Shot blocking is really not the problem

[Prince_XY]

I think the other elephant in the room left unnoticed is that we don't have any other big who is a reliable scorer down low.
JT is inconsistent and Chuck and Hassan are offensively non-factors.

Once Cuz gets into foul trouble, teams easily double Evans and that's it for us.

If we can't get a shot blocker, I hope Petrie gets some big dude that could contribute offensively when DMC sits.

There is hope on that.

I would say just draft Drummond and develop the kid. It would be like shooting two birds with one stone.

 

[mac]

Having a shotblocking presence is nice, but it isn't a necessity. If the player providing that presence doesn't rebound or score especially well, it really doesn't help you all that much.

Take this year's finals as an example. OKC had more overall talent, but their bigs didn't rebound or score well enough to win. Ibaka is a nice, athletic player but he's more of a one trick pony at this point in time. He blocks shots and that's about it. In all other aspects, he's pretty average. Same with Perkins. Good post defender, but he's a liability on offense and doesn't rebound as well as he should.

if OKC had Tyson Chander (didn't they try to trade for him?), Joakim Noah, or even our own DeMarcus Cousins they would have been much better off, IMO. All of those guys can rebound exceptionally well and score a little bit. Cousins isn't the shotblocker the other 2 are, but he can dominate in the paint.

Wow. I'm sorry, but I disagree on SO many levels.

1. OKC didn't lose bcause of their bigs not scoring/ rebounding enough. They lost because their offense (which I happen to think is a stupid one when facing a team like the Heat but what do I know) basically relies on 2 perimeter players going 1 on 1 against their defenders in order to score or create for their team mates. Problem #1 - their defenders happen to be 2 perimeter all-NBA defenders. Problem #2 - their other players didn't knock down the rare open shots they have, be it Ibaka for mid range shots or Thabo/ Harden for 3s. The bigs were at fault for not setting hard screens and not boxing out, but in terms of the rebounds themselves I think it's more of Durant, Ibaka and Westbrook's faults for not boxing Wade, Bosh and James out on offensive boards.

2. Serge Ibaka is not the one trick pony you make him out to be. Just ask the Spurs. But it is true that he does mainly one thing exceptionally well, which is block shots. And that's why Ibaka and Perkins are role players and not all stars.

3. :O if OKC had DMC they would have been much better off??? You don't say?!?!?! If OKC had Dwight they'd be better off too. OKC doesn't have a post presence, and you're suggesting that if they had one they'd be a better team. You said it yourself, Cousins can dominate in the paint. I mean c'mon man, obviously no one in their right mind would pick Tyson Chandler or Serge Ibaka over Shaq, Admiral etc.

In any case, nobody here is advocating just going after a guy who blocks shots and doesn't do anything else. If that were the case we'd all just settle for Whiteside, or you'd see Hasheem Thabeet and Javale Mcgee's names coming up in a lot more of the trade proposals.

 

[mac]

You know, I'm getting just a little sick of this condesending crap. If someone disagrees with your premise, or anyone's premise about shotblockers, then their lost, or know nothing about basketball. They're more ignorant than a five year old. I think having a good shotblocker is wonderful, but many championships have been won without one. And by god, I'll post every damm one, if I have to prove my point. This may be the only fourm that fixates on having a shotblocker. And once again, I'd love to have one. But do you pass up a very good basketball player, because he's not a shotblocker. Thats pure nonsense.

You can't always get what you want when you want it. And the worse thing you can do, is draft a wannabe. I'd like to point out that mister shotblocker on this fourm would have drafted Thabeet if he could have. Not based on known information, but out of lust and desire for the golden ring represented by a shotblocker. I don't question the logic behind the desire, but I do question blindness thats derived from that same desire. If we were to pass up Beal for Henson, that would be blindness.

There was a shotblocker that I lusted for. Anthony Davis! Well thats not going to happen. So I moved on! Shotblocker in the draft was no longer at the top of my list. Why? Because at number 5, there simply isn't a shotblocker good enough to be drafted that high. Sorry, but thats the god honest truth. And no, I'm not going to reach for Henson when there are better all around players available. If we want a shotblocker, then we'll have to get one through freeagency or trade.

I kinda agree with you, but I also think that you cannot build a team blindly without looking at your team needs, or you'll always be rebuilding the foundation and never adding on to it. This of course, is with regards specifically to teams who need to build primarily through the draft (us), due to the style of the GM as well as the market/city factor. Let's face it, Petrie is really not the greatest master in the art of trading. So though I agree that we shouldn't pass on (for example) Beal to draft Henson, I wouldn't say that we shouldn't reach a tiny bit (the differnece between Henson and Beal is too great) to get a player who fits better.

Having said that, our team needs a shotblocker. I quite strongly believe that for us it's not a matter of "good to have", but a must have at this point. Why? Well, Cousins is really not a good defender, and I get the feeling that the league is going to stop calling as many charges in the years to come, which is frankly DMC's greatest defensive skill. We've also been incapable of playing good team defense for the last 10 years, and I'm uncertain that we will ever play good team defense under coach Keith Smart. The quickest and easiest way to improve our defense is going to be through shot blocking, or at very least having an athletic, long player who can challenge and alter shots.

Personally though, I'd still go after the defensive, 3pt shooting SF before going after a shotblocker, because I think the combined impact he'd have on both ends of the floor would outweigh that of a shotblocker.

 

[Bricklayer]

This may be the only fourm that fixates on having a shotblocker.

