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I'm tossing out insults and demeaning comments? You're the only one using the label of troll. You've used it on a couple occasions already. Will I accomplish what I've set out to do? To put on full display some of the ingrained faulty logic of some of the King's fans here? I certainly hope so.
Ditto. When people use detrimental and unfounded gotcha labels like "unathletic" or "poor handler" I'm making sure they're going to back it up with facts which are hard to find around here when it comes to Jimmer. If you don't like that, too bad, I'm going to call you on it anyway.
So a player who has had a micro-fraction of minutes over the years compared to other players on this team is suddenly expending the others? That's some backwards logic there.
I may not change many minds, but win an argument? Sure, that's easy.
Ditto. When people use detrimental and unfounded gotcha labels like "unathletic" or "poor handler" I'm making sure they're going to back it up with facts which are hard to find around here when it comes to Jimmer. If you don't like that, too bad, I'm going to call you on it anyway.
So a player who has had a micro-fraction of minutes over the years compared to other players on this team is suddenly expending the others? That's some backwards logic there.
I may not change many minds, but win an argument? Sure, that's easy.
Let me just speak up as a fan of basketball that started watching the kings because of Jimmer. Kings aren't my favorite team... I'm a loyal Mavs fan, but I'll still root for them if/when Jimmer is traded (unless playing against the Mavs - still bitter about the 02-03 playoffs!)
I realllllly get annoyed by the Jimmer fans of the rabid variety that can't hold their tongues and have to pick fights. Even if they don't think their statements are outlandish, they never get any ground by making them and actually do Jimmer a disservice in my opinion. If you really cared about his development (and he HAS developed and needs to continue to develop) you would avoid all of this crap. A lot of people read this forum (much more than those who respond) and when a thread like this ends up dominating a day's conversation it helps form national opinion. When you get in a "can't win" fight against people that know a heck of a lot more about the team than you do, a lot of counter arguments get generated, and more extreme views in the opposite direction are taken.
The one thing that EVERYONE agrees on was that Smart was bad for the team and stunted player growth (Jimmer included). Smart is gone, Malone is here. I'm excited to see if Jimmer can prove himself. It's his job to win, and those 3 pointers need to keep falling.
Please, Kingsfans members, don't judge a large pro-jimmer fanbase by the really annoying fanboys that jump on here and waste your time. Ignore them.
I've made pro-Jimmer comments here before, but I try to provide insight void of emotion and about other kings players and concerns. I tend to think that Jimmer has improved a lot and he might be ready for the 2nd or 3rd guy (not just guard) off the bench role which could one day get him ready to be a starter, but that's yet to be proved by him... (Brick and others might disagree vehemently, but that's what healthy debate is about).
I realllllly get annoyed by the Jimmer fans of the rabid variety that can't hold their tongues and have to pick fights. Even if they don't think their statements are outlandish, they never get any ground by making them and actually do Jimmer a disservice in my opinion. If you really cared about his development (and he HAS developed and needs to continue to develop) you would avoid all of this crap. A lot of people read this forum (much more than those who respond) and when a thread like this ends up dominating a day's conversation it helps form national opinion. When you get in a "can't win" fight against people that know a heck of a lot more about the team than you do, a lot of counter arguments get generated, and more extreme views in the opposite direction are taken.
The one thing that EVERYONE agrees on was that Smart was bad for the team and stunted player growth (Jimmer included). Smart is gone, Malone is here. I'm excited to see if Jimmer can prove himself. It's his job to win, and those 3 pointers need to keep falling.
Please, Kingsfans members, don't judge a large pro-jimmer fanbase by the really annoying fanboys that jump on here and waste your time. Ignore them.
I've made pro-Jimmer comments here before, but I try to provide insight void of emotion and about other kings players and concerns. I tend to think that Jimmer has improved a lot and he might be ready for the 2nd or 3rd guy (not just guard) off the bench role which could one day get him ready to be a starter, but that's yet to be proved by him... (Brick and others might disagree vehemently, but that's what healthy debate is about).
Are you in fact Jimmer himself letting off some steam?
