well....im not really sure what the pacers have to do with this...
and since noone is really sure who the starting center will be, it might be tough to say...
i do think the team is a championship contender...
but again...i fail to see how the pacers have anything to do with this discussion....
i also think the spurs have a championship team...and when all i said and done, i think miami might very well have one also...
but again....these teams have nothing to do with the kings and their situation...
and since noone is really sure who the starting center will be, it might be tough to say...
i do think the team is a championship contender...
but again...i fail to see how the pacers have anything to do with this discussion....
i also think the spurs have a championship team...and when all i said and done, i think miami might very well have one also...
but again....these teams have nothing to do with the kings and their situation...
I can sign on with that last sentiment. Despite my objections, there ARE ways this move can become a winner for the Kings: namely if there is a significant followup move to move one or more of our now "Big 5" for a player better suited to our needs. If that occured, then it would be a case of judging Geoff's plan before it was complete and catching it at a particularly ugly in between point.
As an aside, however: Given what seemed to be the Kings near desperation to get Shareef before he went with the Nets, and what was reported as Jerry Reynolds sincere disappointment in not landing him, I have to conclude that there was a very definite Shareef plan. The two possibilities in that case are 1) that Geoff popped a chubby at the thought of Shareef sliding into the role as high post PF with a bit of post ability; or 2) and more itnerestingly for me, the possibility that they needed to get Reef on the cheap so that they could make another move without losing too much of their precious offensive firepower. I am hoping for 2), expecting 1).
As an aside, however: Given what seemed to be the Kings near desperation to get Shareef before he went with the Nets, and what was reported as Jerry Reynolds sincere disappointment in not landing him, I have to conclude that there was a very definite Shareef plan. The two possibilities in that case are 1) that Geoff popped a chubby at the thought of Shareef sliding into the role as high post PF with a bit of post ability; or 2) and more itnerestingly for me, the possibility that they needed to get Reef on the cheap so that they could make another move without losing too much of their precious offensive firepower. I am hoping for 2), expecting 1).
Oh yes they do, and I'll explain why.
I don't see how you can consider ANY of those teams champiosnhip contenders -- after all they do not have "legitimate lineups" under your rubric for us.
Jeff Foster? Bruce Bowen? Nazr Mohammed? Udonis Haslem? James Posey? UGH! I mean to be legit you have to replace those guys with a 20pt softy scorer right?
And obviously that is B.S to make a point -- top teams ALWAYS employ guys who's job it is to do the little things. The dirty work. We used to ourselves when we were elite. So why oh why do we suddenly need to have 5 scorers in one lineup to have a "leigitmate lineup". If you compare it to the lineups that actually win and contend, it might actually be called an ILLEGITIMATE lineup. Its not how its done.
And as an aside, the answer to my question to you is of course "yes", assuming Ronny remains sane and with an * because I am not 100% convinced Jermaine is a good enough offensive player to carry a team to a title. Could also stand to have a little more shooting, but nobody's perfect. However your two best palyers are your two best defenders (and two of the best in the league), the rest of your guys are all good on that front. You employ a rebounding specialist to keep you ahead of the game in that respect, and at least before last year I would have called your PG "pass first". Its called balance. Not everybody is a star. Not everybody a household name. But everybody has a role and they complement each other. Result could well be 60 wins and slugging it out with Miami and Detroit. So explain to be again why a team which already has Peja, Bibby, Miller and Bonzi as starters needs ANOTHER big scorer to have a "legitimate" lineup?
I don't see how you can consider ANY of those teams champiosnhip contenders -- after all they do not have "legitimate lineups" under your rubric for us.
Jeff Foster? Bruce Bowen? Nazr Mohammed? Udonis Haslem? James Posey? UGH! I mean to be legit you have to replace those guys with a 20pt softy scorer right?
And obviously that is B.S to make a point -- top teams ALWAYS employ guys who's job it is to do the little things. The dirty work. We used to ourselves when we were elite. So why oh why do we suddenly need to have 5 scorers in one lineup to have a "leigitmate lineup". If you compare it to the lineups that actually win and contend, it might actually be called an ILLEGITIMATE lineup. Its not how its done.