That would probably be because this forum, unfortunately, is a forum for the support of a team that has put up these absolutely bleak defensive numbers over the last 10 years:

Year OppFg%Rnk/BlkRate
------------------------------
11-12 30th/22nd
10-11 28th/19th
09-10 20th/24th
08-09 30th/26th
07-08 22nd/28th
06-07 26th/28th
05-06 16th/26th* (the Artest half season revival)
04-05 23rd/26th*
03-04 25th/26th*
02-03 1st/10th*

* prior to 05-06 had to use raw blocks instead of block rate (which adjusts for pace) because hoopdata's stats only go back to 06-07.


Anyway, that's 10 years. A DECADE. 1) Man I'm getting old. 2) That's bleeping ridiculous. Has to be one of the worst defensive decades by any non-Nellie ruined team in league history. And the worst part is it all started off the best team we ever had in 02-03. Best defensive, best overall, was 10 years ago. And in just a completely bizarre development we threw it all away and completely forgot how we got there. For 10 years! Of course a board dedicated to that team is going to be fascinated with shotblocking. No...I take that back. Sacramento fans have been ruined to some degree by the organization. The dupes in charge do not understand, and so its mouthpieces spew out constant garbage so fans without other basketball outlets often do not understand. But its no coincidence at all that the last time we were any good defenisvely we were a good shotblocking team. Not a great one. We never were great. But we had the length to challenge up front, and a pure shotblocker that year in particular in Keon. And many of us are old enough to remember those days.

P.S. That's not a particular argument for Drummond or Henson, but its absolutely one for what they represent. Interior length and intimidation.

 

[ParniValjak]

People ignoring shot blocking are really ovelooking the most important aspect of contending teams...defense! You just have to be able to stop people!

Now you can absolutely win without shot blocking but better make damn sure that your players are ELITE defenders! Not good! Not very good but ELITE!

As difficult as it is to find the shot blocker, it is far more difficult to build a contending team without one because you need elite talent that is equally as good on both sides of the ball!

We don't have that luxury! Our best player is never going to be All Defence Team type! Our 2nd best player could develop into such player and our 3rd best player does not know how to spell defence let alone play it!

Since our best player is not a 2 way player and the rest of the team other than Reke could never be elite defenders then you better make sure you get a shot blocker or you will be perennial brides maid!

 

[Glenn]

Brick, you're getting old? I don't mean to be morbid but there are a few of us that may be worrying that we may not live long enough to see a good Kings team. That didn't seem to be so important in the early years - those years with NBA record suckatude - when they arrived here. The brief "Glory Years" made us seem almost normal. Now, here we go again. Suckatude has returned and it seems like everyody is catching on that we are settling in for another long period of yuck!

Ah, yes, success was just around the corner if only .....

Look back over the history of the franchise in Sacramento. Why only 5 or so good years in 27 years? The latest string is blamed on the Maloofs. Who do we blame for the first string? I presume Axelson but the team has been run on a shoe string since the beginning except that brief period when the playboys had money.

Anyway there are days when I type away to add my wisdom, wit, and occasional cantankerousness to this forum when I think "what the hell for?" It's an intellectual exercise and nothing more. When I was in college, intellectual discussions were part of the learning process. Happily, I still enjoy it but I have lost my youthful delusion that my intellectual discussions will do any good in the real world. When 10 people on this forum could form a management group and do better than the team FO, you just have to wonder. Why did Cuban end up in Dallas and not just down the street from where he made his billions? Is it a curse? Is it the water? In any case, I'm running out of time and when Bricklayer says he is getting old (a first, I think) you know we are in dire straights. Ah, poor Brickie, it only gets worse.

I will blame the last 10 years on Petrie and I am a Petrie supporter. The boys weren't out of money at the beginning of this sucking run but he has an uncanny eye for offensive players. No doubt about it. As to defense, not as good or maybe just plain horrible. Or does he not get that there needs to be a balance? In any case, there hasn't been a balance and to look at Brickmeister's latest blast of stats brings it home. I hope SAR has some influence going forward if we should ever find owners who could afford to follow a rational different plan. "No way in hell" say the Maloofs.

So what are we discussing? Why do we continue? We love basketball, don't we? I can't break this addiction to the Kings and will keep opining as to how they can improve at the same time knowing it is not my opinion that counts nor is it my pocketbook that will finance this deal. We all know how the problem can be solved. It isn't a shotblocker, a defensive minded whirlwind, a slick PG, or even a Reke jumper that will carry us to the promised land which is making the playoffs and nothing more.

Do the people in San Antonio appreciate what they have had? Or Portland? I doubt it. To the Lakers' fans, a 42-42 season is a tragedy.

For now, let us take MKG or who ever the top 4 leave us and let's pull a trade to fill another gap and help rid ourselves of the storage pit of guards and SFs that we have accumulated. That's a start. Revenue sharing may start the long process to repectability and I hope we aren't playing in PBP - the symbol of our supreme wretchedness .

 

[roasthawg]

Brick, you're getting old? I don't mean to be morbid but there are a few of us that may be worrying that we may not live long enough to see a good Kings team. That didn't seem to be so important in the early years - those years with NBA record suckatude - when they arrived here. The brief "Glory Years" made us seem almost normal. Now, here we go again. Suckatude has returned and it seems like everyody is catching on that we are settling in for another long period of yuck!

Ah, yes, success was just around the corner if only .....

