Same old story for Jimmer...

[3me]

I've been lurking around these forums since the day Jimmer was drafted and haven't made a peep, but I simply couldn't sit idly any longer after reading this.

What a load of Horse S***. IT has been given free reign to do exactly what you describe on the Kings offense. I watched nearly every game last season and couldn't believe how many games IT went 30+ minutes bricking shot after shot after shot with no substitutions, even late in the game when the Kings were down by double digits. Jimmer was 7th in the league and #1 among PG early last season in PER when Smart was actually giving him some decent minutes. Nobody can tell me that Jimmer has had a fair shake in this league when losers like Isaiah Thomas is given the green light game in and game out dribbling around in circles and throwing up circus shots at will.





It's quotes like these that reveal that IT is just as bad, if not a worse defender than Jimmer, yet why is it that time after time, IT is given a pass?



Why is it that Marcus Thornton is given a pass after playing absolutely TERRIBLE so far in this preseason? All we have to judge so far is these past few games and Jimmer has made MT look like a high school player, yet "MT will start and MT will do well in Malone's system". Right.

Like I've said, I've watched these boards for a very long time and I honestly don't get the cheap shots at Jimmer. I can only guess it has something to do with how Smart treated him last year. I seriously don't get it.

Again, Jimmer was one of the most productive scorers in the league early last year, before he got hit with consecutive DNPs. He was scoring just behind guys like Kobe, Lebron, CP3 and Durant, and ahead of Deron Williams. I don't care what anyone tells me about his defense, if a guy is scoring as efficiently as guys like that, YOU DON'T BENCH HIM.

I'm really sick of the BS, I really am. All I'm asking is give Jimmer 1 friggin week of 30+ minutes, like IT got ALL season last year. If he doesn't pull in at least 20ppg, at least you can say he's had his chance and we can settle this crap. But I'm going to tell you that until he's given a FAIR shake in this league, these arguments will never end. All I'm saying is free Jimmer and prove us wrong.

Excellent, excellent post, my friend. Very well said and spot on. At this point, I am too physically and emotionally tired to defend Jimmer with such passion anymore, but you did a great job of reading my mind. The injustice surrounding Jimmer Fredette goes waaaay beyond basketball ability. I won't get into the reasons why Jimmer is being black balled, I know it will only lead to me being banned. All I can do is hope the injustice stops long enough to allow Jimmer a real opportunity.

 

[swisshh]

IT has junkball games. He still defends, hustles for rebounds, hustles for loose balls, and brings the ball up court versus pressure. That's the difference between he and Jimmer. I am not sure Jimmer can play PG in the league unless his ball handling greatly improves. I get frustrated seeing him watch loose balls and rebounds fall within his vicinity. When you're struggling to stick in the league, you got to go after those things.

 

[mac]

If Jimmer is impressing the coach during practice, he'll get more PT. If, on the other hand, he's not then he won't. I just don't understand the mindset of many fans that apparently thinks Jimmer is some invisible gem that every single coach, assistant coach, scout, etc. is overlooking.

I'm not sure if this was in response to my post VF, but I really don't think it's as simple as that. The fact is that we have a logjam at the 1 and 2, and Jimmer could be playing twice as well as Travis Outlaw but still not get minutes (while Travis does). Also, "every single coach, assistant coach, scout" is kinda = Keith Smart at this point. Just look at Jeremy Lin! Waived, sent to the D-League multiple times, 4th or 5th in the depth chart at his position (so even more coaches, assitant coaches and scouts wrote him off!). Then people are out with injuries, and D'Antoni finally plays Lin. Prior to that point in the season Lin had only played 55 minutes through 23 games. That's barely 2.5 minutes/game. And what happens? Lin breaks out. I don't think Lin suddenly started playing a whole lot better in practice than he had before. It was just good circumstances that allowed him to show what he had, and it worked out for him.

I'm not saying that Jimmer is just like Jeremy Lin. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't write a player's ability off just because he hasn't been getting PT early in his career, under a dumb head coach. Like it or not there are many many more factors that affect whether a player gets PT other than his performance during practice.

 

[VF21]

Excellent, excellent post, my friend. Very well said and spot on. At this point, I am too physically and emotionally tired to defend Jimmer with such passion anymore, but you did a great job of reading my mind. The injustice surrounding Jimmer Fredette goes waaaay beyond basketball ability. I won't get into the reasons why Jimmer is being black balled, I know it will only lead to me being banned. All I can do is hope the injustice stops long enough to allow Jimmer a real opportunity.