And as an aside, the answer to my question to you is of course "yes", assuming Ronny remains sane and with an * because I am not 100% convinced Jermaine is a good enough offensive player to carry a team to a title. Could also stand to have a little more shooting, but nobody's perfect. However your two best palyers are your two best defenders (and two of the best in the league), the rest of your guys are all good on that front. You employ a rebounding specialist to keep you ahead of the game in that respect, and at least before last year I would have called your PG "pass first". Its called balance. Not everybody is a star. Not everybody a household name. But everybody has a role and they complement each other. Result could well be 60 wins and slugging it out with Miami and Detroit. So explain to be again why a team which already has Peja, Bibby, Miller and Bonzi as starters needs ANOTHER big scorer to have a "legitimate" lineup?
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i dont know where this 'legitimate and illegit' lineup stuff is coming from....i dont recall saying anything of the sort...
and again, comparing the pacers to the kings makes no sense to me....
the kings made their run...a couple years ago....thats over...now theyre left to try and retool...which definitely meant no vlade, webber, or christie...
its a process....u pretty much have to step back a bit before u reestablish urself at the head of the pack....thats what the kings are attempting to do...
it wasnt too long ago that they were faced with the possibility of starting brad miller, kenny thomas, peja, kmart, and bibby.....with a very iffy bench....
thats a team that, in my eyes, wouldve missed the playoffs...now they are on the verge of starting miller, SAR, peja, bonzi, and bibby.....with kmart, KT, and a couple decent guys coming off the bench....is that a title contender? no....is it an improvement from the team that finished the season last year that also was gonna lose mobley??? most definitely....so they are moving the process along....when u factor in that they didnt give up much at all to make these improvements, thats all the better...that means theyve acquired additional assets that will hopefully help in their continued climb back to contending for a title...
i think u underestimate what an accomplishment it is to add two quality starters without giving up a starter....thats nothing short of a coup....they may or may not be championship starters, but they both are solid starters in this league, if their risks dont materialize...
now if petrie is as good as it appears he is, then he will continue the process....most likely making a trade or 2 during the season....after hes had a chance to watch the team and see how the new pieces perform....and i would not be surprised at all if peja was apart of that trade...as he will be in his final year and will be fairly attractive and should be able to gain whatever piece petrie deems appropriate....
its a process....and we as fans would love to just snap our fingers and have it all over with....but the direction appears to be there....and for gods sake....having shareef and bonzi versus not having them should be a no brainer....
the kings 2 worst positions going into this offseason were pf and sg....theyve made noticeable upgrades to both....is that so hard to understand????
at the start of the offseason, SAR wouldve been the absolute best possible pf they could reasonably hope to get....and theyve done so....the same is pretty much true with bonzi....
as ive said before....both acquisitions come with risks....but the upside is second to nothing else they couldve done....and really, not even close...
and again, comparing the pacers to the kings makes no sense to me....
the kings made their run...a couple years ago....thats over...now theyre left to try and retool...which definitely meant no vlade, webber, or christie...
its a process....u pretty much have to step back a bit before u reestablish urself at the head of the pack....thats what the kings are attempting to do...
it wasnt too long ago that they were faced with the possibility of starting brad miller, kenny thomas, peja, kmart, and bibby.....with a very iffy bench....
thats a team that, in my eyes, wouldve missed the playoffs...now they are on the verge of starting miller, SAR, peja, bonzi, and bibby.....with kmart, KT, and a couple decent guys coming off the bench....is that a title contender? no....is it an improvement from the team that finished the season last year that also was gonna lose mobley??? most definitely....so they are moving the process along....when u factor in that they didnt give up much at all to make these improvements, thats all the better...that means theyve acquired additional assets that will hopefully help in their continued climb back to contending for a title...
i think u underestimate what an accomplishment it is to add two quality starters without giving up a starter....thats nothing short of a coup....they may or may not be championship starters, but they both are solid starters in this league, if their risks dont materialize...
now if petrie is as good as it appears he is, then he will continue the process....most likely making a trade or 2 during the season....after hes had a chance to watch the team and see how the new pieces perform....and i would not be surprised at all if peja was apart of that trade...as he will be in his final year and will be fairly attractive and should be able to gain whatever piece petrie deems appropriate....
its a process....and we as fans would love to just snap our fingers and have it all over with....but the direction appears to be there....and for gods sake....having shareef and bonzi versus not having them should be a no brainer....
the kings 2 worst positions going into this offseason were pf and sg....theyve made noticeable upgrades to both....is that so hard to understand????
at the start of the offseason, SAR wouldve been the absolute best possible pf they could reasonably hope to get....and theyve done so....the same is pretty much true with bonzi....
as ive said before....both acquisitions come with risks....but the upside is second to nothing else they couldve done....and really, not even close...
