So if ever we get the number 1 pick...
- Thread starter Kings Fan Gerard
- Start date
I'm not afraid to admit that I wanted Oden coming out of college, but I wouldn't make that trade in a million years. There are way too many unknowns involved. The obvious one being whether or not he can stay healthly. He hasn't been able to do so yet in his short career, and nothing points to that changing in the future. The second major question is his potential. He has shown the same promise (when he has played) on defense and rebounding, but his offense has not progessed all that much. He is still young, but I woundn't give up a top 2 pick for strictly a big defensive, rebounding center who may some day play an entire season (or even half of one).
The thing is, the majority of teams that win championships have dominant big men with them.
There are few exceptions such as Jordan's team, the Pistons team in 2004 and 89-90.
Aside from that, you always have a dominant big man who helps the team to a championship.
Wall may be great, but I don't see him and Evans becoming some Jordan-Pippen combo, which is why we need to grab a talented big man and run with that.
There are few exceptions such as Jordan's team, the Pistons team in 2004 and 89-90.
Aside from that, you always have a dominant big man who helps the team to a championship.
Wall may be great, but I don't see him and Evans becoming some Jordan-Pippen combo, which is why we need to grab a talented big man and run with that.
The thing that scares me away from Cousins is he is a bit of a headcase...Favors isnt. Cousins could turn out to be the next Eddie Curry, and that definitely isnt attractive. Favors may take a year or so to get established in the league...but he is 22 and is a defensive minded 6'9/250 that can contain the middle and block shots...sort of like an Al Horford. I'd take that anyday, thank you.
If we got the 1st pick, take Turner, no doubt about it. If we picked #2, it would depend on whether Wall or Turner was taken first, but of course take Turner if he's there at 2.
If Turner goes #1, and we pick 2 with Wall on the board, that is where it gets complicated. I don't want Wall on this roster with Tyreke. I don't see it working, at all. In this scenario, I would be all for trading down to 3 or 4, and getting either Cousins or Favors with whatever else we can get along with one of them.
I want Turner, above everyone else. If he's not available, I want Favors or Cousins over Wall. That doesn't mean don't draft Wall. But if Wall is available, and Turner is not, then either trade down 1-2 spots, or draft Wall with the intent of trading his rights on draft day. Wall is too valuable not to pick if he's there and Turner isn't. But honestly, out of Wall, Turner, Cousins, and Favors, Wall is the one I want the least on this roster.
If Turner goes #1, and we pick 2 with Wall on the board, that is where it gets complicated. I don't want Wall on this roster with Tyreke. I don't see it working, at all. In this scenario, I would be all for trading down to 3 or 4, and getting either Cousins or Favors with whatever else we can get along with one of them.
I want Turner, above everyone else. If he's not available, I want Favors or Cousins over Wall. That doesn't mean don't draft Wall. But if Wall is available, and Turner is not, then either trade down 1-2 spots, or draft Wall with the intent of trading his rights on draft day. Wall is too valuable not to pick if he's there and Turner isn't. But honestly, out of Wall, Turner, Cousins, and Favors, Wall is the one I want the least on this roster.
Naturaly, I'm a Turner guy. Have been since the beginning of the college season. So I'm with you. If we end up with the first pick or the second pick, I take Turner. The only obvious senario in which I don't see Turner being there at 2 is if Minny gets the first pick. I just can't see them taking another point guard. They could really use Turner, or Cousins. Cousins game is very similar to Jefferson's, so that might cause them to pass on Cousins, or it might make Jefferson available on the market. Or, they take Favors, who some have looked at as a potential young Dwight Howard. Personally I don't see that, but what do I know? I can't wait for the ping pong balls to bounce and see where we pick.
Another scenario that interests me is this... I'm not sure if the Wiz would do it... but I like the prospect of Blatche + Landry + JT + Spence frontcourt... Which could also include another big man. stockpile talented bigs and let them sort themselves out
Kings: Rights to #1 pick
Wizards:
Blatche + (Wizard draft for us, Monroe, Udoh, Wesley Johnson, Aldrich)
Kings: Rights to #1 pick
Wizards:
Blatche + (Wizard draft for us, Monroe, Udoh, Wesley Johnson, Aldrich)
It was Jamison plus cash for Carter.
Portland deal had more to it for them to get the #7 pick in the first place.
Trade #1:
Portland Trail Blazers trade Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff, 2008 2nd round pick to the Boston Celtics
for Randy Foye (the 7th pick in the 2006 draft), PG (and former Trail Blazer) Dan Dickau, and Center Raef LaFrentz.