"De Nile" apparently isn't just a river in Egypt.

Injustice? Black-balling? Good grief. Do you not understand that you're treating Jimmer as though he's completely helpless to speak for himself and making him an object of pity and ridicule?

Show some respect for him and yourself. Instead of coming here and whining about how badly he's been mistreated, try reading what some of us are trying to say. We hear your underlying complaint and many of us tend to agree. We do not agree, however, with the victim label some of you insist of putting on him.

He's a big boy and he's making $2 million this season. He can stand up for himself. Or is he just too sensitive and fragile to do so?

 

[Glenn]

The well-known mantra is that shooters have to just keep shooting even when their shot isn't falling, but how many times has Jimmer been left in a game when his shot wasn't falling?

Very seldom if ever. That was under Smart. Let's see what happens under Malone.

 

[VF21]

I'm not sure if this was in response to my post VF, but I really don't think it's as simple as that. The fact is that we have a logjam at the 1 and 2, and Jimmer could be playing twice as well as Travis Outlaw but still not get minutes (while Travis does). Also, "every single coach, assistant coach, scout" is kinda = Keith Smart at this point. Just look at Jeremy Lin! Waived, sent to the D-League multiple times, 4th or 5th in the depth chart at his position (so even more coaches, assitant coaches and scouts wrote him off!). Then people are out with injuries, and D'Antoni finally plays Lin. Prior to that point in the season Lin had only played 55 minutes through 23 games. That's barely 2.5 minutes/game. And what happens? Lin breaks out. I don't think Lin suddenly started playing a whole lot better in practice than he had before. It was just good circumstances that allowed him to show what he had, and it worked out for him.

I'm not saying that Jimmer is just like Jeremy Lin. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't write a player's ability off just because he hasn't been getting PT early in his career, under a dumb head coach. Like it or not there are many many more factors that affect whether a player gets PT other than his performance during practice.

OMG. I give up. I absolutely refuse to compare any of our new coaches to Keith Smart, and I'm beyond stunned that anyone else would. Did you miss the last year?

What I'm saying is that the past is the stupid past. People need to quit crying about it and give the clean slate to all concerned, Jimmer AND the coaches. Let them work together to figure out if there is a place for Jimmer in our rotation. I'm very well aware of the factors that affect whether a player gets playing time. One of the most important is his own hunger and desire. If he's hungry enough and tries hard enough in practice, he'll get a chance to prove himself.

It's not about Jeremy Lin and it's not about Keith Smart.

Remember, I was and am a big fan of Kevin Martin. It took years for him to step out and find a niche. And he's done quite well. He never reached the heights some of his fans wanted, but that's because their expectations were unrealistic.

I have never written off Jimmer's ability. What I'm writing off are the obvious player fanboy types who come here and want to lecture us about what's right for our team, when until their fave signed with us they didn't know a thing about us.

 

[Glenn]

Excellent, excellent post, my friend. Very well said and spot on. At this point, I am too physically and emotionally tired to defend Jimmer with such passion anymore, but you did a great job of reading my mind. The injustice surrounding Jimmer Fredette goes waaaay beyond basketball ability. I won't get into the reasons why Jimmer is being black balled, I know it will only lead to me being banned. All I can do is hope the injustice stops long enough to allow Jimmer a real opportunity.

If you know you could be banned for going further with this, then maybe you are wrong. It's an over the top claim that Jimmer is being black balled. Maybe you should look up the word before you use it. Evidence for any of this is scant, especially the blackballing part, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some favoritism involved. "Favoritism" is a far cry from "black balling" and I hope you understand that.

If Smart was showing favoritism, he was going against the owners' wishes and it is at this part where your more extreme view falls apart. Many if not most of the people on this forum think that Jimmer was drafted by the Kings to sell merchandise as much as for any basketball skills he might have.

 

[mac]

OMG. I give up. I absolutely refuse to compare any of our new coaches to Keith Smart, and I'm beyond stunned that anyone else would. Did you miss the last year?

What I'm saying is that the past is the stupid past. People need to quit crying about it and give the clean slate to all concerned, Jimmer AND the coaches. Let them work together to figure out if there is a place for Jimmer in our rotation. I'm very well aware of the factors that affect whether a player gets playing time. One of the most important is his own hunger and desire. If he's hungry enough and tries hard enough in practice, he'll get a chance to prove himself.

It's not about Jeremy Lin and it's not about Keith Smart.