Look back over the history of the franchise in Sacramento. Why only 5 or so good years in 27 years? The latest string is blamed on the Maloofs. Who do we blame for the first string? I presume Axelson but the team has been run on a shoe string since the beginning except that brief period when the playboys had money.

Anyway there are days when I type away to add my wisdom, wit, and occasional cantankerousness to this forum when I think "what the hell for?" It's an intellectual exercise and nothing more. When I was in college, intellectual discussions were part of the learning process. Happily, I still enjoy it but I have lost my youthful delusion that my intellectual discussions will do any good in the real world. When 10 people on this forum could form a management group and do better than the team FO, you just have to wonder. Why did Cuban end up in Dallas and not just down the street from where he made his billions? Is it a curse? Is it the water? In any case, I'm running out of time and when Bricklayer says he is getting old (a first, I think) you know we are in dire straights. Ah, poor Brickie, it only gets worse.

I will blame the last 10 years on Petrie and I am a Petrie supporter. The boys weren't out of money at the beginning of this sucking run but he has an uncanny eye for offensive players. No doubt about it. As to defense, not as good or maybe just plain horrible. Or does he not get that there needs to be a balance? In any case, there hasn't been a balance and to look at Brickmeister's latest blast of stats brings it home. I hope SAR has some influence going forward if we should ever find owners who could afford to follow a rational different plan. "No way in hell" say the Maloofs.

So what are we discussing? Why do we continue? We love basketball, don't we? I can't break this addiction to the Kings and will keep opining as to how they can improve at the same time knowing it is not my opinion that counts nor is it my pocketbook that will finance this deal. We all know how the problem can be solved. It isn't a shotblocker, a defensive minded whirlwind, a slick PG, or even a Reke jumper that will carry us to the promised land which is making the playoffs and nothing more.

Do the people in San Antonio appreciate what they have had? Or Portland? I doubt it. To the Lakers' fans, a 42-42 season is a tragedy.

For now, let us take MKG or who ever the top 4 leave us and let's pull a trade to fill another gap and help rid ourselves of the storage pit of guards and SFs that we have accumulated. That's a start. Revenue sharing may start the long process to repectability and I hope we aren't playing in PBP - the symbol of our supreme wretchedness .

Great post. Quickest way to change the culture, assuming the owners won't yet sell the franchise, might be to bring in a big name gm. Probably have to give a guy his first chance, roll the dice. But you can get a respected ex-player and hope it works... maybe make sac a viable option for fa's.

 

[Kingster]

Brick, you're getting old? I don't mean to be morbid but there are a few of us that may be worrying that we may not live long enough to see a good Kings team. That didn't seem to be so important in the early years - those years with NBA record suckatude - when they arrived here. The brief "Glory Years" made us seem almost normal. Now, here we go again. Suckatude has returned and it seems like everyody is catching on that we are settling in for another long period of yuck!

Ah, yes, success was just around the corner if only .....

Look back over the history of the franchise in Sacramento. Why only 5 or so good years in 27 years? The latest string is blamed on the Maloofs. Who do we blame for the first string? I presume Axelson but the team has been run on a shoe string since the beginning except that brief period when the playboys had money.

Anyway there are days when I type away to add my wisdom, wit, and occasional cantankerousness to this forum when I think "what the hell for?" It's an intellectual exercise and nothing more. When I was in college, intellectual discussions were part of the learning process. Happily, I still enjoy it but I have lost my youthful delusion that my intellectual discussions will do any good in the real world. When 10 people on this forum could form a management group and do better than the team FO, you just have to wonder. Why did Cuban end up in Dallas and not just down the street from where he made his billions? Is it a curse? Is it the water? In any case, I'm running out of time and when Bricklayer says he is getting old (a first, I think) you know we are in dire straights. Ah, poor Brickie, it only gets worse.

I will blame the last 10 years on Petrie and I am a Petrie supporter. The boys weren't out of money at the beginning of this sucking run but he has an uncanny eye for offensive players. No doubt about it. As to defense, not as good or maybe just plain horrible. Or does he not get that there needs to be a balance? In any case, there hasn't been a balance and to look at Brickmeister's latest blast of stats brings it home. I hope SAR has some influence going forward if we should ever find owners who could afford to follow a rational different plan. "No way in hell" say the Maloofs.

So what are we discussing? Why do we continue? We love basketball, don't we? I can't break this addiction to the Kings and will keep opining as to how they can improve at the same time knowing it is not my opinion that counts nor is it my pocketbook that will finance this deal. We all know how the problem can be solved. It isn't a shotblocker, a defensive minded whirlwind, a slick PG, or even a Reke jumper that will carry us to the promised land which is making the playoffs and nothing more.

Do the people in San Antonio appreciate what they have had? Or Portland? I doubt it. To the Lakers' fans, a 42-42 season is a tragedy.

For now, let us take MKG or who ever the top 4 leave us and let's pull a trade to fill another gap and help rid ourselves of the storage pit of guards and SFs that we have accumulated. That's a start. Revenue sharing may start the long process to repectability and I hope we aren't playing in PBP - the symbol of our supreme wretchedness .

I can't speak for others, but I'm hanging out here being a Kings fan because I don't think the Maloof saga is going to continue indefinitely. In fact, I think it's going to end sooner rather than later. So, for better or worse, I want to be here when the graves are dug, the coffins are lowered, the earth is shoveled, the tombstones are chiseled, and finally the newly planted seeds begin to show themselves with dainty green shoots of growth.