Trade: #2
Portland Trail Blazers trade Randy Foye (acquired through Celtics trade) to Minnesota Timberwolves for University of Washington guard Brandon Roy.
Portland deal had more to it for them to get the #7 pick in the first place.
Trade #1:
Portland Trail Blazers trade Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff, 2008 2nd round pick to the Boston Celtics
for Randy Foye (the 7th pick in the 2006 draft), PG (and former Trail Blazer) Dan Dickau, and Center Raef LaFrentz.
Trade: #2
Portland Trail Blazers trade Randy Foye (acquired through Celtics trade) to Minnesota Timberwolves for University of Washington guard Brandon Roy.
It can't have been very much cash. Let's say I'm the Raptors. I prefer Vince Carter to Antawn Jamison. However, instead of selecting Carter with the #4 pick, I select Jamison, and then deal him to the Warriors for the #5 pick, with which I select Carter. In doing so, I save ~$180K per year for four years. Let's say $900K over the four year contract. Then I also have to send money...well, it's can't have been over $900K, or there's no point. Just take Carter with #4.
Yes, but once they had the #7 pick, they traded it for the #6 pick straight up - essentially they were willing to pay the extra salary scale for Roy, the Timberwolves preferred Foye a bit cheaper (they presumably preferred Foye overall, and found a way to get him for a hint less money).
The point was to look at the value of trading down from a high position to an almost-as-high position in the draft. The answer seems to be that there is not much value outside of paying the player you want a cheaper salary. It doesn't appear that there is a lot of potential to pick up other valuable assets in such a trade.
Yes, but once they had the #7 pick, they traded it for the #6 pick straight up - essentially they were willing to pay the extra salary scale for Roy, the Timberwolves preferred Foye a bit cheaper (they presumably preferred Foye overall, and found a way to get him for a hint less money).
The point was to look at the value of trading down from a high position to an almost-as-high position in the draft. The answer seems to be that there is not much value outside of paying the player you want a cheaper salary. It doesn't appear that there is a lot of potential to pick up other valuable assets in such a trade.
Wall is only 6'3". I don't think you want him at SF. And since his outside shot is very inconsistant right now, I doubt you want him at the SG position either. What makes Wall so sought after is the fact that he looks like an all star point guard. When you draft a player, the best thing you can do is play to his strengths. Playing him out of position isn't doing that. It would sort of like buying and Indy car and then running it in a cross country race. You can do it. But your probably not going to win with it.
Chicago didn't. Detroit didn't. Philly didn't. And currently Cleveland, the team that might win it all this year, doesn't. Even this year's current champion, the Lakers, doesn't have a dominator, but instead has three good to very good bigs. Quality is hard to come by. You can't be choosy and pass on it, otherwise it's going to pass on you.
All of the above teams most certainly did. Well with the exception of Cleveland, but then again they haven't won it yet.
The absolute keys with the big men are first and foremost shotblocking/defense and rebounding. Post play is a huge plus, but what I think has been proven over the more recent past is that what you need is SOMEBODY who is a great post/interior player, but with more guards and SFs with that type of skill you don't necessarily need it to be a big man.
Other than that the closest call were the first three Bulls teams with Ho Grant (a low level All Star). But Dennis Rodamn (one fo the greaest rebounders/defenders of all time); Ben Wallace (one of thegreatest defenders/rebounders of the last couple of decades) Philly? Moses Malone. And the Lakers only have maybe the best froncourt in basketball, when healthy, with the Bynum/Pau/Odom trio.
You just have to dominate inside or you don't win titles. You can pretty much put a period at the end of that.
The absolute keys with the big men are first and foremost shotblocking/defense and rebounding. Post play is a huge plus, but what I think has been proven over the more recent past is that what you need is SOMEBODY who is a great post/interior player, but with more guards and SFs with that type of skill you don't necessarily need it to be a big man.
Other than that the closest call were the first three Bulls teams with Ho Grant (a low level All Star). But Dennis Rodamn (one fo the greaest rebounders/defenders of all time); Ben Wallace (one of thegreatest defenders/rebounders of the last couple of decades) Philly? Moses Malone. And the Lakers only have maybe the best froncourt in basketball, when healthy, with the Bynum/Pau/Odom trio.
You just have to dominate inside or you don't win titles. You can pretty much put a period at the end of that.
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^^^ Yeah I really don't get what's with people saying the Pistons didn't have dominant big men. Big Ben won how many DPOYs? And that aside, he showed up huge in the playoffs. Sheed was also great on those teams- at best, Detroit demonstrates that you don't need an MVP-level big man, but can get by with a tandem of all-stars (current Lakers also support this). Problem is, we have none. Seems to me we have 3 guys who would be good 6th men at PF-C, which is nowhere near where we need to be.
