vistacruza_kings
Bench
funny, 2 months ago you all thought i was crazy to say john wall will NOT be the concensus #1 pick. now its a big debate.
So if ever we get the number 1 pick...
- Thread starter Kings Fan Gerard
- Start date
Second that.... I don't see Ron harper as a PG with the bulls aside of Jordan in the backcourt ... and sometimes, Pippen was the point forward..... and their center was .. trash.. it will really depends on how our line up is ... maybe we can get something from the free agent market to compensate that.
Uncia03
Starter
You aren't seriously trying to compare Martin to Turner are you?
Turner's ball-handling skills are as good as, if not better than Tyrekes. I remember a poll regarding Martin asking what area of his game needed the most improvement. Since defense wasn't on the list, ball-handling was the overwhelming answer, and I agree completely.
Next, Turner showed the ability to post up his man. Kevin couldn't post up his man if his life depended on it, that's just now how his game is constructed.
So if you pair Tyreke and Turner together in the back-court you have the following situation:
1.) Tyreke is guarded by the other team's PG. Tyreke is going to take advantage of that all day by either muscling up and driving to the lane, or posting up that guard.
2.) Turner is guarded by the other team's PG. Turner will also be able to take advantage of that all day. Most likely by using his height and length to either shoot over the guard or to post him up. Turner will also be able to have a live dribble and dribble-penetrate and stop for the mid-range jumpshot or take it to the rim far easier than Martin ever could.
Either way, the only way a team would have any sort of success trying to guard that back-court would be to take their own PG off the floor and throw in two defense SGs, and of course, that is to our advantage as well.
Simply put there isn't another PG in the league where teams start the game putting their best wing (either SG or SF) defender on the opposing team's PG because they don't have any PG who has a hope of stopping him.
So the best thing this team could do, would to bring in another player into the backcourt who will abuse the team's PG if the opposing team decides not put their PG on Tyreke. There isn't anyone in the draft better suited to this than Turner, and I would be hard pressed to find too many people currently playing in the NBA who would fit next to Tyreke better than Turner.
Now to your other points:
I agree with you completely in that teams are going to have a very hard time stopping Wall. He's going to be a fantastic player.
But if Wall played against Tyreke and the opposing team put Wall to defend Tyreke, my guess is that the other team would be forced to make changes defensively (pack the interior, big man shadowing, double teams, putting a bigger man on Tyreke, ect.) to stop Tyreke before the Kings would have to make defensive adjustments.
I also agree that Wall is a good defender now, and if he puts in the effort, can be a very good defender at the PG spot.
UKRAINE
G-League
That's exactly why I want Turner and that's why I don't want Beno to be our starting SG.
mr. moustache
Bench
=LarryLegend=
Starter
I think unless Wall or Turner end up in Sacramento Cisco will be the starting 2 guard. he will be alot better next season, good defender and IS our best shooter.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
To me the best case scenario would be to get the first pick. Draft Wall(hold hostage for our benifit) Hope that a team in the next couple of picks has another first rounder. Have them draft the player you want preferably Turner then swap plus players(Noc) and get there 2nd 1st round pick. Get Whiteside with are 2nd first round pick. With are 2nd rounder pick a sleeper like Renardo sidney. So we would be set in my opinion are Starting lineup and backups would be:
Tyreke Evans/Beno
Evan Turner/Garcia
Donte Green/Casspi
Jason Thompson/Landry/sidney
Hassan Whiteside/Spencer Hawes
The word Sleeper and Sidney works well, but not for the reasons you might think. I wouldn't touch Sidney with a ten foot pole. He showed up at the McDonalds and Nike tournaments overweight and out of shape. Most of the scouts thought he acted as though he was owed a direct route into the NBA. He hasn't played a lick of basketball this season because of alledged NCAA violations. He was rejected by 5 of the top basketball universities, including UCLA. He finally got Mississippi St. to take a flyer on him. I sure they regret doing so now.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I think the debate is more over who would be the better fit, than who is the more talented. Because if the debate is who is the most talented right now, then the answer is Turner. But make no mistake, both these guys are going to be stars in the NBA. At least I think so.
While I agree with you that Wall is also a good defender, he was a more inconsistant defender this year than Turner was. Now to be fair about it, Turner was a junior and Wall was a freshman. So Turner should be more experienced on the defensive side of the ball.
I fall into the group that believes Turner would be the better fit on the Kings. Thats not to say picking Wall wouldn't work. Its a matter of what would work the best. Wall is a highlight waiting to happen. I think he enjoys being a highlight reel player. Who wouldn't. I think he's a big time alpha male. I also think that Tyreke is a big time alpha male. You put two alpha male dogs in the same yard together and you have a problem. I know, their not dogs, and there's really no right or wrong here.
Turner on the other hand never appears to be one to relish the limelight. He won't avoid it, but he doesn't seek it. He would be the perfect yang to Tyreke's ying. Turner never looked to score unless his team was in trouble, or he was given a gift by the other team. He's not as explosive as Wall, but he's a lot craftier. His mid-range game is excellent. He's a very good post up player, and excellent ballhandler. He also plays off the ball extremely well. Like Tyreke he can get to the basket and is a good finisher.