 

[bajaden]

That would probably be because this forum, unfortunately, is a forum for the support of a team that has put up these absolutely bleak defensive numbers over the last 10 years:

Year OppFg%Rnk/BlkRate
------------------------------
11-12 30th/22nd
10-11 28th/19th
09-10 20th/24th
08-09 30th/26th
07-08 22nd/28th
06-07 26th/28th
05-06 16th/26th* (the Artest half season revival)
04-05 23rd/26th*
03-04 25th/26th*
02-03 1st/10th*

* prior to 05-06 had to use raw blocks instead of block rate (which adjusts for pace) because hoopdata's stats only go back to 06-07.


Anyway, that's 10 years. A DECADE. 1) Man I'm getting old. 2) That's bleeping ridiculous. Has to be one of the worst defensive decades by any non-Nellie ruined team in league history. And the worst part is it all started off the best team we ever had in 02-03. Best defensive, best overall, was 10 years ago. And in just a completely bizarre development we threw it all away and completely forgot how we got there. For 10 years! Of course a board dedicated to that team is going to be fascinated with shotblocking. No...I take that back. Sacramento fans have been ruined to some degree by the organization. The dupes in charge do not understand, and so its mouthpieces spew out constant garbage so fans without other basketball outlets often do not understand. But its no coincidence at all that the last time we were any good defenisvely we were a good shotblocking team. Not a great one. We never were great. But we had the length to challenge up front, and a pure shotblocker that year in particular in Keon. And many of us are old enough to remember those days.

P.S. That's not a particular argument for Drummond or Henson, but its absolutely one for what they represent. Interior length and intimidation.

I don't disagree with much of what you said. And I don't ignore the need for better defense, and in particular, a post presence in that need. As I stated, thats why I wanted Anthony Davis. My point is, that sometimes you have to look elsewhere for your selective needs other than the draft, if what your looking for, just isn't there talent wise. I think being lead by a fixation can lead to bad decisions. If you truely think that a Bradley Beal or a Harrison Barnes is far more game ready, and has a chance to be a very good, if not a star player, you take either of them over a Drummond or a Henson. Because even if you don't have a particular need for Beal, you can always turn him into what you need later, if your judgement proves correct. And this is all about judgement.

There are no guarantee's with any player. Even if their talent lives up to your judgement, there's no guarantee against injury. Just ask Portland. As you said we were once a very good defensive team. And our shotblocking was OK, if not above average. But there were no intimidating shotblockers on that team. It was a team effort. Would a 30 plus minute a game shotblocker have made a significant difference? Yeah, probably. But we didn't have one, and we almost won the whole banana with excellent team defense. Now if you want to argue that well never reach that level under Smart, thats a different conversation

In closing, if you want to know why I'm so high on Davis and not on Drummond, its because Davis has very high BBIQ, and Drummond doesn't. Davis is motivated like an energizer bunny, but plays with intelligent intention. Drummond is purely reactionary, with little read of whats happening around him. Now I'll grant you this. In three years, he just might develop into a starting player that has some impact, and if you have the patience to give him that long, then fine! But that all depends on his motivation, and there in lies the problem. As I said, if I have to choos between a Beal or a Drummond, I'm not letting my desire for a shotblocker blind my decision making. I'm taking Beal and I'll figure out the rest later.

 

[bajaden]

Brick, you're getting old? I don't mean to be morbid but there are a few of us that may be worrying that we may not live long enough to see a good Kings team. That didn't seem to be so important in the early years - those years with NBA record suckatude - when they arrived here. The brief "Glory Years" made us seem almost normal. Now, here we go again. Suckatude has returned and it seems like everyody is catching on that we are settling in for another long period of yuck!

Ah, yes, success was just around the corner if only .....

Look back over the history of the franchise in Sacramento. Why only 5 or so good years in 27 years? The latest string is blamed on the Maloofs. Who do we blame for the first string? I presume Axelson but the team has been run on a shoe string since the beginning except that brief period when the playboys had money.

Anyway there are days when I type away to add my wisdom, wit, and occasional cantankerousness to this forum when I think "what the hell for?" It's an intellectual exercise and nothing more. When I was in college, intellectual discussions were part of the learning process. Happily, I still enjoy it but I have lost my youthful delusion that my intellectual discussions will do any good in the real world. When 10 people on this forum could form a management group and do better than the team FO, you just have to wonder. Why did Cuban end up in Dallas and not just down the street from where he made his billions? Is it a curse? Is it the water? In any case, I'm running out of time and when Bricklayer says he is getting old (a first, I think) you know we are in dire straights. Ah, poor Brickie, it only gets worse.

I will blame the last 10 years on Petrie and I am a Petrie supporter. The boys weren't out of money at the beginning of this sucking run but he has an uncanny eye for offensive players. No doubt about it. As to defense, not as good or maybe just plain horrible. Or does he not get that there needs to be a balance? In any case, there hasn't been a balance and to look at Brickmeister's latest blast of stats brings it home. I hope SAR has some influence going forward if we should ever find owners who could afford to follow a rational different plan. "No way in hell" say the Maloofs.

So what are we discussing? Why do we continue? We love basketball, don't we? I can't break this addiction to the Kings and will keep opining as to how they can improve at the same time knowing it is not my opinion that counts nor is it my pocketbook that will finance this deal. We all know how the problem can be solved. It isn't a shotblocker, a defensive minded whirlwind, a slick PG, or even a Reke jumper that will carry us to the promised land which is making the playoffs and nothing more.