As good as Wall and Turner have been .. As good as everyone thinks they will be .. I just really want a big man. If I had that number 1, or even 2, I would do whatever I could to trade down a spot or two. Even if all we get is some kind of package with an option to switch first rounders and a second rounder .. or a young player .. something to give us a reason to trade down.
Not saying I would be dissapointed with Wall or Turner. That would be selfish. But if I had a choice thats why I would do.
Im going to avoid talking about Turner for a minute because we have a ton of swingmen anyways. Draft Express has Wall best case as Derrick Rose and Cousins as a taller Al Jefferson. Dont you think that taller, better defensive Al Jefferson is a better fit on this team than Rose? I know these are just projections, but you get the point .. What does this team need? an all star point guard or an all star center? If you have seen this team, and im sure every here has, you know we need that help.
In my opinion, the best Evans we saw this year was when he started with Greene, Casspi, Thompson, and Hawes. Before the Landry trade .. his stretch with these guys is what allowed us to trade Martin. When we force the other team to play there point guard on him .. no one can play him straight up. I love what Udrih has done this season, but with him in there were seeing guys like Battier guard him. Much tougher matchup. IF we think Evans is a point guard, and I think he can be ( with another ball handler out there ) I think its best for us to build around that.
I think most would agree that Evans, Udrih, Garcia, Casspi, and Greene is a good enough combo at 1-2-3 for now. So yea, if I had that #1 pick I'd try to trade it down .. Take Cousins or Favors.
Not saying I would be dissapointed with Wall or Turner. That would be selfish. But if I had a choice thats why I would do.
Im going to avoid talking about Turner for a minute because we have a ton of swingmen anyways. Draft Express has Wall best case as Derrick Rose and Cousins as a taller Al Jefferson. Dont you think that taller, better defensive Al Jefferson is a better fit on this team than Rose? I know these are just projections, but you get the point .. What does this team need? an all star point guard or an all star center? If you have seen this team, and im sure every here has, you know we need that help.
In my opinion, the best Evans we saw this year was when he started with Greene, Casspi, Thompson, and Hawes. Before the Landry trade .. his stretch with these guys is what allowed us to trade Martin. When we force the other team to play there point guard on him .. no one can play him straight up. I love what Udrih has done this season, but with him in there were seeing guys like Battier guard him. Much tougher matchup. IF we think Evans is a point guard, and I think he can be ( with another ball handler out there ) I think its best for us to build around that.
I think most would agree that Evans, Udrih, Garcia, Casspi, and Greene is a good enough combo at 1-2-3 for now. So yea, if I had that #1 pick I'd try to trade it down .. Take Cousins or Favors.
I don't think there is much doubt that Wall has the most super-star potential of the group. He is incredibly explosive, can get anywhere he wants to on the floor, and has good point-guard skills. He's not a savant with his passing and his shooting is inconsistant, but he's going to be an upper-tier point guard.
I see a Wall and Tyreke back-court as two potential super-stars that you hope mesh together. Tyreke will best dominate at the PG position, and while you can have him at the SG position it's really going to hurt him as he is terrible playing off the ball and doesn't have the shooting necessary to compensate.
Wall is strictly a point-guard. So if you bring in Wall you have to move Tyreke over to the SG position, and I don't think that will go over very well, especially if Tyreke can't have the ball in his hands as much as he needs.
So two potential super-star talents, but I just don't think that they will be a dominating back-court.
Now you can say that we should draft Wall, see how it plays out, and if we have to trade one, then we get good value.
The problem with that is this:
If this is our last opportunity to draft elite talent, let's not waste a year or two in a 'wait-and-see' mentality, only to come to the conclusion that a trade needs to be made.
That is going to waste value time in developing a team identity and fostering team chemistry.
So for those reasons I would either take Evan Turner overall #1, or draft Wall, but trade for Turner.
Whereas I see Tyreke and Wall not meshing, I see Turner as star talent, and start talent that also perfectly compliments Tyreke's game. Though Wall is more explosive, Turner has better size, better skills, and his athleticism isn't that far from Walls.
As to why I'd select Turner over Wall here are a few reasons:
First of all, Turner is a great mid-range shooter. If you like how Beno can pull up and shoot that jump-shot then you'll love Turner's ability to do the same thing. Turner's shot is a bit flat and he isn't a great 3-pt shooter, but he is a great mid-range shooter.
Second, Turner is 6'7 and is a fantastic defender.
