game and thus he has not impressed, that's just total bull. Regardless of which camp you're in, all normal kings fans should be happy and pleased with the product that we now have out on the court. And this is without Martin and Garcia. So instead of looking to the bright future we have, why argue over useless matters. Duhhhh 18/5/5 Tyreke not PG duh we could be better with lord voldemort who hasn't played a game and is doing squat in europe duh beno should be mvp tyreke is too selfish should stop being all star.
god.
Section 101
All-Star
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I like pass first PGs as much as the next guy, but being overly fascinated by them shows an ignorance of this little factoid:
Starting PG Assists for NBA Champions, last 19 years:
08-09 Fisher 3.2
07-08 Rondo 5.1
06-07 Parker 5.5
05-06 Williams 4.9
04-05 Parker 6.1
03-04 Billups 5.7
02-03 Parker 5.3
01-02 Fisher 2.6
00-01 Shaw 3.2
99-00 Harper 3.4
98-99 Johnson 7.4
97-98 Harper 2.9
96-97 Harper 2.5
95-96 Harper 2.6
94-95 Smith 4.0
93-94 Smith 4.2
92-93 Armstrong 4.0
91-92 Armstrong 3.2
90-91 Armstrong 3.7
Starting PG Assists for NBA Champions, last 19 years:
08-09 Fisher 3.2
07-08 Rondo 5.1
06-07 Parker 5.5
05-06 Williams 4.9
04-05 Parker 6.1
03-04 Billups 5.7
02-03 Parker 5.3
01-02 Fisher 2.6
00-01 Shaw 3.2
99-00 Harper 3.4
98-99 Johnson 7.4
97-98 Harper 2.9
96-97 Harper 2.5
95-96 Harper 2.6
94-95 Smith 4.0
93-94 Smith 4.2
92-93 Armstrong 4.0
91-92 Armstrong 3.2
90-91 Armstrong 3.7
NME
Starter
Abandonment of current argument and shifting to yet another angle of attack?
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