Sergio Rodriguez...
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Kingsguy881
Guest
The logic is flawed all the way around. The Kings won 17 games last season, the only changes to the core were mainly Tyreke and Omri, with a side bar of Brockness and Sergio. So any amount of wins over 17 were basicall brought on by these new additions, and its even more so because of Reke thanks to Kevin and Cisco going down. After 17 games, the Kings have won 9. However many wins they had last year at this point, subtract that to find out what Reke's impact has been.
Reke is the main reason the Kings are winning these games. Everyone else is a complimentary piece, but Reke is the main focal point both of the Kings and the defense of their opponent. He gets their best defender, he gets doubled and tripled, teams design their defensive gameplan around him, and he plays awesome defense on his man. Reke is the MAN.
GIVE THIS KID A 10 YEAR EXTENSION NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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AriesMar27
Guest
you could say that, but from the beginning i said that we would win 33 games... if they win less than that i will be seriously disappointed with this team, if they win less than 20 games wouldnt you be disappointed as well? they are better than that. i continue to say that we were better than our 17 win record last season, i honestly believe if the kings had been healthy they wouldve won more than 17 games... they were good enough to win more than 1 game per week...
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AriesMar27
Guest
im not comparing him to lebron, though the stats are hella similar... yes, im trying to bring hella back....
tyreke averaged 20/5/5 for the month of november, 18/5/4 if you add the 3 games in october... he would basically have to maintain his current pace for the rest of the season. thats not asking much. and you guys are seriously undervaluing the rest of this teams contribution for their 9 wins... beno if anyone would be a equal if not bigger factor in our wins than tyreke has been... if anyone has stepped up its been him. sergio when he gets minutes has played well and the bigs sort of take turns having good games.
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Kingsguy881
Guest
He sure would be, good call. Hell, I think we should trade Tyreke for DJ Mbenga, I mean, what good is Reke anyway? Beno is the man, we don't need a triple double threat that the entire defense is so focused on scoring it makes other defenders leave them men to help contain him and make things easier for the other players. I'm going to start a trade Tyreke thread. Are you with me? Because Beno has been more of a reason why we have been winning these games lately, when Martin comes back thats all we will need. Beno back at the starting point and Martin as our sg. Lets do it.
Don't forget that we also traded a bit of Reggie Theus and a lot of Kenny Natt for Westphal. I do believe that the coaching staff is responsible for a good bit of our improvement.
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AriesMar27
Guest
He sure would be, good call. Hell, I think we should trade Tyreke for DJ Mbenga, I mean, what good is Reke anyway? Beno is the man, we don't need a triple double threat that the entire defense is so focused on scoring it makes other defenders leave them men to help contain him and make things easier for the other players. I'm going to start a trade Tyreke thread. Are you with me? Because Beno has been more of a reason why we have been winning these games lately, when Martin comes back thats all we will need. Beno back at the starting point and Martin as our sg. Lets do it.
that is how we got our first win.... beno, martin and hawes...
but seriously, beno has been playing out of this world for a back up pg... shooting a high % and few turnovers for the most part. he was such a drag last season... mbenga would be a nice backup center. though i wouldnt want to trade evans to the lakers... udoka for mbenga i would do in a heartbeat...
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Kingsguy881
Guest
Very true, good point. I forget about that sometimes when I really shouldn't. The culture has definitely changed and the coaching staff is a big reason why.
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AriesMar27
Guest
true... we have had some crappy coaches...
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AriesMar27
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Kingsguy881
Guest
Beno has been playing well, no doubt. But if you seriously think he is as much if not more of a reason why the Kings are winning than Tyreke then you have lost your mind. Beno is a great role player, but Tyreke is the star. There is no doubt about it, unless you want to make something up to continue to downtalk Tyreke, which it seems you have become quite proficient in doing, except nobody but 101 and swisssh will agree with you.that is how we got our first win.... beno, martin and hawes...
but seriously, beno has been playing out of this world for a back up pg... shooting a high % and few turnovers for the most part. he was such a drag last season... mbenga would be a nice backup center. though i wouldnt want to trade evans to the lakers... udoka for mbenga i would do in a heartbeat...
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AriesMar27
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do you remember how bad beno was last season? he was beyond horrible... this has nothing to do with evans, beno has been playing amazing(for beno) so far this season.