Do the people in San Antonio appreciate what they have had? Or Portland? I doubt it. To the Lakers' fans, a 42-42 season is a tragedy.

For now, let us take MKG or who ever the top 4 leave us and let's pull a trade to fill another gap and help rid ourselves of the storage pit of guards and SFs that we have accumulated. That's a start. Revenue sharing may start the long process to repectability and I hope we aren't playing in PBP - the symbol of our supreme wretchedness .

You mentioned Joe Axelson, a man that singlehandedly set back the franchise for years to come. The same man that traded away 30 pts, 12 rebounds, and 11 assists in Oscar Robertson. A man that makes Petrie look like a genius. A man that traded two of our best players at the time, and a first round pick for Derek Smith, who had a knee injury. Thanks for reminding me!

 

[bajaden]

I can't speak for others, but I'm hanging out here being a Kings fan because I don't think the Maloof saga is going to continue indefinitely. In fact, I think it's going to end sooner rather than later. So, for better or worse, I want to be here when the graves are dug, the coffins are lowered, the earth is shoveled, the tombstones are chiseled, and finally the newly planted seeds begin to show themselves with dainty green shoots of growth.

My name is Bajaden, and I approve this post!!!

 

[Glenn]

I don't think Brick would say let's pass on Beal/MKG/Barnes because we are full at SG or SF and get Henson because he is a shot blocker. The skill level is way different. Maybe a trade of #5 for a darn fine vet. Besides, what we do this year is not going to be putting us into the NBA Finals (exaggeration). We need to make the best decision based on who is available and then we have a year or two to sort out the mismatches. Cousins and Evans won't be ready for a few years anyway. But, there darn better be a trade or two to clean out a guard and at least one SF this year. The process has to start. If we honestly think Honeycutt and Jimmer have something to offer or even want to find out, we can't continue with the glut at their positions. It just doesn't have to be done in one year although I wish it was. I really, really wish it was because this is getting old.

 

[Glenn]

You mentioned Joe Axelson, a man that singlehandedly set back the franchise for years to come. The same man that traded away 30 pts, 12 rebounds, and 11 assists in Oscar Robertson. A man that makes Petrie look like a genius. A man that traded two of our best players at the time, and a first round pick for Derek Smith, who had a knee injury. Thanks for reminding me!

Ahhhh, barf, the famous Derek Smith trade. Ya know, we had a decent team coming into Sacto and then it got dismantled because Axelson got impatient.

 

[Uncia03]

Here's the issue.

Wade: 3 times All NBA 2nd Team Defender
At 6'4", shortest player in NBA history to record 100+ block in a season
Only guard in NBA history to ave 1 block per game for career

Lebron: 4 times All NBA 1st Team Defender
Considered best wing defender and most versatile defender in NBA

and Mia still needed a still very good wing defender in Battier, a very good defensive PG in Chalmers, and a very good defensive PF in Haslem to get to where they are. Anthony was also a defensive presence and center most of the year.

May I ask how one goes about replicating that? Only other time it's happened in recent memory was the MJ/Pippen combo, and they also were surrounded by a great defenders in Rodman/Horrace Grant at PF, and very good PG defender in Harper, and other above average defenders like Armstrong, Longley, Wennington, Perdue, Cartwright during their championship runs among others.

I just don't see the evidence that unless you have two All NBA defenders on the wing surrounded by other very good defenders as well, that you don't need a shotblocker, nor do I see how the MJ/Pippen and LJ/Wade dynamic is something a team can plan on replicating.

I agree with this assessment.

You don't have to have an elite shot-blocker on your team to win. But if you don't have at least an intimidating/physical front-court then you HAVE to have superior wing defenders and fantastic team defense.

So when we look at our team we know that the goal is to become a good defensive team, so the question is: How can we go about doing it.

In most cases it's a lot easier to bring in 1 starting player who can play big and be the defensive stopper, than it is to find players who can all play great defense as well as provide enough versatile offense to win games in the NBA.

Now I will say this.

If we ended up drafting MKG and re-signing TWill & JT we could end up with a starting line-up of:
Tyreke
TWill
MKG
JT
Cousins

That 1-2-3 position would probably be one of the best defensive 1-2-3 in the league and since both JT & Cousins are physical big men, I think we could become a good enough defensive team if Smart is able to teach them how to play good team defense.

I'd love to bring in a more defensive-oriented player along-side Cousins and have JT filling that great 3rd big role, but if I'm just looking at next season, I would be fine with that starting line-up as a first step towards becoming a good defensive team.

 

[CruzDude]

WOW! Good post Uncia03.

There is one more aspect to having a shot blocker who also changes drives to the bucket: knowing that the shot blocker is there the perimeter defenders can be more ageessive and "in-you-face" knowing the shot blocker has their back. I give you the 00-04 Kings with CWebb and Vlade down low. If Whiteside can/does mature into that then GP is a genius for grabbing him in the second round. If Outlaw decides to play hard for a change, he has the hops to be a shot blocker as we saw from time to time.

The Kings Kids need a leader, a vet to guide and chide and direct on the court. Someone with the smarts to help them win the last 4-5 minutes of games. A shot blocker would be nice but only iff the perimeter defenders step up their game at the same time. The Camby mentions below are right on.

 

[bajaden]

I agree with this assessment.