I am rooting for dude but c'mon you're so far off base you're flirting with AWOL status.
Let's analyze your rant, shall we?:
Admittedly he looks to have improved his court vision, but you've personally seen improvement in EVERY aspect of his game? Were we watching the same preseason?
Yes he played well against a weak team...in preseason...once. Let's start him?
Let's see what Isaiah Thomas did the last time he played the Suns (In the regular season BTW)
27 PTS, 5 RBS, 6 AST, 5 STS
You think he's better than this guy?
he's better in almost every statistical category, per game or per 36
You're saying two very, very different things;
Shooter? Arguably...(McLemore and Thornton?)
Playmaker? Absolutely not. He can't create his own shot.
Nope, not even close. IT, Ray and MT have more in the bag than Jimmer. He doesn't have the handles to play PG in the NBA, sorry. We've seen him for two years straight get trapped at half court and luckily his escape passes have kept him from tons of TO's. If he wants minutes on this team it'll likely be at the two where homeboy will be open from 3 which is his strength.
I hear that.
"Defense?" Indeed. You're saying his lack of D will be made up for by the other great defenders we have? Yeah right, we're weak enough at D as it is. In today's game of hyper athletic guards we cannot afford to let Jimmer attempt to guard Westbrook/Irving/Wall for 30+ minutes a night.
Nope, see above.
Random unfounded diss to MT.
He had every right to "pout" last season as he was pushed to a bench role and only started 8 games.
Look,
Jimmer is a pretty good shooter. He also seems like a cool dude who's willing to play team basketball.
That's awesome and we here at KF want him to succeed.
The problem is that we're an NBA franchise desperately trying to get some damn W's and we have some other pieces that are better at the moment. Unfortunately he's the 3rd option at both PG and SG. (Maybe even 4th at PG) I hope Jimmer bounces back this season and secures some minutes off the bench but you are exaggerating his talent.
-Sincerly,
Everyone on KF.com
I am rooting for dude but c'mon you're so far off base you're flirting with AWOL status.
Let's analyze your rant, shall we?:
Admittedly he looks to have improved his court vision, but you've personally seen improvement in EVERY aspect of his game? Were we watching the same preseason?
Yes he played well against a weak team...in preseason...once. Let's start him?
Let's see what Isaiah Thomas did the last time he played the Suns (In the regular season BTW)
27 PTS, 5 RBS, 6 AST, 5 STS
You think he's better than this guy?
You're saying two very, very different things;
Shooter? Arguably...(McLemore and Thornton?)
Playmaker? Absolutely not. He can't create his own shot.
Nope, not even close. IT, Ray and MT have more in the bag than Jimmer. He doesn't have the handles to play PG in the NBA, sorry. We've seen him for two years straight get trapped at half court and luckily his escape passes have kept him from tons of TO's. If he wants minutes on this team it'll likely be at the two where homeboy will be open from 3 which is his strength.
I hear that.
"Defense?" Indeed. You're saying his lack of D will be made up for by the other great defenders we have? Yeah right, we're weak enough at D as it is. In today's game of hyper athletic guards we cannot afford to let Jimmer attempt to guard Westbrook/Irving/Wall for 30+ minutes a night.
Nope, see above.
Random unfounded diss to MT.
He had every right to "pout" last season as he was pushed to a bench role and only started 8 games.
Look,
Jimmer is a pretty good shooter. He also seems like a cool dude who's willing to play team basketball.
That's awesome and we here at KF want him to succeed.
The problem is that we're an NBA franchise desperately trying to get some damn W's and we have some other pieces that are better at the moment. Unfortunately he's the 3rd option at both PG and SG. (Maybe even 4th at PG) I hope Jimmer bounces back this season and secures some minutes off the bench but you are exaggerating his talent.
-Sincerly,
Everyone on KF.com
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I've been more than fair and given you every opportunity to prove you're capable of interacting without rancor. You've consistently chosen not to do so.
You obviously have NOT bothered to read the responses of those who bring up points you do not want to acknowledge. That's your problem, not that of everyone else around here.
I was actually agreeing with you. You've got yourself worked up so much you aren't realizing that a number of posters are actually not that far apart from some of your points.