So if you pair Turner with Tyreke and then add Donte Greene, you've got elite defenders at the 1,2, & 3 spots. (Wall is also a great defender as well, but I think you get more versatility with Turner on defense)
Third, Turner is a fantastic ball handler. So he can share the ball handling duties and initiate offensive sets if needed.
Fourth, Turner is an outstanding rebounder. A Tyreke/Turner backcourt will probably be the best rebouding backcourt in the NBA.
Fifth, Turner was absolutely comfortable in letting his teammates do all the scoring as long as Ohio State stayed out of trouble. He is far better at playing off the ball than either Wall or Tyreke, and I think that he would be far more willing to play the 'Pippen' to Tyreke than Wall would. I just think there is a far less likely chance of a clash of egos if you pair Turner with Tyreke compared to Wall.
So Turner brings the Kings a SG who has great size and length, defense, ball-handling, rebounding, and mid-range shooting who will most likely let Tyreke run the show at point guard. Though Wall may be a better talent, I don't see him bring as much to the Kings table as Turner.
I honestly think that a Tyreke/Turner back-court would be the best in the league mid-way through next year.
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I mentioned that I don't think that a Tyreke/Wall pairing will work. So if Turner was off the board, I'd consider picking Wall and then trading to get DeMarcus Cousins. Cousins will be a beast and I think will help this team more than Wall. But, it's one of those really hard things where you might end up regretting that sort of trade.
If I couldn't get a good deal done, I'd have to stick with Wall, but I'd definitely be shopping around for a Cousins + goodies for Wall trade.
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Finally, we desparately need a big man. So if we select Turner, it means that we need to put all our assets together to get a big man. We've got the $$$ to sign a max free-agent, and we've got young cheap talent (Hawes, JT, Landry) that we can also use to trade for a big man.
So if Turner is available, I say draft him, then use all the rest of your resources in getting the big man we need.
I see a Wall and Tyreke back-court as two potential super-stars that you hope mesh together. Tyreke will best dominate at the PG position, and while you can have him at the SG position it's really going to hurt him as he is terrible playing off the ball and doesn't have the shooting necessary to compensate.
Wall is strictly a point-guard. So if you bring in Wall you have to move Tyreke over to the SG position, and I don't think that will go over very well, especially if Tyreke can't have the ball in his hands as much as he needs.
So two potential super-star talents, but I just don't think that they will be a dominating back-court.
Now you can say that we should draft Wall, see how it plays out, and if we have to trade one, then we get good value.
The problem with that is this:
If this is our last opportunity to draft elite talent, let's not waste a year or two in a 'wait-and-see' mentality, only to come to the conclusion that a trade needs to be made.
That is going to waste value time in developing a team identity and fostering team chemistry.
So for those reasons I would either take Evan Turner overall #1, or draft Wall, but trade for Turner.
Whereas I see Tyreke and Wall not meshing, I see Turner as star talent, and start talent that also perfectly compliments Tyreke's game. Though Wall is more explosive, Turner has better size, better skills, and his athleticism isn't that far from Walls.
As to why I'd select Turner over Wall here are a few reasons:
First of all, Turner is a great mid-range shooter. If you like how Beno can pull up and shoot that jump-shot then you'll love Turner's ability to do the same thing. Turner's shot is a bit flat and he isn't a great 3-pt shooter, but he is a great mid-range shooter.
Second, Turner is 6'7 and is a fantastic defender.
So if you pair Turner with Tyreke and then add Donte Greene, you've got elite defenders at the 1,2, & 3 spots. (Wall is also a great defender as well, but I think you get more versatility with Turner on defense)
Third, Turner is a fantastic ball handler. So he can share the ball handling duties and initiate offensive sets if needed.
Fourth, Turner is an outstanding rebounder. A Tyreke/Turner backcourt will probably be the best rebouding backcourt in the NBA.
Fifth, Turner was absolutely comfortable in letting his teammates do all the scoring as long as Ohio State stayed out of trouble. He is far better at playing off the ball than either Wall or Tyreke, and I think that he would be far more willing to play the 'Pippen' to Tyreke than Wall would. I just think there is a far less likely chance of a clash of egos if you pair Turner with Tyreke compared to Wall.
So Turner brings the Kings a SG who has great size and length, defense, ball-handling, rebounding, and mid-range shooting who will most likely let Tyreke run the show at point guard. Though Wall may be a better talent, I don't see him bring as much to the Kings table as Turner.
I honestly think that a Tyreke/Turner back-court would be the best in the league mid-way through next year.