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I like this foretaz!!
Exactly right. The Kings moved forward. If you look at the start of last season you had a shooting guard who was gimping around and a power forward who was gimping around. In less than a year, Petrie turned those two players into Bonzi Wells and (potentially) Shareef Abdur-Rahim, extremely talented players who are still in their prime. It doesn't turn them into title favorites, but it turns them from first-round-and-out to championship longshots.
I really fail to understand how the naysayers can be upset about this!! Maybe you don't like it when your teams get better. Maybe you would rather have a lottery team to endure. Maybe you need some prozac.
Exactly right. The Kings moved forward. If you look at the start of last season you had a shooting guard who was gimping around and a power forward who was gimping around. In less than a year, Petrie turned those two players into Bonzi Wells and (potentially) Shareef Abdur-Rahim, extremely talented players who are still in their prime. It doesn't turn them into title favorites, but it turns them from first-round-and-out to championship longshots.
I really fail to understand how the naysayers can be upset about this!! Maybe you don't like it when your teams get better. Maybe you would rather have a lottery team to endure. Maybe you need some prozac.
1) again, separate the two moves. Bonzi Wells WAS a good move or one would hope. Of course even there we gave up a dynamic starting quality guy to get him. Nonetheless, I like. And its a separate issue from The n turnign around and picking up ANOTHER offensive player, and a soft tweener forward at that.
2) we DID effectively lose one starter to get these guys. Or close enough. Down one Cat, along with Bobby and Tag and the MLE, to get Bonzi and Shareef. Adn as an aside, while I like what Bonzi potentially brings, he is no major upgrade over Cat in talent or overall offensive ability. Hoping he can help us in the areas where we suck though.
3) UNLESS its a "talent acquistion" move -- in other words, we're stockpiling to make another major move (and that, BTW, is my hope) you canNOT judge players by their position without reference to your team. "Oh, x is the "best" PF available, therefore we will have made the "best" move if we get him." Not how it works. The real question is is he the BEST for YOU, for your team. One size does NOT fit all.
4) This has to be the hope: "now if petrie is as good as it appears he is, then he will continue the process....most likely making a trade or 2 during the season....after hes had a chance to watch the team and see how the new pieces perform....and i would not be surprised at all if peja was apart of that trade...as he will be in his final year and will be fairly attractive and should be able to gain whatever piece petrie deems appropriate...." This is the "work in progress" scenario, and I am throwing my hat in the ring with those hoping this will be a good move in the long run even if it is dubious on its face in the present.
2) we DID effectively lose one starter to get these guys. Or close enough. Down one Cat, along with Bobby and Tag and the MLE, to get Bonzi and Shareef. Adn as an aside, while I like what Bonzi potentially brings, he is no major upgrade over Cat in talent or overall offensive ability. Hoping he can help us in the areas where we suck though.
3) UNLESS its a "talent acquistion" move -- in other words, we're stockpiling to make another major move (and that, BTW, is my hope) you canNOT judge players by their position without reference to your team. "Oh, x is the "best" PF available, therefore we will have made the "best" move if we get him." Not how it works. The real question is is he the BEST for YOU, for your team. One size does NOT fit all.
4) This has to be the hope: "now if petrie is as good as it appears he is, then he will continue the process....most likely making a trade or 2 during the season....after hes had a chance to watch the team and see how the new pieces perform....and i would not be surprised at all if peja was apart of that trade...as he will be in his final year and will be fairly attractive and should be able to gain whatever piece petrie deems appropriate...." This is the "work in progress" scenario, and I am throwing my hat in the ring with those hoping this will be a good move in the long run even if it is dubious on its face in the present.
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As a Brooklyn-ite I can only imagine that you are one of the 2 or 3 New Yorkers who actually thinks what the Knicks ahve been doing for the past half decade is a GOOD thing, and are probably dumbstuck that it hasn't resulted in a trophy yet no? I mean lots of nifty mismatched offensive pieces right? NEVER get bad, try to avoid the lottery at all costs, just keep the mediocrity rolling = cool with you, no?