You don't have to have an elite shot-blocker on your team to win. But if you don't have at least an intimidating/physical front-court then you HAVE to have superior wing defenders and fantastic team defense.

So when we look at our team we know that the goal is to become a good defensive team, so the question is: How can we go about doing it.

In most cases it's a lot easier to bring in 1 starting player who can play big and be the defensive stopper, than it is to find players who can all play great defense as well as provide enough versatile offense to win games in the NBA.

Now I will say this.

If we ended up drafting MKG and re-signing TWill & JT we could end up with a starting line-up of:
Tyreke
TWill
MKG
JT
Cousins

That 1-2-3 position would probably be one of the best defensive 1-2-3 in the league and since both JT & Cousins are physical big men, I think we could become a good enough defensive team if Smart is able to teach them how to play good team defense.

I'd love to bring in a more defensive-oriented player along-side Cousins and have JT filling that great 3rd big role, but if I'm just looking at next season, I would be fine with that starting line-up as a first step towards becoming a good defensive team.

To add to that lineup, signing someone like Camby to a 2 yr contract could be a nice stopgap measure. If he could come in off the bench and give us 18 to 20 minutes a game, I could live with our defense in the short term, while we gave Whiteside more time, or looked to future drafts or freeagency periods. I still haven't given up on Whiteside, and, if he shows decent to good improvement, he could certainly help our post defense. If MKG isn't there, then it would be nice if we could turn our 5th pick into Batum, who would also be a perfect fit. Something like our 5th pick in the draft along with Honeycutt. Don't know if Portland would bite, but if they're in a rebuilding mode, who knows.

 

[Uncia03]

To add to that lineup, signing someone like Camby to a 2 yr contract could be a nice stopgap measure. If he could come in off the bench and give us 18 to 20 minutes a game, I could live with our defense in the short term, while we gave Whiteside more time, or looked to future drafts or freeagency periods. I still haven't given up on Whiteside, and, if he shows decent to good improvement, he could certainly help our post defense. If MKG isn't there, then it would be nice if we could turn our 5th pick into Batum, who would also be a perfect fit. Something like our 5th pick in the draft along with Honeycutt. Don't know if Portland would bite, but if they're in a rebuilding mode, who knows.

I would love to bring in a defensive veteran who's goal is to help prime Whiteside for future success, and Camby would be a great addition and would also be able to play minutes to help this team in the short term.

I think that if we can re-sign TWill and get him into the starting line-up/heavy minutes and bring in a full-sized defensive SF, we can get by next year on defense if we also bring back JT. It might not be perfect, but at least it's steps in the right direction when compared to our defensive debacle last year.

 

[funkykingston]

I would love to bring in a defensive veteran who's goal is to help prime Whiteside for future success, and Camby would be a great addition and would also be able to play minutes to help this team in the short term.

I think that if we can re-sign TWill and get him into the starting line-up/heavy minutes and bring in a full-sized defensive SF, we can get by next year on defense if we also bring back JT. It might not be perfect, but at least it's steps in the right direction when compared to our defensive debacle last year.

You and I think a lot alike. I'd love MKG at the three with TWill and Tyreke as the guards. And if Geoff likes Drummond enough to draft him I'd also be very happy with the Kings trading for a late first to also add Jeff Taylor.

I think MKG will be the much better player down the road but Taylor is more ready to contribute now and is a much better shooter while still adding athleticism and defense at the 3.

Evans
Williams
Taylor
Cousins
Drummond

is a starting lineup I'd love to see. Strong defensively, athletic, rebounds well, enough passing and shooting and hopefully good weak side D and shotblocking from Drummond. And having Thorton, Thomas, and JT (hopefully resigned) off the bench makes it a deep team as well. Hayes, Salmons/Outlaw fill in the gaps and any contributions from Jimmer and Whiteside are bonuses.

 

[baller13]

People ignoring shot blocking are really ovelooking the most important aspect of contending teams...defense! You just have to be able to stop people!

Now you can absolutely win without shot blocking but better make damn sure that your players are ELITE defenders! Not good! Not very good but ELITE!

As difficult as it is to find the shot blocker, it is far more difficult to build a contending team without one because you need elite talent that is equally as good on both sides of the ball!

We don't have that luxury! Our best player is never going to be All Defence Team type! Our 2nd best player could develop into such player and our 3rd best player does not know how to spell defence let alone play it!

Since our best player is not a 2 way player and the rest of the team other than Reke could never be elite defenders then you better make sure you get a shot blocker or you will be perennial brides maid!

Or how about you get rid of the garbage. Nobody on this team should be safe except for Reke and Cuz and the new draft pick since there seem to be 5 really good players and we are guaranteed to get 1 of them. And i wouldnt say Cuz isnt or wont be a 2 way player. He will never be Dwight Howard but that doesnt mean he cant be a very good position and team defender. And MT, IT, JT, these guys should not be guaranteed a spot on this team. If they improve then yes, but if they continue to not play defense then get rid of them.

 

[baller13]

I agree with this assessment.

You don't have to have an elite shot-blocker on your team to win. But if you don't have at least an intimidating/physical front-court then you HAVE to have superior wing defenders and fantastic team defense.

So when we look at our team we know that the goal is to become a good defensive team, so the question is: How can we go about doing it.

In most cases it's a lot easier to bring in 1 starting player who can play big and be the defensive stopper, than it is to find players who can all play great defense as well as provide enough versatile offense to win games in the NBA.