Remember, I was and am a big fan of Kevin Martin. It took years for him to step out and find a niche. And he's done quite well. He never reached the heights some of his fans wanted, but that's because their expectations were unrealistic.

I have never written off Jimmer's ability. What I'm writing off are the obvious player fanboy types who come here and want to lecture us about what's right for our team, when until their fave signed with us they didn't know a thing about us.

I'm rather offended by your post VF as it's clear you haven't understood my posts at all. I'm not in any way or another saying that Jimmer deserves minutes or whatever. I'm saying that the idea of "if he impresses in practice he'll get playing time" isn't always true, regardless of the coach. I'm also saying that many here have already written Jimmer off as a borderline NBA player, and they do so with the rationale being that Jimmer isn't going to develop further, or that if he were any good he'd have gotten PT by now. My posts were intended to show that such a notion may not be accurate.

But whatever, if you don't get my point I won't bother trying to explain it anymore since it's such a put off for you.

 

[VF21]

Apparently, you're not getting my point either so I agree. It'd best we just quit trying.

 

[dude12]

Excellent, excellent post, my friend. Very well said and spot on. At this point, I am too physically and emotionally tired to defend Jimmer with such passion anymore, but you did a great job of reading my mind. The injustice surrounding Jimmer Fredette goes waaaay beyond basketball ability. I won't get into the reasons why Jimmer is being black balled, I know it will only lead to me being banned. All I can do is hope the injustice stops long enough to allow Jimmer a real opportunity.

Let me guess.....your a BYU fan.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

At this point, I am too physically and emotionally tired to defend Jimmer with such passion anymore

The drama is strong with this one...

 

[VF21]

The drama is strong with this one...

He/she has been a member of this board for 2 days. It makes you wonder where he/she has been investing so much physical and emotional energy in defending Jimmer before he/she got here...

 

[sqwalk]

I'll say this, the reason I started watching the Kings was because of Jimmer as I've always been a huge fan, and frankly I like rooting for underdogs, especially someone as nice as Jimmer. But even though Jimmer is what I came to see, I also found it fun to root for Kings as well (even though I'm a born Lakers fan. Please don't hate). As I said, I like rooting for the underdogs, so I guess the Kings fit this category well.

The problem I saw was this. When Jimmer was drafted, it came with a huge fan base and unrealistic expectations. Some of the players took the "jimmer mania" personal (rightfully so) so they tested him in practice (totally understandable). So what does Jimmer do? He tried to be a good teammate and defer the shot and basically played very passively. So passively that he lost some of his confidence and virtually went away from what got him to the NBA in the first place - his shooting. At the same time, I'm sure the speed of the NBA was a little shocking to him as well. Some of this is on Jimmer, as his personality is just so mild manner that while MT and IT were demanding minutes by being vocal leaders with a little edge to them along with their gameplay, Jimmer just seemed very passive in comparison as he tried to fit in. He definitely looked like a deer in headlights his first year.

Last year Jimmer's overall game improved (you're probably thinking his game had nowhere to go but up. Heh, that's true, but stay with me here). Even though his fan base may be crazy (yes, I'm a little crazy) his teammates also really started to like him. I mean, it is hard not to like the guy. I think with that, his confidence also grew.

I do think that Smart yanked him around a lot and and at the same time there was really no such thing as player development - which Jimmer probably needed more then anybody. So I write this off as both a terrible coach and horrible management.

So now we are on to this year. I fully expect Jimmer to make a bigger impact and help the Kings improve this year. So far, it looks like his game (and confidence) has ratcheted it up another notch this year. Maybe not starter material, but a 12-15 min crowd spark off the bench doesn't seem like a huge stretch.

But, one thing I can't get my head around is this. How is Malone going to find minutes for Mclemore, Thorton, and Jimmer? I mean, say Mclemore starts. Is Jimmer really going to come in before Thorton? If so, there goes 8 mil and trade value, not to mention that Thornton may just go postal.

If Thorton starts, then Mclemore definitely comes in and Jimmer is left biting his nails on the bench. I mean he's good at that, but after playing well, you would think he would deserve some minutes.

Anyway, I don't envy Malone's position and I'm sure at some point a guard or two will be traded for hopefully a much needed big. If not, just to clear some space for current player development.

Brick, Entity, Pedrino and others who don't care for Jimmer (I'm sure you like him personally). Just please give him a chance to prove himself this year before totally writing him off. Perhaps he won't totally change your mind, but maybe he might have more to offer then you thought once his role has finally been established. I'm not expecting greatness, just some steady play.