You obviously have NOT bothered to read the responses of those who bring up points you do not want to acknowledge. That's your problem, not that of everyone else around here.
I was actually agreeing with you. You've got yourself worked up so much you aren't realizing that a number of posters are actually not that far apart from some of your points.
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And you did such a great job of ignoring me, you had to post 4 paragraphs insulting me. I'm "rabid" and "annoying", but you "try to provide insight void of emotion". Got it.
Anyone who calls themselves a "Jimmer fan" and lets people get away with trashing him without backing their statements up with facts is not a real Jimmer fan at all IMO.
Oops, I'm trolling again! Post the funny cartoons again!
Anyone who calls themselves a "Jimmer fan" and lets people get away with trashing him without backing their statements up with facts is not a real Jimmer fan at all IMO.
Oops, I'm trolling again! Post the funny cartoons again!
No kidding. There are several of us with fully functioning brains who like Jimmer. When outlandish comments with a touch of 'tude is the response we get, we address the outlandish statement and not the part of the note we agree with.
Jimmer's fate may rest a great deal on whatever this "new culture" is. If the new culture is that of a bunch of players who share the ball and value team over their own personal stats, Jimmer may bypass IT and MT may be traded as he has value. Jimmer can move the ball. He is not a JWill but he has a good court vision and good court sense. This is what I wish IT would develop. Jimmer looks far more comfortable this year and I think it is because Malone values him for what he is: a shooter with a PG mentality although perhaps little PG ability. In other words, he's a shooter who also will share the ball which is much unlike several players still on the team. We have several players who think that when they get the ball, they are obligated to shoot. That is not Jimmer and it may be the salvation as to his Kings' career.
Jimmer's fate may rest a great deal on whatever this "new culture" is. If the new culture is that of a bunch of players who share the ball and value team over their own personal stats, Jimmer may bypass IT and MT may be traded as he has value. Jimmer can move the ball. He is not a JWill but he has a good court vision and good court sense. This is what I wish IT would develop. Jimmer looks far more comfortable this year and I think it is because Malone values him for what he is: a shooter with a PG mentality although perhaps little PG ability. In other words, he's a shooter who also will share the ball which is much unlike several players still on the team. We have several players who think that when they get the ball, they are obligated to shoot. That is not Jimmer and it may be the salvation as to his Kings' career.
The trashing occured because you (and others like you) stirred it up. It's the Occupy Wallstreet technique... you go out and decide to stage a huge protest on the brooklyn bridge. You block traffic and ruin the day for 100k commuters. Then, when the police come to remove you, you make a big scene. Then you post the footage on youtube so that everyone can see the "brutality" in action. My point is, temper your comments. Be realistic. Meet people where they are. Don't start on the offensive. Acknowledge other perspectives. Build! Using terms like "loser-team" and other things like that don't help you make your arguments.
I stand by the belief that you do more harm than good, and I don't want to contribute to that.
I stand by the belief that you do more harm than good, and I don't want to contribute to that.
There's a place for Jimmer on every team in the league; you can never have enough shooting.
It has been fun to see him improve his game this preseason and show he's just not a 12th man bench warmer, but a player who can possibly contribute off the bench. Until we thin the guards out, there's just no room to write him into the rotation unless he goes and takes a spot from someone slotted above him. Which, might be possible with what he's been able to show this preseason.
It has been fun to see him improve his game this preseason and show he's just not a 12th man bench warmer, but a player who can possibly contribute off the bench. Until we thin the guards out, there's just no room to write him into the rotation unless he goes and takes a spot from someone slotted above him. Which, might be possible with what he's been able to show this preseason.
You could be dead right about the longevity of Jimmer, Thornton, and IT, as far as the Kings are concerned. Obviously McLemore is the heir apparent to the SG job, and so far he's done nothing to make me believe otherwise. He had a shaky summer league, but I'll attribute some of that to trying too hard to prove he deserved to be taken higher, and some to just plain inexperience. I've been very surprised at his improvement since then. His handles are better, and his BBIQ seems to have taken a giant leap forward. Which shows two things. He's very coachable, and that he's also a quick learner. Both those qualities lend themselves very well to his future.