We're better than mediocre. But its the same well, the same apparent strategy -- we are just a few steps further up the ladder. If you're too terrified to have to endure one of those awful lottery seasons at some point, then frankly you've probably never been a fan of any NBA team that ever won anything given that almost every championship team I can think of was built on pieces picked up while they dropped down and got bad. It may not be time for that yet in Kingsland, but when it is you don't whine and complain about how can I ever survive this awful experience. Its a 100% necessary part of the cycle of life of an NBA franchise. Its how you reload when your time is up. And it can net you a Wade or LeBron or Duncan or Hakeem or MJ. The only way you can realistically avoid it and hope to be a power is by taking chances on young talent just a few years removed from the lottery that has not blossomed yet.
We're better than mediocre. But its the same well, the same apparent strategy -- we are just a few steps further up the ladder. If you're too terrified to have to endure one of those awful lottery seasons at some point, then frankly you've probably never been a fan of any NBA team that ever won anything given that almost every championship team I can think of was built on pieces picked up while they dropped down and got bad. It may not be time for that yet in Kingsland, but when it is you don't whine and complain about how can I ever survive this awful experience. Its a 100% necessary part of the cycle of life of an NBA franchise. Its how you reload when your time is up. And it can net you a Wade or LeBron or Duncan or Hakeem or MJ. The only way you can realistically avoid it and hope to be a power is by taking chances on young talent just a few years removed from the lottery that has not blossomed yet.
just as u like to consider the bonzi and SAR acquisitions separate, and justifiably so, u definitely have to keep mobley out of those transactions....
mobley was gone...now he was a potential acquisition....but not one that was made....but he was never really given up....he simply wasnt chosen to be a part....
this team really began the offseason as i mentioned earlier....kmart, bibby, peja, KT, and miller starting....
the only reason i mention SAR and bonzi together is this....they are starters that appear to have been added....
the team has added these two guys in addition to a couple of reserves....
they are better than when they started this offseason....as i said earlier, potentially dramatically better if sar and bonzi play up to their potential....
and dont kid urself....bonzi is potentially much better than cat....time will tell if it works out that way...
now how these pieces work together...we will see...and as i said earlier....this is not a finished product...and im not sure how anyone could consider it that...but its now a playoff team that will have the ability to make some more moves, once these pieces have a chance to play together...
mobley was gone...now he was a potential acquisition....but not one that was made....but he was never really given up....he simply wasnt chosen to be a part....
this team really began the offseason as i mentioned earlier....kmart, bibby, peja, KT, and miller starting....
the only reason i mention SAR and bonzi together is this....they are starters that appear to have been added....
the team has added these two guys in addition to a couple of reserves....
they are better than when they started this offseason....as i said earlier, potentially dramatically better if sar and bonzi play up to their potential....
and dont kid urself....bonzi is potentially much better than cat....time will tell if it works out that way...
now how these pieces work together...we will see...and as i said earlier....this is not a finished product...and im not sure how anyone could consider it that...but its now a playoff team that will have the ability to make some more moves, once these pieces have a chance to play together...
I think it's pretty near ludicrous to suggest that the time to blow up the Kings is when your three best players, who are all in the top 5 at their position in the league, are at their respective peaks in their careers. Then you add two very talented players who are also in their primes. And you want to blow it all up for lottery land?? When the Kings can realistically expect to be one of the top two or three teams in the Western Conference for the next three years and are -at worst- a longshot to contend for the championship??
For every Miami and San Antonio and Chicago that lucked into a superstar there's a Atlanta, New Orleans, Golden State and Los Angeles who wallow in mediocrity for long stretches of time. And then there are the Detroits in the world, who lurked in the fringes of the playoffs, added a great draft pick late in the first round, made a killer trade and won the chamiponship.
It's just pointless to blow it up now just because the Kings happen to be weak in the one area that you are obsessed with. Every team has weaknesses, even championship teams. That doesn't mean you go and blow everything up to refashion the team in your own monomaniacal image.