Yes, I want to see Jimmer play. Not because I want to see him pump up his stats and be the college superstar that he was. But I sincerely think he can fill a needed role and help contribute to this team's progress. Hey, maybe I'm just wishful thinking. It sure wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Sac.1989]

Why is it that Marcus Thornton is given a pass after playing absolutely TERRIBLE so far in this preseason? All we have to judge so far is these past few games and Jimmer has made MT look like a high school player, yet "MT will start and MT will do well in Malone's system". Right.

.

MT and Malone know each other from their days in NO. Rest assured MT will be the starting SG come opening night. The preseasons for assessing our non proven commodities and that is exactly how Malone is using it. Yes I just called MT a proven commodity and he is as he proved when he came here. 30+ points against the heat and earning the respect of lebron don't happen every day. MT knows Malones defensive schemes and his offensive schemes the two have a good rapport and im sure we will see MT have an upturn in mins as preseason draws to a close.

I cant wait for the day where m16 takes over but for now MT is goona get us buckets at the 2

 

[Hadlowe]

MT and Malone know each other from their days in NO. Rest assured MT will be the starting SG come opening night. The preseasons for assessing our non proven commodities and that is exactly how Malone is using it. Yes I just called MT a proven commodity and he is as he proved when he came here. 30+ points against the heat and earning the respect of lebron don't happen every day. MT knows Malones defensive schemes and his offensive schemes the two have a good rapport and im sure we will see MT have an upturn in mins as preseason draws to a close.

I cant wait for the day where m16 takes over but for now MT is goona get us buckets at the 2

MT was taken out of the rotation completely in New Orleans. Rumor has it because he was selfish on offense and uncommitted on defense. What exactly has changed?

 

[3me]

Let me guess.....your a BYU fan.

Florida Gator through and through. I knew Jason Williams well before anyone on this board knew he existed.

 

[Kingster]

The Kings management has talked about how one player can look poorly because he's surrounded by teamates not compatible with his skills or lack thereof. I think Jimmer could be a case in point. If you put Jimmer on a team with some defensive talent, especially bigs that can make up for the defensive mistakes of others, he could be a valuable piece. Then, instead of the focus being on his defensive weakness, it would be on his offensive prowess. How would Jimmer do on a Houston in which Howard can cover for him? Or Indiana? I think he could be valuable for those type of teams in winning big games. But with the Kings? Not unless they get athletic freaks at the 4 and the 3. Right now, Jimmer is hurt as much by the players around him as by his own weaknesses.

 

[bajaden]

baja, I always appreciate your insight and wisdom. Boy, and to think you used to be so rebellious when you were a youngter? It's amazing what age will do to you, huh.

Yeah, it gives you a lot of wrinkles and bad knees.

 

[bajaden]

Florida Gator through and through. I knew Jason Williams well before anyone on this board knew he existed.

Gator's should be pretty good this year! Not good enough, but a team to watch.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Gator's should be pretty good this year! Not good enough, but a team to watch.

Well when you get a pass for recruiting violations it does give your school an edge

 

[bajaden]

The Kings management has talked about how one player can look poorly because he's surrounded by teamates not compatible with his skills or lack thereof. I think Jimmer could be a case in point. If you put Jimmer on a team with some defensive talent, especially bigs that can make up for the defensive mistakes of others, he could be a valuable piece. Then, instead of the focus being on his defensive weakness, it would be on his offensive prowess. How would Jimmer do on a Houston in which Howard can cover for him? Or Indiana? I think he could be valuable for those type of teams in winning big games. But with the Kings? Not unless they get athletic freaks at the 4 and the 3. Right now, Jimmer is hurt as much by the players around him as by his own weaknesses.

Good point. The bottom line is, players are to some extent, victims of circumstance, and perception. Sometimes the perception is true. James Johnson being an example. Other times not, Chris Webber being the opposite example. Yet we as fans are inclined to buy into that perception. I think its a natural instinct to want to box up and label things in our life. It just makes everything more neat and orderly. We tend to do it with people as well. Its like moving into a neighborhood, and everyone tells you the guy that lives in the 2nd house on the left is a real jerk. Most people will then avoid that person. Me, being a jerk in my own right, I'll go knock on his door just to see if its true or not. Sometimes it is, and sometimes its not. Point is, I made up my own mind about that person and didn't let someone else make it up for me. The very reason I hate to read mock draft analysis. I just don't like having seeds planted in my mind.