Of the three of them, I think one will be retained. As to who that one is, your guess is as good as mine. They didn't draft McCallum just for the fun of it. He may not be ready for big time right now, but he appears to be part of their future. They already had Evans, IT, and Jimmer on the team. So they didn't have a great need for another PG, especially when there were a couple of players available at positions of need. Like any new regime, they probably want as many of their own choices as possible, so those left over from the Petrie era may have their days numbered. All except Cousins of course.
VERY INTERESTING comment, Gary. I went back and checked and the earlier conversation was with spudfan. Is there something you'd like to confess?
EDIT: I went further back and see what you're talking about. I did NOT delete your post. All I did was delete the racial comment and the reference to it. Sorry for any confusion but nothing was removed other than the aforementioned comment.
EDIT: I went further back and see what you're talking about. I did NOT delete your post. All I did was delete the racial comment and the reference to it. Sorry for any confusion but nothing was removed other than the aforementioned comment.
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IT is a nice asset to have right now if only because relative to his contract his on court production is a huge bargain. This offseason IT will be looking to rectify that and cash in. Depending on what the market dictates, he may be gone if the going rate gets too steep for the Kings, especially if they view him as a sparkplug off the bench as I do.
The Kings have a team option on Jimmer. If he really plays well this season his $3.2 million price tag might be palatable for the Kings. Otherwise the Kings will either look to resign him for less than that figure or let him go outright. Personally I think the little I've seen of Jimmer in the preseason makes me think the team could very well pick up his option, something I wouldn't have thought based on the previous two seasons.
Thornton probably has the best chance of remaining on the team simply because of his current deal. Sadly I think he's more likely to stay with the Kings if he continues to struggle as there won't be a market for him whereas if he starts and puts up great numbers he could be a trade piece at the deadline or in the offseason. Either way, he's an ending contract NEXT season.
I don't think the front office is opposed to keeping any of them, but right now I assume it's a wait-and-see approach with all three and likely with Vasquez as well who is a restricted free agent. After all, if the FO were really sold on him they woudn't have been pushing to sign Calderon.
Honestly, I don't think we'll keep all four guards for all of this season. Two have ending contracts, one has a team option and the fourth is standing in the way of the FO's prize rookie having a starting spot. Again, I had hoped Thornton would come out the gate hot, be a 20 ppg scorer and up his trade value. But it may more likely that Jimmer or IT (or even Vasquez) gets paired with an ending contract (Salmons or Patterson) in a swap with a team looking to cut payroll.
The Kings have a team option on Jimmer. If he really plays well this season his $3.2 million price tag might be palatable for the Kings. Otherwise the Kings will either look to resign him for less than that figure or let him go outright. Personally I think the little I've seen of Jimmer in the preseason makes me think the team could very well pick up his option, something I wouldn't have thought based on the previous two seasons.
Thornton probably has the best chance of remaining on the team simply because of his current deal. Sadly I think he's more likely to stay with the Kings if he continues to struggle as there won't be a market for him whereas if he starts and puts up great numbers he could be a trade piece at the deadline or in the offseason. Either way, he's an ending contract NEXT season.
I don't think the front office is opposed to keeping any of them, but right now I assume it's a wait-and-see approach with all three and likely with Vasquez as well who is a restricted free agent. After all, if the FO were really sold on him they woudn't have been pushing to sign Calderon.
Honestly, I don't think we'll keep all four guards for all of this season. Two have ending contracts, one has a team option and the fourth is standing in the way of the FO's prize rookie having a starting spot. Again, I had hoped Thornton would come out the gate hot, be a 20 ppg scorer and up his trade value. But it may more likely that Jimmer or IT (or even Vasquez) gets paired with an ending contract (Salmons or Patterson) in a swap with a team looking to cut payroll.