For every Miami and San Antonio and Chicago that lucked into a superstar there's a Atlanta, New Orleans, Golden State and Los Angeles who wallow in mediocrity for long stretches of time. And then there are the Detroits in the world, who lurked in the fringes of the playoffs, added a great draft pick late in the first round, made a killer trade and won the chamiponship.
It's just pointless to blow it up now just because the Kings happen to be weak in the one area that you are obsessed with. Every team has weaknesses, even championship teams. That doesn't mean you go and blow everything up to refashion the team in your own monomaniacal image.
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Bonzi's career high is about 17ppg, Cat's was 20ppg, and he averaged 18ppg for us. Realistically I can ask no more from Bonzi, and here's the kicker -- because SOMEBODY has gone out and acquired too many shooters, NONE of the guys in our starting lineup seem likely to "play up to potential", at least offensively. There will be about 12-14 shots available per starter. That means Bonzi is highly unlikely to best his career high (and let's hope he doesn't get upset about lack of shots), it means Peja is not scoring 25, it means Brad as the most unselfish guy may likely drift back toward 12 or so. This is the problem with the lineup -- bunch of good scorers, all somewhat underutilized at what they do well. Its like putting together a band made up of 5 guitarists, and then asking them to take turns switching off to bass, drums, and vox since you didn't think to hire any of those types. The band would sound a lot better if you had hired two guitarists, a vocalist, a bassist, and a drummer.
I am partial to Bonzi's style of play over Cat's and think it will be better for us, but production wise, I'll be happy with a wash.
I am partial to Bonzi's style of play over Cat's and think it will be better for us, but production wise, I'll be happy with a wash.
well...im not sure what ur saying here....
cant tell if ur disagreeing or agreeing...lol
whether bonzi averages as many points as mobley or not, to me, does very little to substantiate mobley being a wash with bonzi....
mobley is about offense....bonzi is potentially a much better all around player....better defender...better rebounder....and gives the kings the ability to go down low with him versus another perimeter player....
and thats why hes a potentially better player....and a potentially better fit....which i think u kinda said....so not sure
cant tell if ur disagreeing or agreeing...lol
whether bonzi averages as many points as mobley or not, to me, does very little to substantiate mobley being a wash with bonzi....
mobley is about offense....bonzi is potentially a much better all around player....better defender...better rebounder....and gives the kings the ability to go down low with him versus another perimeter player....
and thats why hes a potentially better player....and a potentially better fit....which i think u kinda said....so not sure
I heard Koz's show last night and Noticed "Homer Koz" is back. I like Koz but that was painful to listen to. You would have though SAR was a star or something. Hes an above average player not an all star even. I cant believe we are reduced to being happy with a player like SAR. Ill admit I'm not fan of SAR. I think hes very soft for a PF. A bad defender(H yeah thats right he fits right in ). and a descent scorer.
Im very disapointed in GP and brass. They promised us they would work on getting better defensively. But instead we are again a soft top 5 scoring team that will play absolutely NO defense. We will be embarrassed/embarrassing on a nightly basis. I can't wait to give up 120pts atleast 25 times this year.
Just sad.....
). and a descent scorer. Im very disapointed in GP and brass. They promised us they would work on getting better defensively. But instead we are again a soft top 5 scoring team that will play absolutely NO defense. We will be embarrassed/embarrassing on a nightly basis. I can't wait to give up 120pts atleast 25 times this year.
Just sad.....
The problem with this line of thought is that Petrie rarely makes major deals during the season. Richmond for Webber, Corliss for Christie, Williams for Bibby, the Miller deal - these were all made in the offseason. This last season, dumping Christie and Webber has been somewhat of an aberration IMO. As I see it, hope for a trade of one of the "Big 3" (probably Peja) would most likely have to come this summer, not during the season.
Brick, I'm a bit surprised by your last post. I can't say that you are wrong in your points during this thread, but your last point threw me for a bit of a loop. Mobley was and is a gunslinger. He's an undersized SG who takes bad shots, doesn't find the open man and only plays defense occasionally. The Kings have replaced him with a guy who is a better rebounder, a good defender (who can muscle up on bigger 2's) and who provides a post up dimension as well as adding toughness. And yet, your comparison of the two in your last post is limited to career scoring averages and possible shot attempts?