My good friend Barry used to say that life is like traveling on a bus. Do you want to be a passenger, or the driver? In regards to Jimmer, perception is what fans buy into, not coaching staffs. I do think Jimmer will get a fair shake this time around. In the end he could just be the victim of numbers. But I suspect that eventually he'll find is nitch. If not with us, then with another team. As Mac said, sometimes its just a matter of being in the right place at the right time. Webb bounced around the league for a while, and his reputation took a big hit. He came to the Kings, and everything just fit. He didn't have a Nellie asking him to play out of position. And to endorse another of Mac's points, Webb always thought of himself as a star, and just acted like one. Jimmer doesn't act like one. He is at his core, a team player. Webber was a star in college in his first year. It took Jimmer two years to become the player he was his last two years. One was naturally gifted and one wasn't. No right or wrong to it. Height aside, they're just different players, and personalities.

 

[bajaden]

Well when you get a pass for recruiting violations it does give your school an edge

Picky picky! Don't get upset with Florida, get upset with the Nazi organization called the NCAA.

 

[macadocious]

Excellent, excellent post, my friend. Very well said and spot on. At this point, I am too physically and emotionally tired to defend Jimmer with such passion anymore, but you did a great job of reading my mind. The injustice surrounding Jimmer Fredette goes waaaay beyond basketball ability. I won't get into the reasons why Jimmer is being black balled, I know it will only lead to me being banned. All I can do is hope the injustice stops long enough to allow Jimmer a real opportunity.

 

[t-rex]

Florida Gator through and through. I knew Jason Williams well before anyone on this board knew he existed.

Good guess hahaha

I'm actually an Alabama Basketball fan. I'm sure a lot of folks think I'm a BYU fan too because I think Jimmer hasn't had a fair shake.

SEC!

I'm a long time Sacramento Kings Fan and I'm pro-Jimmer on this board. Yes we are in the minority.

 

[t-rex]

Let me guess.....your a BYU fan.

Might want to stop guessing.

 

[Bricklayer]

This thread makes me lol. If Jimmer suddenly decided to go on his Mormon mission tommorow to convert penguins down in Antartica for 2 years, I am not sure we lose one single extra game than if he did not. There are literally dozens of backup guards around the league that we could probably swap Jimmer one for one for and come out just as strong if not stronger. But no, here we are again going page after page after page about Jimmer freaking Fredette. The irrational exuberance around this player of all random NBA rank and filers has never failed to amaze me.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Good guess hahaha

I'm actually an Alabama Basketball fan. I'm sure a lot of folks think I'm a BYU fan too because I think Jimmer hasn't had a fair shake.

SEC!

I'm a long time Sacramento Kings Fan and I'm pro-Jimmer on this board. Yes we are in the minority.

I'm pretty sure everyone on this board is pro-Jimmer. Unfortunately for Jimmer most of us are also pro-Kings, which is why we don't see him getting significant PT with the roster as it is. The "pro-" Jimmer thing is as facetious and misleading as the term "pro-life", and I think you know that no one on this forum is actually rooting against Jimmer. I don't know why you feel the need to coin a term that really has no relevance to the discussion.

 

[Dime Dropper]

This thread makes me lol. If Jimmer suddenly decided to go on his Mormon mission tommorow to convert penguins down in Antartica for 2 years, I am not sure we lose one single extra game than if he did not. There are literally dozens of backup guards around the league that we could probably swap Jimmer one for one for and come out just as strong if not stronger. But no, here we are again going page after page after page about Jimmer freaking Fredette. The irrational exuberance around this player of all random NBA rank and filers has never failed to amaze me.

Give Jimmer a couple years with those penguins, though, and they're probably favourites for the title.

 

[Glenn]

I'm pretty sure everyone on this board is pro-Jimmer. Unfortunately for Jimmer most of us are also pro-Kings, which is why we don't see him getting significant PT with the roster as it is. The "pro-" Jimmer thing is as facetious and misleading as the term "pro-life", and I think you know that no one on this forum is actually rooting against Jimmer. I don't know why you feel the need to coin a term that really has no relevance to the discussion.

Thank you oh young and vigorous one. I wanted to know what pro-Jimmer was also. Do people really think there are people on this forum rooting for Jimmer to fail?

 

[t-rex]

This thread makes me lol. If Jimmer suddenly decided to go on his Mormon mission tommorow to convert penguins down in Antartica for 2 years, I am not sure we lose one single extra game than if he did not.

I'm not sure I get the humor in taking a shot at Jimmer's religion. You stay classy brick.