Now I will say this.

If we ended up drafting MKG and re-signing TWill & JT we could end up with a starting line-up of:
Tyreke
TWill
MKG
JT
Cousins

That 1-2-3 position would probably be one of the best defensive 1-2-3 in the league and since both JT & Cousins are physical big men, I think we could become a good enough defensive team if Smart is able to teach them how to play good team defense.

I'd love to bring in a more defensive-oriented player along-side Cousins and have JT filling that great 3rd big role, but if I'm just looking at next season, I would be fine with that starting line-up as a first step towards becoming a good defensive team.

I dont mind that starting lineup as longs as Reke, Twill and MKG improve their shooting. Teams would really pack the paint against that team.

 

[baller13]

One does wonder why NBA fans are routinely so completely lost when it comes to shotblocking. Its been such a core part of defense for basically as long as the league as been around. The geomerty of that is simple: the basket is far off the ground, and hence a taller person is going to be able to come inbetween you and that basket much easier than a shorter person. And the shotblocker is generally your center or PF and hence normally positined BEHIND your other defenders. Its rather basic math to say that an offensive player having to beat two defenders is going to have a harder time than one having to beat one defender, and that an offensive player trying to shoot the ball into a 10 foot hoop over a 7 foot guy with long arms is going to have a harder time doing it than if he is faced with a 6'7" guy with shorter arms.

Now let's explore the odyesseys of the very teams you are citing, the top defensive teams in the league. Defensive FG% is the way to do that BTW, since Defensive Pts allowed depends to some degree on pace. So this is how the top 5 defesnive teams THEMSELVES feel about the importance of shotblocking:

#1 Boston (tied for 5th in shotblocking) -- start the season with Jermaine O'Neal at center. What is Jermaine's purpose you might ask? Shotblocking. Its all he can do anymore. As Jermaine breaks down turn to some degree to Greg Steimsma, who is a lousy basketball player in every way except, you guessed it, shotblocking. finally install 7foot Kevin Garnett back there where he drinks a fountain of youth potion and ups his shotblocking in the playoffs to about 1.5 a game. Let me ask you, as I will repeatedly, if shotblocking is not a key component of NBA defenses, why do the best defensive teams in the league try so damn hard to keep aroudn players that can do little else? Do you know something they don't? Perhaps you should become a consultant and explian to them the wrongheadedness of their thinking.

#2 Chicago (3rd in shotblcoking) -- let's see, employ not 1, not 2, but THREE frontline shotblockers in Noah, Gibson and Asik, with the three of them combining for nearly 4 blocks a game. Not that I know why they bother. Surely there must be a scoring combo guard or hardworking 6'7" PF they could employ instead.

#3 Philadelphia (tied for 12th in shotblocking) -- I would generally consider them an exception to the rule driven by Collins, but did you know that Brand and Hawes combined to block nearly 3 shots a game last season? In fairly limited minutes? Did you also know that after the season ended they immediately announced that their primarily goals were finding a guy who could create his own shot, and finding more shotblocking and length inside? Seems silly to us, since we know how unimportant that stuff is, but hey not everybody can be basketball geniuses.

#4 OKC (#1 in shotblocking) -- Serge Ibaka, Kendrick Perkins. 'Nuff said. Their frontline exists for no other reason.

#5 Miami (tied for 9th in shotblocking) -- Joel Anthony is a terrible basketball player. Just terrible. He's only good at one thing. Would you like to guess what that one thing is? Would you further like to guess who started at center for the Heat all season long? It wasn't Battier. It wasn't Haslem. It wasn't Mike Miller. It was the guy who could barely dribble with two hands. So again, let me ask you the question, if length/intimidation/shotblcoking/interior defense is NOT considered a critical component of defnese by the league's best defensive teams, why on Earth would a basketball player like Joel Anthony be starting for the likely world champs this year? What could possibly possess them?[/QUO


Wow. Really? Please tell me how many games joel anthony started for the heat in the playoffs? Crap how many did he even play in?? Okc i will give you because they have ibaka. Perkins is not a shot blocker. Phili, Brand and Hawes. Please tell me which one of those 2 players you would like to have. I dont want either of them. Kevin Garnett is not a shot blocker anymore. If you think he is than you are delusional.

As for Chicago. You say Noah, Gibson and Asik are all FRONTLINE shotblockers because they average nearly 4 blocks a game? You think 3 guys getting almost 4 blocks a game combined makes them frontline??? Doesnt Ibaka average 3.5 by himself? Ibaka is frontline. Those other 3 are not. They are all good players and i would love to have any of them, but they are not shotblockers. Noah averages 1.4. Cousins averages 1.1. So a difference of .3 makes you a frontline shotblocker??? Yeah........If you say so.

 

[DesertFox]

Wow. Really? Please tell me how many games joel anthony started for the heat in the playoffs? Crap how many did he even play in?? Okc i will give you because they have ibaka. Perkins is not a shot blocker. Phili, Brand and Hawes. Please tell me which one of those 2 players you would like to have. I dont want either of them. Kevin Garnett is not a shot blocker anymore. If you think he is than you are delusional.

As for Chicago. You say Noah, Gibson and Asik are all FRONTLINE shotblockers because they average nearly 4 blocks a game? You think 3 guys getting almost 4 blocks a game combined makes them frontline??? Doesnt Ibaka average 3.5 by himself? Ibaka is frontline. Those other 3 are not. They are all good players and i would love to have any of them, but they are not shotblockers. Noah averages 1.4. Cousins averages 1.1. So a difference of .3 makes you a frontline shotblocker??? Yeah........If you say so.