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Kingsguy881
Guest
You made it about Evans dude when you said that Beno was more of a reason why the Kings were winning games. A person could get booted fromt his website if they came out and told you exactly how you look to them. Brick broke a rule on here, but I thought it was well warranted and if I could get away with it I would too.
Because it is so petty, so juvenile, so damn infantile. And it never stops. I feel bad for the mods having to clean up all the repercussions from some of the childish **** that gets posted. I even get caught up in it, adn start acting like a child too. I have to pull myself away and remember that I'm a husband, father of 2, mortgage payee, boat owner, responsible adult. Because some of these posts are so obviously flammatory, and purposefully so. Geez.
roasthawg
Starter
No way do you really believe this.I do agree with you on the stats, altough 20/5/5 just means you are a natural scorer (which he is) that is being asked to run the offense (which he is) I am more impressed by how our team looks as a whole with him out there, and I want to see him improve his decision making, and running the team offense while still getting him integrated in the scoring. I just don't like how you said that he has to bring the team to 41 wins just to be considered impressive. I think he already is.
Living abroad I have only managed to watch 2 Kings games this year but I do follow this team daily.
I do understand that this is a Kings FANS forum but there is a bit to much fanboyism here.
I think Evans is amazing. A legitimate ROY candidate and a big piece of Kings recent success. But give credit where credit is due.
Thompson & Beno have improved considerably. Nocioni, Casspi and Brockman give this team much needed scrapiness (hell, KT as well). And yes, Kings have a coach this year.
The result of the TEAMS success is TEAM play. Evans makes the team better and vice versa.
Jordan once said that that there is no I in TEAM but there is an I in WIN. Evans can surely carry this team to success by himself. But not yet, not being a rookie with so much to learn. He needs a TEAM to help carry the burden.
Just my 2 cents.
I do understand that this is a Kings FANS forum but there is a bit to much fanboyism here.
I think Evans is amazing. A legitimate ROY candidate and a big piece of Kings recent success. But give credit where credit is due.
Thompson & Beno have improved considerably. Nocioni, Casspi and Brockman give this team much needed scrapiness (hell, KT as well). And yes, Kings have a coach this year.
The result of the TEAMS success is TEAM play. Evans makes the team better and vice versa.
Jordan once said that that there is no I in TEAM but there is an I in WIN. Evans can surely carry this team to success by himself. But not yet, not being a rookie with so much to learn. He needs a TEAM to help carry the burden.
Just my 2 cents.
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Kingsguy881
Guest
No one is discounting that fact, guy. The main issue comes in giving BENO most of the credit for this season's turnaround. The most significant reason why this team has turned around is Tyreke. Everything else has just fallen into place. A great coach. Great role players. Great culture. Great philosophy. Super-Stud rookie. Have all been the reasons for this turnaround, but it wouldn't be so drastic without Evans. Thats the only point I'M making.
Section 101
All-Star
I think they are all 3 (pg's) replaceable with each other at the moment. As long as 2 are there we would be in the same place.
I think the biggest reason for the turn around is Westphal and the coaching staff. If you take away last years debacle we are really right were we should be now. They got us back on track. As for players, JT has been the best player so far.
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Kingsguy881
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Not even. Why? Consistency. Tyreke has been far more consistent, and he doesn't get into foul trouble and have to sit. Nice try though.
Section 101
All-Star
JT
PER 17.57
EWA 1.8
+/- +28
Evans
PER 16.87
EWA 1.7
+/- +4
Oh, and the +/- when both on the floor together is +13.
I suppose it's also just random that the 2 people with higher +/- than JT is Sergio at 43 and Beno at 42. Or could it be that the ball movement is just creating better shots?
EWA Estimated Wins Added is Value Added divided by 30, giving the estimated number of wins a player adds to a team’s season total above what a "replacement player" would produce.
Oh, wasn't Evans in foul trouble the last game? Oh and Jt has played 584 mins vs Evans 574.