There were games where he almost lulled the other team to sleep. I remember a game where I believe he only had 5 or 6 points at the half. He kept trying to get his teammates going. About 4 minutes into the second half he just exploded and took matters into his own hands. At the end of the game Ohio St. had won and he 32 points and around 12 rebounds..
The only knock on Turner is his 3pt shot, which will come with practice. And his turnovers, which I attribute to the fact that he was the primary ballhandler and distributer on his team. But if one thinks Turners turnovers are reason to pass on him, the you have to pass on Wall for the same reason. Personally I'm not concerned about either player when it comes to turnovers. Just watch a couple of college games and you see a distinct difference in how they take care of the ball vrs the NBA. Just watch a Georgia Tech. game and then go throw up. Poor Favors..
I'll be happy with either one, but I prefer Turner..
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bajaden
Hall of Famer
One would hope that either Greene or Casspi, or both will emerge as the player your seeking. Also remember that Turner has a lethal mid-range shot. Its so good that at Ohio St. he was able to freeze the defense just by slowing at the top of the key as though he was going to pull up, and then continue on to the basket with his man in the air. They never knew what he was going to do. Sometimes he passed the ball to an open man under the basket. I think we'll start to see a similar style of play from Tyreke this next season.
Gary
All-Star
Messing with the ESPN Lottery mock draft generator;
http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2010/mockdraft
Here is the picks....
1st - 2 (10%)
2nd - 5 (25%)
3rd - 2 (10%)
4th - 7 (35%)
5th - 4 (20%)
6th - 0 (0%)
I did it another 10 times, and it REALLY liked giving the Kings the #5 pick lol.. Was about 50% at the 5th pick, and the 3rd pick again got no love at 5%. 1st was also 5%. I did hit a 6th pick as well..
I have this horrible feeling we are getting the 5th pick..
http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2010/mockdraft
Here is the picks....
1st - 2 (10%)
2nd - 5 (25%)
3rd - 2 (10%)
4th - 7 (35%)
5th - 4 (20%)
6th - 0 (0%)
I did it another 10 times, and it REALLY liked giving the Kings the #5 pick lol.. Was about 50% at the 5th pick, and the 3rd pick again got no love at 5%. 1st was also 5%. I did hit a 6th pick as well..
I have this horrible feeling we are getting the 5th pick..
vikinginferno
Starter
Messing with the ESPN Lottery mock draft generator;
http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2010/mockdraft
Here is the picks....
1st - 2 (10%)
2nd - 5 (25%)
3rd - 2 (10%)
4th - 7 (35%)
5th - 4 (20%)
6th - 0 (0%)
I did it another 10 times, and it REALLY liked giving the Kings the #5 pick lol.. Was about 50% at the 5th pick, and the 3rd pick again got no love at 5%. 1st was also 5%. I did hit a 6th pick as well..
I have this horrible feeling we are getting the 5th pick..
No matter how many times you click that button to do the ESPN generator, the % will always be the same. It's funny how some people (not saying you) will go away from simple statistics and instead irrationally think that there are other factors when it is simply a %.
Gary
All-Star
Oh I know.. I know the %'s and I know that no matter how many times I click it that it will not change the chance we have at getting a certain pick..
Just was interesting how many times that dang #5 came up.. Maybe it's an omen!
Let's assume that we get the number 1 pick. What about draft John Wall with the #1 pick and trade Evans for the #2 pick to draft either Cousins or Turner? This way we avoid the potential conflict of having two players who want to dominate the ball on the same team. It sounds crazy to trade a sure thing for an unknown but high risk high reward (if John Wall turns out to be a combination of Dwayne Wade and Chris Paul, Turner and Cousins become allstar level players)
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Uh, no.
Not happening. Evans will be here pretty much as long as he wants to be here. Every once in a very long couple of decades while you get a player who legitimately could be the "career King" (or whichever team). They don't ever get traded unless things go very sour for a very long time. You need years and years of losing, prima donna behavior from the player, and a variety of other things before its even on the table.
And in essence BTW you are trading Evans for Wall. Which is something else you would enver do -- one is the proven future All Star, the other unproven. Fun, but unproven. I can absolutley 100% guarantee you this is not even remotely inthe realm of possibility. Now trading the #1 pick for the #2 and taking Cousins or whoever at #2 (rather thna jsut picking COusins at #1 and having to pay more) = possible. But it would be Evans and Wall, or Evans and Cousins, but never Wall and Cousins.
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If you were to ask what would we DO if we got the #1 pick, I'd give good odds that we'd take the guy that Geoff thought was BPA, regardless of team fit. He's done that repeatedly, and did so in a very obvious way just last year. Why would he do differently now?
What I would do if I were in Geoff's shoes, I'm unprepared to say at this point. These guys have measurements and tests ahead, games to play against each other, solo and small group workouts. I don't know if Turner had knee surgery in high school, or if interviewing Cousins might convince one that he had horrible character issues. There's a lot more to it than watching college games.