As for SAR, put me in the, "adding cheap talent isn't a bad thing". Now, if the case were really that the Kings planned on signing him to a 60 mil deal as reported I would be pissed. But for the MLE, I can't be upset about this move. It basically replaces Kenny Thomas as a soft, jumpshooting, and undersized PF with a slightly better model. It is an upgrade in the worst sense, but it is an upgrade.
In fact, SAR is LESS selfish offensively than Kenny Thomas is. He actually plays in the post, he's a decent passer and he's a better rebounder than most will acknowledge. I've always seen KT as a better player off the bench given his mindset, and this move allows that to be a possibility.
Of course, at this point I'm also ready to start dredging up the Peja/Artest swap again. . .
slugking50 said:
I heard Koz's show last night and Noticed "Homer Koz" is back. I like Koz but that was painful to listen to. You would have though SAR was a star or something. Hes an above average player not an all star even. I cant believe we are reduced to being happy with a player like SAR. Ill admit I'm not fan of SAR. I think hes very soft for a PF. A bad defender(H yeah thats right he fits right in ). and a descent scorer.
Im very disapointed in GP and brass. They promised us they would work on getting better defensively. But instead we are again a soft top 5 scoring team that will play absolutely NO defense. We will be embarrassed/embarrassing on a nightly basis. I can't wait to give up 120pts atleast 25 times this year.
Just sad.....
). and a descent scorer. Im very disapointed in GP and brass. They promised us they would work on getting better defensively. But instead we are again a soft top 5 scoring team that will play absolutely NO defense. We will be embarrassed/embarrassing on a nightly basis. I can't wait to give up 120pts atleast 25 times this year.
Just sad.....
Are the Kings a top defensive team? No, they're not, and I really hope they get better. But you don't have to be the #1 defensive team in the league to win a championship.
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Don't get me wrong -- I am MUCH more of a Bonzi fan than a Cat fan stylistically, and in PARTICULAR for us. But nonetheless I think we often go overboard in the neagtive asessment of Cat. He's a career-long major minutes starter, high teens scorer (once breaking 20ppg), and last year I think led the league in 3pt shooting. That's no scrub we're talking about. And as much as I have always loved Bonzi's potential, the fact is he's 29 this season and he's only twice pulled it together and had seasons on the level that Cat does annually.
Now before this most recent acquisition (assuming we do get Reef) I had hopes that we'd run enough of the offense through Bonzi to give him a chance to be a high teens type scorer again. But now the shots are going to be hard to come by for everybody, so maybe not. Actually I am still glad we have Bonzi over Cat in this situation, as Bonzi is pretty much the only one of our starters (maybe Brad) to do the other things well enough to justify being on the court if he's not scoring. But this is less titanic upgrade than subtle and potentially smart stylistic one. I only wish we'd been takijng those same things into consideration at PF.
Now before this most recent acquisition (assuming we do get Reef) I had hopes that we'd run enough of the offense through Bonzi to give him a chance to be a high teens type scorer again. But now the shots are going to be hard to come by for everybody, so maybe not. Actually I am still glad we have Bonzi over Cat in this situation, as Bonzi is pretty much the only one of our starters (maybe Brad) to do the other things well enough to justify being on the court if he's not scoring. But this is less titanic upgrade than subtle and potentially smart stylistic one. I only wish we'd been takijng those same things into consideration at PF.
Just another take on "cheap quality player that does not address Kings needs" vs "rebuilding through the lottery". There is no option.
If I am not mistaken, playoffs are quite profitable for owners, and I doubt that Maloofs would accept lottery path of building, one day, eventually, maybe, in time... some championship team.
So like it or not, if Sacramento wonts to have franchise, there is no option of lottery path, and in that light SAR acquisition is one that gives reasonable assurance that Kings will stay near the top of the league and in Sacramento.
Price: Forget championship barring some miracle (either Petrie's or injuries).
If I am not mistaken, playoffs are quite profitable for owners, and I doubt that Maloofs would accept lottery path of building, one day, eventually, maybe, in time... some championship team.
So like it or not, if Sacramento wonts to have franchise, there is no option of lottery path, and in that light SAR acquisition is one that gives reasonable assurance that Kings will stay near the top of the league and in Sacramento.
Price: Forget championship barring some miracle (either Petrie's or injuries).
If SAR comes I'll be happier in that the team IMO will be better than last year. I will also look at the squad with my own certainty that Peja or Miller will be traded before the season (or both). The squad's continuing weaknesses are too obvious for Petrie to be missing. I really think the trigger will be pulled.