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AriesMar27
Guest
oh i am impressed by the team as a whole... the indiana game was a good example of what we couldnt do last season, close out games... but look at it from my perspective, i see evans as a sg... so his stats should be easy to maintain. as far as the wins go i think that they will win 33, that was before the season starts and if martin gets injured like he always does. i even said that we would still win with martin out and evans at sg before the season started. his scoring and ability to get to the freethrow line could easily get us a few more wins. the indiana game was an example of that as well...
im not down on evans, im breaking even... thats why you never see me praising him... its like last year when martin would score 25 points and brick would talk about how it was the quietest 25 points he had ever seen, im the same way with evans. like he scored 24 points... im like so what, he's our sg and leading scorer... he's supposed to do that.
as far as evans running the offense, when does he do that? thats another thing that the indy game showed. he had 18 points, 2 assists and 4 turnovers by halftime. when he was in we were down by 10, beno and sergio comes in and we're up 10. its not that evans was playing bad, he was just playing 1 on 5. we cant have our "pg" playing 1 on 5 and simply attacking the basket all game.
okay now im going to go on a bit of a rant....
though i have a new appreciation for westphal for pulling him out(due to foul trouble) and leaving him out while we were playing well. i used to hate watching theuss bring cold players in off the bench while we were fighting to get back into games. but it is funny that he is starting greene at sg to force opposing teams to put their pg on evans, its like he reads these boards or something. he has a knack for choosing bad starting lineups... how many times does he expect our bench to bail us out?
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Kingsguy881
Guest
True, but Evans has shown a penchant for recognizing this and playing within himself, for example I forget the game but him, Donte and JT all were in foul trouble in the first half, yet Evans was able to play through it unlike JT who was eventually pulled and limited.
And your little PER statistic is not very telling so you can throw that out the window, as far as consistency is concerned. JT has his minutes limited due to foul trouble, Evans is rarely limited. And Evans statistics across the board have never been as up and down as JT's, the other night against NO was the first time JT had broken 20 pts in 7 games. JT has had 5 or more fouls in 10 games this season, Evans has 3, never fouled out yet either. He's more consistent, any way you cut it.
Section 101
All-Star
Why throw out PER? Because it doesnt fit your beliefs? Its not the end all, but it along with the other stats added together start to say the samething. Oh and look at my edit. JT has played 14 more total minutes than Evans.
So why can't you give JT some credit?
drboiffard
Bench
An off-topic on-topic or viceversa.
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Kingsguy881
Guest
Oh I can, I'm the one who got his chops busted for saying that there are a lot of aspects of JT's game that remind me of Webber, which as a HUGE Webber fan is great praise indeed. He's just not the one on this team, if grades were handed down right now, that would get the highest grade. Tyreke would. I don't understand how come YOU and your cohorts can't give Tyreke credit.
Oh wait, yes I can. There was someone else on your draft board that you wanted instead of Evans.
Why keep fighting it broseph? Tyreke is obviously a beast, and even more obviously he wears a Kings jersey. Let go of your hatred, it only leads to the dark side of the force. Don't let it dominate your destiny, padawan. Root for him. It's extemely fun, and much easier than the route you are going down. Keep on it and soon you won't even like the Kings.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Methinks your newfound fascination with PER -- an arcane made up statistic designed to give a nerdy accountant a sports journalist's career -- is rather suspicious.
Methinks if you couldn't use PER to support your latest assaults on Reke, it would be turnovers, or fouls, or +/- or pts/min, or just whatever else you could flail about and find to contnue what has become a blatantly ridiculous quest.
You and a few others are just killing yourselves here. Just destroying your enjoyment of your own team for the sake of ego. Its a very unwise choice. While Reke leads this team out of the darkness, and starts picking up accolades from all around the country, a handful of you are sitting here self-defining yourselves as a resistance movement, and for what? Other than ego, for what? Do you truly think you are going to be able to spend the next 10 years rooting for a team while simultanousely trashing its best player? Or do you already have your escape route planned? The magic statistic that you will seize upon to justify reversing course and "saying see now Reke has satisfied me" before coming back to the fold? As you continue to blatantly scrounge about looking for mud to throw at a pretty marvelous looking 20 year old player, how long do you think you can do that before a) nobody is going to buy your future sudden transformation; and b) you build up so great a dislike of a 20 year old kid for absolutely no reason that its going to poison your enjoyment of Kings games for roughly a quarter of your adult life.