I would go for BPA regardless of team need this year. I think we really need a defensive big, but I don't see unsurmountable conflicts with playing Wall or Turner, either. I see both as potentially complimentary players. I think there will be at least one major star among this draft's top picks, so I'd try to figure out who that was, and get him. That may not be a very satisfying answer, but it's all I can say at this stage.
I'm not so sure that's written in stone.
Since 1957, the only player put into the HOF as the result of his play as a Royal/King, who ended his career as a Royal/King, was Maurice Stokes (horribly injured early in his career). Oscar Robertson, Nate Archibald, Jerry Lucas, Mitch Richmond and Chris Webber are examples of guys who we'd trade away for one reason or another. Most were past their prime, but they weren't necessarily done. Robertson got a ring immediately after being traded. Archibald did likewise 5 years after he was traded away. Lucas got one 4 years after being traded.*
I had hoped that some of The Team would stay in Sac until they retired, but I can no longer remember any career King whose NBA career wasn't pretty brief. I have given up hoping that that anyone we draft will still be in our uniform a dozen years later.
*To some degree, Lucas is an example of what Brick was saying about problems with a player, as he was no longer excited about playing for the (otherwise very weak) Royals team, although he continued to put up good numbers. But Robertson was said to have been traded because his coach was jealous of all the attention he was getting, so sometimes the reasons were just stupid.
What I would do if I were in Geoff's shoes, I'm unprepared to say at this point. These guys have measurements and tests ahead, games to play against each other, solo and small group workouts. I don't know if Turner had knee surgery in high school, or if interviewing Cousins might convince one that he had horrible character issues. There's a lot more to it than watching college games.
I would go for BPA regardless of team need this year. I think we really need a defensive big, but I don't see unsurmountable conflicts with playing Wall or Turner, either. I see both as potentially complimentary players. I think there will be at least one major star among this draft's top picks, so I'd try to figure out who that was, and get him. That may not be a very satisfying answer, but it's all I can say at this stage.
I'm not so sure that's written in stone.
Since 1957, the only player put into the HOF as the result of his play as a Royal/King, who ended his career as a Royal/King, was Maurice Stokes (horribly injured early in his career). Oscar Robertson, Nate Archibald, Jerry Lucas, Mitch Richmond and Chris Webber are examples of guys who we'd trade away for one reason or another. Most were past their prime, but they weren't necessarily done. Robertson got a ring immediately after being traded. Archibald did likewise 5 years after he was traded away. Lucas got one 4 years after being traded.*
I had hoped that some of The Team would stay in Sac until they retired, but I can no longer remember any career King whose NBA career wasn't pretty brief. I have given up hoping that that anyone we draft will still be in our uniform a dozen years later.
*To some degree, Lucas is an example of what Brick was saying about problems with a player, as he was no longer excited about playing for the (otherwise very weak) Royals team, although he continued to put up good numbers. But Robertson was said to have been traded because his coach was jealous of all the attention he was getting, so sometimes the reasons were just stupid.
Kings Fan Gerard
Bench
Kings Faithful
Starter
Lol... a suggestion from a Laker fan commenting on Evan Turner on NBADRAFT.net
"The Lakers should trade Farmar and Walton for a Top 3 pick and would have a shot at him then it would be Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Artest, Turner and that would be the best in the NBA"
Maybe thats what the Knigs should do... trade our top 3 pick for the talented young prospects of Jordan Farmar and Luke Walton...
"The Lakers should trade Farmar and Walton for a Top 3 pick and would have a shot at him then it would be Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Artest, Turner and that would be the best in the NBA"
Maybe thats what the Knigs should do... trade our top 3 pick for the talented young prospects of Jordan Farmar and Luke Walton...
That's funny.
Using "talented" and "young" in the same sentence with "Luke Walton."
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
the LA smog is making laker fans delusional
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Honestly, excluding the then unknown (and then ridiculously plump) Marc Gasol, this trade would still be more beneficial to the other team than the infamous Memphis Gasol for Peanuts trade.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Unfortunately, one of those ridiculous trade offers got them Gasol for nothing. Please, Petrie, be more ridiculous...
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
lopez better than cousins?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Its possible that Cousins will be the better player down the road, or at worse just as good. But Lopez is a proven commodity and Cousins isn't. And as much as I like Cousins, I would take Lopez over him right now.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I take it you stopped while you were still ahead?
The man went into the bar with his son. It was his son's 21st birthday and they wanted to celebrate. The man sat down at the bar, reached down into his lap and sat a head on the bar. The bartender, for a moment, was agast. The father said, don't be alarmed, he was born this way and its his 21st birthday, so give us each a shot of whiskey. The father downed his and just after the son downed his, suddenly, poof, a body popped out. Excitedly he said, give me another one. He downed it and once again, poof, two arms popped out. Getting very excited now, he grabbed the bottle with his two new hands and poured himself a drink and downed it. and Wa La, sure enough, poof, two legs popped out.
The father and son looked at one another. Both started to cry. They hugged one another in joy. The son wiped his eyes, looked at the bartender and said, one more to celebrate the greatest day in my life. They both raised their glasses, nodded to one another and downed their drinks. And Poof, the son disappeared. The bartender looked sadly at the father who was in shock and said. He should have quit while he was a head......
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