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I mentioned that I don't think that a Tyreke/Wall pairing will work. So if Turner was off the board, I'd consider picking Wall and then trading to get DeMarcus Cousins. Cousins will be a beast and I think will help this team more than Wall. But, it's one of those really hard things where you might end up regretting that sort of trade.
If I couldn't get a good deal done, I'd have to stick with Wall, but I'd definitely be shopping around for a Cousins + goodies for Wall trade.
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Finally, we desparately need a big man. So if we select Turner, it means that we need to put all our assets together to get a big man. We've got the $$$ to sign a max free-agent, and we've got young cheap talent (Hawes, JT, Landry) that we can also use to trade for a big man.
So if Turner is available, I say draft him, then use all the rest of your resources in getting the big man we need.
I see the Wall/Tyreke pairing the same as I'd see a Tyreke/Westbrook pairing. Both players are dominating at their position, but if you put them in the same backcourt together I don't think it works out that well.
While Wall is definitely more explosive and a more instinctive passer/PG compared to Tyreke, I just don't see Wall being 'that' much better than Tyreke.
Tyreke at his size and strength is a mis-match at the PG position against every other team in the league. If we could get a full-sized SG to pair with Tyreke to force the other team to actually put their PG on Tyreke or abuse if they put their PG on our SG, then the team would get exponentially better.
I see teams having more success stopping Wall at the PG spot as opposed to Tyreke, and for that reason alone, I just can't see Wall being head and shoulders above Tyreke. Of course this is one of the reasons I'm an advocate of Turner. Both Tyreke or Turner would abuse any PG that tried to guard them.
With all that said, it would not at all surprise me if Wall ends up a superstar where-ever he lands. Even if we passed on him, and he became a superstar...if Tyreke becomes a superstar and either Turner or Cousins helps get us a championship I'll be perfectly content.
While Wall is definitely more explosive and a more instinctive passer/PG compared to Tyreke, I just don't see Wall being 'that' much better than Tyreke.
Tyreke at his size and strength is a mis-match at the PG position against every other team in the league. If we could get a full-sized SG to pair with Tyreke to force the other team to actually put their PG on Tyreke or abuse if they put their PG on our SG, then the team would get exponentially better.
I see teams having more success stopping Wall at the PG spot as opposed to Tyreke, and for that reason alone, I just can't see Wall being head and shoulders above Tyreke. Of course this is one of the reasons I'm an advocate of Turner. Both Tyreke or Turner would abuse any PG that tried to guard them.
With all that said, it would not at all surprise me if Wall ends up a superstar where-ever he lands. Even if we passed on him, and he became a superstar...if Tyreke becomes a superstar and either Turner or Cousins helps get us a championship I'll be perfectly content.
The Evans vs other PG's is way over played. As people point out, their PG's arent the ones guarding him now if they arent a good defender. And if you want someone else on Evans just set a screen or 2.
Kevin Martin is a full size SG and a shooter. He has abused PG's that try to guard him. People think that didnt work so why would Turner be any different? They weren't exceptionally better. And your taking about adding a rookie not a vet.
Teams have problems stopping CP3, Parker, DWill so why would Wall be any different?
Oh, and Wall is a decent defender too.
Kevin Martin is a full size SG and a shooter. He has abused PG's that try to guard him. People think that didnt work so why would Turner be any different? They weren't exceptionally better. And your taking about adding a rookie not a vet.
Teams have problems stopping CP3, Parker, DWill so why would Wall be any different?
Oh, and Wall is a decent defender too.
To me the best case scenario would be to get the first pick. Draft Wall(hold hostage for our benifit 
) Hope that a team in the next couple of picks has another first rounder. Have them draft the player you want preferably Turner then swap plus players(Noc) and get there 2nd 1st round pick. Get Whiteside with are 2nd first round pick. With are 2nd rounder pick a sleeper like Renardo sidney. So we would be set in my opinion are Starting lineup and backups would be:
Tyreke Evans/Beno
Evan Turner/Garcia
Donte Green/Casspi
Jason Thompson/Landry/sidney
Hassan Whiteside/Spencer Hawes
) Hope that a team in the next couple of picks has another first rounder. Have them draft the player you want preferably Turner then swap plus players(Noc) and get there 2nd 1st round pick. Get Whiteside with are 2nd first round pick. With are 2nd rounder pick a sleeper like Renardo sidney. So we would be set in my opinion are Starting lineup and backups would be:Tyreke Evans/Beno
Evan Turner/Garcia
Donte Green/Casspi
Jason Thompson/Landry/sidney
Hassan Whiteside/Spencer Hawes