You had a schtick there that I thought was going to allow you to make it through -- a constant, unenending, completely out of proportion focus on casting aspersions on Reke's PG ability. It was silly, and annoying, but it was the sort of specialist complaint that you could eventually ease out of. But as the success has grown and the accolades have grown, you just seem to be getting more and more desperate to poke holes in maybe the best thing that has happened to Kings fans in a good 10 years, and that's absolutely the wrong dynamic for a fan of the team to have if they are going to draw any enjoyment out of the enterprise. You can question this and you can question that, but openly rooting against and trying to cut down Reke at every opportunity is just going to lead you to a cold cold place with no way back.
You've got to let it go, Shrug and move on. Hell even I was wrong once. I think. Well...maybe half right. Okay three quarters right. But it happens. Reke failing is not essential to your worldview. You can spin this argument around and just say that Rubio would have been a better pure PG than Reke and cover at least 90% of your butt at least until Rubio comes over years from now, by which point most people around here will have long since forgotten who was for what back in the day. But you can't if you continue to associate yourself with an unending stream of bile and aspersions toward a kid who has done absolutely nothing wrong for this franchise, and a whiole hell of a lot right.
Methinks if you couldn't use PER to support your latest assaults on Reke, it would be turnovers, or fouls, or +/- or pts/min, or just whatever else you could flail about and find to contnue what has become a blatantly ridiculous quest.
You and a few others are just killing yourselves here. Just destroying your enjoyment of your own team for the sake of ego. Its a very unwise choice. While Reke leads this team out of the darkness, and starts picking up accolades from all around the country, a handful of you are sitting here self-defining yourselves as a resistance movement, and for what? Other than ego, for what? Do you truly think you are going to be able to spend the next 10 years rooting for a team while simultanousely trashing its best player? Or do you already have your escape route planned? The magic statistic that you will seize upon to justify reversing course and "saying see now Reke has satisfied me" before coming back to the fold? As you continue to blatantly scrounge about looking for mud to throw at a pretty marvelous looking 20 year old player, how long do you think you can do that before a) nobody is going to buy your future sudden transformation; and b) you build up so great a dislike of a 20 year old kid for absolutely no reason that its going to poison your enjoyment of Kings games for roughly a quarter of your adult life.
You had a schtick there that I thought was going to allow you to make it through -- a constant, unenending, completely out of proportion focus on casting aspersions on Reke's PG ability. It was silly, and annoying, but it was the sort of specialist complaint that you could eventually ease out of. But as the success has grown and the accolades have grown, you just seem to be getting more and more desperate to poke holes in maybe the best thing that has happened to Kings fans in a good 10 years, and that's absolutely the wrong dynamic for a fan of the team to have if they are going to draw any enjoyment out of the enterprise. You can question this and you can question that, but openly rooting against and trying to cut down Reke at every opportunity is just going to lead you to a cold cold place with no way back.
You've got to let it go, Shrug and move on. Hell even I was wrong once. I think. Well...maybe half right. Okay three quarters right. But it happens. Reke failing is not essential to your worldview. You can spin this argument around and just say that Rubio would have been a better pure PG than Reke and cover at least 90% of your butt at least until Rubio comes over years from now, by which point most people around here will have long since forgotten who was for what back in the day. But you can't if you continue to associate yourself with an unending stream of bile and aspersions toward a kid who has done absolutely nothing wrong for this franchise, and a whiole hell of a lot right.
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Kingsguy881
Guest
Tyreke is not perfect. Ok? We ALL know that. There is NO hiding of the fact. But he is much obviously THE BEST PLAYER ON THIS TEAM, THE MOST WELL-ROUNDED PLAYER ON THIS TEAM, AND THE PLAYER WITH THE MOST UPSIDE ON THIS TEAM, and in a couple of years he will be mentioned as one of the best players in the league. And do you, or anybody for that matter, want to jump on the Evans-hate train, that being the case?
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Kingsguy881
Guest
JT has played in every game this season. Reke hasn't. That MIGHT help him out, minutes wise, just MIGHT.
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AriesMar27
Guest
lol... its on topic for you, every once in a while i'll say something about sergio but thats funny...
Chupacabra
Starter
Sergio Rodriguez gives us great versatilityin the backcourt in that most of our guards are primarily scorers first. Rodriguez's pass first mentality is the perfect change of pace.
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