We're pretty much on the same page. All I do is apply logic to the numbers. Without resigning any of, Jimmer, Thomas, )Patterson, or Vasquez, the Kings will owe $52,997,837.00 in salaries. I've read that the cap could go up to as much as 62 mil next year.. If so, that would leave the Kings with around 9 mil in capspace. All three of Thomas, Vasquez, and Patterson are eligible to be signed to an extension up until Oct 31st, a little over a week away. I would think that if the Kings are really serious about any of the three, they would do their best to negotiate something now in order to save money later in freeagency. If not, then that tells me they haven't made up their minds on any of them.
For instance, Utah just signed Favors to an extension at a more reasonable price then we signed Cousins with. And they did so now, so they didn't have to get into a biding war next offseason. Regardless of what the Kings do, they won't have a lot of capspace unless they find a way to shed more salary. Of course the other option would be to hang tight until the following offseason, when they'll have tons of capspace. With Hayes, Outlaw, Mbah a Moute, and Thornton all coming off the books. The problem is that I doubt the fans will be that patient.
For instance, Utah just signed Favors to an extension at a more reasonable price then we signed Cousins with. And they did so now, so they didn't have to get into a biding war next offseason. Regardless of what the Kings do, they won't have a lot of capspace unless they find a way to shed more salary. Of course the other option would be to hang tight until the following offseason, when they'll have tons of capspace. With Hayes, Outlaw, Mbah a Moute, and Thornton all coming off the books. The problem is that I doubt the fans will be that patient.
Very well said, but I would like to raise one more point to do with Jimmer "earning his way into the rotation". Sometimes it's really all about opportunity/luck, and sadly Jimmer really hasn't been given much opportunity. Jeremy Lin basically went from a nobody to "Linsanity" because he got the opportunity and his coach wasn't short with him. Jimmer on the other hand, has thrown in a few good games here and there, but never really given the chance to play consistent minutes. Though his statline is almost always worse than any of the other guards I very often walk away most satisfied with Jimmer's play because he almost always plays a team game. He does what he's been told to do - and at times I wish he would become a little more selfish just so we can see his "potential". Let's face it - the only reason we have the idea that MT is a proven scorer, that IT is talented, that Tyreke could be a star is because they play like ball-dominant stars. If they played a better team game we'd think they were starter-level role players, not borderline stars. In that sense, how often have we gotten to see Jimmer really just go trigger happy looking for his own shot? And out of those few times - how many times did he look terrible? The well-known mantra is that shooters have to just keep shooting even when their shot isn't falling, but how many times has Jimmer been left in a game when his shot wasn't falling?
To end a messy rant, I guess what I'm saying is that it's not all about simply being good enough to make the rotation. Every player in the league is good, so sometimes it boils down to being in the right situation at the right time. Jimmer has shown flashes of brilliance mixed in with a lot of flaws. But in his first 3 years he's also only played for the worst coach in NBA history. He's a guy who's biggest flaw coming in was his defense ... and then made to play (or sit on the bench) for the worst defensive team in the league. Not much chance for learning if you asked me. And now he finally gets a chance with a new coach, only to find himself behind 4 guards and possibly 5. It just annoys me and frustrates me that guys like John Salmons get regular 30 mpg year after year despite being useless on the floor, solely because year after year our FO doesn't get us a good SF. Meanwhile unproven guys like Jimmer who should be the ones you try to find some minutes for are buried deep in the bench because year after year our FO adds more guards. Well, life isn't fair is it?
To end a messy rant, I guess what I'm saying is that it's not all about simply being good enough to make the rotation. Every player in the league is good, so sometimes it boils down to being in the right situation at the right time. Jimmer has shown flashes of brilliance mixed in with a lot of flaws. But in his first 3 years he's also only played for the worst coach in NBA history. He's a guy who's biggest flaw coming in was his defense ... and then made to play (or sit on the bench) for the worst defensive team in the league. Not much chance for learning if you asked me. And now he finally gets a chance with a new coach, only to find himself behind 4 guards and possibly 5. It just annoys me and frustrates me that guys like John Salmons get regular 30 mpg year after year despite being useless on the floor, solely because year after year our FO doesn't get us a good SF. Meanwhile unproven guys like Jimmer who should be the ones you try to find some minutes for are buried deep in the bench because year after year our FO adds more guards. Well, life isn't fair is it?
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