Those Bulls players are among the top (8th, 12th, and 26th) in blocks per minute. Cuz is 36th and JT is 56th.
And .3 is pretty significant when it comes to blocks, especially when that guy is your team leader (vs Noah, who is 3rd on his own team).

Shot blocking is easily overrated, but you still need a presence to turn away guys going to the paint.

 

[Glenn]

I would rather give Hassan minutes than draft Drummond. #1, Hassan is a better shot blocker and #2, neither has much of a clue how to play basketball and are long term projects. Hassan's advantage is that he has been here and he has a decent 10-12 ft jumper.




What's with the attitude baller13?

 

[SacTownKid]

That would probably be because this forum, unfortunately, is a forum for the support of a team that has put up these absolutely bleak defensive numbers over the last 10 years:

Year OppFg%Rnk/BlkRate
------------------------------
11-12 30th/22nd
10-11 28th/19th
09-10 20th/24th
08-09 30th/26th
07-08 22nd/28th
06-07 26th/28th
05-06 16th/26th* (the Artest half season revival)
04-05 23rd/26th*
03-04 25th/26th*
02-03 1st/10th*

* prior to 05-06 had to use raw blocks instead of block rate (which adjusts for pace) because hoopdata's stats only go back to 06-07.


Anyway, that's 10 years. A DECADE. 1) Man I'm getting old. 2) That's bleeping ridiculous. Has to be one of the worst defensive decades by any non-Nellie ruined team in league history. And the worst part is it all started off the best team we ever had in 02-03. Best defensive, best overall, was 10 years ago. And in just a completely bizarre development we threw it all away and completely forgot how we got there. For 10 years! Of course a board dedicated to that team is going to be fascinated with shotblocking. No...I take that back. Sacramento fans have been ruined to some degree by the organization. The dupes in charge do not understand, and so its mouthpieces spew out constant garbage so fans without other basketball outlets often do not understand. But its no coincidence at all that the last time we were any good defenisvely we were a good shotblocking team. Not a great one. We never were great. But we had the length to challenge up front, and a pure shotblocker that year in particular in Keon. And many of us are old enough to remember those days.

P.S. That's not a particular argument for Drummond or Henson, but its absolutely one for what they represent. Interior length and intimidation.

And might I add for a franchise that consistently puts teams out on the floor that would be greatly helped by some sort of interior defender who can block shots.

 

[ParniValjak]

Hoopshype is reporting that Chicago would be open to trading Noah and/or Deng for an early pick in the draft.

Its well known that Petrie has been a huge Noah fan for years and was visibly disappointed when Chicago picked him right in front of us! I got no doubt that Petrie would be interested in trading for Noah but the big question is would the Maloofs be willing to take on a 4 year deal worth about $50 million...or maybe more appropriate question would be can they afford it?

I have said before that Cousins-Noah-JT big men rotation would be beastly and arguably the best in the league!

 

[DesertFox]

Hoopshype is reporting that Chicago would be open to trading Noah and/or Deng for an early pick in the draft.

Its well known that Petrie has been a huge Noah fan for years and was visibly disappointed when Chicago picked him right in front of us! I got no doubt that Petrie would be interested in trading for Noah but the big question is would the Maloofs be willing to take on a 4 year deal worth about $50 million...or maybe more appropriate question would be can they afford it?

I have said before that Cousins-Noah-JT big men rotation would be beastly and arguably the best in the league!

If the Bulls would take Salmons (or even Hayes or Outlaw) the salary impact won't be huge.
Sounds too good to be true though.

 

[Bricklayer]

If the Bulls would take Salmons (or even Hayes or Outlaw) the salary impact won't be huge.
Sounds too good to be true though.

They won't. Its reported they are looking for a high pick and then a big trade exception they can use later. Which of course makes sense from their perspective.

One of those cases where you hope our bad financial decisions last summer don't come back and bite us a second time this summer. A Cousins/Noah/JT frontline could be the best frontcourt in the NBA for a longtime, assuming the two "colorful" personalities don't lead to somebody getting murdered in the shower.

 

[Glenn]

If we are voting, I vote for Noah. He's the kind of guy who shows the non-believers what an energetic, hustle guy can do for a team. Much rather trade for an established player than draft and hope.

 

[Telemachus]

If we are voting, I vote for Noah. He's the kind of guy who shows the non-believers what an energetic, hustle guy can do for a team. Much rather trade for an established player than draft and hope.

I agree. I would rather take my chances with the 5th pick than trade it for Deng, but would be very tempted to trade it for Noah.

 

[ParniValjak]

If the Bulls would take Salmons (or even Hayes or Outlaw) the salary impact won't be huge.
Sounds too good to be true though.

As Brick said, they won't. from their perspective they need to dump salary to get under the tax. The last thing they would want to pick up is a contract or 2 that runs for 3 or 4 years. It defeats the purpose of what they are trying to do. In that case they are better off keeping Noah and paying the tax. At least they would get a lot more bang for their buck.

Like Brick, I sincerely hope that the moves of last summer do not come back to bite us this time. We are on the hook for some $18-19 million next season only for the players we picked up (Salmons, Hayes and Outlaw) and all 3 look really difficult contracts to move. Just about impossible.