Then again, we need the kind of player everyone in the league wishes they had. Those that have them let them go at the risk of becoming what the Kings are at present - entertaining teams with no chance at winning a title.
It'd be cool to get a Garnett type (or Brand!), but at present I find that a squad with an SAR addition to at least be competitive for a homecourt first round series. Mix that with the recurring ridiculous dream that Peja and Miller will have incredible seasons, and it makes for some decent homeristic dreaming of an overachieving squad that might even get past the 2nd round.
I'd still be interested to watch at least.
Then again, we need the kind of player everyone in the league wishes they had. Those that have them let them go at the risk of becoming what the Kings are at present - entertaining teams with no chance at winning a title.
It'd be cool to get a Garnett type (or Brand!), but at present I find that a squad with an SAR addition to at least be competitive for a homecourt first round series. Mix that with the recurring ridiculous dream that Peja and Miller will have incredible seasons, and it makes for some decent homeristic dreaming of an overachieving squad that might even get past the 2nd round.
I'd still be interested to watch at least.
Bricklayer said:
Peja/Thomas for Artest/Croshere (or Artest/Bender). Either works financially.
Get Indy on the phone.
Get Indy on the phone.
It's on thing to HOPE for these types of moves, it's another thing to EXPECT them. If you're going to live in Fantasy Land at least have the decency to refrain from badgering every single move the Kings actually make because it doesn't live up to your impossible and unrealistic expectations.
Come onnnnn Shareef! Sign on the dotted line!
Realistically, SAR is about as good as it gets without giving up either Brad, Mike or Peja, and I don't believe that they are willing to do so unless an offer comes along that you can't pass up. SAR is not a superstar, but he is a very very good player. It would be phenominal if GP could swing a deal for KG, Brand, Chandler or some other player that provides rebounding, defense and toughness. The problem is that there are 29 other teams in the league that realize that these types of players are at a premium now more than ever and the teams that have them are not going to give them up that easily, if at all. The addition of SAR will immediately make the Kings a much better and more dangerous team that IMO is almost as talented as the 2003 squad and is much more talented than last year's team, even before the trades of Doug and Chris. While we have all heard that the Kings realize their defensive deficiencies and that they want to improve defensively, they have also said that defense is a team concept and that a more dedicated team effort will go a long way, which makes me think that while it would be nice to add a defensive stopper they aren't going to because they want to stick with their core first and try the team defense thing once more...which worked in 2003.
No, not really. What happened in 2003 was that we had a bevy of very good defensive players, led by a defensive player of the year candidate, backed by an elite rangy shotblocker, a tough swingman etc. etc. We did NOT say to Mike or Peja or Vlade "ok, you guys go out and make this a good defensive team" -- we said to those guys "just try to hold your own and stay out of the way while Doug leads you and the defensive stalwarts do their job". (we also probably benefitted defensively from having Peja and Mike miss chunks of the early season).
Defense is just as contagious as passing, the problem is that we curently have nobody badly infected with the disease to pass it on to all of our softies.
Defense is just as contagious as passing, the problem is that we curently have nobody badly infected with the disease to pass it on to all of our softies.
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I didn't know that having one defensive specialist is considered a "bevy" or that Keon Clark was "elite." Good to know.
Actually, they PRECISELY said "go out and make this a good defensive team." The team was so effortless on offense that they could focus their effort on the defensive end, to great success. Bibby was a member of that team, so was Peja, and both of them have since gotten better on defense. Miller and Divac equals a wash, as does Webber and SAR. One defensive specialist (Christie) does not a defense make. It takes five players on defense.
Diabeticwonder is right. Defense is a team concept and it takes a team effort. And this team has just as many tools as that 2003 team did.
Actually, they PRECISELY said "go out and make this a good defensive team." The team was so effortless on offense that they could focus their effort on the defensive end, to great success. Bibby was a member of that team, so was Peja, and both of them have since gotten better on defense. Miller and Divac equals a wash, as does Webber and SAR. One defensive specialist (Christie) does not a defense make. It takes five players on defense.
Diabeticwonder is right. Defense is a team concept and it takes a team effort. And this team has just as many tools as that 2003 team did.